Gains/Losing fat

RickNeedzToGetShreaded
RickNeedzToGetShreaded Posts: 293 Member
in Health and Weight Loss
Hi, just a quick question into gaining muscle and fat at the same time I know it is possible but to lose fat how man calories in a deficit should you be while being able to atleast maintain or make noob gains?

Replies

  • joleenl
    joleenl Posts: 739 Member
    You can't gain muscle on a deficit so you can't lose fat and build muscle at the same time. If you lift in a defict you will maintain and strengthen your currents muscles while losing fat. You will get some newbie gains if you are new to lifting. My understanding is the newbie gains are minimal unless you are obese. When you first start lifting you might see a gain on the scale, to my understanding this is glycogen and water your body retains to repair your muscles after lifting. A good place to start for calories is find your TDEE and eat -20% of the that.

    A TDEE Calculator:
    http://scoobysworkshop.com/calorie-calculator/
  • joleenl
    joleenl Posts: 739 Member
    You can't gain muscle on a deficit so you can't lose fat and build muscle at the same time. If you lift in a defict you will maintain and strengthen your currents muscles while losing fat. You will get some newbie gains if you are new to lifting. My understanding is the newbie gains are minimal unless you are obese. When you first start lifting you might see a gain on the scale, to my understanding this is glycogen and water your body retains to repair your muscles after lifting. A good place to start for calories is find your TDEE and eat -20% of the that.

    A TDEE Calculator:
    http://scoobysworkshop.com/calorie-calculator/

    Just to add. You already look pretty lean in your profile pic so I am guessing, that if you ate a surplus while strength training you would gain muscle so in theory anyways the more muscle you have the low percent body fat you'd have. This won't be because you lost fat, but because your overall mass is larger and (assuming) your body fat wouldn't change. However I have no experience in this. This is just in theory based on what I know. I would suspect that you'd really have to be careful with your macros while eating in a surplus to gain muscle to be sure that you are gaining actual muscle not fat.
  • RickNeedzToGetShreaded
    RickNeedzToGetShreaded Posts: 293 Member
    I've read through scoobys info, he does say you can gain muscle on a deficit but I really don't know I've always eaten around even, recently dropping to 200 calorie deficit to try and drop my body fat.
  • QuilterInVA
    QuilterInVA Posts: 672 Member
    You can gain muscle at a deficit. I'm doing medically supervised low carb and keep my calories to 1000 a day. I've gained a little over 3 pounds of muscle and lost 11 pounds of fat. I do strength training, water aerobics, water zumba, and tai chi (71 years old). I think the secret is to keep at least 100 grams of protein a day in your plan.
  • BarackMeLikeAHurricane
    BarackMeLikeAHurricane Posts: 3,400 Member
    The only time you can't gain any muscle in a deficit is if you're already a well conditioned athlete that's been lifting for years or if you have a really sh!tty diet. I've managed to put on a whole lot of muscle in a deficit. Granted, it's much easier to gain muscle in a surplus and you'll gain ore muscle, but saying you won't gain any muscle is bs.

    Eat 250-500 calories below maintenance, keep lifting, keep protein high, and don't let your deficit get too big. OP, you already look fairly lean so I'd go with 250 daily calorie deficit for you. Make sure you're on a good program and keep adding weight to the bar.
  • sweetNsassy2584
    sweetNsassy2584 Posts: 515 Member
    I've put on 5 pounds of muscle in a deficit while losing body fat.
  • joleenl
    joleenl Posts: 739 Member
    Based on everything I've ever read you can't gain muscle on a deficit. However you can up your percent muscle by decreasing your over all mass and retaining your current muscle through strength training. For example if you weigh 200 pounds and only 100 pounds of it is muscle, you will have a percentage of 50% muscle (and 50% body fat) . If you lose 50 pounds of fat and retain that 100 pounds of muscle then your percent muscle would be 66% (like wise you'd only have 33% body fat) of your new weight of 150 (50 pounds fat + 100 pounds muscle).

    In summary, although you can't gain muscle in deficit you can increase your percentage by lowering your mass through fat loss and current muscle retension.
  • joleenl
    joleenl Posts: 739 Member
    If you google the topic you will find many fitness sites that confirm you can't gain a substancial amount of muscle while in a deficit. Also you can search the forums with the search function and you'll find most agree that you can't gain muscle mass on a deficit. I realize I am not a creditable source because I am brand new to lifting myself. For me it's only been a month.
  • RickNeedzToGetShreaded
    RickNeedzToGetShreaded Posts: 293 Member
    Quite a few people saying you can and I agree I'll try and aim for -200-300 and see what the results are like.
  • Warchortle
    Warchortle Posts: 2,197 Member
    It's not impossible to gain muscle on a deficit.. it's just very hard or under certain circumstances.. new to lifting, practice lean gains. take steroids...
  • joleenl
    joleenl Posts: 739 Member
    It's not impossible to gain muscle on a deficit.. it's just very hard or under certain circumstances.. new to lifting, practice lean gains. take steroids...

    I agree with this ^^

    Steroids and newbie gains are the only 2 ways I've ever heard to gain muscle while on a deficit.
  • joleenl
    joleenl Posts: 739 Member
    Here are two other similar threads:

    http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/1016062-calorie-deficit-no-muscle-mass-gain-so-why-am-i-stronger

    http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/1017415-gaining-muscle-on-a-deficit?hl=Gains+deficit&page=1#posts-15592511
  • RickNeedzToGetShreaded
    RickNeedzToGetShreaded Posts: 293 Member
    Well that sucks, you certainly can't lose while surplus because my bodyfat doesn't change.
  • alyhuggan
    alyhuggan Posts: 717 Member
    No point arguing whether you can or can't as there's a big debate out there about that. However most athletes tend to do a bulk and cut split, where they bulk for x amount of months and cut for y amounts of weeks/months and repeat, trying to gain as much muscle as possible on the bulk and lose as little fat on the cut.
  • broscientist
    broscientist Posts: 102 Member
    Ok, 1st thing you need to do is stop listening to Scooby. Some of the stuff is OK, but, he's got tons of broscience stuff on his site.

    Divide your time period into cut phases and bulk phases.
    Example: Cut until you are 10% than clean bulk until you are 12% then go back on a cut. (you can use whatever bf% that suits you).
    Here is a good clean bulking article:
    http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/the_truth_about_bulking

    I find it funny that you would ask for help here and not bb.com.

    btw, Your Macros are rock solid.

    Zyzz is my inspiration too.
  • Cherry_T
    Cherry_T Posts: 62 Member
    Believe it or not. You can and I have! All you have to do is train while fasted. When your body is fasted, it is primed to take in more nutrients than normal. So 100 calories of weight will net you more amino acids when fasted than when not. Not a long term plan to do, ofcourse.

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