Is calorie counting worthless? Whats ur 2 cents?
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karissastephens
Posts: 324 Member
I am reading a book about the metabolism by Men's Health and John Berardi (PhD CSCS). There are a few things I'm sketch about that he writes. Let me know what you think and know from experience!
This section he talks about reasons calorie counting is worthless.
1) "For starters, counting calories doesn't differentiate between cottage cheese and Cheez whiz.... Fat free milk or milk duds. If you're burning 3,000 calories a day and eating 2,500 calories a day, they say you'd end up with the same lean body regardless of what you eat....which is false."
2) "This spproach ignores the fact that different foods act differently in your body, digesting at different rates, therefore causing more calorie burn while digesting than other foods......"
3) "When you eat LESS your metabolism slows, and then you have to eat even less. Keep restricting calories, and you end up chasing your tail all the way to a super slow metabolic rate....."
How RESTRICTING calories SLOWS your metabolism.
" Restricting calories slows your metabolic flow causing your to burn less and less calories naturally. BUT by putting more energy into the metabolic flow (by eating MORE) and take more energy out of the metabolic flow (by exercising MORE), you increase the metabolic flow........ A study published in 2004 took 10 men who ate and burned about 2300 calories a day. They were then made to restrict calories to 1800. Consequently, their metabolic rates dropped......eating too few calories can slow your metabolism while less exercise can as well, both restrictions lead to slowing of the metabolic rate."
Rule about Eating every 2-3 hours
"Eating every 2-3 hours feeds muscle and starves fat. By eating frequently you reassure your body that food is always going to be available. Your body has been encoded to fear famine and starvation from your ancestors. It's your body's natural instinct to starve muscle and feed fat when food intake is low, infrequent, or sporadic (skipping meals). As a result, your body starts breaking down muscle and begins to store lots of fat just in case your next dinner never comes...
If you send your body the right signals, however, by eating every 2-3 hours, your metabolism will become more intact. Your body will grow progressively more comfortable feeding the muscle and starving fat......"
This section he talks about reasons calorie counting is worthless.
1) "For starters, counting calories doesn't differentiate between cottage cheese and Cheez whiz.... Fat free milk or milk duds. If you're burning 3,000 calories a day and eating 2,500 calories a day, they say you'd end up with the same lean body regardless of what you eat....which is false."
2) "This spproach ignores the fact that different foods act differently in your body, digesting at different rates, therefore causing more calorie burn while digesting than other foods......"
3) "When you eat LESS your metabolism slows, and then you have to eat even less. Keep restricting calories, and you end up chasing your tail all the way to a super slow metabolic rate....."
How RESTRICTING calories SLOWS your metabolism.
" Restricting calories slows your metabolic flow causing your to burn less and less calories naturally. BUT by putting more energy into the metabolic flow (by eating MORE) and take more energy out of the metabolic flow (by exercising MORE), you increase the metabolic flow........ A study published in 2004 took 10 men who ate and burned about 2300 calories a day. They were then made to restrict calories to 1800. Consequently, their metabolic rates dropped......eating too few calories can slow your metabolism while less exercise can as well, both restrictions lead to slowing of the metabolic rate."
Rule about Eating every 2-3 hours
"Eating every 2-3 hours feeds muscle and starves fat. By eating frequently you reassure your body that food is always going to be available. Your body has been encoded to fear famine and starvation from your ancestors. It's your body's natural instinct to starve muscle and feed fat when food intake is low, infrequent, or sporadic (skipping meals). As a result, your body starts breaking down muscle and begins to store lots of fat just in case your next dinner never comes...
If you send your body the right signals, however, by eating every 2-3 hours, your metabolism will become more intact. Your body will grow progressively more comfortable feeding the muscle and starving fat......"
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Replies
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Look at my ticker, I wouldnt call it worthless.. what he doenst specify is people who are counting calories will typically watch what they eat0
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I would say not all calories are ceated equal. I think calories counting is a great tool and great to teach people to be aware what they are putting into there body. I would say do more research on the subject. I bet you will find more things that state it is a good thing to do. I do believe that you do have to feed the muscle to help burn the fat0
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I am reading a book about the metabolism by Men's Health and John Berardi (PhD CSCS). There are a few things I'm sketch about that he writes. Let me know what you think and know from experience!
