OK, you guys & gals tell me why this is bad
NashvilleScott
Posts: 34
I see people getting ripped on here for eating too little and lots of people say when you do that you will actually gain weight.
Well, I have a question for you. Im not being a smartass either, I seriously want to know.
MFP tells me to eat 1550 calories per day, down from 1900 when I started. I started Jan14 2013 and weighed 300 pounds. I currently weigh 234, so as you can see I have lost 64 pounds.
I would say on average I eat about 1300 calories per day. There may be some days when I eat 2200 and others where I eat 800. I eat when I am hungry but I always avoid my past destruction foods (chips, pizza, fried chicken, french fries). I do not eat "healthy" but I stopped eating the really bad foods. I do take a daily multivitamin along with calcium and Vitamin D.
I walk at a minimum of 5 miles each day and sometimes depending on my time, I walk as many as 10. In the past month I have added an exercise bike routine and have been going about 14 miles each day on that. So all together I burn on average each day via exercise around 1000 calories. Some days less and some days more.
So basically I am near a net zero after exercise at the end of each day. Some days I am negative quite a bit, some days I am not, but on average Im near zero. I have been doing this now for 5+ months, lost 66 pounds, I feel great, my clothes fit, I do not get tired nearly as easily and everything seems to be going great. However, from all the posts I read on here I am doing it totally wrong and unhealthy.
So I want to know in your opinion, how dangerous (if at all) is it the way I am doing it? I do not want to quit doing it the way I am doing it because my results have been fantastic. So I am just curious to those smarter than me, what do you suggest I do?
Thanks!!
Well, I have a question for you. Im not being a smartass either, I seriously want to know.
MFP tells me to eat 1550 calories per day, down from 1900 when I started. I started Jan14 2013 and weighed 300 pounds. I currently weigh 234, so as you can see I have lost 64 pounds.
I would say on average I eat about 1300 calories per day. There may be some days when I eat 2200 and others where I eat 800. I eat when I am hungry but I always avoid my past destruction foods (chips, pizza, fried chicken, french fries). I do not eat "healthy" but I stopped eating the really bad foods. I do take a daily multivitamin along with calcium and Vitamin D.
I walk at a minimum of 5 miles each day and sometimes depending on my time, I walk as many as 10. In the past month I have added an exercise bike routine and have been going about 14 miles each day on that. So all together I burn on average each day via exercise around 1000 calories. Some days less and some days more.
So basically I am near a net zero after exercise at the end of each day. Some days I am negative quite a bit, some days I am not, but on average Im near zero. I have been doing this now for 5+ months, lost 66 pounds, I feel great, my clothes fit, I do not get tired nearly as easily and everything seems to be going great. However, from all the posts I read on here I am doing it totally wrong and unhealthy.
So I want to know in your opinion, how dangerous (if at all) is it the way I am doing it? I do not want to quit doing it the way I am doing it because my results have been fantastic. So I am just curious to those smarter than me, what do you suggest I do?
Thanks!!
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Replies
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you sound very similar to Biggest Loser contestants - eat enough food for adequate nutrition and have a high level of exercise to create a big deficit. Works for them with professional supervision and participation.
Don't worry about those suckled and weaned on MFP group think, reputable organisations have no concept of "net calories" or "eat your BMR" and indeed "1200 calories" isn't a thing in many places.
The main concern to watch is that you reduce the calorie deficit as you get closer to goal weight as the ability of your fat stores to provide the missing calories will at some point become a constraint. 30 calories per day per lb of fat from memory.0 -
I could have some of this wrong, but here's what I understand. Low calorie consumption over a long period of time will cause your body to consume the vast majority of your fat stores and then start catabolizing your lean tissue. Eventually, I believe, it gets to your organs, too. What seems to be a common knee-jerk response around here, keeping in mind i haven't been 'around here' very long at all, is that anyone who consumes less than 1200 calories every day will go into starvation mode. I don't think it works that way. The only 'starvation mode' studies I've seen were long term (2 years, I believe) and had very few people, because, turns out, starving people long term isn't really ethical.
