Portion sizes in Japan vs. USA
NewDad24
Posts: 45
As I understand, Japan has the lowest rate of obesity in the world when compared at an equal standard. The USA has a very high rate of obesity. One primary concern for Japanese immigrants to the USA is that they gain weight. To explain the differences in obesity rates, there are some studies which cite possible economic differences and also cultural differences.
Peer pressure, more exercise, and smaller portion sizes are reasons cited for the dissimilar obesity rates. Peer pressure is a cultural influence, more exercise is cited to result from economic conditions making driving and automobile less attractive, and smaller portion sizes are cited in various studies.
It is the smaller portion sizes that I would like to focus on. People in Japan are reported to consume an approximate average of 200 calories less per day than in the USA. Japan has plenty of fast food availability when you consider the snack stalls in addition to the usually most recognized fast food outlets. I personally cannot resist frequently snacking on numbers of the gooey sweet-bean pastries in stalls and corner shops. Why is it in Japan, people eat less calories? Are they generally more satisfied with less calories?
In Japan, I have been seated to a table for four adults and served 40 bite-sized dishes. After about 10 to 11 bites of food, plus some soup broth, green tea, a little seaweed, and tiny shot of plum wine, I was completely satisfied concerning food for the remainder of the evening. My stomach was not full; but I didn't consider myself going to bed hungry either.
I have been to a number of countries too. I come back to the same idea. I wonder if there is something about these nutrient dense small foods that result in a greater satisfaction with fewer calories consumed. Any thoughts?
Peer pressure, more exercise, and smaller portion sizes are reasons cited for the dissimilar obesity rates. Peer pressure is a cultural influence, more exercise is cited to result from economic conditions making driving and automobile less attractive, and smaller portion sizes are cited in various studies.
It is the smaller portion sizes that I would like to focus on. People in Japan are reported to consume an approximate average of 200 calories less per day than in the USA. Japan has plenty of fast food availability when you consider the snack stalls in addition to the usually most recognized fast food outlets. I personally cannot resist frequently snacking on numbers of the gooey sweet-bean pastries in stalls and corner shops. Why is it in Japan, people eat less calories? Are they generally more satisfied with less calories?
In Japan, I have been seated to a table for four adults and served 40 bite-sized dishes. After about 10 to 11 bites of food, plus some soup broth, green tea, a little seaweed, and tiny shot of plum wine, I was completely satisfied concerning food for the remainder of the evening. My stomach was not full; but I didn't consider myself going to bed hungry either.
I have been to a number of countries too. I come back to the same idea. I wonder if there is something about these nutrient dense small foods that result in a greater satisfaction with fewer calories consumed. Any thoughts?
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Always thought about that... Especially since they eat a lot of white rice...0
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Crap, we're taking the wrong thing from Japan. Instead of their diet life style, we're instead taking their anime and manga, while eating sushi with a side of cupcakes and cookies, flushed down with taro flavored boba smoothie.
I can definitely see adopting the Japanese lifestyle, if it meant a healthier 'merica.0 -
My understanding is that they have education in nutrition at an early age. It's emphasized to eat meals in a balanced way.
Yes, portion sizes are smaller. That helps. Also, Japan is fairly genetically homogenous compared to America. Comparing obesity rates and causes can be difficult because of that.
Also, sweets aren't really as sweet, and there's a different lifestyle in general (more walking usually- it kinda depends on where you live there)0 -
You've never seen the all you can eat cake buffets or mega-mac and the mega potato then. Or the Lotteria 10 layer burger... Yes, traditional Japanese dining at hotels or specialist restaurants is very healthy. This gives a false view of what is "typical" in Japanese food.
I've lived in Japan for two years and people's education regarding diet and nutrition is SORELY lacking. Most people eat like crap because its more convenient than cooking. Obesity and diabetes is on the rise in Japan.0 -
You've never seen the all you can eat cake buffets or mega-mac and the mega potato then. Or the Lotteria 10 layer burger... Yes, traditional Japanese dining at hotels or specialist restaurants is very healthy. This gives a false view of what is "typical" in Japanese food.
I've lived in Japan for two years and people's education regarding diet and nutrition is SORELY lacking. Most people eat like crap because its more convenient than cooking. Obesity and diabetes is on the rise in Japan.
