stronglifts on a deficit

operation_cute
operation_cute Posts: 588 Member
in Fitness and Exercise
HI, I started doing the strong lifts program and I'm on a deficit (I'm right about 200 lbs so have a lot of weight to lose). I try to keep my protien up to a decent level and eat a protien snack before and directly after my workout. My question is if I'm on a deficit will I not see a lot progress in my strength? I know about "newbie gains" being a possibility, and I know that lifting is good to do deficit or not in order to maintain as much lean mass as possible. But with the strong lifts program its designed to progressively get stronger. The reason I'm asking is because I already stalled out on the over head press and I only had 50 lbs which is only the first step past the basic 45 lbs...I technically finished the sets but my form failed because my back was arching pretty badly to get the last set in :( Feeling pretty unaccomplished :( Is it just that the overhead press is harder to master? Or is it because I"m on a deficit and not able to progess?

Edit: I'm using my tdee and eating an even 1500-1600 calories per day (not eating back exercise cals because its included in my tdee)

Replies

  • rick_po
    rick_po Posts: 449 Member
    A lot of your strength gains won't be from muscle growth. You'll just get more coordinated and your body will become more efficient at the movement, allowing you move heavier weights with the same muscles. If you're just starting you've still got a lot of strength gain in you, even at a deficit.

    In my experience, overhead press is the slowest lift to make progress on. For one thing, it's everyone's weakest lift, so beginners get up to their max weight first. You'll probably get there on your rows next, then bench press.

    I would probably just stay at 50, and have a goal to finish it with good form on your next workout.

    You could drop back down to 45, concentrate on form for a workout or two, then take another stab at 50 with better form. Or even drop down to 20-pound dumbbells for a couple workouts. I think dumbbell presses are actually a harder exercise than barbell presses. Two 20-pound dumbbells isn't much easier than a 50-pound barbell.
  • operation_cute
    operation_cute Posts: 588 Member
    A lot of your strength gains won't be from muscle growth. You'll just get more coordinated and your body will become more efficient at the movement, allowing you move heavier weights with the same muscles. If you're just starting you've still got a lot of strength gain in you, even at a deficit.

    In my experience, overhead press is the slowest lift to make progress on. For one thing, it's everyone's weakest lift, so beginners get up to their max weight first. You'll probably get there on your rows next, then bench press.

    I would probably just stay at 50, and have a goal to finish it with good form on your next workout.

    You could drop back down to 45, concentrate on form for a workout or two, then take another stab at 50 with better form. Or even drop down to 20-pound dumbbells for a couple workouts. I think dumbbell presses are actually a harder exercise than barbell presses. Two 20-pound dumbbells isn't much easier than a 50-pound barbell.

    After My newbie gains, will I still be able to progress as far as strength?
  • rick_po
    rick_po Posts: 449 Member
    After My newbie gains, will I still be able to progress as far as strength?

    It's going to be hard to get much stronger once you squeeze out every drop of CNS improvement you can get. I've read people stop seeing much CNS gain after 2-3 months. I've worked with people on a deficit who got stronger for an entire year, but I suspect they weren't pushing themselves as hard as they could have.

    With a lot of weight to lose, I think you might be one of those lucky people who are able to gain a little muscle at the same time they lose fat. So don't give up hope for some hypertrophy improvements. I've read that hypertrophy gains usually peak after CNS gains start to stall, so you might have that to look forward to still.

    I've found some assistance lifts after your regular workout can help a little bit. I like incline bench presses and push presses, but there are all kinds of press variations you can do. You'll just be squeezing the last few percent of CNS gains this way, but at least t's something, right? Be careful not to over-do your assistance work. It's easy to end up over-training, especially if you're dieting at the same time.
  • smittybuilt19
    smittybuilt19 Posts: 955 Member
    I've stalled the last two attempts at OHP, discouraging to say the least. However most folks I've talked to agree while not the most technical lift of the SL program, it is one of the most difficult physically.
  • AJ_G
    AJ_G Posts: 4,158 Member
    After My newbie gains, will I still be able to progress as far as strength?

    Probably not, or at least very slowly. What usually happens is no matter how you're eating, you will see good strength gains for the first couple months your first time lifting. Don't be discouraged when your strength gains slow down or stall. Just continue lifting and eating at a deficit until you are down to a weight/look that you are happy with, then you can bulk to build muscle and strength from there.
  • taunto
    taunto Posts: 6,420 Member
    HI, I started doing the strong lifts program and I'm on a deficit (I'm right about 200 lbs so have a lot of weight to lose). I try to keep my protien up to a decent level and eat a protien snack before and directly after my workout. My question is if I'm on a deficit will I not see a lot progress in my strength? I know about "newbie gains" being a possibility, and I know that lifting is good to do deficit or not in order to maintain as much lean mass as possible. But with the strong lifts program its designed to progressively get stronger. The reason I'm asking is because I already stalled out on the over head press and I only had 50 lbs which is only the first step past the basic 45 lbs...I technically finished the sets but my form failed because my back was arching pretty badly to get the last set in :( Feeling pretty unaccomplished :( Is it just that the overhead press is harder to master? Or is it because I"m on a deficit and not able to progess?