This section he talks about reasons calorie counting is worthless.
1) "For starters, counting calories doesn't differentiate between cottage cheese and Cheez whiz.... Fat free milk or milk duds. If you're burning 3,000 calories a day and eating 2,500 calories a day, they say you'd end up with the same lean body regardless of what you eat....which is false."
2) "This spproach ignores the fact that different foods act differently in your body, digesting at different rates, therefore causing more calorie burn while digesting than other foods......"
3) "When you eat LESS your metabolism slows, and then you have to eat even less. Keep restricting calories, and you end up chasing your tail all the way to a super slow metabolic rate....."
I agree that these are issues with calorie counting only, but MFP promotes not just calorie counting but eating healthy as suggested by many on these boards. With 3) MFP will not allow your intake to go below 1200, unless you use custom, so this site also helps with that.0 -
I think the book is making some inaccurate assumptions about calorie counting - primarily that people who count calories will eat anything they want as long as it fits into the calorie count. Yes, we're counting calories, but the most successful people eat nutritious, healthy foods. If you eat 1200 calories a day of crap, you won't be getting the adequate vitamins/nutrition you really need, and your body will suffer in the long run.
Regarding the 2nd part, I agree that ideally people should be exercising regularly - it's the healthiest long-term approach, but you CAN lose weight just by controlling your eating. It's a calories-in/calories-out equation. Many of us ate so much more than we needed to before, that just controlling our eating is a HUGE part of starting to control our weight. If you exercise and burn more, you can eat more and still lose weight, but if you're not exercising it just means you have to be careful about how much you eat.0 -
I agree that most people counting calories tend to watch what they eat, if for no other reason than I'd rather have a large heap of vegetables than a candy bar, as the veggies will be more filling for the same amount of calories.
I would also like to add that a lot of people who lose weight by counting calories (like me! :bigsmile: ) are typically overweight because we previously ate TOO MUCH and weren't aware of just HOW MUCH until we started counting.
To address two other points, most people who count calories exercise - if for no other reason than to be able to eat more! :laugh: And that counting calories has nothing to do with your food schedule. In fact, I know that a lot of people on here DO eat every few hours instead of 3 large meals. Personally, I plan for 3 meals and 2 snacks in between.
So counting calories alone might not help in weight loss, but the behaviors that tend to develop from counting calories DEFINITELY help!0 -
Here is an article he wrote on the subject. He had to count calories for his research but is arguing more against calorie restriction than calorie counting:
http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/nutrition/new_view.htm
I know all calories aren't equal but unsure about the eating more stuff, though it does help with and explain plateaus. Worth even though it sounds sketch...0 -
I enjoy reading Sean's blog. His starting weight was 505 and he lost it by eating 1500 calories a day and slowly, very slowly adding exercise. He ate fast food, and chips and cake. But as he progressed he gradualy started making better choices because it would allow him more for his allowance. It's a fun read:
http://losingweighteveryday.blogspot.com/2008/10/day-1-calorie-wars.html
I agree that with the quotes when it talks about starvation modes. I think 1200 a day is low. I would rather exercise and eat more. You get more nutrition that way too as it is very difficult to get your vitamons & iron levels up on 1200 per day. I think we focus too much on fast results. They are tempting to me too. But healthy and consistant is better.0 -
I agree that most people counting calories tend to watch what they eat, if for no other reason than I'd rather have a large heap of vegetables than a candy bar, as the veggies will be more filling for the same amount of calories.
I would also like to add that a lot of people who lose weight by counting calories (like me! :bigsmile: ) are typically overweight because we previously ate TOO MUCH and weren't aware of just HOW MUCH until we started counting.
