Calories Per Day : Fat vs Muscle
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dougstevens
Posts: 208 Member
Recently I have heard that Fat burns around 3 to 6 calories per day; while muscle burns around 30 to 50 calories per day.
Has anyone else heard of this? Are these numbers correct?
Is there a distinction of type of muscles (lean vs. bulk)?
Has anyone else heard of this? Are these numbers correct?
Is there a distinction of type of muscles (lean vs. bulk)?
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Replies
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Yeah, no, that's a myth that was around a few years ago. I haven't seen any good explanation of how it got started but it's pretty much not true - you'll burn a tiny bit more but it's on the order of a couple of calories per pound per day, not 50.
The truish part is that you will burn more calories when you're actively working that muscle, compared to someone of the same weight who has a higher BF%. So it's not like it's a bad thing to do, but you can't just go on a bulk and then wait for the fat to disappear on its own because your body has become a magical fat-burning furnace.0 -
yes. The actual numbers are debatable, but they are in the ballpark.
There is a big difference between lean and bulk. If you take 2 identical twins that weigh the same and have the same daily activities, but one has a %BF of 10% and the other is 20%, the one with the lower body fat will burn more calories because they have more muscle mass. That is why it is so important to lose weight slowly and get proper nutrition to try to conserve as much lean muscle as possible while on a caloric deficit.0 -
some BMR formulae (Katch McArdle for example) work purely with lean body mass - fat free mass (not actually muscle, most by far is water). So they apply a calorie burn per day per lb of Fat Free Mass with a formula along the lines BMR = 300 + 20 * FFM
Other formulae fit to data by applying a small factor to fat mass and a large one to fat free mass, suggesting some energy demand by adipose tissue.
The latter approach results in heavier people registering a higher BMR, the Katch-McArdle approach just looks at the thin person within and doesn't give any calories for extra fat.0 -
yes. The actual numbers are debatable, but they are in the ballpark.
There is a big difference between lean and bulk. If you take 2 identical twins that weigh the same and have the same daily activities, but one has a %BF of 10% and the other is 20%, the one with the lower body fat will burn more calories because they have more muscle mass. That is why it is so important to lose weight slowly and get proper nutrition to try to conserve as much lean muscle as possible while on a caloric deficit.
Totally agree with Gaucho. Try and keep as much of your muscle mass as possible, lose the fat. If you focus on losing your fat, you will lose "weight". (I hate the term lose weight). A calorie deficit of 300-500 kcal/day is a good starting point for losing fat safely without your body turning to stored amino acids in your muscle tissue for fuel. It takes a weekly deficit of 3500 kcal to burn 1 lb of fat. Although, if you have a higher % of body fat (say...20-30%) you can get away with a slightly larger weekly deficit without burning too much muscle tissue.0 -
some BMR formulae (Katch McArdle for example) work purely with lean body mass - fat free mass (not actually muscle, most by far is water). So they apply a calorie burn per day per lb of Fat Free Mass with a formula along the lines BMR = 300 + 20 * FFM
Other formulae fit to data by applying a small factor to fat mass and a large one to fat free mass, suggesting some energy demand by adipose tissue.
The latter approach results in heavier people registering a higher BMR, the Katch-McArdle approach just looks at the thin person within and doesn't give any calories for extra fat.
Isn't the increase in calories for overweight people (vs katch mcardle) primarily from the extra energy it takes to carry all that fat around? I mean, fat's primary function is energy storage, so it wouldn't make sense that storage would expend the same amount of maintenance energy as muscle.0 -
Recently I have heard that Fat burns around 3 to 6 calories per day; while muscle burns around 30 to 50 calories per day.
Has anyone else heard of this? Are these numbers correct?
Is there a distinction of type of muscles (lean vs. bulk)?
Um...there aren't multiple types of muscle, i.e. lean vs bulk. Muslce is lean. Period. What I suspect you are refering to as bulk is when people "bulk" to gain muscle but also add a lot of fat, as opposed to a "lean" bulk where people build muscle more slowly but do not add as much fat in the process. Either way, the muscle its self is still lean.0 -
Katch-McArdle adjusts for BF% - it gives about 10 calories per day for each pound of fat that you replace with muscle, at the sedentary level. That's why it's generally more accurate for people with either very high or low BF%. But again: 10 calories per day. If you start at 150 pounds and stay at that weight but go from 30 to 10% BF (which is huge; that would mean putting on THIRTY pounds of muscle, which would make pretty much any bodybuilder totally jealous) you get a whopping 300 extra calories to eat every day. Wooo!0
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Isn't the increase in calories for overweight people (vs katch mcardle) primarily from the extra energy it takes to carry all that fat around? I mean, fat's primary function is energy storage, so it wouldn't make sense that storage would expend the same amount of maintenance energy as muscle.
Katch-Mcardle BMR Formula:
BMR = 370 + (21.6 x Lean Body Mass(kg) )
extra fat does not increase the BMR. So you're right in that storage is assumed in this case to consume nothing.0 -
Recently I have heard that Fat burns around 3 to 6 calories per day; while muscle burns around 30 to 50 calories per day.
Has anyone else heard of this? Are these numbers correct?
Is there a distinction of type of muscles (lean vs. bulk)?
Um...there aren't multiple types of muscle, i.e. lean vs bulk. Muslce is lean. Period. What I suspect you are refering to as bulk is when people "bulk" to gain muscle but also add a lot of fat, as opposed to a "lean" bulk where people build muscle more slowly but do not add as much fat in the process. Either way, the muscle its self is still lean.