But that doesn't mean I think you're eating enough. Are you familiar at all with the CRON diet? It's a way of eating where you eat very low calories but get optimal nutrition ('optimal nutrition' here means all of your vitamins and minerals; it's very healthy food, because there's no caloric room for anything that isn't nutritious, basically). And it has nothing to do with weight loss, it's about living longer than us everyday humans. It's all very much based in science. The idea being you limit you calorie intake to drop your weight to a certain level because, guess what? That drastically slows your metabolism down. Evidently this works great in rats and mice. A few years ago, there was lots of excitement about a study being done in rhesus monkeys, because they would be more likely to mimic humans. Unfortunately for the people eating 800-1200 calories every day for years on end, the near-starving monkey didn't live any longer than the normal monkey (although I thought his skin looked much less wrinkly, if that matters). Turns out the lab mice and rats used in the earlier, positive studies aren't like normal mice and rats. We've effed with them a bunch. So, those studies were basically comparing calorie restricted genetic freaks to overweight genetic freaks. And the calorie restricted genetic freaks did better. In the monkey study, the 'normal' monkey was fed an adequate diet, while in the rat studies the rats were given unlimited access to food and genetically predisposed to eat more than they needed. Because they're the sort of rats that get used in obesity studies, and they need to eat lots to get obese.
So all that to say, you may actually be doing yourself more harm than good. Not because your body is eating all of your muscles plus a few vital organs, but because you may be lowering your metabolism. And a lower metabolism is bad, especially for weight loss, and it won't help you live 150 years, either.0 -
you sound very similar to Biggest Loser contestants - eat enough food for adequate nutrition and have a high level of exercise to create a big deficit. Works for them with professional supervision and participation.
Don't worry about those suckled and weaned on MFP group think, reputable organisations have no concept of "net calories" or "eat your BMR" and indeed "1200 calories" isn't a thing in many places.
The main concern to watch is that you reduce the calorie deficit as you get closer to goal weight as the ability of your fat stores to provide the missing calories will at some point become a constraint. 30 calories per day per lb of fat from memory.
The world according to Yarwell.
The GroupThink of MFP says basically, yeah, go ahead and undereat. Just don't post a "WHY can't I lose any weight, or WHY is my hair falling out, or WHY do I feel terrible, or WHY am I having headaches?" etc.
With sufficient body fat, you can have a larger deficit - like the last part of Yarwell's reply. Just watch your nutrition carefully. It is impossible to get sufficient nutrition on 0 Net calories.
Your choice - if you want to do it your way, no one is stopping you.
But why would you if you can still lose and eat enough to give your body what it needs?0 -
it works great and you feel great... until it doesn't work great and you no longer feel great... and that day will happen eventually. and you're in for a world of hurt when it does.0
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it works great and you feel great... until it doesn't work great and you no longer feel great... and that day will happen eventually. and you're in for a world of hurt when it does.
Why exactly is he in for a world of hurt???
All he will need to do is slowly increase his calories to maintenance level and if he still needs to lose more weight then he can maintain for a while in order to even out and then do a TDEE diet to lose the rest!!! Not seeing any pain here!!0 -
A world of hurt? Thats the kind of comments I am speaking of. What does that mean? My head will explode? My legs may fall off?
I feel great. I have went to the doctor and had everything checked out last month and the only thing that was out of kilter was my bilirubin levels, which I think have nothing to do with exercise or diet. If anything that can be caused by a fatty liver, and losing weight will make my liver less fat, no?
I am not "starving". If I am hungry, I eat. I NEVER go hungry. I eat several low calorie snacks multiple times per day. I was never a big healthy eater even before I gained all the weight, but I have always been healthy.
I take the mulit-vitamin, calcium, and seperate Vitamin D to try and cover up any gaps. Does that not help? I also drink lots of water.
All these damaging things people that have low net calorie are told on this site, I am just trying to figure out what it is. If anyone has felt the "world of hurt" after all the weight loss caught up with you, Im curious to what happened to you and how'd you handle it.0 -
I see people getting ripped on here for eating too little and lots of people say when you do that you will actually gain weight.
Well, I have a question for you. Im not being a smartass either, I seriously want to know.
MFP tells me to eat 1550 calories per day, down from 1900 when I started. I started Jan14 2013 and weighed 300 pounds. I currently weigh 234, so as you can see I have lost 64 pounds.
