Running & weight loss

SlowBigG
SlowBigG Posts: 10
in Fitness and Exercise
Hi all,

I've been a member for a while, but only today have I made a concerted effort to start tracking calories using the apps.

I'm a keen runner so I am not overweight as such and I eat relatively healthily, but to get quicker at my chosen race distances (10Ks, half marathons and marathons) I feel I need to lose a few pounds. However, particularly when training for a marathon I find that I am very hungry most of the time and I suspect that even when I am running say 40 miles per week I am consuming more calories than I am burning.

My issue is that I think I need to eat a lot of carbs for the longer runs and races because if I don't I struggle a fair bit. If I do longer than a 12 mile run, when I get home I usually feel very hungry and eat a large amount very quickly!

For info, I'm male, 6ft3 and currently 13 stone and I train 4 or 5 times per week (30-45 miles per week depending on what event I'm in training for). I know BMI has its issues, but for my height/weight I am in the top third of the "healthy" range so I feel I have room to reduce weight safely. I think I could lose say 7lbs and I wouldn't be "too skinny". People do notice that I have lost weight as this time last year I was over 14st and a few years ago I was the wrong side of 17st, but I'm definitely not too light.

If anyone has any advice on this it would be great to hear it. What I am worrying about is reducing the food intake and then not being able to go out and run properly due to energy issues.

TIA.

BigG

Replies

  • JenMc14
    JenMc14 Posts: 2,389 Member
    Do you do any strength training? I've read a few articles that talk about the benefits of certain strength exercises for runners.

    Could you do a cyclical system? Eat a little over maintenance on your longer run days, right around or just under on shorter run days and at a deficit on no training days?
  • davemunger
    davemunger Posts: 1,139 Member
    I'm pretty much in the same boat -- trying to lose weight to get faster. I've found the hardest days to keep my calorie intake low enough are off days, so I try to do easy runs / cross train / lift weights on those days. It does seem to help a bit.

    Also try salads, carrots, and other filling snacks that don't have a lot of calories.

    One other suggestion is to perform at a carb deficit for some medium-length runs: don't eat extra carbs the day before or consume any gels, etc during those runs. It will help you become accustomed to running when you don't have a full tank, and that should improve your performance in races, especially longer ones where you can't possibly consume enough gels to match your calories burned.
  • SlowBigG
    SlowBigG Posts: 10
    Hi Jen - thanks for your reply.

    I confess that I don't do enough strength exercises and that is another area I need to look at. I do quite a bit of stretching before/after each run and do some fairly limited core work about once or twice a week but I know I'm not doing enough in this area. I have a foam roller to help with particular issues (I have tight hamstrings) and have recently started seeing a sports physio about once every 6 weeks or so.

    Regarding the idea of doing a cyclical system that is something I can look into. My gut reaction is that I may struggle with it though. For example, this is my plan this week, which is fairly typical when not training for a marathon although the days may change week-on-week.
    Mon: 8 miles, with 5 miles at quicker than half marathon pace after work.
    Tues: 5 miles slow after work.
    Wednesday: A very tough tough hill or interval session with the club in the evening. This is usually 5 or 6 miles, with about 2 or 3 miles of efforts.
    Thursday: off
    Friday: 16 miles after work
    Saturday: a 5K parkrun, where I'll be gasping at the end!!
    Sunday: off.

    So for example, although Thursday is an day off I would tend to eat quite a lot of carbs that day (and Friday) to help prepare for the 16-miler.