Actually, there are three types of muscles.
Cardiac: Which makes up the heart
Skeletal Muscle: The kind we see in body definition
Smooth Muscles: The type that is in our digestive system that moves food from mouth to *kitten*.
Skeletal Muscle can then be broken down into to further categories: fast twitch and slow twitch. These deal with the type of stress loads they are efficient at handling.
Ex. of people with a lot of slow twitch: Endurance athletes like top rated marathon runners.
Ex. of people with a lot of fast twitch: Speed athletes like olympic athletes.
Most people have a fair mix of the two.
But you are right, there isn't a "bulky muscle" or "lean muscle" category.0 -
Katch-McArdle adjusts for BF% - it gives about 10 calories per day for each pound of fat that you replace with muscle
It doesn't. It uses BF % and weight to find lean mass and gives that a per kg calorie burn, plus a constant. I've posted the equation and it can't do what you describe.
There are formulae like BMR = constant + a * fat mass + b * FFM where b is much bigger than a like you describe, but K-M sets a to zero and doesn't give fatties any credit. That's why it's handy for 200+ pound short women.0 -
Recently I have heard that Fat burns around 3 to 6 calories per day; while muscle burns around 30 to 50 calories per day.
Has anyone else heard of this? Are these numbers correct?
Is there a distinction of type of muscles (lean vs. bulk)?
Um...there aren't multiple types of muscle, i.e. lean vs bulk. Muslce is lean. Period. What I suspect you are refering to as bulk is when people "bulk" to gain muscle but also add a lot of fat, as opposed to a "lean" bulk where people build muscle more slowly but do not add as much fat in the process. Either way, the muscle its self is still lean.
Actually, there are three types of muscles.
Cardiac: Which makes up the heart
Skeletal Muscle: The kind we see in body definition
Smooth Muscles: The type that is in our digestive system that moves food from mouth to *kitten*.
Skeletal Muscle can then be broken down into to further categories: fast twitch and slow twitch. These deal with the type of stress loads they are efficient at handling.
Ex. of people with a lot of slow twitch: Endurance athletes like top rated marathon runners.
Ex. of people with a lot of fast twitch: Speed athletes like olympic athletes.
Most people have a fair mix of the two.
But you are right, there isn't a "bulky muscle" or "lean muscle" category.
That is why I put in the disclaimer "i.e. lean vs bulk." I meant there aren't different types in the since that the op was referring :flowerforyou:0 -
Katch-McArdle adjusts for BF% - it gives about 10 calories per day for each pound of fat that you replace with muscle
It doesn't. It uses BF % and weight to find lean mass and gives that a per kg calorie burn, plus a constant. I've posted the equation and it can't do what you describe.
There are formulae like BMR = constant + a * fat mass + b * FFM where b is much bigger than a like you describe, but K-M sets a to zero and doesn't give fatties any credit. That's why it's handy for 200+ pound short women.
Um, yeah, that's exactly what it does. You posted the formula yourself: BMR = 370 + (21.6 x Lean Body Mass(kg) )
Start at 150 lbs, 30% BF = you have 105 lbs of lean mass.
Go to 150 lbs, 10% BF - you now have 135 lbs of lean mass, having replaced 30 pounds of fat with muscle (obviously you are a powerful wizard in this scenario).
K-McM gives you about 10 calories for each of those pounds. (21.6 calories/kg = 9.8 calories/lb)0 -
bump0
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Recently I have heard that Fat burns around 3 to 6 calories per day; while muscle burns around 30 to 50 calories per day.
Has anyone else heard of this? Are these numbers correct?
Is there a distinction of type of muscles (lean vs. bulk)?
Um...there aren't multiple types of muscle, i.e. lean vs bulk. Muslce is lean. Period. What I suspect you are refering to as bulk is when people "bulk" to gain muscle but also add a lot of fat, as opposed to a "lean" bulk where people build muscle more slowly but do not add as much fat in the process. Either way, the muscle its self is still lean.
Actually, there are three types of muscles.
Cardiac: Which makes up the heart
Skeletal Muscle: The kind we see in body definition
Smooth Muscles: The type that is in our digestive system that moves food from mouth to *kitten*.
Skeletal Muscle can then be broken down into to further categories: fast twitch and slow twitch. These deal with the type of stress loads they are efficient at handling.
Ex. of people with a lot of slow twitch: Endurance athletes like top rated marathon runners.
Ex. of people with a lot of fast twitch: Speed athletes like olympic athletes.
Most people have a fair mix of the two.
But you are right, there isn't a "bulky muscle" or "lean muscle" category.
That is why I put in the disclaimer "i.e. lean vs bulk." I meant there aren't different types in the since that the op was referring :flowerforyou:
I agree, I was being overly nit picky. I like to do info overload sometimes.
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K-McM gives you about 10 calories for each of those pounds
ah, I see how your mind works now.
To my mind K-M gives you calories for fat free mass, and a constant for the brain etc. It is blind to fat.
Example - 150 lbs 30% fat = 105 lbs FFM -> 1050 + 370 BMR = 1420 (approx - 10 cals/lb)
get fatter, same 105 lbs FFM , 180 lbs total, 41.7% fat, same BMR = 14200 -
Muscles burn 70 calories per day.0
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Is there a distinction of type of muscles (lean vs. bulk)?
The what now?!0
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