Clarity on simultaneous fat loss and muscle build

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  • KerryJohnsonRocks
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    I'm not a dude but my goal was the same...fat loss followed by getting ripped. Sounds like you have lots of direction. My only advice after reading this is to not get too hung up on a certain plan right away and don't stress every little detail. It takes time to develop a routine that works for your schedule and you'll try several different food plans (carb cycling, etc), several lifting programs, several supplements and powders, etc. The more you read the more you'll try to find the "perfect" plan. There isn't one, but eventually you will find something that works for you.
  • JuroNemo14
    JuroNemo14 Posts: 101 Member
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    Hmm, I guess what you're saying is right too. I can't find a perfect plan :p

    But the plan I have, bulking followed by cutting the bodyfat away, what can I expect from my body and the fat around it? I know the Your Mileage May Vary saying, but is there something to keep me going? Will people perceive me as becoming fatter, or more muscular? I certaintly hope the second, because I really could use a good first impression at college.
  • tricksee
    tricksee Posts: 835 Member
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    Averageukdude gave SOLID advice right here.... Props!!
  • jwdieter
    jwdieter Posts: 2,582 Member
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    Hmm, I guess what you're saying is right too. I can't find a perfect plan :p

    But the plan I have, bulking followed by cutting the bodyfat away, what can I expect from my body and the fat around it? I know the Your Mileage May Vary saying, but is there something to keep me going? Will people perceive me as becoming fatter, or more muscular? I certaintly hope the second, because I really could use a good first impression at college.

    At 2500 and working hard for the first time, my guess is you'll be recomping for a few months. Meaning you'll look significantly better than you do now.
  • JuroNemo14
    JuroNemo14 Posts: 101 Member
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    Hmm, I guess what you're saying is right too. I can't find a perfect plan :p

    But the plan I have, bulking followed by cutting the bodyfat away, what can I expect from my body and the fat around it? I know the Your Mileage May Vary saying, but is there something to keep me going? Will people perceive me as becoming fatter, or more muscular? I certaintly hope the second, because I really could use a good first impression at college.

    At 2500 and working hard for the first time, my guess is you'll be recomping for a few months. Meaning you'll look significantly better than you do now.

    Seriously?! A boy can only dream :). Well, you got me motivated with that one. Let's hope so.
  • alyhuggan
    alyhuggan Posts: 717 Member
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    3x a week you need to build up a good foundation so look starting strength or another beginner 5x5 program.
    He wants to get a "batman chest" assuming by that he wants to go into bodybuilding, the 5x5 program won't help with that as it's a powerlifter routine.

    To OP, there is no set routine that will work for everyone. Start finding out new exercises on youtube from channels like POG, Hodgetwins, Tiger Fitness and one I like as he's my age, scondore. The one fundamental that you need to understand here or you will stunt your progress is the difference between a power lifter and a body builder. A power lifter tries to move as much weight ANY way possible. They generally do heavy compound movements and I believe leave out isolation exercises as they wants to build up as much strength as possible, gaining a generous amount of muscle as a bi-product of their training. A bodybuilder does not care about the weight they move, only that they try and focus all the stress of the exercise to that muscle(s) that they are training, for example, for incline flies, they do not want to incorporate their delts or anything else into that exercise, they want to focus all the stress onto their chest, with fairly high CLEAN reps (8-12) with good form and keeping constant tension on the muscle. This is what creates the muscle to grow. Strength is the bi-product of this type of training, as it does come. But don't let seeing big guys pushing heavy weight at the gym fool you. Pick which one you want to go with and stick with it.

    For the record:

    Famous powerlifter: http://theswole.com/swole/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/Konstantin-Konstantinovs.jpg

    Don't know his training routine but I guarantee it is very low reps, very high weight

    Famous bodybuilder: http://www.bodybuilding.com/contest_media/14071/43/d/img_09941285407965.jpg

    Kai used to and still does I believe aim for 20 reps in his exercises.

