Alright, America. Let's Start Taxing Junk Food.
bellinachuchina
Posts: 498 Member
I was reading The Angry Pharmacist blog (http://www.theangrypharmacist.com/archives/2010/07/why-help-those-who-refuse-to-help-themselves.html#comment-10123), and found one of the responses by a Dr. of 20 years, to be very true & inspiring!
Here's what he had to say :
"There are studies that show (yes, there are, and no, I’m not looking them up for you) poor areas have lower access to healthy food and more access to cheap, fast food. I think everyone would benefit by making crap food more expensive. I’m not a liberal, or a democrat, but I would like to see taxes on junk food, soda, etc. Increasing taxes on cigs did make use go down (another study I’m not looking up). Add another tax for salt levels above a certain point/percentage and just watch packaged food and fast food companies lower the salt content of what they sell to avoid their consumers forgoing it altogether because it now costs more."
That would be great! Even to go the next step & lowering the cost of healthy and natural foods, imagine what it would do for our country's obesity problem! Thought I'd share
Keep up the awesome work, MFP:flowerforyou:
Here's what he had to say :
"There are studies that show (yes, there are, and no, I’m not looking them up for you) poor areas have lower access to healthy food and more access to cheap, fast food. I think everyone would benefit by making crap food more expensive. I’m not a liberal, or a democrat, but I would like to see taxes on junk food, soda, etc. Increasing taxes on cigs did make use go down (another study I’m not looking up). Add another tax for salt levels above a certain point/percentage and just watch packaged food and fast food companies lower the salt content of what they sell to avoid their consumers forgoing it altogether because it now costs more."
That would be great! Even to go the next step & lowering the cost of healthy and natural foods, imagine what it would do for our country's obesity problem! Thought I'd share
Keep up the awesome work, MFP:flowerforyou: 0
Replies
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I *LOVE* that blog! Its so brutally honest, its refreshing to see someone not at all in any way afraid of saying something that may offend someone else, just says whats on his mind and if it offends you, well, thats on YOU....I love it
and I agree, I think SOMETHING needs to be done about the situation. I like the idea of regulating how much salt can be put in such products, then companies will certainly be sure to lower levels in order to still be able to sell and make money, because it is all about money.0 -
Great topic. Although I think it would be even better to make healthier food less expensive. Fast food is cheap, let's be honest. When I'm out running around and I think, "Hmmm... I want a smoothie" I'm paying close to $5 for that smoothie (if I go to Smoothie King and that's for a small!!!). Even at Jack in the box, a regular smoothie is like $3 but you can get a whole meal off the $1 menu for that same amount.
I love MorningStar Farms products but they are so expensive compared to other not so healthy frozen food. It's ridiculous!0 -
How about first build access to healthy affordable food in poor areas before taxing them to death. Or better yet, start taxing the companies to death that are producing the crap food.
I was very poor a couple years ago, and I lived off of 89 cent burritos from taco bell and the free pizza I got at work (when I was lucky to get a freebie). Sad, but true. It really sucks to have to go through that.
Crap food is already expensive (minus the dollar menus), and they have already enacted a tax on soda (sweet beverage tax).0 -
* If poor people, in poorer neighbourhoods, were charged more for their fast food - they would still buy fast food. They're not suddenly going to decide to eat grilled chicken and salad. The net outcome would be the poorer people, becoming poorer. The issue is one of education, not accessibility or pricing.
* Higher tax and duty rates on petrol (gas) has not curbed peoples use of their private vehicles
* Higher taxes on travel (airfare especially) has not curbed the number of flights
* Higher tax rates on alcohol has not curbed consumption
I'm waiting for a response along the lines of "well, people are travelling less!" etc. That's an issue of global recession, not of actual fare prices. Pre-recession the travel industry was booming, and taxes and surcharges were at an all time high.0 -
How about first build access to healthy affordable food in poor areas before taxing them to death. Or better yet, start taxing the companies to death that are producing the crap food.
Agreed, healthy and affordable food is hard to find anywhere, let alone in low-income areas, what can be done about it? An economical healthy fast food restaurant would be great. And I'm all for taxing the companies
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Sorry, I've got a problem using tax code for behavior modification as defined by politicians. I want to lose weight for my own reasons, I don't need some politician punishing me for not adhering to his goals.0
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I think it's a great idea, personally. I'd rather pay extra for junk food than for health care as a direct result of too much junk food.0
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Miss penny hit the nail on the head. If the Tax revenue is used for health care then it is a good thing. Obesity costs $billions a year in health care and it is a totally preventable issue. (I am currently obese, BMI of 31 and admit that it is totally my fault).