To address two other points, most people who count calories exercise - if for no other reason than to be able to eat more! :laugh: And that counting calories has nothing to do with your food schedule. In fact, I know that a lot of people on here DO eat every few hours instead of 3 large meals. Personally, I plan for 3 meals and 2 snacks in between.
So counting calories alone might not help in weight loss, but the behaviors that tend to develop from counting calories DEFINITELY help!
Pretty much this...the last sentence is the key to me.
I plan for 3 meals a day, but will snack if I'm hungry, which is usually but not always. I just try to eat healthier snacks.0 -
The books I've read also promote 3 - 5 small meals daily. But I think it really depends on what those meals consist of. If I only have 300 calories left for the day and I'm still hungry, I'm going to choose carrot sticks or grapes over cheese puffs every time, simply because I can eat more of them by volume. I think calorie counting works, but like everything else you have to make it work for you.0
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I agree that most people counting calories tend to watch what they eat, if for no other reason than I'd rather have a large heap of vegetables than a candy bar, as the veggies will be more filling for the same amount of calories.
I would also like to add that a lot of people who lose weight by counting calories (like me! :bigsmile: ) are typically overweight because we previously ate TOO MUCH and weren't aware of just HOW MUCH until we started counting.
To address two other points, most people who count calories exercise - if for no other reason than to be able to eat more! :laugh: And that counting calories has nothing to do with your food schedule. In fact, I know that a lot of people on here DO eat every few hours instead of 3 large meals. Personally, I plan for 3 meals and 2 snacks in between.
So counting calories alone might not help in weight loss, but the behaviors that tend to develop from counting calories DEFINITELY help!
Very well said.0 -
I think you need to count calories to learn how many calories you are really consuming and it also calculates fat etc. We need to learn what is right and all calories are NOT created equal, some contain more fat or more protein. Counting calories clearly helps all of us as well.
I almost would like to read this and write to them...0 -
I am reading a book about the metabolism by Men's Health and John Berardi (PhD CSCS). There are a few things I'm sketch about that he writes. Let me know what you think and know from experience!
This section he talks about reasons calorie counting is worthless.
1) "For starters, counting calories doesn't differentiate between cottage cheese and Cheez whiz.... Fat free milk or milk duds. If you're burning 3,000 calories a day and eating 2,500 calories a day, they say you'd end up with the same lean body regardless of what you eat....which is false."
2) "This spproach ignores the fact that different foods act differently in your body, digesting at different rates, therefore causing more calorie burn while digesting than other foods......"
3) "When you eat LESS your metabolism slows, and then you have to eat even less. Keep restricting calories, and you end up chasing your tail all the way to a super slow metabolic rate....."
How RESTRICTING calories SLOWS your metabolism.
" Restricting calories slows your metabolic flow causing your to burn less and less calories naturally. BUT by putting more energy into the metabolic flow (by eating MORE) and take more energy out of the metabolic flow (by exercising MORE), you increase the metabolic flow........ A study published in 2004 took 10 men who ate and burned about 2300 calories a day. They were then made to restrict calories to 1800. Consequently, their metabolic rates dropped......eating too few calories can slow your metabolism while less exercise can as well, both restrictions lead to slowing of the metabolic rate."
Rule about Eating every 2-3 hours
"Eating every 2-3 hours feeds muscle and starves fat. By eating frequently you reassure your body that food is always going to be available. Your body has been encoded to fear famine and starvation from your ancestors. It's your body's natural instinct to starve muscle and feed fat when food intake is low, infrequent, or sporadic (skipping meals). As a result, your body starts breaking down muscle and begins to store lots of fat just in case your next dinner never comes...
If you send your body the right signals, however, by eating every 2-3 hours, your metabolism will become more intact. Your body will grow progressively more comfortable feeding the muscle and starving fat......"
Oh I am MOST DEFINATELY in favor of calorie counting! :laugh: hehe
I too believe it helps us really notice how much we stuff into our mouths. The things he talks about here, however, are having partially FULL meals consisting of 4oz of protein and veggies/fruit every 2-3 hours...not just snacks. My questions are..
