What is so bad about Default / USDA macros?
caseybedingfield
Posts: 5 Member
I hear so many say the default macros (USDA) are bunk. They seem to work for me, but everyone seems to think they don't have the optimal ratio. Also if the USDA macros are bunk, can you list other countries who's health and agricultural services actually claim you need different ratios?
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Another thing is that it seems when I eat what I feel like is fairly balanced diet.. my ratio's almost always end up being around USDA anyway.. almost automatically without trying. I don't worry about going over on protein at times, but when I hit the fat and carb levels I always stop. its seems to satisfy me very well.0
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The USDA macros are fine. You really only hear criticism from low carb fad diet proponents who insist that carbs are the root of all evil.
However, the USDA macros are general guidelines with a lot of wiggle room. The 2010 recommendation for carbohydrates, for example, has a range from 45%-65% of caloric intake, which is obviously a big difference. For most people, the USDA provides an adequate guide.
I would just alter them to match your individual body composition and preference. I altered my macro to better suit my ideal body composition as well as personal preference. I feel less hungry on a diet that is higher in fat (40% of caloric intake), though still within recommended amounts of saturated fat.0 -
More research is required....get to googling buddy!..:laugh:
I would start with searching out 'Lipid Hypothesis' and why it's a farse.
Then, check out 'Ansel Keys' and the seven countries study....you'll find out what the big deal is with the USDA's recommendation that a diet based on carbs is good for you.
Here's a good thread to whet yer whistle...http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/1039123-everyone-told-me-coconut-oil-was-good-for-me
Skip to the last 3 or 4 pages for additional clues. If you're so inclined & have an affinity for sound bites, check out the documentary 'FatHead' (available on free with Prime on Amazon)...check out 'The Perfect Human Diet' also on Amazon free with Prime.
Find out why saturated fat is good for you, why cholesterol is not a marker of heart disease, why you should consume unprocessed foods as much as possible/affordable (including 'healthy vegetable oils & whole grains) & why a high carb diet is to blame for T2D, issues with Insulin Resistance, high blood pressure, hardening of the arteries, kidney disease etc.
ETA: google syndrome X
When you're done with all of that, you will have a good foundation to then make a rational choice for yourself.
You're welcome :drinker:0 -
^Like I said, the criticism mainly comes from low carb fad dieters who think carbs are the root of all evil.0
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^Like I said, the criticism mainly comes from low carb fad dieters who think carbs are the root of all evil.
Yes, and like I said,
When you're done with all of that, you will have a good foundation to then make a rational choice for yourself. :drinker:0 -
You will lose more muscle than necessary eating protein that low while in a caloric deficit.0
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Insulin drives fat. Carbs drive insulin. How well your body uptakes insulin will determine how many carbs your body can process before you either have to a)burn the excess or b) store the excess glucose as fat. That's why some people (like me) have to eat low carb, and others can get away with more. Low carb is not a fad for a lot of people, for some of us with metabolic syndrome, diabetes, insulin resistance, etc, it is a prescription. If you can handle carbs, good for you!
ETA: agreed that the given protein amount is very low. I eat 1 gram per pound of lean mass.0 -
I think the main problem people have with those guidelines is that the protein recommendation is so low. It's certainly an adequate amount of protein... you could eat that much protein and your body would function just fine. However, when it comes to preserving muscle while losing weight - which I'd venture to guess that the majority of people here aim for - a high-protein diet is recommended. I eat more than twice the default protein recommendation for me and I've seen great changes in my body recomp. I doubt I would have seen those same changes if I had been eating such a small amount of protein as the USDA recommends... but then again, since I have not tried it, I cannot say for sure.