Taxing Cigarettes, Alcohol and any other things that are proven to be a health hazard is a good thing as long as the revenue goes back into health care.0 -
I think they should make healthy food CHEAPER instead! It's EXPENSIVE to eat right!0
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Im guessing you guys live in the US....so is fruit and veg more expensive than junk food? It may take more efffort to make a meal out of it,but its like a £1 over here for a bag of veg,and you can make a meal for a family (a a few meals flor a single person) with a nice hearty healthy soup. Cerrtain fruits are quite pricey, as are certain pre packaged veg, but markets have great deals.0
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Part of me agrees, but then, the larger part of me doesn't. Penn and Teller did an episode of their show Bull****! on hating fast food, and one of the points one of their guests pointed out was that many of the people who eat fast food a lot of the time are lower income. Taxing fast food won't make healthy food any cheaper, it will just make it harder to make ends meet. The cost of a lot of good food is made artificially high by government subsidies, and if those were done away with, the food that people should be eating would also be the food they could afford.
PS. I work in fast food, and you wouldn't believe the amount of people who come through my drive through with kids unbuckled, small children out of their car seats, beer in their cup holders, smoking a blunt (usually only one or two of these at a time), and any other illegal and dangerous activity they can do in a car. If you really want fast food companies to do something good for the communities they're in- make us report drunk drivers and everything else we see to law enforcement!0 -
I would also argue that it is not as expensive as people think to eat healthy! Not sure on the prices in the states, but I hear it in OZ aswell and I put this comparison forward.
To feed a family of 4 for dinner.
macdonalds would be around $24 (4 meal deals at $5.95 each)
Or you could buy 500g chicken breast for $7 ($14/kg)
Some white rice for about $2
Packet of frozen stir fry vegies $4
And some stir fry sauces from the pantry say $2 becasue you only use a small amount out of a large bottle/jar (soy and garlic etc)
So now you have fed a family of four a healthy meal and quite filling for $15. $9 cheaper than macca's.
So I do not agree with the people saying that healthy eating is expensive! It just takes a little bit of education and effort.0 -
I would also argue that it is not as expensive as people think to eat healthy! Not sure on the prices in the states, but I hear it in OZ aswell and I put this comparison forward.
To feed a family of 4 for dinner.
macdonalds would be around $24 (4 meal deals at $5.95 each)
Or you could buy 500g chicken breast for $7 ($14/kg)
Some white rice for about $2
Packet of frozen stir fry vegies $4
And some stir fry sauces from the pantry say $2 becasue you only use a small amount out of a large bottle/jar (soy and garlic etc)
So now you have fed a family of four a healthy meal and quite filling for $15. $9 cheaper than macca's.
So I do not agree with the people saying that healthy eating is expensive! It just takes a little bit of education and effort.
Education? O.K, Can you explain why low fat versions of everything are NEVER on sale? Baked lays vs 99 cent UTZ chips,
The price of ground beef vs ground turkey, Im not evern going to bring up the price of fish. And that $24 McDonalds meal feeds a family of 4, while a healthy sushi dinner cost $24 a person! Crystal light compared to koolaid, Organic ANYTHING is also more expensive. I get what you are sayuing...it CAN be done, but to I am middle class, and I'm pretty much limited to turkey burgers and chicken, once in awhile I can have some fish.0 -
Im guessing you guys live in the US....so is fruit and veg more expensive than junk food? It may take more efffort to make a meal out of it,but its like a £1 over here for a bag of veg,and you can make a meal for a family (a a few meals flor a single person) with a nice hearty healthy soup. Cerrtain fruits are quite pricey, as are certain pre packaged veg, but markets have great deals.
Some fruit is cheap, but I have spent $6 on grapes before...when I looked at the receipt, I was fuming! Theres a lot of cheap crappy junk food out there.0 -
I agree with several posters here that taxing junk food will only make things harder for poor people.
I disagree strongly, though, that healthy food has to be more expensive than fast food. I am on a tight budget, and there's absolutely no way that I could afford to feed the 4 adults in my household (I have two full-board lodgers) on fast food. Instead, we have a home-cooked meal just about every night made from scratch. It is probably more time consuming than going through a drive-thru but it is most certainly cheaper. I do the kind of shopping that would have caused an old boyfriend to say, after the food was unpacked, 'but there's nothing to eat!'. What he meant was that I only buy ingredients, not quick, shove into the oven/microwave meals.
