OK, you guys & gals tell me why this is bad
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Did you know that your brain needs about 1/5 of your calories to function? There is a reason that if you don't eat enough you start to feel dull minded and have a hard time concentrating. Feed your brain, people!0
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Hmmm0
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Here's my uneducated opinion.
It's working for you, so go for it. However, having said that, how sustainable is this going to be for you in the big picture? Only you can answer that. My other thought is that there will likely, for reasons others will post, come a time when your weight loss will plateau. My only suggestion at that time would be re-think your eating plan and take a look at new options. Believe it or not, sometimes it takes eating more to jump start your weight loss again. I have no idea how this works biologically, I just know it works because I did it.
I would never tell someone they're losing weight "wrong". My only caution is to do it in a way that you can picture living for the rest of your life (with slight adjustments once you've reached your goal weight). Otherwise you're going to be back on here in two years at 300 pounds lamenting that you allowed yourself to go right back to the beginning again. And yes, I've seen it happen on here. I am just such a person. I lost the weight I wanted to on weight watchers almost ten years ago. I learned nothing about nutrition and the lifestyle just wasn't sustainable for me. And I gained it all back plus some more. This time I vowed it would be different. I spent a lot of time reading on MFP and other sources about nutrition, and about lifestyle changes. I was not/am not on a diet. I made a lifestyle change. I've maintained my weight loss now for three months, which I realize doesn't sound like much but it's huge for me.
Congrats on your weight loss thus far. You should be proud of yourself.
You learned nothing about nutrition at WW??? We talk about that every week at my meetings. Guess you had a bad leader??0 -
What it means is 1300 is your maximum calorie deficit without losing lean tissue. This is also assuming you're eating enough protein and lifting. Even then, it's not guaranteed you won't lose muscle, it's just that if you exceed at 1300 calorie deficit you will lose muscle.
I am trying to make sense of this. So I weigh 175 with 24% BF for 42 # of BF, 42 * 31.4 = 1318.8. I like round numbers, so I will call that 1300. My sedentary TDEE is around 2000 so if I understand correctly, BF would have no trouble with TDEE as long as I ate 700. This morning I ran 8.5 miles and burned about 1000 calories. So where would it get the calories if I eat less than 1700 today?
31.4 calories per pound to be exact.The main concern to watch is that you reduce the calorie deficit as you get closer to goal weight as the ability of your fat stores to provide the missing calories will at some point become a constraint. 30 calories per day per lb of fat from memory.
When you still have a lot of fat it doesn't matter if you under eat. It only matters when a person is fairly lean.0 -
All very interesting information. I never ear less than 1300 calories a day, if I am hungry I eat but I don't pull out the potato chip bag, I have something healthy....0
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I believe the difference is because you are bigger (no offence intended) your body can tolerate a bigger deficit CURRENTLY ...when you get close to goal if only eating 1300 calories it doesnt really allow you anywhere to move. I can only speak for myself...I started at 380 pounds...and I am now 198 pounds....I have eaten 1800 calories for most of my journey. I recently tried 1200-1400 calories for a period of time...the scales barely moved....I went back to 1800 calories this week and have lost in excess of 2 pounds and I still have a couple days left to the week.0
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Just for reference I am 6'1" and ~184 lbs, and I'm not by any measure "melting away" considering I can squat over 1.5 times my body weight. I need to eat about 2800 a day to maintain. I was 155 lbs at 22 years old and I was 'thin' then but still in good physical shape at that time too.0
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I could have some of this wrong, but here's what I understand. Low calorie consumption over a long period of time will cause your body to consume the vast majority of your fat stores and then start catabolizing your lean tissue. Eventually, I believe, it gets to your organs, too. What seems to be a common knee-jerk response around here, keeping in mind i haven't been 'around here' very long at all, is that anyone who consumes less than 1200 calories every day will go into starvation mode. I don't think it works that way. The only 'starvation mode' studies I've seen were long term (2 years, I believe) and had very few people, because, turns out, starving people long term isn't really ethical.
