Why does Atkins work?
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I've been eating a high carbohydrate diet for a long time and am still losing weight, running and cycling longer and faster, consistently high energy levels, no complaints or issues. For example, yesterday I ate over 700 grams of carbohydrates - no biggie. Carbs aren't the enemy here, and people need to get that through their thick skulls. It is so idiotic to think that in the paleolithic era we ate boatloads of meat and fats, salty bacon and fried eggs, etc. The fact of the matter is that we were much like our primate cousins who eat a highly plant-based diet FULL of carbohydrates and sugars. SUGAR. Not the refined crap in foods nowadays, but natural sugars coming from fruits, berries, vegetables, leafy greens, root vegetables, etc. Nuts were not even a major go-to food for us as they took too long to crack open the shells to get at the "meat" of the nut. Very rarely do primates (and I'm still using them as a parallel to how we most likely lived long ago) eat meat or high-fat, high-protein foods, but they do in some cases/when it is available.
Basically, Atkins is barking up the wrong tree for what is truly healthy for us as humans. Sounds like most people in the "maintenance" stage of Atkins are more along a Paleo line of nutrition than anything else, but the early stages, or weight loss stages, are downright nasty and dangerous. Treat your body right and it will treat you right.0 -
IMO peps going on Adkins do two things....
1. eat at a deficit
2. finally avoid processed carbs.
I think it's really not eating food that comes out of a box that makes the difference.
Agreed.0 -
Actually, you don't need carbs and fat to build protein, you need amino acids, which come from protein.
Low carb works for some people, and if used in the short term very low carb diets coupled with adequate protein do allow them to lose fat while retaining muscle mass. When the body is in starvation mode it breaks down protein into amino acids to generate the minimal amount of glucose it needs for survival (very small amount--the rest of the body can burn fat). So if there is adequate protein/amino acids available via diet such as small frequent meals that contain high protein levels, the body doesn't need to break down lean body mass (protein) into amino acids.
Long term inadequate intake of carbohydrates can cause problems because of the vital nutrients that accompany those carbohydrates can be missing. However, the body actually doesn't have a minimal amount of required carbohydrates per day in order to survive, unless you want to count 0 as a number. Also it is much healthier for our colon to have fiber. Healthy kidneys and livers handle low carb just fine, but some people have suggested that the higher acid produced by the metabolism can lead to bone loss (again, need long term studies to tell if short term low carb effects bone density in the years to come).
More studies are needed to tell if a 6 month to 12 month period of low carb diet is more hazardous to the health than an extra 50-100 lbs.
Some people eat normal or high carb (typical american diet) and still eat like crap, and take in little to no nutrients or fiber. Those who are obese as well, coupled with diabetes, heart disease, htn....will a low carb diet in the short term really cause more of a health issue, if they can eat a "normal" diet once they have reached goal weight?
I don't know, but think short term very low carb is less dangerous if the weight can be kept off, at least compared to doing nothing.
And for the person who thinks low carb causes more foul flatulence---from personal experience I was much more gassy (embarrasingly so) on Jenny Craig than the low carb diet. On low carb diet gas production was tiny, almost zero. At least until I started to add in more fruits and veggies. Don't know if everybody experiences that but unfortunately I did.0 -
Any carnivore that thinks that you need to eat animal protein to get protein is guilty of American/Western diet bias.
Plenty of vegetarian animals are spectacularly muscled beings. A horse doesn't eat flesh to be a running endurance machine. Horses eat plant matter and plant matter alone. A bull or cow has muscle without eating flesh of any kind. All herbivores build and maintain muscles without eating any animal protein.
The "incomplete" protein stuff is a myth. It is promoted still by the Cattle and Dairy Association. It has mostly been abandoned by current science. I'm a vegetarian and I get easily 100 grams of protein a day without eating any animal protein. Vegetables have bits of protein that quickly add up when you are eating vegetables and fruits only.
It's a pet peeve of mine when someone learns I'm a vegetarian and asks me how I get my protein. I do absolutely nothing to get my protein, it is naturally in the vegetables that I eat. At no point during the day do I specifically seek out food that has protein. It is unnecessary and just another point of propaganda for the meat industry. The book to read on this subject is Food Revolution by John Robbins.
If anyone here wants to tell me that animal protein is a necessary part of a human diet, I want to hear them explain how the hell horses are so strong and muscular. Anyone?
Edit: The country of India is mostly vegetarian. Americans forget that vegetarian/vegan lifestyle is sometimes the predominant practice in other cultures. Here, in America, the vegetarian/vegan is under attack as a food elitist. Meanwhile, the U.S. Livestock industry feeds enough plant matter to all American livestock that could feed the equivalent of 8.2 billion human beings. This is a quoted fact from the May copy of Harper's Magazine. The truth is, making cheap meat available to Americans is a selfish action. Let people eat their meat, but let them pay the market price for the meat as it would be determined by the costs of producing it. Allowing $2.9 billion of the $3.2 billion in subsidies for American farmers to fund plant production for the livestock industry is extremely unethical. The Midwestern states of America could feed the planet and produce bottom dollar produce for Americans if our priorities were where they should be. Instead we are using oil reserves and wasting 1,000 gallons of water to produce every pound of edible beef in this country. That's right, it takes 1,000 gallons of water to produce one edible pound of beef in America. . .0 -
I was on Adkins for a few months and lost the weight that I wanted, but after I went back to eating my everyday foods I gained my weight back plus a little bit more.
I didn't know anything about counting my calories, TDEE, deficits or anything else. I just ate my burgers and bacon. Mashed my cauliflower...
