Need a grammar teacher for this one.

motown13
motown13 Posts: 688 Member
in Chit-Chat
My kids like to say "these ones" and "those ones", an awful lot. I don't think it is grammatically correct, but they say that teachers at school say it all the time. I told them that that doesn't necessarily make it correct.

Here is a sample of what they might say..... " I like those ones over there"...

That is grammatically incorrect, isn't it?

Replies

  • susannamarie
    susannamarie Posts: 2,148 Member
    You're right.
  • legreene515
    legreene515 Posts: 276 Member
    How old are they? I'm not a grammar teacher, but I'm a writer. I would view this way of speaking as grammatically incorrect. You shouldn't put the word "ones" after these or those. There is no need for it, and in fact it is redundant as "these" and "those" implies the items you are referring to.
  • GiddyupTim
    GiddyupTim Posts: 2,819 Member
    Dunno. But, here is what one guy says:
    http://www.dailywritingtips.com/what-is-the-difference-between-these-and-those/

    But, what possessed you to ask the question on a fitness site?
  • Morninglory81
    Morninglory81 Posts: 1,190 Member
    Correct :
    I like those over there.
    Or
    I like the ones over there.
  • motown13
    motown13 Posts: 688 Member
    They just turned 12.

    We actually have a policy at home. If they say either one in front of me, they get a mark. When they get 5 marks, they have to write " It is not correct to say these ones or those ones." 25 times.

    The strange part about this to me is that they both finished the year on the distinguished honor roll, and both finished in the top 10 in their grade in Language Arts.
  • motown13
    motown13 Posts: 688 Member

    But, what possessed you to ask the question on a fitness site?

    Why not? There are smart people here, including hundreds of teachers, I am sure.
  • ScatteredThoughts
    ScatteredThoughts Posts: 3,562 Member

    But, what possessed you to ask the question on a fitness site?

    You do realize which forum section this is in, right? :smile:
  • jaksmom060567
    jaksmom060567 Posts: 26 Member
    Dunno. But, here is what one guy says:
    http://www.dailywritingtips.com/what-is-the-difference-between-these-and-those/

    But, what possessed you to ask the question on a fitness site?

    This is the chit-chat, fun and games Message board. She can ask it here. This message board doesn't have to be about fitness!!!!
  • sdesmond2
    sdesmond2 Posts: 14 Member
    I'm one of those "ones", teacher that is, and "those ones" is incorrect (unless they are working with number sense in math and they are breaking down numbers into place value.)

    Let them know that teachers can be wrong. We can learn as much from our students and parents as they can from us.

    Appreciate the post. I'm on summer break and I miss my students.
  • labeachgirl
    labeachgirl Posts: 158 Member
    It's acceptable in the UK, so I guess it depends whether you'll ding your kids for spelling color as colour or theater as theatre.
  • melindasuefritz
    melindasuefritz Posts: 3,509 Member
    These ones? Those ones?



    Eric writes:
    I was wondering if it is grammatically incorrect to use "these ones" or "those ones" when answering someone who just asked me a question like.. "which ones are done?" or "which of those still need to be wrapped?" It seems to me that if it's ok to say "this one" or "that one" that "these ones" and "those ones" would also be acceptable. I notice I use them more often when I am pointing at something and want to be very specific.

    The guys at work say that it is incorrect usage of grammar. Are they right?

    They're right, but I don't think I can offer a clear explanation.

    "These" is the plural of "this" and "those" is the plural of "that." It's perfectly OK to say "This one is mine; that one is yours."

    But when we go to the plural, the "ones" is understood: "These are mine; those are yours."

    Why this inconsistent usage? I wish I knew. English is full of rules, and half of them are broken.

    Afterthought: I've just realized that the problem is with the number. You can say "This one," and "These two." If the number is uncertain, you can use "ones" in certain ways:

    "Bring me four potatoes."
    "Which ones?" [particular potatoes from a larger group]
    "Those four in the bowl."
    "These four?"
    "No, they're too small. Try the ones in the cupboard." [the uncertain number of potatoes in the cupboard]
    "Are these OK?" [we know how many are wanted]
    "Those are perfect."


    Posted on May 04, 2006 at 08:46 PM | Permalink

    Reblog
  • melindasuefritz
    melindasuefritz Posts: 3,509 Member
    I I say both so
  • melindasuefritz
    melindasuefritz Posts: 3,509 Member
    I think you are correct
  • Joreanasaurous
    Joreanasaurous Posts: 1,384 Member
    They just turned 12.