I would say on average I eat about 1300 calories per day. There may be some days when I eat 2200 and others where I eat 800. I eat when I am hungry but I always avoid my past destruction foods (chips, pizza, fried chicken, french fries). I do not eat "healthy" but I stopped eating the really bad foods. I do take a daily multivitamin along with calcium and Vitamin D.
I walk at a minimum of 5 miles each day and sometimes depending on my time, I walk as many as 10. In the past month I have added an exercise bike routine and have been going about 14 miles each day on that. So all together I burn on average each day via exercise around 1000 calories. Some days less and some days more.
So basically I am near a net zero after exercise at the end of each day. Some days I am negative quite a bit, some days I am not, but on average Im near zero. I have been doing this now for 5+ months, lost 66 pounds, I feel great, my clothes fit, I do not get tired nearly as easily and everything seems to be going great. However, from all the posts I read on here I am doing it totally wrong and unhealthy.
So I want to know in your opinion, how dangerous (if at all) is it the way I am doing it? I do not want to quit doing it the way I am doing it because my results have been fantastic. So I am just curious to those smarter than me, what do you suggest I do?
Thanks!!
The body needs calories and nutrients for basic everyday functions that happen regardless of any exercise.0 -
Here's my uneducated opinion.
It's working for you, so go for it. However, having said that, how sustainable is this going to be for you in the big picture? Only you can answer that. My other thought is that there will likely, for reasons others will post, come a time when your weight loss will plateau. My only suggestion at that time would be re-think your eating plan and take a look at new options. Believe it or not, sometimes it takes eating more to jump start your weight loss again. I have no idea how this works biologically, I just know it works because I did it.
I would never tell someone they're losing weight "wrong". My only caution is to do it in a way that you can picture living for the rest of your life (with slight adjustments once you've reached your goal weight). Otherwise you're going to be back on here in two years at 300 pounds lamenting that you allowed yourself to go right back to the beginning again. And yes, I've seen it happen on here. I am just such a person. I lost the weight I wanted to on weight watchers almost ten years ago. I learned nothing about nutrition and the lifestyle just wasn't sustainable for me. And I gained it all back plus some more. This time I vowed it would be different. I spent a lot of time reading on MFP and other sources about nutrition, and about lifestyle changes. I was not/am not on a diet. I made a lifestyle change. I've maintained my weight loss now for three months, which I realize doesn't sound like much but it's huge for me.
Congrats on your weight loss thus far. You should be proud of yourself.0 -
The problem isn't whether or not you can lose weight. Of course you can. The problem is that when you're done (or if something happens, say you get sick or injured) and you want to decrease your exercise or increase your calorie intake, chances are high that you will gain more weight back than you would like.0
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When you are morbidly obese, your body can handle a larger deficit. As you get closer to your goal weight, this isn't true. You will need to eat for energy. Otherwise, you're going to end up destroying your lean body mass.
The whole "you'll stop losing" mantra isn't necessarily correct, but the body not functioning properly - organs not at optimum, skin looks bad and hangs on you, no energy, hair falling out, etc. - that stuff will happen.0 -
This is how I see it- eventually you will start losing muscle (if you haven't already). Now you might say "I don't care about being muscular!!!" But remember, your heart is a muscle too and you will lose from there too. That's why so many anorexics drop dead from heart issues.0
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The problem isn't whether or not you can lose weight. Of course you can. The problem is that when you're done (or if something happens, say you get sick or injured) and you want to decrease your exercise or increase your calorie intake, chances are high that you will gain more weight back than you would like.
Why???
If you are on a TDEE - x% diet you are generally recommended to start at around 20 - 25% deficit with a lot of weight to lose and then gradually move up to - 10% and then maintenance once you are happy with your weight.
What is the difference with a LCD other than the fact that you are starting at a much higher deficit. You can still move it up in stages as you get closer to target weight!!
The only reason he would gain back lots of weight is if his 'exit' plan was flawed.0 -
You are not just losing fat, you are also losing a lot of lean mass. Lean mass is what for the most part, is responsible for your BMR. The more lean mass you lose, the less calories your body requirs to function. Thus, on a certain point you will want to maintain your weight. In order to do so, you will have to keep on monitoring your daily intake, which should be significantly lower then when you had made more healthy choices instead of going for a quick & crash 'solution'.