But that doesn't mean I think you're eating enough. Are you familiar at all with the CRON diet? It's a way of eating where you eat very low calories but get optimal nutrition ('optimal nutrition' here means all of your vitamins and minerals; it's very healthy food, because there's no caloric room for anything that isn't nutritious, basically). And it has nothing to do with weight loss, it's about living longer than us everyday humans. It's all very much based in science. The idea being you limit you calorie intake to drop your weight to a certain level because, guess what? That drastically slows your metabolism down. Evidently this works great in rats and mice. A few years ago, there was lots of excitement about a study being done in rhesus monkeys, because they would be more likely to mimic humans. Unfortunately for the people eating 800-1200 calories every day for years on end, the near-starving monkey didn't live any longer than the normal monkey (although I thought his skin looked much less wrinkly, if that matters). Turns out the lab mice and rats used in the earlier, positive studies aren't like normal mice and rats. We've effed with them a bunch. So, those studies were basically comparing calorie restricted genetic freaks to overweight genetic freaks. And the calorie restricted genetic freaks did better. In the monkey study, the 'normal' monkey was fed an adequate diet, while in the rat studies the rats were given unlimited access to food and genetically predisposed to eat more than they needed. Because they're the sort of rats that get used in obesity studies, and they need to eat lots to get obese.
So all that to say, you may actually be doing yourself more harm than good. Not because your body is eating all of your muscles plus a few vital organs, but because you may be lowering your metabolism. And a lower metabolism is bad, especially for weight loss, and it won't help you live 150 years, either.
so if its short term its fine to eat low calories to lose weight?0 -
I see people getting ripped on here for eating too little and lots of people say when you do that you will actually gain weight.
Well, I have a question for you. Im not being a smartass either, I seriously want to know.
MFP tells me to eat 1550 calories per day, down from 1900 when I started. I started Jan14 2013 and weighed 300 pounds. I currently weigh 234, so as you can see I have lost 64 pounds.
I would say on average I eat about 1300 calories per day. There may be some days when I eat 2200 and others where I eat 800. I eat when I am hungry but I always avoid my past destruction foods (chips, pizza, fried chicken, french fries). I do not eat "healthy" but I stopped eating the really bad foods. I do take a daily multivitamin along with calcium and Vitamin D.
I walk at a minimum of 5 miles each day and sometimes depending on my time, I walk as many as 10. In the past month I have added an exercise bike routine and have been going about 14 miles each day on that. So all together I burn on average each day via exercise around 1000 calories. Some days less and some days more.
So basically I am near a net zero after exercise at the end of each day. Some days I am negative quite a bit, some days I am not, but on average Im near zero. I have been doing this now for 5+ months, lost 66 pounds, I feel great, my clothes fit, I do not get tired nearly as easily and everything seems to be going great. However, from all the posts I read on here I am doing it totally wrong and unhealthy.
So I want to know in your opinion, how dangerous (if at all) is it the way I am doing it? I do not want to quit doing it the way I am doing it because my results have been fantastic. So I am just curious to those smarter than me, what do you suggest I do?
Thanks!!
dude, theres nothing wrong with what you are doing, you are exercising and tracking your intake and seeing results.
it sounds like overall you have a healthy weekly deficit and thats all that matters.
there are a lot of people who have just arrived on MFP that form a mob that are uneducated about health and fitness and just regurgitate what they hear for each other. they're the "eat more" crew and the "starvation mode"rs and the "never eat less than 1200" posse, the "a calorie is not a calorie" clowns and the "lets cut out food groups cause that helps" dumbasses.
its kind of like chinese whispers in a circle, but the first guy didn't know what he was talking about, so the cycle of misinformed opinion is endless. they also form a bulk of people who never seem to actually try to help people.
so yeh, don't listen to them, you're doing great and you can for the most part eat what you want when you want with your calories.
high 5 brother. 66lb is something to be proud of.
*brofist.0 -
The clinking noise you hear now is me mixing some whey vanilla into a glass of milk... :bigsmile:
What it means is 1300 is your maximum calorie deficit without losing lean tissue. This is also assuming you're eating enough protein and lifting. Even then, it's not guaranteed you won't lose muscle, it's just that if you exceed at 1300 calorie deficit you will lose muscle.