Also, I'm definitely not one of those "carbs are the devil" people - low-carb and all other fad diets are crap - but I do know that I look and feel better when I keep my carbs around 40% or less. This amount is lower than the USDA recommendation, so that's another tweak I would personally recommend. But everyone is different. If you're doing great with the default settings, then by all means keep on keepin' on!0 -
Protein recommendation is definitely low, but only on the low end. The recommendation is 10-35%. Again, a ton of wiggle room there. There is no evidence that you need more than 35% to maintain a healthy body composition.0
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Everyone here makes a valid point, at the end of the day I think the USDA Macros are fine when you're taking into account eating carbs that are less processed, but calories in vs calories out are also very important. I don't really condone a high fat or a low carb diet. I think having a healthy balance is more important. Getting enough nutrients, eat plenty of fruits and veggies, eating carbs from better sources like quinoa, yams, sweet potatoes, wild rice..I personally prefer foods low on the glycemic index. I also like to include different types of fats from better sources like fish, nuts, avocados, and even though Coconut oil is a saturated fat it has great health benefits.
http://www.globalhealingcenter.com/natural-health/the-benefits-of-coconut-oil/
I also agree that if you are in a caloric deficit, it is important to not skimp on the protein so you can maintain your muscle mass.0 -
A significant minority of the population is insulin resistant. To recommend 300g of carbs a day is insanity and certainly not balanced.
Edit: That being said, if you're a healthy person then the USDA recommendations probably won't hurt you.0 -
I found a website that compares food recommendations from several different countries, it seems like the recommendations are pretty much standard fare around the world. USDA recommendations have been working great for me, and I know when I was having trouble in the past I was going way off those. It took following MFP just to see how bad I was overdoing certain things in the past. I try to eat alil more protein when I can but I don't get bent out of shape about it. One of my problems lately is I've had to change my activity level up, I've went from active and eat eat eating to sedentary. It took a while to get used to eating less, but I can definitely tell that the sedentary activity level makes it alot more delicate of a balance to make this work.0
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For some people, that is quite a lot.The 2010 recommendation for carbohydrates, for example, has a range from 45%-65% of caloric intake
I changed mine because the protein and fat recommendations were rather low and I'm trying to get more protein and fewer carbs. Carbs aren't 'the devil' but some people don't do so well on a 'balanced' diet of 65% carbs. So I change them to suit what I'm trying to do. What you want to do is entirely up to you.0 -
You will lose more muscle than necessary eating protein that low while in a caloric deficit.
^^This. Let me start by saying that there is nothing wrong with carbs, they are great, and they are the body's preferred energy source. That being said, it is the only of the 3 macronutrients that your body can survive without. 50g of protein a day is ridiculously low, especially if you do any amount of strength training or weight lifting at all. The reason you are eating around USDA macros when you eat normally is because the Western Diet is carb heavy, and deficient in protein, and in some cases fat. The optimum amount of protein for muscle protein synthesis during strength training is .82g per lb of bodyweight, and the minimum fat you should consume every day is .4g per lb of body weight for hormone production and nutrient absorption. Once those 2 macros are satisfied, you can fill the rest of your calories with carbs if you'd like, or any combination of carbs, protein, and fat that you'd like0 -
Insulin drives fat. Carbs drive insulin. How well your body uptakes insulin will determine how many carbs your body can process before you either have to a)burn the excess or b) store the excess glucose as fat. That's why some people (like me) have to eat low carb, and others can get away with more. Low carb is not a fad for a lot of people, for some of us with metabolic syndrome, diabetes, insulin resistance, etc, it is a prescription. If you can handle carbs, good for you!
ETA: agreed that the given protein amount is very low. I eat 1 gram per pound of lean mass.
If you're eating at a deficit, insulin spikes and fat storage are not an issue because your body will burn those fat stores later in the day anyway...0 -
Insulin drives fat. Carbs drive insulin. How well your body uptakes insulin will determine how many carbs your body can process before you either have to a)burn the excess or b) store the excess glucose as fat. That's why some people (like me) have to eat low carb, and others can get away with more. Low carb is not a fad for a lot of people, for some of us with metabolic syndrome, diabetes, insulin resistance, etc, it is a prescription. If you can handle carbs, good for you!
ETA: agreed that the given protein amount is very low. I eat 1 gram per pound of lean mass.