It takes more effort and a bit more expertise to properly cook, though, which is why education is important. Another thing about which people need to be educated is buying in-season food -- that's why sometimes grapes are just ridiculously priced, if they've been flown halfway around the world rather than coming from your own country. I also want to point out that another way of stretching your food dollar/pound/euro is to reduce the amount of meat per person. That's why I make a lot more casseroles instead of having big slabs of meat on the plate.0 -
I agree with many of the other posters, taxing the fast food is not the way to do it. I still have a hard time understanding how a fast food restraunt can make a burger using the same ingredients I use at home and have it come out 300+ calories higher than the home cooked one! The home cooked one usually has more meat too!
It has been a while since high school, but didn't people come to America to avoid the high taxes elsewhere?? I seem to remember a thing called the Boston Tea Party...0 -
My husband and I were just talking about this last night. We were at Wal Mart doing a cost comparison (and getting me a new scale!), and a small container of Naked Juice was around $5 while a gallon of Sunny D was $2. That is why people with low incomes, or even moderate incomes (like we have) have a hard time eating healthy. It's just SO expensive! I'd love to be able to go out each week to Whole Foods and grocery shop there, but it's not possible. I think that if junk cost more, people would buy it less, and in turn be more healthy. Why do you think the US is the fattest nation in the world? Because of the food that's available to us.0
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My two cents.........
The solution is not to tax fast food at the consumer level, it's to stop subsidizing the big food companies and huge farming operations. It's those government subsidies from the outset that allow the fast food companies to charge $1 for a burger and for processed food meals to be cheaper than cooking your own.
If just half of those subsidies were applied to fruits and vegetables, healthy whole grains and local meat/fish, THEY would become the new cheap option.
If on top of that, there were financial incentives for growing & buying locally and in season it would completely change this country.
The net result, in theory and over time would be more expensive fast food, and hopefully less of it, but very cheap fruits and veggies.
It SHOULD be cheaper for you to buy fresh organic veggies and traditionally raised chicken or beef products to make a home cooked dinner than to buy a Mcdonalds meal or a microwave meal, I WISH that were the case today.
Having lived in low income areas for about 7 years in my life I know there is more to this than pricing, it's a whole other huge and complicated subject that I'll not be getting into now.0 -
My two cents.........
The solution is not to tax fast food at the consumer level, it's to stop subsidizing the big food companies and huge farming operations. It's those government subsidies from the outset that allow the fast food companies to charge $1 for a burger and for processed food meals to be cheaper than cooking your own.
If just half of those subsidies were applied to fruits and vegetables, healthy whole grains and local meat/fish, THEY would become the new cheap option.
If on top of that, there were financial incentives for growing & buying locally and in season it would completely change this country.
The net result, in theory and over time would be more expensive fast food, and hopefully less of it, but very cheap fruits and veggies.
It SHOULD be cheaper for you to buy fresh organic veggies and traditionally raised chicken or beef products to make a home cooked dinner than to buy a Mcdonalds meal or a microwave meal, I WISH that were the case today.
Having lived in low income areas for about 7 years in my life I know there is more to this than pricing, it's a whole other huge and complicated subject that I'll not be getting into now.
Very well said!0 -
Not jumping into the debate but I have to voice my love for TAP! The Angry Pharmacist rocks my world. 0
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I have always thought that the fresh good for you/healthy foods should be cheaper and more available for everyone to consume. I say bring back the cooking classes in schools to teach kids/ and offer more adult classes on how to cook a meal from scratch instead of reaching for the easy junkfood that is done in 2 minutes in the microwave. In my area they have cooking classes in several locations but the prices for these classes are outrageous--I know the teachers need to make $$ but this also limits people attending. Unfortunately most foods that people purchase is cheaply made and fake--just take a look and you will be shocked how many different things have High fructose corn syrup in them--the government controlls the corn/farmers and its CHEAP to use corn/byproducts in regular foods, driving the cost of junk food way down. Fresh foods don't have this ingredient, take time to grow and harvest and farmers/pickers need to get paid (not that most get a lot anyway...but thats another rant!)
When I moved out of my parents home and on my own I lived off of the cheap stuff as much as possible--its all I could afford. Over the years that has slightly changed as well as my eating habits. Going out to a restaurant has become a special occasion/or 1x a month ordeal since the cost of dinner for 2 adults at a nice restaurant can also buy me a weeks worth of groceries or close to it!
I started going to my local farmers market--their prices on veggies and fruits are comprable (sometimes cheaper) to those in the store but I know that they are fresh and not been sitting in a truck for days! I price comparison shop all the time. For grocery stores I look for sales on meats, (most sales are only available for junk) shop at Aldi for most things and its a lot cheaper than other grocery stores. They do not have organics, but they do have a good selection of produce.
I am currently looking into local farms to get eggs and meats from, my parents go to an Amish farm in WI and get great stuff for real cheap-definitly a lot cheaper than the stores and its better for you!
