Oh crap! I think im becoming a Vegan!!

I have been cutting down and almost out most meats... and I do feel better....I agree with what was said above... we don't have to "be" anything... but if it makes us feel better...that is wonderful.

Less meat seems to be working for me....so that's my direction!! :happy:

Pamela June

well whey is at like 11 for leucine

And how much leucine do you need for muscle protein synthesis?

No-one is saying that dairy or meat does not give a better profile - just that you can get enough EAAs through a vegan diet.

well whey is at like 11 for leucine

And how much leucine do you need for muscle protein synthesis?

No-one is saying that dairy or meat does not give a better profile - just that you can get enough EAAs through a vegan diet.

They are talking more about optimal with leucine bolus now for muscle retention. It is still being studied and has yet to be confirmed on human subjects

I never thought I would, but within the last few weeks I started cutting way down on my meat / fish / poultry. I got to the point of going 3 - 4 days. Now I have started cutting out dairy this week, and actually I feel better than I have in quite a while!

My BP usually runs around 140/95 most of the time even with the meds I take, today I checked it - 111/65! I don't think I have ever seen my numbers that low, and of course I am losing weight too so cool.

So maybe I should really take up the Vegan thing?? Any thoughts?

I think you mean vegetarian.

vegetarian is the diet. vegan is the lifestyle (ie no leather, cosmetics, etc ... )

I've been a vegetarian for 42 years and a vegan for 2. "Protein" is a blanket term that is usually overused and misunderstood. What every vegetarian needs to understand are Amino Acids. You must know which foods, and which combinations of foods, have complete amino acid profiles. Vegetarians need to focus not so much on the quantity of the protein, but the quality of it, which is why a vegetarian diet should be extremely varied with a rotation of amino-acid rich foods.

But is the quality of protein in beans etc. equal to animal product protein? Is it as absorbable?

I'm asking only out of curiosity since I have given up on eating red meat since last year and I'm not a fan of fish either.

You need to make sure that you get your proteins from a variety of sources to ensure a complete amino acid profile, but if you do, it is fine.

Some vegan complete proteins are nutritional yeast and hemp seeds.

^Exactly! And, it's not necessary that you combined all those in one meal. The combination can be done over the course of the day through all your meals.

well its not even just protein or the complete amino profile. How much of the EAAs are in there? There really aren't that much.

There actually are in some - specially if you combine correctly. However, it is harder to do, especially when on a calorie restriction.

If you look at many, they are only 'lacking' in one of the EAAs to make them complete.

but how much?
its like saying there is fat in X. it only has .5g of fat

I am not going to go through every single plant based protein source. However, lets take one example.

Soybeans. They would be complete except for Methionine and Cycteine.

You need 42mg/kg/day of leucine per the RDA (which I admit probably understates optimal requirement, but for the sake of math I am going with it). So for a 150lb person, that would be 2,863mg.

Soybeans have 0.57g in 1 cup (97g). So you would need 5 cups = 487g = 395 calories. Not bad, even if you double it to account for the RDA being too low.


I am using soybeans as an example - there are many plant based sources that have more.


To make up for the methionine and cycteine, you can have oats and broccoli in your diet.

But is the quality of protein in beans etc. equal to animal product protein? Is it as absorbable?

I'm asking only out of curiosity since I have given up on eating red meat since last year and I'm not a fan of fish either.

You need to make sure that you get your proteins from a variety of sources to ensure a complete amino acid profile, but if you do, it is fine.

Some vegan complete proteins are nutritional yeast and hemp seeds.

^Exactly! And, it's not necessary that you combined all those in one meal. The combination can be done over the course of the day through all your meals.

well its not even just protein or the complete amino profile. How much of the EAAs are in there? There really aren't that much.

There actually are in some - specially if you combine correctly. However, it is harder to do, especially when on a calorie restriction.

If you look at many, they are only 'lacking' in one of the EAAs to make them complete.

but how much?
its like saying there is fat in X. it only has .5g of fat

I am not going to go through every single plant based protein source. However, lets take one example.