    We actually have a policy at home. If they say either one in front of me, they get a mark. When they get 5 marks, they have to write " It is not correct to say these ones or those ones." 25 times.

    The strange part about this to me is that they both finished the year on the distinguished honor roll, and both finished in the top 10 in their grade in Language Arts.

    You punish your children for that? Your poor kids.
  • motown13
    motown13 Posts: 688 Member
    It's acceptable in the UK, so I guess it depends whether you'll ding your kids for spelling color as colour or theater as theatre.

    Well, I would "ding" them if they were just using that when writing for American English... however, if they were writing a story that was somehow about the U.K. or possibly writing a story about something European or Canadian, I would not, if it was used as a quote.

    My wife uses a lot of poor grammar, and I can't teach her any new tricks, as they say, but my kids are in their formative years, and I want them properly "formed", LOL.
  • grimm1974
    grimm1974 Posts: 337 Member
    'Those ones'? Everyone knows it should be 'them thar'.
  • haroon_awan
    haroon_awan Posts: 1,208 Member
    When I was in college, one of my English teachers was always differentiating between standard v. non-standard English, rather than correct v. incorrect English. His way of thinking about, teaching and learning a language is very useful (especially if it's a second language). So in your case, rather than being "incorrect", it's merely "non-standard" English. I wouldn't be too hard on them for using such phrases, but like you are doing, I would teach them the standard way of speaking. Writing lines is one way, if it works for them, then keep doing it!
  • nextrightthing
    nextrightthing Posts: 408 Member
    It's acceptable in the UK, so I guess it depends whether you'll ding your kids for spelling color as colour or theater as theatre.

    I write "colour" and theatre but, I would not say "those ones" :-)
  • motown13
    motown13 Posts: 688 Member
    They just turned 12.

    We actually have a policy at home. If they say either one in front of me, they get a mark. When they get 5 marks, they have to write " It is not correct to say these ones or those ones." 25 times.

    The strange part about this to me is that they both finished the year on the distinguished honor roll, and both finished in the top 10 in their grade in Language Arts.

    You punish your children for that? Your poor kids.

    Well, they were told about 10x each, and they still continued to do it, so yes, I do make them write that out 25x. If telling them that they are incorrect isn't fixing the matter, then I take it to the next step. HOWEVER, I also have a way for them to lose the "marks". If they catch themselves saying those ones, or these ones before they finish saying it, I take off TWO marks. Since we started this, only one of them has had to write it out, and only once. It seems to work. I would hardly call it a punishment. It takes them all of 3 minutes to do. Maybe less.
  • AlongCame_Molly
    AlongCame_Molly Posts: 2,835 Member
    How old are they? I'm not a grammar teacher, but I'm a writer. I would view this way of speaking as grammatically incorrect. You shouldn't put the word "ones" after these or those. There is no need for it, and in fact it is redundant as "these" and "those" implies the items you are referring to.

    Yup. The word "ones" are superfluous in this case and would be better to be omitted.
  • Joreanasaurous
    Joreanasaurous Posts: 1,384 Member
    They just turned 12.

    We actually have a policy at home. If they say either one in front of me, they get a mark. When they get 5 marks, they have to write " It is not correct to say these ones or those ones." 25 times.

    The strange part about this to me is that they both finished the year on the distinguished honor roll, and both finished in the top 10 in their grade in Language Arts.

    You punish your children for that? Your poor kids.

    Well, they were told about 10x each, and they still continued to do it, so yes, I do make them write that out 25x. If telling them that they are incorrect isn't fixing the matter, then I take it to the next step. HOWEVER, I also have a way for them to lose the "marks". If they catch themselves saying those ones, or these ones before they finish saying it, I take off TWO marks. Since we started this, only one of them has had to write it out, and only once. It seems to work. I would hardly call it a punishment. It takes them all of 3 minutes to do. Maybe less.

    I'm almost scared to ask how you feel about wire hangers.
  • AlongCame_Molly
    AlongCame_Molly Posts: 2,835 Member
    They just turned 12.

    We actually have a policy at home. If they say either one in front of me, they get a mark. When they get 5 marks, they have to write " It is not correct to say these ones or those ones." 25 times.

    The strange part about this to me is that they both finished the year on the distinguished honor roll, and both finished in the top 10 in their grade in Language Arts.

    You punish your children for that? Your poor kids.