I am trying to make sense of this. So I weigh 175 with 24% BF for 42 # of BF, 42 * 31.4 = 1318.8. I like round numbers, so I will call that 1300. My sedentary TDEE is around 2000 so if I understand correctly, BF would have no trouble with TDEE as long as I ate 700. This morning I ran 8.5 miles and burned about 1000 calories. So where would it get the calories if I eat less than 1700 today?
31.4 calories per pound to be exact.The main concern to watch is that you reduce the calorie deficit as you get closer to goal weight as the ability of your fat stores to provide the missing calories will at some point become a constraint. 30 calories per day per lb of fat from memory.
When you still have a lot of fat it doesn't matter if you under eat. It only matters when a person is fairly lean.
EDIT - It's funny; I don't believe in the starvation myth and won't eat more to lose more (because I don't believe that will work) but I will eat more to keep from losing LBM. This has science I understand behind it. One of the pitfalls of running semi-long distance like I do is that every 2 or 3 days I burn 1000 calories all at once and I need to be able to fuel that with food and fat. When I had plenty of fat, I could still average out the food.0 -
Here's the problem: you might not be getting all the nutrients you need. The number of calories isn't so important as the vitamins and minerals your body needs to stay healthy. You might be feeling energized, but that doesn't mean there isn't damage going on inside, such as gradual oxidation stress on your organs from vitamin deficiencies. I'd recommend a multivitamin right away, but to be honest, nothing is going to be as good for you as whole food. You have to really focus on eating nutrient dense food on that low of a calorie consumption.0
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Here's the problem: you might not be getting all the nutrients you need. The number of calories isn't so important as the vitamins and minerals your body needs to stay healthy. You might be feeling energized, but that doesn't mean there isn't damage going on inside, such as gradual oxidation stress on your organs from vitamin deficiencies. I'd recommend a multivitamin right away, but to be honest, nothing is going to be as good for you as whole food. You have to really focus on eating nutrient dense food on that low of a calorie consumption.
hes taking one. the line below is about half way through his post, although what you say is true.I do take a daily multivitamin along with calcium and Vitamin D.0 -
Your organs need 500 calories a day to function. If you aren't getting enough calories, your body burns fat (eventually, it will burn muscle, but that is in extreme cases, like starvation). The idea that you need to eat more calories to lose weight (the whole your body will go into starvation mode myth) that I see on these boards all the time is wrong. This is an article from a doctor that explains it: http://www.healthscience.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=512:are-you-in-the-starvation-mode-or-starving-for-truth&catid=102:jeff-novicks-blog&Itemid=2670
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Very interesting topic! I feel to myself that am in the same boat
But in reading. Why is it that your always told that you need to
Burn more calorie then you eat? So I am totally puzzled wondering if I am
doing the right thing or am going wrong. In the beginning
I lost some pounds but realized that my scale wasn't moving
Anymore so what I did was up my exercise and it took off
after that but I must say I eat my 1500 calories some day but
Some days I don't cause am not as hungry. I truely feel good
For once in my life after trying to lose for years. So am still questioning
myself am I going right or not? I must say good luck to all
on your journey for its not as easy as some make a seem.0 -
Best person to ask is your doctor0
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I certainly don't agree with the "eat more to lose more" argument. But I'd be worried about the wear and tear on my joints if I were you. I know you said you're feeling great now--that's excellent! So as long as this method is short-term and you switch to another program to maintain your goal, all should be well.
Congrats on the progress and good luck with the rest. =D0 -
I think you should start looking at what you are eating. Even if you eat lower calories like you have been, I encourage you to stop or at least greatly limit the prepackaged and processed foods. From what you described, that will eventually catch up to you. You'll hit a plateau and plus those are just not healthy! It's both exercise and diet hand in hand. Not one or the other. I encourage you to measure your food you currently eat for a week. Then switch out one typical meal for something you fully prepare yourself. See the difference it can make. What you listed as typical foods just made me cringe. I eat out occasionally, indulge in sweets here and there and don't fully deprive myself. But I take special care to make my own food 95% of the time so I know exactly what is in it. It's easier to track calories and be healthy. Plus it tastes better!0
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Well I was never one to agree with eating back calories because MFP already has a deficit built in. That is a good idea and I am glad they do that. But, everyone is starting from a different place. If you have a lot to lose you can lose more in a week. If your metabolism is slow like mine the built in deficit isn't near as much as MFP has it at. For me the built in deficit is 200 calories or less, not the 400+ calories. So, I either have to eat fewer than my allotted calories or exercise more and also take into consideration that the calorie burn could be up to 15% less than it says as well.