^ QFT0 -
Why in da world would you want to compare of all peoples Japanese to Americans. That's like comparing an apricot to a peach, similar in certain aspects but very different in others, and the glaring differences are in their physical make-up. Frankly, every person that I know who immigrated to the USA complains about the SAME stuff WE (Americans) complain about, and they complain about how much weight they have gained eating the S.A.D.
NONE of this stuff is new, but next time when you want to make a comparison, get a comparable group. Let's face it, the avg height for a male in Japan is 5'-2", for a woman about 4'-9" w/small bone structure, in USA 5'-10" and 5'-5" respectively. They need about half the calories that Americans need to sustain them.0 -
Those sweet-bean cakes are certainly very sweet. But they have a lot of legume protein too, I would assume. When I ate them, they were like some kind of health-food candy. It felt in my stomach when I ate them. I have always preferred almost any other food to sweets. Except, I used to drink sugary beverages. Those sweet-beans were great. Many times locals would laugh when they noticed how much I like them. I am told most Westerners do not like the sweet beans much.
As for the mega branches, it is my understanding that the portion sizes at a mega branch are still smaller than a comparable super-size or double-burger option in the USA. But yes obesity is on the rise in Japan. Japan has also changed the definition of obesity to a BMI of 25 which most countries consider to merely be overweight. Now there is a new law against too much adipose tissue, with options for those with too big of waist measurements to receive help. There is no punishment. But there are a lot of laws like that without punishments specified. Clean your street gutters and separate your trash, things for responsible citizens to do.
I never saw an all-you-can-eat cake buffet. I didn't see many buffets except at Sogo. We went to an all-you-can-eat Brazilian restaurant for beef. They only give you three small thin slices of beef every time you request. I can finish eating that much before the server has even stepped away from the table. I ask for more right away which was not proper but allowed because I was new to the whole thing. So they doubled up the next serving just for me.
But if you wanted to get big in Japan, there is a food for that for sure. Nabe is the food of sumo champions. Finding varieties of nabe was more common than all-you-can-eat. One nabe for me is more than an all-you-can-eat meal.
Oh yes I know there is more walking. Studies show that to be a factor. Studies also show a lower caloric intake. I was trying to discuss that. It seems to me people choose to eat less because they are actually satisfied eating less. I believe I ate less calories on average while I was there.
Yes there is genetic factor. Studies don't point to that as significant. Japanese people in the USA, even new arrivals, start putting on the pounds without conscience effort to do otherwise. So genetics is mostly relevant only in that being heavy for Japanese is more hazardous to health than many other demographic groups. Due to the hazards of the genetic factor, policy makers might make use of peer pressure to keep people out of the hospital. The new laws against belly fat are certainly an effort to notch up on that peer pressure. This is just from my understanding and quick Googling.0 -
Why in da world would you want to compare of all peoples Japanese to Americans. That's like comparing an apricot to a peach, similar in certain aspects but very different in others, and the glaring differences are in their physical make-up. Frankly, every person that I know who immigrated to the USA complains about the SAME stuff WE (Americans) complain about, and they complain about how much weight they have gained eating the S.A.D.
NONE of this stuff is new, but next time when you want to make a comparison, get a comparable group. Let's face it, the avg height for a male in Japan is 5'-2", for a woman about 4'-9" w/small bone structure, in USA 5'-10" and 5'-5" respectively. They need about half the calories that Americans need to sustain them.
Go online and see how much research is done comparing Japan and the USA. I cannot be certain of why researchers want to compare. Likely the reason is an effort to learn something when doing these studies. The fact that it is not news underscores that the question has been addressed going back a long time. That means it seems to be important to some people.
You want a comparable group, compare Japanese in Japan to Japanese in the USA. When Japanese people come to the USA they gain weight. So what has caused that? In what ways can Americans have food more like those foods widely available in Japan?
Anyway, I said a lot in my OP, please read before commenting. I was asking for thoughts about whether anybody thought the small nutrient dense foods might have anything to do with the difference. Has anybody else felt more satisfied with small foods compared to big foods at the same nutritional quotas?