If you're eating at a deficit, insulin spikes and fat storage are not an issue because your body will burn those fat stores later in the day anyway...
No. If you have a metabolic disorder, you will still store fat. You might lose *weight*, but not fat.0 -
Insulin drives fat. Carbs drive insulin. How well your body uptakes insulin will determine how many carbs your body can process before you either have to a)burn the excess or b) store the excess glucose as fat. That's why some people (like me) have to eat low carb, and others can get away with more. Low carb is not a fad for a lot of people, for some of us with metabolic syndrome, diabetes, insulin resistance, etc, it is a prescription. If you can handle carbs, good for you!
ETA: agreed that the given protein amount is very low. I eat 1 gram per pound of lean mass.
If you're eating at a deficit, insulin spikes and fat storage are not an issue because your body will burn those fat stores later in the day anyway...
That didn't happen to me. I stored everything I ate as fat. I ate at a deficit, netted 1200, then 1400, then did TDEE <20%, lifted heavy, ate a balanced USDA diet and only lost 4#'s from January to April.
Went to the doctor for a pain in my tummy...had bloodwork done that came back with a casual BG of 266. :noway: Other than the lack of weight loss and the ability to gain no matter what I ate, there was no way for me to know. In retrospect, the clues were there, but whatever. I was mystified because I gave up soda 3 or 4 years prior & all fast food 5 yrs prior.
My point is, as long as I'm able to keep my BG below 140mg/dl, weight comes off. I stall as soon as it gets above 140mg/dl.0 -
Insulin drives fat. Carbs drive insulin. How well your body uptakes insulin will determine how many carbs your body can process before you either have to a)burn the excess or b) store the excess glucose as fat. That's why some people (like me) have to eat low carb, and others can get away with more. Low carb is not a fad for a lot of people, for some of us with metabolic syndrome, diabetes, insulin resistance, etc, it is a prescription. If you can handle carbs, good for you!
ETA: agreed that the given protein amount is very low. I eat 1 gram per pound of lean mass.
If you're eating at a deficit, insulin spikes and fat storage are not an issue because your body will burn those fat stores later in the day anyway...
That didn't happen to me. I stored everything I ate as fat. I ate at a deficit, netted 1200, then 1400, then did TDEE <20%, lifted heavy, ate a balanced USDA diet and only lost 4#'s from January to April.
Went to the doctor for a pain in my tummy...had bloodwork done that came back with a casual BG of 266. :noway: Other than the lack of weight loss and the ability to gain no matter what I ate, there was no way for me to know. In retrospect, the clues were there, but whatever. I was mystified because I gave up soda 3 or 4 years prior & all fast food 5 yrs prior.
My point is, as long as I'm able to keep my BG below 140mg/dl, weight comes off. I stall as soon as it gets above 140mg/dl.
Sorry, I was referring to people without diabetes or other metabolic disorders. Obviously if you're diabetic, or have trouble controlling blood glucose levels, then weight loss and body composition is not so simple. On another note, if you're lifting heavy and eating a "balanced USDA diet", then you are not going to have enough amino acid availability in your blood stream due to lack of protein, especially if you are cutting. If your goal is muscle building, or muscle preservation during a cut, then you should be consuming at least .82g of protein per lb of body weight. This is not a made up number, it was found through scientific studies. I'm don't know much about metabolic syndromes, but I've read a lot of scientific studies on bodybuilding nutrition, and you're going to be spinning your wheels if you're lifting weights and only eating 50g of protein a day. You may get results, but not as optimal results as you could be getting.0 -
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Lowfat, low protein, still advocates the lipid hypothesis...etc.0
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For me, the fiber is set too low and the sodium too high, but that's me. I don't tell (or expect) someone else to change their settings to suit me. I set the fiber at 25 for the base number (MFP increases it automatically when I have exercise calories) and it is a minimum for me. Sodium I set at 2000, but I aim for 1500-1800 max. I find that if I'm eating enough actual freal food (vs a lot of processed stuff) the sodium tends to take care of itself.0
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You will lose more muscle than necessary eating protein that low while in a caloric deficit.