Soybeans. They would be complete except for Methionine and Cycteine.

You need 42mg/kg/day of leucine per the RDA (which I admit probably understates optimal requirement, but for the sake of math I am going with it). So for a 150lb person, that would be 2,863mg.

Soybeans have 0.57g in 1 cup (97g). So you would need 5 cups = 487g = 395 calories. Not bad, even if you double it to account for the RDA being too low.


I am using soybeans as an example - there are many plant based sources that have more.


To make up for the methionine and cycteine, you can have oats and broccoli in your diet.

Yea you are right. I keep forgetting this is not a bodybuilding forum tbh.

Sorry, you lost me on that one


ETA: to be clear, while I am a vegetarian, I do not advocate being a vegan or vegetarian for health or body composition reasons. Animal based proteins *are* better from the perspective of amino acid profiles and 'protein bang for your calorie buck'.

But is the quality of protein in beans etc. equal to animal product protein? Is it as absorbable?

I'm asking only out of curiosity since I have given up on eating red meat since last year and I'm not a fan of fish either.

You need to make sure that you get your proteins from a variety of sources to ensure a complete amino acid profile, but if you do, it is fine.

Some vegan complete proteins are nutritional yeast and hemp seeds.

^Exactly! And, it's not necessary that you combined all those in one meal. The combination can be done over the course of the day through all your meals.

well its not even just protein or the complete amino profile. How much of the EAAs are in there? There really aren't that much.

There actually are in some - specially if you combine correctly. However, it is harder to do, especially when on a calorie restriction.

If you look at many, they are only 'lacking' in one of the EAAs to make them complete.

but how much?
its like saying there is fat in X. it only has .5g of fat

I am not going to go through every single plant based protein source. However, lets take one example.

Soybeans. They would be complete except for Methionine and Cycteine.

You need 42mg/kg/day of leucine per the RDA (which I admit probably understates optimal requirement, but for the sake of math I am going with it). So for a 150lb person, that would be 2,863mg.

Soybeans have 0.57g in 1 cup (97g). So you would need 5 cups = 487g = 395 calories. Not bad, even if you double it to account for the RDA being too low.


I am using soybeans as an example - there are many plant based sources that have more.


To make up for the methionine and cycteine, you can have oats and broccoli in your diet.

Yea you are right. I keep forgetting this is not a bodybuilding forum tbh.

Sorry, you lost me on that one

I think I accidentally deleted the rest of it.

Leucine wouldn't be as big of a factor for the average person on a forum such as this. On a bodybuilding forum they focus more on the amino acid complex to optimize muscle building and retention of higher than average muscle.

Layne talks about maximization of MPS with leucine and I know it is still controversial.
he talked about 3g per meal which is not needed for the average person.

Since this isn't a full out bodybuilding forum it isn't necessary for the normal person to focus on such a thing.
http://agro-food-industry.teknoscienze.com/pdf/norton_AF2_09.PDF

I never thought I would, but within the last few weeks I started cutting way down on my meat / fish / poultry. I got to the point of going 3 - 4 days. Now I have started cutting out dairy this week, and actually I feel better than I have in quite a while!

My BP usually runs around 140/95 most of the time even with the meds I take, today I checked it - 111/65! I don't think I have ever seen my numbers that low, and of course I am losing weight too so cool.

So maybe I should really take up the Vegan thing?? Any thoughts?

I think you mean vegetarian.

vegetarian is the diet. vegan is the lifestyle (ie no leather, cosmetics, etc ... )

No. Vegetarian means no meat (seafood & poultry included guys) vegan means no dairy OR meat. SOME vegans go beyond that and do NO animal products at all (honey, leather etc).

Yeah that's why I stopped at vegetarian and didn't go full vegan. I already knew I was gonna miss grandma's leather sandwiches on picnic's and school field trips.

Oh crap is right. 500cc's of ribeye, stat.