Furthermore you are risking malnutrition which will at some point lead to healthproblems. Just because you are feeling fine now doesn't mean you aren't doing damage to your body.0 -
good question, bumping to read responses. also just for my own information do you have a HRM to estimate calories, and are u weighing or measuring your food? just curious because altho I have a HRM, I know I don't weight or measure my food, just kind of guesstimate so i'm sure i'm eating more than I think I am.0
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This is how I see it- eventually you will start losing muscle (if you haven't already). Now you might say "I don't care about being muscular!!!" But remember, your heart is a muscle too and you will lose from there too. That's why so many anorexics drop dead from heart issues.
I hear you on that, but I would hardly classify myself as anorexic. (Not saying you were saying that either)
I have become addicted to exercising and dont want to stop. My legs have gotten very muscular from all the walking and biking. So if I kept that up I would have to eat nearly 3000 calories each day to get to the 1550 MFP suggests. I cannot see myself eating that much. I eat whenever I am hungry now and usually end up consuming 1200-1500. Are some suggesting you eat even when you are not hungry to get the MFP suggested calorie net?0 -
good question, bumping to read responses. also just for my own information do you have a HRM to estimate calories, and are u weighing or measuring your food? just curious because altho I have a HRM, I know I don't weight or measure my food, just kind of guesstimate so i'm sure i'm eating more than I think I am.
I use an app called Striiv that counts my steps and tells me how many calories I burned. I have an electronic exercise bike that calculates calories burned on there. I don't weigh any of my food, but usually do not need to, most things I eat are packaged and have a clear calorie amount on the label. I am a terrible eater, always have been. I am too darned picky and hate the taste of all veggies. On a typical day I eat protein bars, cereal bars, lean pocket, peanut butter crackers and egg whites on low cal bread.
SO I guess I am kinda guesstimating on calories consumed and burned but I hope its somewhere close. I know the weight loss is accurate though.
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"Net" is not a recognized term in the medical community. When they set the suggested minimum calories, it does not have any conditions about adding more; that is an MFP thing. I understand why, but you are not getting less than the doctor recommended minimum calories. I don't believe you will start catabolizing and eating your heart without first getting seriously fatigued and hungry. The body might switch over to another food store if the fat has largely disappeared, but I think it will complain first. The "sustainable" argument also rubs me the wrong way. No deficit driven diet is sustainable. At some point you need to adjust to maintain. You just have a bigger adjustment to deal with.
I do agree that having a big adjustment to make will decrease the odds of successful transition, but I think the constant loss makes it more likely that you will complete the losing phase. So overall odds of success? Who knows, but if what you are doing now is working then changing things will do what to the odds? I think you stay the course for the best chance.
EDIT - in the spirit of full disclosure, I lost most of my 50 between early Feb and now eating about 1200, and running a lot without eating calories back. I am now eating more to try to come in for a smoother transition to maintenance.0 -
Okay Nashville---66 pounds in 5 and half months is great! I think you may be confusing folks who would attack someone within a healthy range for BMI measurements and someone who is 234 pounds and how tall. What your doing is working so continue--I seriously doubt you're losing a lot of lean muscle mass but you may have lost a little. Height would help in terms of your measurements. Im 5 feet 11 and my BMI is 178 pounds. My current weight is 201. I have lost 15 pounds since February and have lost zero none nada zilch lean muscle mass. Keep on keeping on, and, at some point, depending on your height, you may get closer to 110% BMI and then you'll need to make some changes, and be prepared for a long slow grind. The payoff will be worth it.0
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If it ain't broke, don't fix it! You're losing weight and feeling great, Don't mess with good results. And congratulations!0
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Okay Nashville---66 pounds in 5 and half months is great! I think you may be confusing folks who would attack someone within a healthy range for BMI measurements and someone who is 234 pounds and how tall. What your doing is working so continue--I seriously doubt you're losing a lot of lean muscle mass but you may have lost a little. Height would help in terms of your measurements. Im 5 feet 11 and my BMI is 178 pounds. My current weight is 201. I have lost 15 pounds since February and have lost zero none nada zilch lean muscle mass. Keep on keeping on, and, at some point, depending on your height, you may get closer to 110% BMI and then you'll need to make some changes, and be prepared for a long slow grind. The payoff will be worth it.