The bottom line is you are in a much better position to know if what you are doing is working or not. It's your scale/tape measure and your body. You will know if the burn numbers are correct or close to correct by how much you are losing in a given week (assuming no water retention or muscle gain). I would say you do have to add calories as you go along though, just because you are close to goal and have become addicted to exercise and if you don't want to stop doing that you will need fuel and you will need to train your body to be able to take more food. Or drink your calories.0 -
You say you aren't hungry. Lots of people on low calorie diets say this. You might want to consider how many vitamin deficiencies and mineral deficiencies have "hunger" as a symptom (and how many have 'loss of appetite' as a symptom) and whether or not it's wise to trust hunger to guide you to eat the proper levels of these nutrients.0
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No one ever got fat from not eating enough. If your plan is working for you, then by all means, keep going!0
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so if its short term its fine to eat low calories to lose weight?
I wouldn't say that, necessarily, but it depends entirely on what you mean by short term and low calories, as well as your starting point and various personal variables. I'm not sure why I find reading studies fun, but there is an interesting study on starvation from the 1940s. And by starvations, I mean 1600 calories per day for six months for a group of men used to 3000. Plus, they all started at relatively healthy weights.
So, they fed 35 men 3000 (more if underweight and less if overweight) calories for 3 months. Then, they fed them 1600 calories for six months. They were given a diet high in carbs, because the study was meant to aid POWs. Then, for a couple of months they gradually increased their calories to return them to 3000, and finally they let them go hog wild while carefully monitoring them.
The interesting part is that during the calorie restriction phase, they went sort of nuts. Food porn was the only reading material they wanted, they lost interest in sex (although many reported enjoying the lack of distraction, I'd chalk that one up to the time period), they started inadvertently talking about food all time (using food phrases, like "as sweet as pie" or "happy as a clam"), and a host of other things. One guy, in a new relationship, said he'd loved her in the 3000 calorie phase, but during the restriction phase was mostly interested in scenes of eating at the movies they went to he saidshe was too much effort. Another guy asked if gum chewing was allowed. It was. So, he was eating upwards of 30 packs a day. When the researchers found out, it was no longer allowed. One dude cut off three of his fingers with a hatchet, but couldn't remember if he did it on purpose or not. He was immediately removed from the study, for obvious reasons. Some would hoard all of their food to have a big meal, others ate it all immediately upon waking, some felt feelings of guilt or disgust about eating. Some spent hours eating their meals, savoring everything, and kany of them wanted their food as flavorful and seasoned as possible. Remember, these aren't even guys trying to lose weight. Theyre just normal men eating less than normal.
But probably more applicable to all of us is what happened then after they returned them to normal calroes and let them go nuts. They reported never feeling full, despite eating meals of thousands of calories. They said they were still preoccupied with food. They ate until the point of sickness and then felt guilt and shame, but were eating again half an hour later. And, on average, they gained back their starting weights plus 10%. Two years later, many of then said they still didn't have their normal libido and some of them were still reported uncontrollable appetitites, even though most had managed to return to their normal weights. Two of them continued restricting their calories because they felt out of control.