    Also, the main thing I don't like about 5x5 is the fact it's always 5 reps. What if you hit rep 5 and think oh, I can do more! Then you up the weight and can't do 5 as you are too tired? Whereas training to failure you can do sets that go 12, 9, and 8 with 1 forced rep and then you know that you have worked yourself hard.

    if you feel you can do more than 5 your not lifting heavy enough.

    A good bodybuilding 5x5: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=148036063&page=1

    I can't be bothered to go into hyperthrophy rep arguments, it's been proven wrong so many times but stays alive thanks to bro science. If he's a new lifter there's no point him going on any kind of split as its something that you should be doing as an intermediate lifter.

    Arnold's primary workouts were compounds and I don't think anyone can argue about his bodybuilding status.

    The guy that wrote that looks puffy and has almost no definition at all. The same as a typical powerlifter. Coincidence? I think not. Arnold was on steroids, look at CT Fletchers arms. No-one natural could train arms every day and get them that size. Current Mr Olympia Phil heath also trains in the 8-12 rep range. I know plenty of people who train 5x5 and eat a pretty good diet and are seeing barely any results at all. Me and my friend train in the 8-12 rep range (except compound movements) and are seeing gains regularly.
  • jasonheyd
    jasonheyd Posts: 524 Member
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    The guy that wrote that looks puffy and has almost no definition at all. The same as a typical powerlifter. Coincidence? I think not. Arnold was on steroids, look at CT Fletchers arms. No-one natural could train arms every day and get them that size. Current Mr Olympia Phil heath also trains in the 8-12 rep range. I know plenty of people who train 5x5 and eat a pretty good diet and are seeing barely any results at all. Me and my friend train in the 8-12 rep range (except compound movements) and are seeing gains regularly.

    (1) oh goody, a p___ing match

    and

    (2) enjoy your noob gains while they last ;-)
  • Mia_RagazzaTosta
    Mia_RagazzaTosta Posts: 4,885 Member
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    3x a week you need to build up a good foundation so look starting strength or another beginner 5x5 program.
    He wants to get a "batman chest" assuming by that he wants to go into bodybuilding, the 5x5 program won't help with that as it's a powerlifter routine.

    To OP, there is no set routine that will work for everyone. Start finding out new exercises on youtube from channels like POG, Hodgetwins, Tiger Fitness and one I like as he's my age, scondore. The one fundamental that you need to understand here or you will stunt your progress is the difference between a power lifter and a body builder. A power lifter tries to move as much weight ANY way possible. They generally do heavy compound movements and I believe leave out isolation exercises as they wants to build up as much strength as possible, gaining a generous amount of muscle as a bi-product of their training. A bodybuilder does not care about the weight they move, only that they try and focus all the stress of the exercise to that muscle(s) that they are training, for example, for incline flies, they do not want to incorporate their delts or anything else into that exercise, they want to focus all the stress onto their chest, with fairly high CLEAN reps (8-12) with good form and keeping constant tension on the muscle. This is what creates the muscle to grow. Strength is the bi-product of this type of training, as it does come. But don't let seeing big guys pushing heavy weight at the gym fool you. Pick which one you want to go with and stick with it.

    For the record:

    Famous powerlifter: http://theswole.com/swole/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/Konstantin-Konstantinovs.jpg

    Don't know his training routine but I guarantee it is very low reps, very high weight

    Famous bodybuilder: http://www.bodybuilding.com/contest_media/14071/43/d/img_09941285407965.jpg

    Kai used to and still does I believe aim for 20 reps in his exercises.

    Also, the main thing I don't like about 5x5 is the fact it's always 5 reps. What if you hit rep 5 and think oh, I can do more! Then you up the weight and can't do 5 as you are too tired? Whereas training to failure you can do sets that go 12, 9, and 8 with 1 forced rep and then you know that you have worked yourself hard.

    if you feel you can do more than 5 your not lifting heavy enough.

    A good bodybuilding 5x5: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=148036063&page=1

    I can't be bothered to go into hyperthrophy rep arguments, it's been proven wrong so many times but stays alive thanks to bro science. If he's a new lifter there's no point him going on any kind of split as its something that you should be doing as an intermediate lifter.