I don't disgree with taxing junk foods, but if they do that they NEED to FIRST make fresh healthy foods more available for everyone not just the wealthy!0 -
Part of me agrees, but then, the larger part of me doesn't. Penn and Teller did an episode of their show Bull****! on hating fast food, and one of the points one of their guests pointed out was that many of the people who eat fast food a lot of the time are lower income. Taxing fast food won't make healthy food any cheaper, it will just make it harder to make ends meet. The cost of a lot of good food is made artificially high by government subsidies, and if those were done away with, the food that people should be eating would also be the food they could afford.
PS. I work in fast food, and you wouldn't believe the amount of people who come through my drive through with kids unbuckled, small children out of their car seats, beer in their cup holders, smoking a blunt (usually only one or two of these at a time), and any other illegal and dangerous activity they can do in a car. If you really want fast food companies to do something good for the communities they're in- make us report drunk drivers and everything else we see to law enforcement!
So, you DONT report these things when you see them? Just take the tag number as they drive off and call it in! You can even wait till break time or end of shift, but there is no way id witness someone with a young child out of the carseat and not report that, or someone drinking alcohol behind the wheel and not call that in, he could drive off and kill someone in an accident
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I would also argue that it is not as expensive as people think to eat healthy! Not sure on the prices in the states, but I hear it in OZ aswell and I put this comparison forward.
To feed a family of 4 for dinner.
macdonalds would be around $24 (4 meal deals at $5.95 each)
Or you could buy 500g chicken breast for $7 ($14/kg)
Some white rice for about $2
Packet of frozen stir fry vegies $4
And some stir fry sauces from the pantry say $2 becasue you only use a small amount out of a large bottle/jar (soy and garlic etc)
So now you have fed a family of four a healthy meal and quite filling for $15. $9 cheaper than macca's.
So I do not agree with the people saying that healthy eating is expensive! It just takes a little bit of education and effort.
Education? O.K, Can you explain why low fat versions of everything are NEVER on sale? Baked lays vs 99 cent UTZ chips,
The price of ground beef vs ground turkey, Im not evern going to bring up the price of fish. And that $24 McDonalds meal feeds a family of 4, while a healthy sushi dinner cost $24 a person! Crystal light compared to koolaid, Organic ANYTHING is also more expensive. I get what you are sayuing...it CAN be done, but to I am middle class, and I'm pretty much limited to turkey burgers and chicken, once in awhile I can have some fish.
Actually, I no longer buy ground beef as ive found that ground turkey is MUCH cheaper in my area and also much more healthy...im in the State of Virginia, so I dont know how it is elsewhere, and I know that the prices used to be much different but lately ive been getting ground turkey for very good prices0 -
Part of me agrees, but then, the larger part of me doesn't. Penn and Teller did an episode of their show Bull****! on hating fast food, and one of the points one of their guests pointed out was that many of the people who eat fast food a lot of the time are lower income. Taxing fast food won't make healthy food any cheaper, it will just make it harder to make ends meet. The cost of a lot of good food is made artificially high by government subsidies, and if those were done away with, the food that people should be eating would also be the food they could afford.
PS. I work in fast food, and you wouldn't believe the amount of people who come through my drive through with kids unbuckled, small children out of their car seats, beer in their cup holders, smoking a blunt (usually only one or two of these at a time), and any other illegal and dangerous activity they can do in a car. If you really want fast food companies to do something good for the communities they're in- make us report drunk drivers and everything else we see to law enforcement!
So, you DONT report these things when you see them? Just take the tag number as they drive off and call it in! You can even wait till break time or end of shift, but there is no way id witness someone with a young child out of the carseat and not report that, or someone drinking alcohol behind the wheel and not call that in, he could drive off and kill someone in an accident
Truth is when its every other car: no. If just one store does that, they loose business and go under. Unless all of the competing businesses are required to report drivers doing that, the policy will stay at eyerolls and "can-you-believe-that?!!" People won't quit going to all fast food location because of public policy. But they will quit going to one store or brand because of that stores policy. I hate to make it about the money, but I like being able to take care of my family, and I need a job to do that.0 -
First I don't believe in putting a tax on junk food. I can' stand stand how that seems to be an answer for everything. Tax on cigarettes, fine do you know how much the government makes off of that one tax? I dare to say it will be the same for a junk food tax. Then you have to think who is going to decide what is junk food and what is not. I know you may not want to hear this but junk food is not unhealthy in moderation. Also price is not the only reason low income families are drawn to fast food. In my and my husbands case when we were first married and struggling to make it, we had two jobs each, and I am sorry after working 13-14 hours a day I did not want to come home and cook! Our friends who were in the same position all did the same. I am sorry but all this would do is make the poor poorer, if you have an income high enough to where this would not effect you at all, good for you, but alot of people don't and they do what they can to put food in their bellies, stop and think about how something like this will effect everone.0
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I'm not sure I agree with taxing junk foods. There was a study done in the Tribune (a major newspaper in Chicago) about the access of fruits and veggies and healthy foods in the city. Most lower-income areas had really poor access, hardly any grocery stores, and mostly had convenience stores and 7/11's. So it really is about an availability thing.