    I take your point though. Also, maybe rather than thinking about my calories over the course of a day I should think about them over the course of a week?
  • SlowBigG
    SlowBigG Posts: 10
    Dave - thanks for the comments. Lots of "food for thought" there so to speak!
  • 55in13
    55in13 Posts: 1,091 Member
    I don't run as much as you, but have been using it to get in better shape and help burn calories because I was substantially overweight (still technically slightly over). I think you aren't used to dieting. Despite all the talk about how this timing or that food makes it easier, it is not easy and sometimes you put up with hunger when you know it is a "want" and not a true need. The last few pounds are the hardest.
  • SonicDeathMonkey80
    SonicDeathMonkey80 Posts: 4,489 Member
    First, if you're in the healthy BMI range, what is the purpose of losing 7lb? It sounds like a vanity thing, as you seem like a healthy guy (and that's the most important thing). I don't see a 7lb loss adding a significant speed change, but I could be wrong. I think it's a bad idea to be experimenting with things like a cyclical diet and depriving yourself while you're running/training at the volume/density you are. Once I got to about 10-13% BF, I weighed 152-153, and that's where I'm keeping it, unless I purposefully bulk up. I'm 5'10" and consume 2150 cals/day, and I eat back about 1/3 of my workout calories, and I've maintained my weight for 90+ days now.
  • lporter229
    lporter229 Posts: 4,907 Member

    One other suggestion is to perform at a carb deficit for some medium-length runs: don't eat extra carbs the day before or consume any gels, etc during those runs. It will help you become accustomed to running when you don't have a full tank, and that should improve your performance in races, especially longer ones where you can't possibly consume enough gels to match your calories burned.

    I think this advice is spot on. You are probably not as dependent on carbs as you think. I recently trained for and ran my first marathon and I lost a few pounds in the process. I try to eat as much protein as I can and I find that this helps me feel much fuller. i also think that logging your food and exercise is a great idea for anyone, not just those trying to lose weight. Your calories in vs. calories out ratio might surprise you!
  • SlowBigG
    SlowBigG Posts: 10
    Sonic - I am in the top third of the BMI range, but the range itself is quite large. There is some formula that for every 1lb of weight you carry you will be x-mins slower on a marathon or half marathon. Trust me when I say it's not vanity; it's because I want to get quicker at running....that is my goal. After all, you never see an elite runner with excess fat. Now, I know I am not an elite but you only have to see who comes in the top third of any race that has decent club runners and they are all leaner than me. For what it's worth I'm about 15 or 16% fat according to my scales, which may or may not be accurate. I have never done a "proper" fat test.

    lporter/55in13 - thanks for your comments. I think you're right that the calories in/out will be an eyeopener to me. I think this 7lbs will be the hardest. A few years ago I was the wrong side of 17st but getting to 14st was relatively easy. Then, about a year ago I decided to refocus and I got to 13st easily (vastly reducing the beer was the key - that enabled me to train harder as well as consume less calories) but losing more now is tricky so something needs to change.
  • JenMc14
    JenMc14 Posts: 2,389 Member
    I do think that looking at your calorie expenditure and intake over the course of a week rather than day to day could be really helpful for you. Obviously it's more complicated than this, but 3500 calories = 1 pound. That kind of deficit could be difficult for you, so I'd aim for a slow weight loss. Maybe start to try to adjust to eating less by aiming for a 500 calorie deficit a week, then as you adjust to that and see how it affects your runs, push it a little farther and go for 1000. Yes, your loss will be slow, but it might be best for you until you see how you feel and how your runs and recovery feel. And while adding strength training can make the scale go down slower because you're retaining muscle mass, I think a lot of your loss will come from muscle mass if you're doing little to know ST, and I don't know how that will affect your runs. Obviously, marathoners tend to be rather skinny folks who don't tend to have a ton of muscle mass, so maybe that's ok if being a fast marathoner is your goal. (I'm not really a serious runner or good at distance. I just finished my first 5K on Saturday!)
  • BrunetteRunner87
    BrunetteRunner87 Posts: 591 Member
    I'm in the same boat, although I haven't done a full marathon yet just halves. I feel so hungry all day long after I do a long run, even if I eat, I'm starving two hours later.
    I certainly don't want to gain weight, and feel it would help my knees if I lost about 10 lbs.
    Also I do remember seeing in article in Runners World not that long ago that talked about how losing weight can speed you up a bit, and they had a chart about how much weight would speed you up how much for what distances.
  • SonicDeathMonkey80
    SonicDeathMonkey80 Posts: 4,489 Member
    Sonic - I am in the top third of the BMI range, but the range itself is quite large. There is some formula that for every 1lb of weight you carry you will be x-mins slower on a marathon or half marathon. Trust me when I say it's not vanity; it's because I want to get quicker at running....that is my goal. After all, you never see an elite runner with excess fat. Now, I know I am not an elite but you only have to see who comes in the top third of any race that has decent club runners and they are all leaner than me. For what it's worth I'm about 15 or 16% fat according to my scales, which may or may not be accurate. I have never done a "proper" fat test.