    Arnold's primary workouts were compounds and I don't think anyone can argue about his bodybuilding status.

    The guy that wrote that looks puffy and has almost no definition at all. The same as a typical powerlifter. Coincidence? I think not. Arnold was on steroids, look at CT Fletchers arms. No-one natural could train arms every day and get them that size. Current Mr Olympia Phil heath also trains in the 8-12 rep range. I know plenty of people who train 5x5 and eat a pretty good diet and are seeing barely any results at all. Me and my friend train in the 8-12 rep range (except compound movements) and are seeing gains regularly.

    Oh to be 18 and misinformed...
  • alyhuggan
    alyhuggan Posts: 717 Member
    Options
    3x a week you need to build up a good foundation so look starting strength or another beginner 5x5 program.
    He wants to get a "batman chest" assuming by that he wants to go into bodybuilding, the 5x5 program won't help with that as it's a powerlifter routine.

    To OP, there is no set routine that will work for everyone. Start finding out new exercises on youtube from channels like POG, Hodgetwins, Tiger Fitness and one I like as he's my age, scondore. The one fundamental that you need to understand here or you will stunt your progress is the difference between a power lifter and a body builder. A power lifter tries to move as much weight ANY way possible. They generally do heavy compound movements and I believe leave out isolation exercises as they wants to build up as much strength as possible, gaining a generous amount of muscle as a bi-product of their training. A bodybuilder does not care about the weight they move, only that they try and focus all the stress of the exercise to that muscle(s) that they are training, for example, for incline flies, they do not want to incorporate their delts or anything else into that exercise, they want to focus all the stress onto their chest, with fairly high CLEAN reps (8-12) with good form and keeping constant tension on the muscle. This is what creates the muscle to grow. Strength is the bi-product of this type of training, as it does come. But don't let seeing big guys pushing heavy weight at the gym fool you. Pick which one you want to go with and stick with it.

    For the record:

    Famous powerlifter: http://theswole.com/swole/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/Konstantin-Konstantinovs.jpg

    Don't know his training routine but I guarantee it is very low reps, very high weight

    Famous bodybuilder: http://www.bodybuilding.com/contest_media/14071/43/d/img_09941285407965.jpg

    Kai used to and still does I believe aim for 20 reps in his exercises.

    Also, the main thing I don't like about 5x5 is the fact it's always 5 reps. What if you hit rep 5 and think oh, I can do more! Then you up the weight and can't do 5 as you are too tired? Whereas training to failure you can do sets that go 12, 9, and 8 with 1 forced rep and then you know that you have worked yourself hard.

    if you feel you can do more than 5 your not lifting heavy enough.

    A good bodybuilding 5x5: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=148036063&page=1

    I can't be bothered to go into hyperthrophy rep arguments, it's been proven wrong so many times but stays alive thanks to bro science. If he's a new lifter there's no point him going on any kind of split as its something that you should be doing as an intermediate lifter.

    Arnold's primary workouts were compounds and I don't think anyone can argue about his bodybuilding status.

    The guy that wrote that looks puffy and has almost no definition at all. The same as a typical powerlifter. Coincidence? I think not. Arnold was on steroids, look at CT Fletchers arms. No-one natural could train arms every day and get them that size. Current Mr Olympia Phil heath also trains in the 8-12 rep range. I know plenty of people who train 5x5 and eat a pretty good diet and are seeing barely any results at all. Me and my friend train in the 8-12 rep range (except compound movements) and are seeing gains regularly.

    Oh to be 18 and misinformed...

    http://www.muscleandstrength.com/workouts/arnold-schwarzenegger-volume-workout-routines

    "He would mix things up -- sometimes he'd even work out twice a day. He did a lot of forced reps and pyramids by adding weight to each set. He preferred doing 6 to 10 reps per set and sometimes (to break though plateaus) did 20 sets per body part."

    Has anyone actually watched his workout videos? He tends towards the 6-10 rep range. Most bodybuilders do the same. Have any of you actually watched a bodybuilder work out? Or do you just listen to the advice given on a FITNESS website by ectomorphs?