I am 6'0 tall and have a large frame anyways. I believe to be "normal" weight, Im suggested to be 186. That aint gonna happen!! LOL
I am technically obese now at 234, which was hard for me to believe, cause I do not think I look "obese". I need to get to 219 to just be "overweight". I'll see what it looks and feels like when I get there. I know several years back when I graduated the Police Academy at 215 I was in the best shape Ihad ever been in and felt wonderful. I think I would melt away at 186....lol0 -
"Net" is not a recognized term in the medical community. When they set the suggested minimum calories, it does not have any conditions about adding more; that is an MFP thing. I understand why, but you are not getting less than the doctor recommended minimum calories. I don't believe you will start catabolizing and eating your heart without first getting seriously fatigued and hungry. The body might switch over to another food store if the fat has largely disappeared, but I think it will complain first. The "sustainable" argument also rubs me the wrong way. No deficit driven diet is sustainable. At some point you need to adjust to maintain. You just have a bigger adjustment to deal with.
I do agree that having a big adjustment to make will decrease the odds of successful transition, but I think the constant loss makes it more likely that you will complete the losing phase. So overall odds of success? Who knows, but if what you are doing now is working then changing things will do what to the odds? I think you stay the course for the best chance.
EDIT - in the spirit of full disclosure, I lost most of my 50 between early Feb and now eating about 1200, and running a lot without eating calories back. I am now eating more to try to come in for a smoother transition to maintenance.
Thanks for your response, that makes sense and was more in line with what I was thinking, it just does not seem to be a popular belief around here.0 -
It sounds as if you're doing great. Sure it would be better if you ate more healthy food, but few people eat perfectly, and it's a habit you can change.0
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This is how I see it- eventually you will start losing muscle (if you haven't already). Now you might say "I don't care about being muscular!!!" But remember, your heart is a muscle too and you will lose from there too. That's why so many anorexics drop dead from heart issues.
He's 234 pounds, not 80. He's a loooooooooooooooong way from having to worry about that, and probably never will.0 -
31.4 calories per pound to be exact.you sound very similar to Biggest Loser contestants - eat enough food for adequate nutrition and have a high level of exercise to create a big deficit. Works for them with professional supervision and participation.
Don't worry about those suckled and weaned on MFP group think, reputable organisations have no concept of "net calories" or "eat your BMR" and indeed "1200 calories" isn't a thing in many places.
The main concern to watch is that you reduce the calorie deficit as you get closer to goal weight as the ability of your fat stores to provide the missing calories will at some point become a constraint. 30 calories per day per lb of fat from memory.
When you still have a lot of fat it doesn't matter if you under eat. It only matters when a person is fairly lean.0 -
Okay Nashville---66 pounds in 5 and half months is great! I think you may be confusing folks who would attack someone within a healthy range for BMI measurements and someone who is 234 pounds and how tall. What your doing is working so continue--I seriously doubt you're losing a lot of lean muscle mass but you may have lost a little. Height would help in terms of your measurements. Im 5 feet 11 and my BMI is 178 pounds. My current weight is 201. I have lost 15 pounds since February and have lost zero none nada zilch lean muscle mass. Keep on keeping on, and, at some point, depending on your height, you may get closer to 110% BMI and then you'll need to make some changes, and be prepared for a long slow grind. The payoff will be worth it.
I am 6'0 tall and have a large frame anyways. I believe to be "normal" weight, Im suggested to be 186. That aint gonna happen!! LOL
I am technically obese now at 234, which was hard for me to believe, cause I do not think I look "obese". I need to get to 219 to just be "overweight". I'll see what it looks and feels like when I get there. I know several years back when I graduated the Police Academy at 215 I was in the best shape Ihad ever been in and felt wonderful. I think I would melt away at 186....lol
If you were 215 and had a good bit of lean mass, then you probably have good muscle memory when it comes to strength training and retaining lean mass, BUT it won't be the case with that high a deficit. Your body isn't going to keep going like this for much longer. Fatigue and poor performance will happen sooner rather than later, particularly now that you are down to a reasonable weight. Yes, you'll keep losing, but you'll lose muscle and bone density.0 -
You'll need to transition to eating more as you get closer to your goal and I'd really focus now on getting the most nutrition bang for your buck out of what you eat. Your body will take what it wants first so as long as you provide the nutrients you're good to go. You've no doubt lost lean body mass along with fat so I'd start doing some muscle building exercises rather than so much cardio.