But that's obviously extreme. Most of us aren't restricting calories despite being normal weights. Plus, we don't have researchers counting every calorie that passes our lips. But, I think some of the behavior is common for anyone restricting. Food porn, for sure, is something I see in many of my friends who are crash dieting. Hours of the food network, when they normally despise it. That sort of thing. It may not be detrimental to your health, but it could be if the rebound gorging the men experienced is something you experience too. And we know people yoyo diet, usually, when they crash diet (or severely restrict calories temporarily to quickly dropwweight).0 -
An important thing to note. It was not a study on dieting and weight loss done willingly. Lots of people use the anecdotes of particular participants of this study mentioned in the post to draw broad conclusions about diet and weight loss. Most of the odd behavior occurred when BF% had dropped into the 5% range. Very few of us will ever drop below 15%.there is an interesting study on starvation from the 1940s
I think a lot of this goes back to the numbers that came up yesterday - the stored fat release rate. I am getting close enough to goal that this matters to me now, but from running the numbers it is pretty apparent that anyone that is more than a little overweight can get enough calories from stored fat to withstand a pretty severe deficit. The guys in that study obviously could not.
And before the macro nutrient folks jump all over me, yes, there are lots of nutrients you need to be healthy and you need to be careful that you don't get too little of those.0 -
I have pondered on this a while. When I started 'dieting' my all-time high weight was about 180lb (I'm 5'9). I was able to eat 1500 calories a day, sometimes netting 900-1000 calories a day without feeling hungry at all for about two months. However, once I crossed into the 160s and lower I was constantly hungry and developed some ED-like behaviours. I also became extremely gaunt-looking despite having a BMI of 22.
Now at 155lb I am unable to psychologically cope with any kind of deficit through diet and prefer to exercise to either maintain or lose very slowly (my goal is 150 but not fussed if I never make it there again...pretty happy with the mirror so far).
My conclusion after much thought is that if you are morbidly obese you have enough fat stores to go very low calorie for a long period of time without feeling hungry, and the loss of lean body mass is probably an acceptable price to pay for shedding all the excess fat squashing your organs etc you get the picture.
However as your fat stores wither away you will begin to feel hungry...and then the solution is to eat more (not less, as I tried with abysmal results).
For those trying to drop a few vanity pounds, low-cal and netting zero is a recipe for disaster. Far better to eat more and build a (moderate) deficit through exercise, thereby preserving lean body mass and dropping body fat.0 -
Thanks for all the responses and discussion....
I think based on all the posts, I will continue to do what I am doing until I reach around 215 and at that time, I will add in some strength training and add more calories to my diet. I will slow roll that until I can reach around 200 to 205 where I want to be and then re-evaluate at that time.
I really appreciate all the discussion and by all means, if anyone has more to add please do so. It is very helpful.0 -
Greetings, Scott. I was one who originally told you I was worried you'd be losing lean muscle. Reading the comments here I see they are literally all over the map in opinion. You are making great progress! Your weekly weight loss is not a dramatic 10lbs a week every week, but seems very controlled. I'd say keep doing what you are doing. Obviously, I am not a doctor.0
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I see people getting ripped on here for eating too little and lots of people say when you do that you will actually gain weight.
Well, I have a question for you. Im not being a smartass either, I seriously want to know.
MFP tells me to eat 1550 calories per day, down from 1900 when I started. I started Jan14 2013 and weighed 300 pounds. I currently weigh 234, so as you can see I have lost 64 pounds.
I would say on average I eat about 1300 calories per day. There may be some days when I eat 2200 and others where I eat 800. I eat when I am hungry but I always avoid my past destruction foods (chips, pizza, fried chicken, french fries). I do not eat "healthy" but I stopped eating the really bad foods. I do take a daily multivitamin along with calcium and Vitamin D.
I walk at a minimum of 5 miles each day and sometimes depending on my time, I walk as many as 10. In the past month I have added an exercise bike routine and have been going about 14 miles each day on that. So all together I burn on average each day via exercise around 1000 calories. Some days less and some days more.
So basically I am near a net zero after exercise at the end of each day. Some days I am negative quite a bit, some days I am not, but on average Im near zero. I have been doing this now for 5+ months, lost 66 pounds, I feel great, my clothes fit, I do not get tired nearly as easily and everything seems to be going great. However, from all the posts I read on here I am doing it totally wrong and unhealthy.
So I want to know in your opinion, how dangerous (if at all) is it the way I am doing it? I do not want to quit doing it the way I am doing it because my results have been fantastic. So I am just curious to those smarter than me, what do you suggest I do?
Thanks!!