1) If we do not eat every 2-3 hours will out bodies really think we're starving?? or is that if we make skipping meals and eating small amounts a habit?
2) I know MFP sets the lowest calorie limit to 1200, but the study with the ten men set their calorie limit to 1800 and their metabolisms STILL slowed quite a bit since they were used to eating 2300 calories a day. So, in that case, since I am not too overweight but am trying to get to my goal, is my calorie limit TOO low since I have a deficit and exercise hard daily? I do not want to slow my metabolism at such an early stage.....
3) ALSO, I know a lot of friends who eat very few times a day and are in GREAT shape because of it. Are they risking having a slow metabolism later on in life?
This whole metabolism stuff is definately confusing! haha :ohwell:0 -
I'm sure many of you have experienced this, but I definitely slowed my metabolism.
I used to be a 3000 calorie-a-day guy, with maybe 500 calorie burn in exercise. When I switch (thanks MFP!) to around 2000 in and 500 out, I immediately dropped 20 pounds - averaging between 2 and 3 a week.
However, with only 10 pounds left to go, I'm lucky to pare off a half pound a week. My diet hasn't changed, my exercise has increased a little, but my net results have decreased significantly. My only explanation is that my body has adjusted and is finding ways to keep the weight on. Maybe it's a response to having less fat stores, or maybe it's adjusting to the fewer calories - no idea, really.
I've found a few ideas for shaking up the routine in hopes to get back on track. I'm eating more and more often, same with the exercise, plus I'm drinking alot more water and green tea. My net calories are still 1500 a day, so we'll see if the progress picks up again.0 -
I would say that everyone knows that what you eat and how much you eat are basically equally important. For me the calorie counting makes me very aware of how much I have eaten. I do believe that is a very important factor.
As for the metabolism, read some more, something else anything else, as you can keep your metabolism up even on a lower calorie (1,200) diet. It is as important to eat several times a day as it is to watch what you eat. by making sure you eat breakfast, morning snack, lunch, pm snack, dinner, and maybe even an evening snack, you keep your metabolism going. if you don't eat at all until noon time, your metabolism will begin to slow down because there is no fuel for the fire. Several weight loss experts have indicated that it is better to eat several times a day to keep your metabolism up.
Unless you are MIchael Phelps and can burn 10,000 calories in the pool!! then by all means go for it, but keep burning the 10,000!!0 -
If you weigh 250 lbs, you can take in roughly 2,500 calories a day and maintain that weight. This is a guess on my part, but if you started at 250 lbs, ate 2000 calories per day and exercised for 500 more you would burn roughly 7,000 calories a week, which is just shy of what it takes to burn off two lbs a week, which is 7,200 calories (3,600 calories per pound). Accordingly, if you lost 20 pounds, you now weigh 230 pounds, and to run the same deficit, you should only consume 1,800 calories to keep your weight loss at the same rate. As you lose weight, you need to adjust your caloric intake to keep losing. once you get to the desired weight, then you would eat calories to maintain, again, that would be roughly 10 X your body weight. It was and is the formula I have been using, and it worked well for me even before I found this web site. This web site makes it easy to count the calories.0
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I agree that if you cut your cals down too much you can slow metabolism. I'm doing the UK slimfast 321 plan. But I was estimating my calories rather than counting them properly and as I tend to round everything I was eating about 200 clas less than the recommended 1200 a day I should have. And as a result I hit a plateau, I lost nothing for 3 weeks. Then, 12 days ago I found MFP, I started eating the 1430 cals that it recommended for me (including the meal replacement skakes from slimfast) and I've lost more than 3lbs in that time!0
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Total hype. People who count calories know that you need a healthy balanced diet and adjust accordingly. If somone goes through the effort of counting calories then this is a pointless statement to make you think he knows something the calorie counting folks don't.I
1) "For starters, counting calories doesn't differentiate between cottage cheese and Cheez whiz.... Fat free milk or milk duds. If you're burning 3,000 calories a day and eating 2,500 calories a day, they say you'd end up with the same lean body regardless of what you eat....which is false."