Edit: I see it is a rhetorical question (why comparing). Then the apricot vs. peach thing is also like asking why compare those. The reason for comparing one food to another, should be considered another rhetorical question too. But you seem to be missing the obvious on that. You might compare two different foods to know for example how they might differ in calories or nutrients.0 -
Not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but a lot of Asian countries don't really make clothes for an average sized woman. I am now a size US size 6-8, but when I was a size US 10-12, it was close to impossible to walk into a shop and find something that would fit.
Also, in Asian counties, it is completely ok to tell someone that they are fat. It is kind of like a greeting to them. So, along with being told your fat, and not being able to fit into any clothes, this is usually enough motivation to stay thin.
Also, having been to many locals homes for dinner, they don't normally eat rice at night with their meal. A lot of them will eat rice during breakfast or lunch, and they eat a lot of vegies for dinner. So, this too could be the reason they don't put on weight.0 -
From personal experience, when my family and I first stepped onto Canada from Singapore, it was 10pm local time and we were famished. The nearest restaurant was Boston Pizza. Naturally, I ordered a large roasted pork back ribs along with the fries, etc. I ordered a large because back in Singapore, I would have ordered a large. My family and my eyes widened when the waitress served us our individual large dishes. We were so shocked. The portion size was at least 3 times what "large" back home was.
Similarly, the first time I ordered a regular (I learnt from prior experience) teriyaki chicken and beef meal from Edo Japan (another local restaurant), I still couldn't finish it. It was just too big.
Overtime, I got used to the portion sizes, and over time, our homemade meal portions just got bigger and bigger as well. And now, I can easily finish (and still feel hungry) the formerly mentioned dishes. Of course, overtime, I got heavier and heavier as well. (20 kg in about 7 years!)
So yes, I totally agree, the portion sizes in the West are relatively larger than it is in Asia (at least from the various south east asian places I have been to and lived in anyway).0 -
Yes the societal pressures do work toward getting people to restrict calories. Especially there are pressures on women to remain thin. So the big beautiful woman complex in the USA and a reduced acceptance of being critical of being obese compared to the opposite attitude in Japan might contribute significantly to that 200 average calorie difference. But it does not quite ring true for me because I have known thin Japanese immigrants who did not like criticism of people based on their weight. And the clothing stores are going to sell according to supply and demand. There are a number of heavy older ladies getting their clothing from somewhere.
My wife and I came to the USA from KL a little over 2 years ago. I have put on over 10Kg in that time and I had put on a few Kg in KL before coming to the USA by going to a lot of Western establishments like Outback Steakhouse and such once I began to tire of the Malaysian fare.0 -
You don't walk around with food or drinks in Japan. So if you snack it's a small portion that you eat or drink while standing by the vending machine and throw the can or package away right there. Food portions are smaller and there is societal pressure to watch weight -- companies are often fined for overweight employees so the companies encourage better health.0
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Well, in my country, fast food isn't as cheap as in USA. Here, pizza costs 6-10Lt in the supermarkets, so you could imagine, how would it look like, if it would cost (I'm talking about small-medium size) 6-10$ and one 'Cheeseburger' ~3Lt (imagine 3$). Plus, people are more willing to prepare food and eat at home, than to take food out or eat at the cafe, because it's cheaper than fast food and more filling. Fast food isn't significant in our lives and most people don't recognise it as healthy and filling meal, so that's good.
I guess the same stands for Japan, most European and other Asian countries. 0 -
I'm from Hong Kong and the portion sizes are smaller here. There are some American chain restaurants here that have "Beware: we serve American portion sizes here" on the menu, so people would know to order less and share.
I think the larger portion might be due to the physical space that the US has. I have lived in Los Angeles for 4 years, and EVERYTHING seem to be much bigger there. E.g. roads are wider, cars are bigger, supermarket aisles are wider, etc. and of course portion sizes of a meal would be much larger (which is great coz I get the take half home and have it for lunch the next day, $$ saved yay)
And regarding Japan, I have visited a few times (only Tokyo, Osaka and Kyoto) and I was also quite shocked by how different the TRADITIONAL food types and portion sizes are, compared to what the MODERN people eat due to convenience. "Ordinary" people there on a daily basis don't eat that healthy actually, lots of fast food and fried stuff surprisingly. I think the statistics show it too, as the obesity rate is on the rise there.0 -
Chop sticks also help to slow down your eating, you can't shovel food into your mouth like you can with a fork- slower eating = more satisfied with less food.