I don't know that anyone thinks you'll gain weight...you can't gain weight on a calorie deficit. That said, you can slow your metabolism to the point that those low calories now become your maintenance...then what? Also, I'm all about health, nutrition, fitness...doesn't sound very healthy to me...negative net calories...how about common sense....how about ask your doctor or dietician what they would think about negative net calories.
Oh, never mind....these threads sicken me and I should know better than to even open them up.0 -
Greetings, Scott. I was one who originally told you I was worried you'd be losing lean muscle. Reading the comments here I see they are literally all over the map in opinion. You are making great progress! Your weekly weight loss is not a dramatic 10lbs a week every week, but seems very controlled. I'd say keep doing what you are doing. Obviously, I am not a doctor.
I think you meant 10 pounds per month... If I were losing 10 pounds per week, we would have a story!! lol
I have been increasing my cardio each month and still losing 10 pounds per month but Im definitely having to work harder. I think 2.5 pounds per week is healthy.......0 -
I see people getting ripped on here for eating too little and lots of people say when you do that you will actually gain weight.
Well, I have a question for you. Im not being a smartass either, I seriously want to know.
MFP tells me to eat 1550 calories per day, down from 1900 when I started. I started Jan14 2013 and weighed 300 pounds. I currently weigh 234, so as you can see I have lost 64 pounds.
I would say on average I eat about 1300 calories per day. There may be some days when I eat 2200 and others where I eat 800. I eat when I am hungry but I always avoid my past destruction foods (chips, pizza, fried chicken, french fries). I do not eat "healthy" but I stopped eating the really bad foods. I do take a daily multivitamin along with calcium and Vitamin D.
I walk at a minimum of 5 miles each day and sometimes depending on my time, I walk as many as 10. In the past month I have added an exercise bike routine and have been going about 14 miles each day on that. So all together I burn on average each day via exercise around 1000 calories. Some days less and some days more.
So basically I am near a net zero after exercise at the end of each day. Some days I am negative quite a bit, some days I am not, but on average Im near zero. I have been doing this now for 5+ months, lost 66 pounds, I feel great, my clothes fit, I do not get tired nearly as easily and everything seems to be going great. However, from all the posts I read on here I am doing it totally wrong and unhealthy.
So I want to know in your opinion, how dangerous (if at all) is it the way I am doing it? I do not want to quit doing it the way I am doing it because my results have been fantastic. So I am just curious to those smarter than me, what do you suggest I do?
Thanks!!
I don't know that anyone thinks you'll gain weight...you can't gain weight on a calorie deficit. That said, you can slow your metabolism to the point that those low calories now become your maintenance...then what? Also, I'm all about health, nutrition, fitness...doesn't sound very healthy to me...negative net calories...how about common sense....how about ask your doctor or dietician what they would think about negative net calories.
Oh, never mind....these threads sicken me and I should know better than to even open them up.
You edited your post before I could respond...lol You really told me to go enjoy my new eating disorder? Really? Wow......0 -
First off congrats on your loss so far! This is how i was until i got down to losing the last 20 lbs, working out a ton and eating pretty low calories and extremely successful. Once I got close to my goal the loss just slowed down and i began eating back my calories and then dropped the next 10 lbs like it was nothing and I felt great. I think it's just your body adjusting, and once it gets adjusted you just need to change it up. I fell off track for a while and tried eating more calories and working off a certain amount everyday and it didn't work for me. Do what works for your body, and when your body changes and you're not getting the same results, just adjust. Good Luck!0
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First off congrats on your loss so far! This is how i was until i got down to losing the last 20 lbs, working out a ton and eating pretty low calories and extremely successful. Once I got close to my goal the loss just slowed down and i began eating back my calories and then dropped the next 10 lbs like it was nothing and I felt great. I think it's just your body adjusting, and once it gets adjusted you just need to change it up. I fell off track for a while and tried eating more calories and working off a certain amount everyday and it didn't work for me. Do what works for your body, and when your body changes and you're not getting the same results, just adjust. Good Luck!
I agree!! Thanks!! That is what I plan on doing.... Nice to hear you had success!0
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