Extreme exaggeration. Yes your body does burn slightly different amount of calories depending on the food but it is not significant enough to make a difference in your overall weight loss such that a diet higher in X and lower in Y will result in a larger weight loss when calories are the same.2) "This spproach ignores the fact that different foods act differently in your body, digesting at different rates, therefore causing more calorie burn while digesting than other foods......"
Exaggeration to the point of being false. If this were true no one would ever starve to death if they had access to any food at all, even if only once a week. Your body does not slow metabolism of any signficance except in extreme cases and you will be underweight by the time it happens. Also it does not slow down enough to compensate so you will still keep losing weight. People's metabolism slows down because they lost weight and no longer need as many calories per day to support 175lbs as the did when they were 200lbs.3) "When you eat LESS your metabolism slows, and then you have to eat even less. Keep restricting calories, and you end up chasing your tail all the way to a super slow metabolic rate....."
I cannot find the original study anywhere but from some other articles about it, they took 10 men who were energy balanced at 2300 calorie because of exercise. They then reduced their food calories AND reduced calories from excercise so they were still in balance at 1800 per day. Result: They remained in balance. Well no kidding and calorie counting predicted that result. If you exercise more you need more food. If you exercise less you need less food. Wow, what a revalation.
How RESTRICTING calories SLOWS your metabolism.
" Restricting calories slows your metabolic flow causing your to burn less and less calories naturally. BUT by putting more energy into the metabolic flow (by eating MORE) and take more energy out of the metabolic flow (by exercising MORE), you increase the metabolic flow........ A study published in 2004 took 10 men who ate and burned about 2300 calories a day. They were then made to restrict calories to 1800. Consequently, their metabolic rates dropped......eating too few calories can slow your metabolism while less exercise can as well, both restrictions lead to slowing of the metabolic rate."
Total hype.
Rule about Eating every 2-3 hours
"Eating every 2-3 hours feeds muscle and starves fat. By eating frequently you reassure your body that food is always going to be available. Your body has been encoded to fear famine and starvation from your ancestors. It's your body's natural instinct to starve muscle and feed fat when food intake is low, infrequent, or sporadic (skipping meals). As a result, your body starts breaking down muscle and begins to store lots of fat just in case your next dinner never comes...
If you send your body the right signals, however, by eating every 2-3 hours, your metabolism will become more intact. Your body will grow progressively more comfortable feeding the muscle and starving fat......"
You will achieve at least 95% of your weight loss by counting calories versus some tweaks of macro nutrients, exercise timing, and all the other "super secret to weight loss the government doesn't want you to know" combined. Author's of diet books are trying to convince you they know something special but instead either try to confuse the issue or take something that is technically true but only impacts weight loss by <1% and hype it as if it were 100% responsible for all weight loss or lack thereof.0 -
Take a look at my ticker as well..not worthless to me. Infact, thanks to calorie counting, I have more control over what I put into my body and portion it correctly. I am more aware of my sodium intake as well.0
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I haven't read all the posts but just from the title I can say no I don't think it is worthless. It helped me lose 30lbs after I had my first child and since august 1st has helped me to lose almost 6lbs!
Maybe it isn't right for everyone but I love it!!0 -
I agree that most people counting calories tend to watch what they eat, if for no other reason than I'd rather have a large heap of vegetables than a candy bar, as the veggies will be more filling for the same amount of calories.
I would also like to add that a lot of people who lose weight by counting calories (like me! :bigsmile: ) are typically overweight because we previously ate TOO MUCH and weren't aware of just HOW MUCH until we started counting.
To address two other points, most people who count calories exercise - if for no other reason than to be able to eat more! :laugh: And that counting calories has nothing to do with your food schedule. In fact, I know that a lot of people on here DO eat every few hours instead of 3 large meals. Personally, I plan for 3 meals and 2 snacks in between.
So counting calories alone might not help in weight loss, but the behaviors that tend to develop from counting calories DEFINITELY help!
This is the best response I have seen on this topic. Well thought out and hit the nail on the head.0
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