I ate everything with chopsticks for about a year and I lost quite a lot of weight.0 -
I've read two books that may be of interest to you. French women don't get fat. And, Japanese women don't get fat. I liked the first better, but consider both worth the read. Of course, the principle is the same as Michael Pollan's; Eat food, not too much, mostly plants. They also eat way slower. I've noticed I always eat less when out with friends because I'm so busy talking I realize I'm not hungry any more before I finish my food. Here, many people eat everything quick and get full. You are never supposed to be stuffed full. Only, no longer hungry. I try to eat slow and stop when I'm not hungry anymore.
Imho, most americans were not taught to eat properly. Whereas french and japanese children are taught that from a young age.0 -
Touching on food costs possibly similar to Lithuania: Having one of the most devalued currencies I have ever personally used second only to Indonesia, in Hungary I understand families consider the birthday party at McDonald's to be quite an expense requiring some financial budgeting. I go make my order and can see the envy of the parents with kids jumping all about. I could almost double my order at the same price as in the USA.
Yes, everything is bigger in the USA. I am still working on the same bottle of shampoo that I bought over two years ago. I keep a nearly military style cut though. Is it that things are bigger in the USA because of more space on the supply side? Or is it a more dynamic response to demand forces in the USA? It seems to me the size of your food storage warehouse does not matter as much as what your customers want. Thanks for the thoughts, I am getting somewhere here. I cannot get over these huge sizes; but wait there's more add extra 50% free, and a discount, but wait there's more another junior size wrapped up with it, now how much would you pay?
Oh yes eating with chopsticks does make a difference. I use them a lot. It is really clumsy eating some foods without chopsticks. I wonder if using a shrimp fork and teaspoon for meals would accomplish the same. Making a mental note to take smaller bites would of course be the simplest solution. I have to remember that one.
I'm going to start with the book on French women first since you recommend it more highly. Thanks, that can really help.0 -
I'm French and yes portions are much smaller over there. But you can't bring leftovers home either. I think mostly people don't use convenience food as much though... yeah they had instant potatoes, but none of that hamburger helper junk and whatnot... people cook from scratch more, and food is healthier (for example, croissants are made with butter and not oil).
Well, that was 10 years ago, I'm sure it's worse now.0 -
Im no expert, but I read somewhere about the Japanese culture - that the ideal Japanese girl physical shape was tiny. Meaning thin/slim. So it might be a cultural thing that prevents them from allowing themslevers to get overweight.. And even if they feel they are overweight, it would look very skinny compared to american diet.
Funny that they eat rice a lot and noodles, and this doesn't necessarily make them fat, meanwhile some americans are afraid to eat rice and noodles, citing the carbo thing.
they may just have better things to do than sit around and eat. Also I read that they work a lot, maybe they are busy with other activities other than eating.
I said all the above to say this - it may be just differences in habits/culture. For one thing, some Americans eat for recreational purposes and for emotional issues. not just nutrition. Hey we even go celebrate "Pizza night - all you can eat". I dont know if Japanese have such a celebration.
I know there are women who are considered "big and beautiful" and "fat and sassy" and "thick" and "baby got back" these all mean fat is glorified.
I dont think the Japanese believe in glorifying fat and glorifying eating like we do in america.0 -
I'd guess it has a lot to do with economic conditions. America has the opportunity to be a gluttonous nation for the moment, in all regards, because we're still floating checks. It would be interesting to see how we'd compare to another nation with a more similar economic system. I think it has a lot more to do with the cost of food and the cost of living in general.0
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Keep in mind that Japan is a seriously wealthy country with much purchasing power.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Japan
"The economy of Japan is the third largest in the world by nominal GDP and fourth largest by Purchasing power parity and is the world's second largest developed economy."0 -
It depends on how you define "wealth". In America, we have a large perceived amount of "wealth" created through IOU's, and therefore we do a lot of speculative buying. We do not directly feel the costs for the items we purchase (milk, meat, cars, houses, oil, etc). Therefore I believe it is easier for us to be gluttonous and over spend on items in comparison to other nations.