I agree education is part of it as well. And the pp who talked about have "Home Ec" classes back in schools, that's a really good idea. It's about teaching kids how to take care of themselves, how is that ever a bad thing?
Also the farm subsidies in this country are ridiculous, I agree the smaller family owned operations need the subsidies, but the huge factory farms do not.
And while we're a medium income family, I can never afford to shop at Whole Foods, or really even buy anything organic at any grocery store. I do most of our shopping at Aldi. They have really low prices, and if you shop the same day their produce is delivered you can get some great produce on sale too.0 -
While I agree that education is a big step toward healthy eating, access is another big issue. My husband works at a Walgreens that is in a very low income neighborhood. Many of the people living there have to walk everywhere, and in walking distance are several fast food joints (and the Walgreens) but there isn't a grocery store to be found. 6 different booze shops, not one Pick n Save.
There is public transportation, but I can see why it is much easier to get mac & cheese at Walgreens or to swing through Burger King's drive thru than to bus to a grocery store, buy things that (correctly or not) are viewed to be more expensive, and require knowledge and time to cook/make them.
I'm not entirely against taxing junk food, but I think the tax should be for the company making it, not the people buying it.0 -
How about first build access to healthy affordable food in poor areas before taxing them to death. Or better yet, start taxing the companies to death that are producing the crap food.
I was very poor a couple years ago, and I lived off of 89 cent burritos from taco bell and the free pizza I got at work (when I was lucky to get a freebie). Sad, but true. It really sucks to have to go through that.
Crap food is already expensive (minus the dollar menus), and they have already enacted a tax on soda (sweet beverage tax).
This.
As someone else stated... it is easy to walk to fast food restaurants in poor neighborhoods. If you are lucky, there might be a corner store and it you are really lucky it might have some fresh meat and veggies... but typically not. This is a much larger problem than poor people just choosing to eat junk food.
I don't know what I would do without Aldi's either... produce is about 1/2 the price of what I'd have to pay at a larger chain store and ground turkey is much cheaper as well (and I am fortunate that I have a car and my pick of grocery stores within 5 miles of my house... I've met many, many people who don't have that luxury).
I'd probably vote against a junk food tax, given the option.0 -
First I don't believe in putting a tax on junk food. I can' stand stand how that seems to be an answer for everything. Tax on cigarettes, fine do you know how much the government makes off of that one tax? I dare to say it will be the same for a junk food tax. Then you have to think who is going to decide what is junk food and what is not. I know you may not want to hear this but junk food is not unhealthy in moderation. Also price is not the only reason low income families are drawn to fast food. In my and my husbands case when we were first married and struggling to make it, we had two jobs each, and I am sorry after working 13-14 hours a day I did not want to come home and cook! Our friends who were in the same position all did the same. I am sorry but all this would do is make the poor poorer, if you have an income high enough to where this would not effect you at all, good for you, but alot of people don't and they do what they can to put food in their bellies, stop and think about how something like this will effect everone.
I was just gonna bring that up. Most people work ...alot! We don't have time to make everything from scratch, and cook all day. trust me, wish I did have the time, but its a lot easier to cook something quick like mac and cheese instead of homemade mashed poatoes from scratch! Of course it's not healthy, but the food companies are making it more difficult for us to eat right.0 -
Yes!! I live in a upper class area, and whole foods is the only really close store to me. Its rediculously priced!!!!! There were no Whole Foods in my old neighborhood in Queens, they would go out of business. Pathmark is thriving though! I just don't understand why people pay so much more for basically the same thing.My husband and I were just talking about this last night. We were at Wal Mart doing a cost comparison (and getting me a new scale!), and a small container of Naked Juice was around $5 while a gallon of Sunny D was $2. That is why people with low incomes, or even moderate incomes (like we have) have a hard time eating healthy. It's just SO expensive! I'd love to be able to go out each week to Whole Foods and grocery shop there, but it's not possible. I think that if junk cost more, people would buy it less, and in turn be more healthy. Why do you think the US is the fattest nation in the world? Because of the food that's available to us.0
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