YUP!0 -
I feel the same way as you do. I heard so much about how high protein and fat diets (and low carb) are the most healthy. I've always eaten a lot of carbs and never had a weight problem, but that doesn't necessarily mean healthy, so I figured I'd try upping the fat and protein and lowering my carbs (keeping them to mostly only fruit and veggie sources). I was constantly constipated, bloaty, fatigued, and (understandably) grumpy for the duration of my ratio switch.
On the other hand, I feel great at the USDA recommended ratios, so that's what I try to hit when I'm tracking my macros. I don't care if the current trend is away from that, because it works for me.0 -
Bump to read later0
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Insulin drives fat. Carbs drive insulin. How well your body uptakes insulin will determine how many carbs your body can process before you either have to a)burn the excess or b) store the excess glucose as fat. That's why some people (like me) have to eat low carb, and others can get away with more. Low carb is not a fad for a lot of people, for some of us with metabolic syndrome, diabetes, insulin resistance, etc, it is a prescription. If you can handle carbs, good for you!
ETA: agreed that the given protein amount is very low. I eat 1 gram per pound of lean mass.
If you're eating at a deficit, insulin spikes and fat storage are not an issue because your body will burn those fat stores later in the day anyway...
That didn't happen to me. I stored everything I ate as fat. I ate at a deficit, netted 1200, then 1400, then did TDEE <20%, lifted heavy, ate a balanced USDA diet and only lost 4#'s from January to April.
Went to the doctor for a pain in my tummy...had bloodwork done that came back with a casual BG of 266. :noway: Other than the lack of weight loss and the ability to gain no matter what I ate, there was no way for me to know. In retrospect, the clues were there, but whatever. I was mystified because I gave up soda 3 or 4 years prior & all fast food 5 yrs prior.
My point is, as long as I'm able to keep my BG below 140mg/dl, weight comes off. I stall as soon as it gets above 140mg/dl.
Sorry, I was referring to people without diabetes or other metabolic disorders. Obviously if you're diabetic, or have trouble controlling blood glucose levels, then weight loss and body composition is not so simple. On another note, if you're lifting heavy and eating a "balanced USDA diet", then you are not going to have enough amino acid availability in your blood stream due to lack of protein, especially if you are cutting. If your goal is muscle building, or muscle preservation during a cut, then you should be consuming at least .82g of protein per lb of body weight. This is not a made up number, it was found through scientific studies. I'm don't know much about metabolic syndromes, but I've read a lot of scientific studies on bodybuilding nutrition, and you're going to be spinning your wheels if you're lifting weights and only eating 50g of protein a day. You may get results, but not as optimal results as you could be getting.
I appreciate your response
If I seem a little disillusioned with the USDA food pyramid, it's because I'd been doing all the right things for the last 15 yrs and following USDA recommendations while slowly losing beta function and now I'm fighting like hell to get to a new normal.
My goal is indeed muscle building, as it had been during those years. You can't imagine what it's like to be sitting on that ridiculous piece of noisy paper on that goofy table telling the doctor that I've been lifting weights 3x wkly for 10 yrs, no soda, no fast food, etc. I even offered to show them my MFP diary, all in an effort to get them to explain why, if I followed what was supposed to be a 'healthy balanced diet' I was 30#'s overweight and was clearly as demonstrated by my BG, diabetic. I also tried to tell them that I'm a dog walker for a living, so I migrate a few miles every day depending on the appointments I have....so wth? :huh: Not only did they not believe me, but they were less than interested, even annoyed with my confusion & apparent denial.
Couple that with MFP & TDEE <20%, eating more, eating less, getting a fitbit to correctly gauge my TDEE etc. I had all sorts of stats to argue that this was not possible as I did what 'people' said to do....move more, lift heavy, create a deficit. Pfft. Talk about frustration??!!