    I remember being at the top of my BMI range and it still seemed a bit heavy to me, so I get that. Right now, I'm at the exact midpoint. I would just make sure you're not sacrificing your body composition while cutting fat. I find myself in a similar predicament of wanting to maintain what I have and not wanting to lose the composition.
  • samgolod
    samgolod Posts: 93 Member
    Hi there - I've run for a long time but I've lost quite a bit of weight over the last 6 months and it has definitely made me a lot faster (I've taken 14 minutes off my 10km PB) so loosing weight makes sense for a runner (obviously within reason). I've found that changing the quality of what I eat helps a lot - I make myself eat a snack when I come back from running and I make sure it's got a good amount of protein in it. I'm veggie so that means nuts, boiled egg, cottage cheese, peanut butter, prawns. You're doing longer distances than I am but you can work out what you're burning by using runkeeper app on your phone and then you'll be able to work out how many calories to eat a day. Then as long as you eat a 10 -20% deficit and have at least 15% protein you should start loosing weight. Good luck!
  • samgolod
    samgolod Posts: 93 Member
    PS: I don't know whether you guys are American or English but there was a really good article in last months English Runners World about running and weight loss. :)
  • bostonwolf
    bostonwolf Posts: 3,038 Member
    Do you do any strength training? I've read a few articles that talk about the benefits of certain strength exercises for runners.

    Could you do a cyclical system? Eat a little over maintenance on your longer run days, right around or just under on shorter run days and at a deficit on no training days?

    This has helped me immensely, and I lift pretty heavy and do a full body workout.

    I'm about 6'3 and 290 and have dropped 30 lbs, most of that while only running. My weight hasn't changed much lately but I'm pretty sure I'm adding muscle and dropping fat which is helping the running. Focus this month is to get down to about 280.
  • Doodlewhopper
    Doodlewhopper Posts: 1,018 Member
    I came in this morning after a hot and humid run and was dragging big time, until I found two big juicy slices of ice cold cantaloupe! I think I will start making this a post run thing!

    160.00 grams
    54.40 calories

    http://www.whfoods.org/genpage.php?tname=foodspice&dbid=17
  • bpotts44
    bpotts44 Posts: 1,066 Member
    I think you would benefit from trying to achieve metabolic efficiency which trains your muscles to burn fat in aerobic conditions instead of glucose. Google metabolic efficiency or the fitfatfast blog would be a good start. Changing your diet to incorporate low to moderate carbs, moderate protein, and majority of your energy from fat will stabilize your hormones reducing hunger and enabling you to lose weight. Also, metabolizing fats cuts several steps out of the krebs cycle and tends to make you more efficient in aerobic conditions. I shoot for the following:

    100 g + 200 cal per hour of exercise
    100 g protein
    Remainder of cals from fats with plenty of leafy greens.

    PM me for info.
  • RunnerElizabeth
    RunnerElizabeth Posts: 1,091 Member
    And what kind of carbs are you eating? Breads, pasta, rice are generally faster digesting so not as useful when you are actually running. When I was at my leanest and my long runs were the easiest, I was eating 4oz of some lean meat, a cup or 2 of steamed broccoli, 1 sweet potato, and a mixed green salad with a tiny bit of oil and vinegar for dinner the night before my long runs. No grains.

    But now I'm a vegetarian and can't seem to come up with the right mix of interesting and filling without adding rice, and my long runs are currently suffering for it.

    I've also added body weight strength training to my regimen but it's only been 3 weeks so I have no evidence that it is helping or hurting my running yet.

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