    Edit: I'm using my tdee and eating an even 1500-1600 calories per day (not eating back exercise cals because its included in my tdee)

    What week are you in?
    if I'm on a deficit will I not see a lot progress in my strength?

    You will see a decent bit of strength. You will obviously get better results if you were maintaining or on a bulk but since you're trying to lose weight, that would defeat the purpose. You can get AMAZING amoutn of strength with 200 calories deficit. Somethign I personally do is eat more on lifting days and reduce calories on non-lifting days. That has given me better results.

    Also, OHPs are a pain in the butt. Heres a thread that might be of use to you:
    http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/951425-stronglifts-ohp-and-not-increasing-weights
  • DopeItUp
    DopeItUp Posts: 18,771 Member
    A lot of your strength gains won't be from muscle growth. You'll just get more coordinated and your body will become more efficient at the movement, allowing you move heavier weights with the same muscles. If you're just starting you've still got a lot of strength gain in you, even at a deficit.

    In my experience, overhead press is the slowest lift to make progress on. For one thing, it's everyone's weakest lift, so beginners get up to their max weight first. You'll probably get there on your rows next, then bench press.

    I would probably just stay at 50, and have a goal to finish it with good form on your next workout.

    You could drop back down to 45, concentrate on form for a workout or two, then take another stab at 50 with better form. Or even drop down to 20-pound dumbbells for a couple workouts. I think dumbbell presses are actually a harder exercise than barbell presses. Two 20-pound dumbbells isn't much easier than a 50-pound barbell.

    After My newbie gains, will I still be able to progress as far as strength?

    Yes, gains come slower and with diminishing returns but I've been in a deficit for over 2 years and continue to get better. Just not as quickly as when I started. Work on form and technique and keep trying, you will get stronger and stronger for a long time. Probably not at the pace stronglifts dictates of course, I dropped to 3x5 and 1x5 pretty quickly, and then onto Madcow. I'm on the border of trying a different intermediate program because even Madcow is too fast of a progression for me (I've modified it to add 5lbs every 2 weeks, not every week. Might as well go to 5/3/1 next).
  • DavPul
    DavPul Posts: 61,406 Member
    Yes, you'll continue to get stronger. And everyone stalls on OHP quickly so don't feel bad about that. Of all the muscle groups worked on SL shoulders are the smallest and the progress slows accordingly
  • CrankMeUp
    CrankMeUp Posts: 2,860 Member
    Yes, you'll continue to get stronger. And everyone stalls on OHP quickly so don't feel bad about that. Of all the muscle groups worked on SL shoulders are the smallest and the progress slows accordingly

    ^exactly.
  • phatguerilla
    phatguerilla Posts: 188 Member
    Agree with everyone else and tbh pressing exercises progress even slower for women than men so the deficit will compound that. I don't know about anyone else but I don't like much volume while on a deficit so if I were the op I might aim to get two sets of five or even just one set of five with the top weight for the week. Then instead of upping the weight you could go to 8 reps per set the following week then 10, then even 12, then up the weight and go back to one or two sets of five which by now you should be easily able to manage. So basically instead of trying to progress solely with the weight increases, try to progress with adding reps each week, and increasing the weight less often.
  • smittybuilt19
    smittybuilt19 Posts: 955 Member
    [/quote]
    Also, OHPs are a pain in the butt. Heres a thread that might be of use to you:
    http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/951425-stronglifts-ohp-and-not-increasing-weights
    [/quote]

    Excellent! Thanks for the link!
  • taiyola
    taiyola Posts: 964 Member
    Strength and gains are different.

    I've been doing weights since the end of February this year and been on mainly a deficit during that time. Some days I've eaten at maintenance, and some days gone over.

    I'm now lifting over 100kg over all the machines since when I started and lift more weight-wise than some men in the gym. :love:
  • taunto
    taunto Posts: 6,420 Member
    Strength and gains are different.

    I've been doing weights since the end of February this year and been on mainly a deficit during that time. Some days I've eaten at maintenance, and some days gone over.

    I'm now lifting over 100kg over all the machines since when I started and lift more weight-wise than some men in the gym. :love:

    Only my deadlifts are above 100 kgs so that is damn impressive!
  • Terree_G
    Terree_G Posts: 69 Member
    Thank you to all the commenters on this thread for the various bits of info on OHP. I had been wondering about several aspects, and didn't know how easily people can stall out. I managed to get to 55 before that happened, and then injured my left shoulder, which has left me unable to do even the 45lb bar. And yet I can manage overhead press with 2 20-lb dumbbells, no problem.