All of that being said, again, I appreciate your response about protein & the only caveat I have right now is personal and hopefully temporary....Upon dx (April 114, 2013) I presented with microalbuminuria, as my A1C was a whopping 9.9. I'm going for my 3 month bloods at the end of July so I'm hoping that will resolve itself at which point I can increase my protein intake.
Hope you don't mind....sending FR, have other questions
:drinker:0 -
Insulin drives fat. Carbs drive insulin. How well your body uptakes insulin will determine how many carbs your body can process before you either have to a)burn the excess or b) store the excess glucose as fat. That's why some people (like me) have to eat low carb, and others can get away with more. Low carb is not a fad for a lot of people, for some of us with metabolic syndrome, diabetes, insulin resistance, etc, it is a prescription. If you can handle carbs, good for you!
ETA: agreed that the given protein amount is very low. I eat 1 gram per pound of lean mass.
Hmmmm why would you recommend eating more protein, when protein is highly insulinogenic? Insulin drives fat, right?0 -
Insulin drives fat. Carbs drive insulin. How well your body uptakes insulin will determine how many carbs your body can process before you either have to a)burn the excess or b) store the excess glucose as fat. That's why some people (like me) have to eat low carb, and others can get away with more. Low carb is not a fad for a lot of people, for some of us with metabolic syndrome, diabetes, insulin resistance, etc, it is a prescription. If you can handle carbs, good for you!
ETA: agreed that the given protein amount is very low. I eat 1 gram per pound of lean mass.
Hmmmm why would you recommend eating more protein, when protein is highly insulinogenic? Insulin drives fat, right?
You know why... dat der regurgitation of information without fully understanding what is being said .0 -
Don't they just collaborate to tell us to eat what they can grow ? Somehow I would be happier with independent health advice.Also if the USDA macros are bunk, can you list other countries who's health and agricultural services actually claim you need different ratios?
For weight loss, which is why many of us are here, the 15% protein default of MFP is pretty low and would do poorly in a comparison against a 35% protein diet.
The Australian recommendations say I need 64g of protein per day, which is indeed about the same as the MFP default at 1700 cals. They found no evidence for a carbohydrate target in adults http://www.nrv.gov.au/nutrients/index.htm . They also say :-
Fluids
(Including plain water, milk and other drinks) 2.6 L/day**
Fibre 30 g/day**0 -
Insulin drives fat. Carbs drive insulin. How well your body uptakes insulin will determine how many carbs your body can process before you either have to a)burn the excess or b) store the excess glucose as fat. That's why some people (like me) have to eat low carb, and others can get away with more. Low carb is not a fad for a lot of people, for some of us with metabolic syndrome, diabetes, insulin resistance, etc, it is a prescription. If you can handle carbs, good for you!
ETA: agreed that the given protein amount is very low. I eat 1 gram per pound of lean mass.
Hmmmm why would you recommend eating more protein, when protein is highly insulinogenic? Insulin drives fat, right?
You know why... dat der regurgitation of information without fully understanding what is being said .
Mock me all you want, I don't care. I'm sure you also know that while protein is insulinogenic (whey protein being the most), they don't spike blood sugar, and it also triggers the release of glucagon to facilitate absorption of amino acids, which carb rich foods do not. My point is that adequate protein intake, seems to support my lean mass, and provides my body with a way to store glucose for future needs without having to give up a ketogenic state or cause an increase in blood sugar.0 -
Well, having worked in a government department which dealt with food and agriculture, I can't say it would surprise me if it turned out that the agriculture lobby has a powerful influence over dietary recommendations.
But this is understandable. Most countries probably wouldn't be able to feed their inhabitants in a sustainable way (or at all) if everybody insisted on a palaeo diet. It takes a lot of resources to produce meat.
Let's face it, we can synthesise glucose from non-carbohydrate food sources (by gluconeogenesis). So lots of starchy carbohydrates probably aren't a necessary part of a healthy diet. Although don't quote me on that - I'm a biologist not a dietician.
Just for the record, I have no particular dietary bias. Personally I eat everything. Which is why I need MFP!0
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