If it was a portion thing, or cultural thing, those who visit, study in, or move to the US, would not necessarily conform to our habits so quickly. Our economy allows for speculation and over spending, therefore people do it. To make a more apt comparison, I believe you would have to find an economy that performs much closer to ours. It's like comparing an apple to half an orange.0 -
As for the mega branches, it is my understanding that the portion sizes at a mega branch are still smaller than a comparable super-size or double-burger option in the USA.
Nope. A MacDonald's Mega Mac in Japan is a double big mac, that clocks in at about 750 calories. The mega potato is two large fries in one box, clocking in at over 1000 calories.
Typical convenience foods from convenience stores is calorific and typically heavily carb-based (breads, cakes, ramen noodles, large bags of potato chips, cookies, chocolate). If everyone in Japan really ate like tourists eat, i.e traditional Japanese meals all day every day, then there would be less of a rising problem in this country. But preparing that traditional food is a painstaking/expensive process. Coupled with long hours, a declining marriage rate and the cheapness and availability of fast and convenience food, this is not viable in the majority of cases.
Japanese women don't get fat because of peer pressure. If they see the scale creep up over 50-55kg, they stop eating. I've never seen a "fit" woman here in my day-to-day life. Women here are very skinny with very little muscle.
When I was first in Japan to study, I told friends of mine I was eating healthily because I wanted to lose weight, and they started showing me a bunch of diet articles recommending 600-700 calories a day, diuretic teas, bath salts to put in boiling hot baths to "sweat out the fat", cutting out rice etc etc. It's infuriating.0 -
As for the mega branches, it is my understanding that the portion sizes at a mega branch are still smaller than a comparable super-size or double-burger option in the USA.
Nope. A MacDonald's Mega Mac in Japan is a double big mac, that clocks in at about 750 calories. The mega potato is two large fries in one box, clocking in at over 1000 calories.
Typical convenience foods from convenience stores is calorific and typically heavily carb-based (breads, cakes, ramen noodles, large bags of potato chips, cookies, chocolate). If everyone in Japan really ate like tourists eat, i.e traditional Japanese meals all day every day, then there would be less of a rising problem in this country. But preparing that traditional food is a painstaking/expensive process. Coupled with long hours, a declining marriage rate and the cheapness and availability of fast and convenience food, this is not viable in the majority of cases.
Japanese women don't get fat because of peer pressure. If they see the scale creep up over 50-55kg, they stop eating. I've never seen a "fit" woman here in my day-to-day life. Women here are very skinny with very little muscle.
When I was first in Japan to study, I told friends of mine I was eating healthily because I wanted to lose weight, and they started showing me a bunch of diet articles recommending 600-700 calories a day, diuretic teas, bath salts to put in boiling hot baths to "sweat out the fat", cutting out rice etc etc. It's infuriating.
Christ, I'm glad I'm not Japanese. They might be at an acceptable BMI, but they sure don't sound very healthy. (Especially the women) Cultural pressure can only go so far before it's harmful.0 -
What I have learned from traveling to many countries, is that it is not always portion that is answer. It is the spacing a time and conversation with food that makes ppl eat less. This longer meal time allows you to let your body tell you when you have had enough food.0
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From what I have seen in Asia, the "cultural pressure" that has been referred to is more like helpful observations from other women about a woman that is gaining weight. It is not so much a pressure to conform, but more like a friendly reminder, from someone who cares, so that a woman would not have overweight problems causing her to miss out on marriage, relationships, jobs, etc.
In France you could have an 11-course meal with plenty of time for chit-chat. About the time that meal is over, it would be time to start the next meal. Simply having more time to eat is not necessarily going to mean eating less. Though I get the meaning that less hurried eating does generally lead to less consumption.
I think I may have answered my own question from the OP. I had tried to separate the higher level of exercise of Japanese people from Americans and then concentrate only on why would Japanese choose to consume fewer calories on average. I was wondering why would Japanese be satisfied with eating less. What might make Japanese less hungry? I neglected the possibility that exercise itself can have an effect on appetite. Some studies do suggest that exercise does reduce appetite at least during the exercise period.0
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