    So again, thanks for the helpful tips.
  • taiyola
    taiyola Posts: 964 Member
    I do 3 x 5 and casually up my weights when I'm ready. I would ideally like to go up 5kg on each machine every couple of months.

    I haven't started doing free weights yet, but I will in the future. Quite happy where I am for now though.
  • taiyola
    taiyola Posts: 964 Member
    Strength and gains are different.

    I've been doing weights since the end of February this year and been on mainly a deficit during that time. Some days I've eaten at maintenance, and some days gone over.

    I'm now lifting over 100kg over all the machines since when I started and lift more weight-wise than some men in the gym. :love:

    Only my deadlifts are above 100 kgs so that is damn impressive!

    Maybe I'll do this one day :wink:

    I'm on 50kg on my legs and 25-30kg on arms, depends on which muscle they're working. I'll be uber strong one day! :laugh:
  • Tysonlovesweights
    Tysonlovesweights Posts: 139 Member
    I am on a 500 cal/day deficit (mfp setting for 1 lb per week loss), and have not yet noticed any stalls in strength. I am starting to get into weights that it takes a few minutes between sets to recover from though! I have been doing SL for about 10 weeks now and am feeling pretty good overall. The only stall I have had so far is in my weight loss, so I am hoping that I have gotten a few newbie gains and to be shedding lbs again soon! I find it hard to stay in my calorie range when I am recovering on my off days.......so damn hungry!
  • Jameson1984
    Jameson1984 Posts: 100 Member
    Bumping for future reference.
  • Sarauk2sf
    Sarauk2sf Posts: 28,072 Member
    As has already been mentioned, you can make gains on a deficit. The newbie gains you hear are really size gains (sarcoplasmic hypertrophy) whereas the strength gains you make are mainly neuromuscular (your brain and muscles talking to each other better). The strength gains will continue but will be a lot slower on a deficit compared to at a surplus. I was making gains for the whole year I was on a deficit and I was pushing myself pretty hard the whole time, so the comment re people making gains for a year not pushing themselves is not necessarily true.

    You can also get your lifts up due to continued form improvement.

    OHP is a total bish and is the first one people usually stall at as it uses smaller muscle groups. Also, I find OHP more sensitive to a deficit and to whether you get good sleep or not.

    Also, OHP for SL starts at a high % of your potential. For example, most people's OHP is less than half their squat and about 2/3rd of their bench, so it stands to reason you will fail the quickest. Look into fractional weights also as this will help progression at a more realistic rate.

    Follow the SL recommendations for when you stall (deloads and then 3 x 5).
  • operation_cute
    operation_cute Posts: 588 Member
    Thanks everyone, I'm definitely going to keep at it, just wasn't sure If I should keep my expectations pretty low when it came to progressing, but by the sounds of it I can progress, it just may be at a slower rate :) So I'll keep patient and work my tale off lol
  • halleymw
    halleymw Posts: 246 Member
    I did stronglifts 5x5, then switched to 3x5 when I stalled out. i continued to make progress until I could not increase my bench over 130 or ohp over 100. I have just switched over to the ALL Pro beginner workout to see if that will help get me progress again.
    So, if you are still doing 5x5, and stalled out after several deloads, I think you have 4 options:
    1. Instead of going up 5 pounds, go up 2 to 2 1/2. If you don't have fractional plates, buy some adjustable ankle weights and adjust them so that you can go up 2 or 2 1/2 pounds each lift.
    2. Switch to 3x5
    3. Combo of the above
    4. Switch to the All Pro beginner workout. (just do a google search for it and there is a lot of info on how to do the program. It is supposed to be good for a calorie deficit.)

    Mike
  • alisaglem
    alisaglem Posts: 36 Member
    Agree with everyone else and tbh pressing exercises progress even slower for women than men so the deficit will compound that. I don't know about anyone else but I don't like much volume while on a deficit so if I were the op I might aim to get two sets of five or even just one set of five with the top weight for the week. Then instead of upping the weight you could go to 8 reps per set the following week then 10, then even 12, then up the weight and go back to one or two sets of five which by now you should be easily able to manage. So basically instead of trying to progress solely with the weight increases, try to progress with adding reps each week, and increasing the weight less often.

    That is exactly what I started doing as well. I have struggled with OHP even at 45lbs and I considered myself pretty strong before starting SL. So I increase the reps until I can do a lot and then I'd consider moving up the weight.
  • halleymw
    halleymw Posts: 246 Member
    One other thing to mention is to be sure to have adequate rest between sets. unlike a lot of other programs that only have a minute or so rest between sets, SL can require from 3 to 5 minutes.
    mike

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