    Well, they were told about 10x each, and they still continued to do it, so yes, I do make them write that out 25x. If telling them that they are incorrect isn't fixing the matter, then I take it to the next step. HOWEVER, I also have a way for them to lose the "marks". If they catch themselves saying those ones, or these ones before they finish saying it, I take off TWO marks. Since we started this, only one of them has had to write it out, and only once. It seems to work. I would hardly call it a punishment. It takes them all of 3 minutes to do. Maybe less.

    What a great idea! I like to see parents take a more active role in their kids' educations. Good for you!
  • lorieric5037
    lorieric5037 Posts: 97
    They just turned 12.

    We actually have a policy at home. If they say either one in front of me, they get a mark. When they get 5 marks, they have to write " It is not correct to say these ones or those ones." 25 times.

    The strange part about this to me is that they both finished the year on the distinguished honor roll, and both finished in the top 10 in their grade in Language Arts.

    You punish your children for that? Your poor kids.

    Well, they were told about 10x each, and they still continued to do it, so yes, I do make them write that out 25x. If telling them that they are incorrect isn't fixing the matter, then I take it to the next step. HOWEVER, I also have a way for them to lose the "marks". If they catch themselves saying those ones, or these ones before they finish saying it, I take off TWO marks. Since we started this, only one of them has had to write it out, and only once. It seems to work. I would hardly call it a punishment. It takes them all of 3 minutes to do. Maybe less.

    This is not a punishment at all! Hats off to you for trying to help the younger generation learn how to spell & speak properly!
  • Lleldiranne
    Lleldiranne Posts: 5,516 Member
    It's not grammatically correct, but unfortunately, it's one of those phrases that has become common in American speech. It's like people saying "what it is, is …"

    I think the term for these kinds of phrases is colloquialisms. They are not officially, grammatically correct, and they shouldn't be used in writing (unless using it for style or speech in narrative writing), but they've made their way into speech. (And they drive many of us grammar freaks up the wall, lol)
  • srslybritt
    srslybritt Posts: 1,618 Member
    Is the word "ones" starting to lose meaning for anyone else? Yes, mom, you are (again) right. That is incorrect use of these/those. The "ones" is implied, as those (ha) words imply multiple of one thing. The only time you would need to differentiate is when you're speaking of a specific number of something.

    i.e.: "Will you bring me some towels?"
    "Which ones?" (someone else broke down why this was right)
    "Those four right there."
  • motown13
    motown13 Posts: 688 Member
    Well, I have never published anything, or even tried to, but I write a lot, and I am a stickler for grammar and proper enunciation.

    If we don't help educate our kids, who will? Nobody cares more about my kids than I do. As wonderful as most teachers are, at the end of the day, they likely are not thinking about my children and their grammar. I really love most teachers, but they aren't around 24 / 7. And they aren't the people who they will live with when they are adults and can't find a job because they don't speak properly. Any advantage you can give your children is a bonus. I'm not wealthy so I can't give them money, but I can make sure that they have solid education and proper speaking skills.

    ( I am the OP )
  • mustang289
    mustang289 Posts: 299 Member
    I'm almost scared to ask how you feel about wire hangers.

    What she is doing with her kids is perfectly fine...there is no abuse there, she is teaching them and using goals to reinforce behavior.
    On a side note, do you require a step ladder when dismounting your high horse?
  • Joreanasaurous
    Joreanasaurous Posts: 1,384 Member
    I'm almost scared to ask how you feel about wire hangers.

    What she is doing with her kids is perfectly fine...there is no abuse there, she is teaching them and using goals to reinforce behavior.
    On a side note, do you require a step ladder when dismounting your high horse?

    That I do. But I rarely leave it when judging total strangers online.
  • legreene515
    legreene515 Posts: 276 Member
    I'm almost scared to ask how you feel about wire hangers.

    What she is doing with her kids is perfectly fine...there is no abuse there, she is teaching them and using goals to reinforce behavior.
    On a side note, do you require a step ladder when dismounting your high horse?

    I agree with you. I think she's doing the right thing. Grammar is a LOST ART these days, with all the iPhones and texting. Our kids need to know how to use language correctly: it's part of total literacy.

    My kids are younger, but I do correct when they use incorrect grammar, and funnily enough my 8 year old corrected me the other day! I'm a writer (not published, but working on it), so like the OP grammar is important to me. My kids know this, as I'm sure the OP's kids know why the OP is doing it too.

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