As for calculating exercise calories burned based on a pedometer and an exercise bike, I'd bet you aren't burning nearly what you think you are. Machines are notorious liars and usually grossly over estimate calorie burn and if you've been walking that much I bet you've got your heart rate down to where it's being really efficient with your calorie burn. A good investment would be a heart rate monitor and find out what you really are burning.
Weighing and measuring food is the only way to be accurate. Most of us are horrible and estimating portion sizes. I know what I used to think was a serving of pasta actually turned out to be 3!0 -
I was a little worried about seeing my doctor a little while back as I kind of expected a little push back to lose slower. She was ecstatic! The suggested minimums are driven by somewhat average metabolism, the amount of common foods it takes to get reasonable nutrients and a desire to keep from stressing the system too much. Those numbers are out there for general consumption and need to be a little conservative because people will use them without seeing a doctor. We are seeing our doctors and not getting chewed out and asked to change.went to the doctor and had everything checked out last month
I do think the suggestions made here about how to structure a good diet are a very good option. But I think some people get a bit overzealous about it and twist the facts to make it sound like anything else is reckless, dangerous and doomed to failure.0 -
I am not a doctor ( I just play one on tv, j/k) but with my research on nutrition and weight loss I would say keep up the good work of eating enough food but burning off the fat with exercise.
My non professional recommendation is to eat a little more, make sure your eating is varied from better food sources to get all your nutritional needs met and keep exercising!
Less junk food the better, eating junk food displaces better for us foods.
Feed your body, burn off the fat!
Best Wishes on your journey to health!0 -
I am trying to make sense of this. So I weigh 175 with 24% BF for 42 # of BF, 42 * 31.4 = 1318.8. I like round numbers, so I will call that 1300. My sedentary TDEE is around 2000 so if I understand correctly, BF would have no trouble with TDEE as long as I ate 700. This morning I ran 8.5 miles and burned about 1000 calories. So where would it get the calories if I eat less than 1700 today?
31.4 calories per pound to be exact.The main concern to watch is that you reduce the calorie deficit as you get closer to goal weight as the ability of your fat stores to provide the missing calories will at some point become a constraint. 30 calories per day per lb of fat from memory.
When you still have a lot of fat it doesn't matter if you under eat. It only matters when a person is fairly lean.0 -
Didn't read all the replies so sorry if I'm repeating.
First off, congratulations on your loss so far! That must have taken so much hard work. You're awesome.
Anyway, I'm definitely one of those "eat more!" people, but I believe there are exceptions. In your case, starting at 300 pounds, you are quite different than a lot of people on here who just want to lose 15-30 pounds and get in shape. You see, the larger you are, the more fat you have stored (obviously). This means that if you eat a very low calorie diet, your body can get by on your fat stores for quite a while. This is how Biggest Loser contestants do it, and why doctors put obese people on 1200 calories a day (without eating back exercise calories). As you get smaller, however, your body doesn't have as much fat to burn, so if you keep a big deficit it will start eating up your lean mass and your metabolism will eventually slow down. That's pretty much the opposite of what anyone wants, which is why many of us around here advocate for eating more calories and losing weight more slowly. It's more maintainable because your metabolism is going to stay healthy.
Basically, what you're doing isn't AWFUL, but you're going to need to reevaluate eventually. I know this seems counter-intuitive, but you're actually going to want to INCREASE your calories as you lose more weight. I started here with a 500/day deficit to lose my first 15 pounds. Now I'm trying to lose 10 more at only a 250/day deficit. The less fat your body has to burn, the smaller of a deficit you should have. This will keep you healthy and happy!
For more information I found this post really helpful: http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/1017045-a-very-interesting-and-informational-read-on-deficits
Good luck!!0
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