For breakfast I might eat 3 sunny side up eggs, 4 pieces of bacon. For lunch, it was usually a pretty fat hamburger patty with a couple of pieces of american cheese melted on top, and probably the same for dinner.
For a comparison, I just entered the above into the calorie counter, it equals to just over 1300 calories. That along with a snack or 2 thrown in, and that would put me right at the calories I'm consuming today (about 1500).
So, at least for me, it was all about the calories...I just didn't know it. Either way, I quit the diet because I was a very angry person without my carbs (not just pasta and bread, but also fruit and a lot of veggies). Unfortunately, it seems when people stop these types of diets, instead of converting to calorie counting, it seems that they always go back to what they were doing before they started (as I did).
I wonder if I had quit Adkins after I lost my weight, and came directly over here to count my calories and eat at a deficit, if I would have maintained my weight loss...0 -
You gained it all back because you didn't follow the Atkins model, just what you believe to think the Atkins diet is which is not. Read my post above to see why.0
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Oh, you eat LOTS of food out of the box on Atkins. Shakes, bars, baking mixes, low carb baked goods. All full of soy and artificial sweeteners.
You don't HAVE to do Atkins that way, but it is very easy to get sucked into it. So you wind up still eating a great deal of sweet foods.
I would recommend Gary Taubes as a resource if you are really interested in how insulin and hormones impact weight
Loss/obesity. They are currently researching which comes first, obesity or insulin resistance.
Is low carb for everyone? Nope. But for people with certain medical conditions, it is a great way to learn to use food as medicine. Johns Hopkins has been treating epilepsy with ketogenic diets for 100 years. The science IS there.
I technically do Keto and did Atkins before all the prepackaged crap was in existence. I lost 100 lbs and kept it off for 18 years. I gained back due to serious lifestyle changes several years ago. I've lost 37 lbs over 3 months on Keto with another 30 or so to go.
I lost 70 pounds doing Atkins, but I was really, really reliant on the products. Then I stopped. Gained 50 of it back. For medical reasons, I decided to try Paleo. Still,ketogenic, still doing well, just no soy protein or artificial sweeteners and more veggies and some fruit. I drop the carbs just low enough to stay in ketosis. More importantly, about an 80% reduction in pain levels, and no more 800 mg of Aleve a day. Next neurologist visit, I hope to start weaning off some of the more toxic daily meds.
I tend to agree that it lowers daily calorie intake. I am having to get creative to get mine high enough. I am just not hungry. Am I 100% all the time? Nope. That's okay by me. I need to learn to live with this way of eating. Pain is an awesome motivator
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Are you talking about long term or short term?0
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Well, the science is well explained in Good Calories Bad Calories by Gary Taubes. you can buy the book on Amazon for about $13 dollars. but get ready for real science. It's apparent however that you don't know how it works and what its about because Atkins is NOT about 'simply a matter of calories in vs. out". Plainly put, the calories in calories out model is loosely based on the second law of thermodynamics which while it works nicely in physics is inapplicable to biochemistry because of the complex response capabilities of living organisms and their driving need for homeostasis across so many systems. Plainly put, carbohydrates behave differently in the body and command distinct priorities from the body that are distinguishable from those of fats and proteins. The human body is designed to gets it energy from 'FAT' through a system called ketosis. alternatively it will get its energy from protein as well by converting proteins in a controlled fashion to glycogen. The body's chemistry is designed to store carbohydrates as FAT when they are present since it cannot store them as carbohydrates. Excess carbohydrates therefore shut down FAT burning responses and turn ON fat storing responses and essentially screw up what is otherwise a well designed system.
however, very few folks on this site will appreciate this science and no medical or dietary professional will accept this either unless they are specially educated. the take away is you can safely and assuredly lose weight by restricting carbohydrates and completely ignoring caloric counts.
you can download a pdf summary of Taubes book from Google and whet your appetite but if you really want the science, order the text book and read it.
Good luck.
This. And by the way, my micros are awesome
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I don't care if it works. It sounds very unhealthy... Just because people are losing weight does not mean they are "healthy". Look at all the cholesterol involved. Eww... I bet their poop / gas stink bad !! lol
On the contrary. My IBS has cleared up, poop is less malodorous, and I am not nearly as gassy. Fermentation in the gut = gas. No sugar to fernent, less gas.0 -
Thanks everyone for your input, I'll definitely look into those sources. I'm not looking to do input as I'm 100% happy being paleo/primal, I was just interested in how it works. I said that the people I know who are having success with it ate at TDEE or above, I meant they ate that much but didn't add their -value from exercise to the calculation, or count calories at all until I asked how many they were consuming. My god mother has lost 120lbs so far in a year, although to me her diet seems very much more paleo than what I imagined Atkins to be like (butter on bacon on cheese!), she eats a lot of green veggies and berries. Her daily calorie count is on average 2000-3000 a day (she's 140lbs 5ft5), but she also walks for half an hour a day on her lunch break, otherwise she's sedentary. I just don't get how she lost that much eating so much, this is why I was asking about the science behind it. Do you think it works better for some people than others?0
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It "works" because it forces the body to use up stored carbs in the form of glycogen (which is stored in the liver and muscles). It then utilizes fats, which are oxidized to form ketones, an alternative energy source.
It's not all the peaches and cream, imho.0 -
Thanks everyone for your input, I'll definitely look into those sources. I'm not looking to do input as I'm 100% happy being paleo/primal, I was just interested in how it works. I said that the people I know who are having success with it ate at TDEE or above, I meant they ate that much but didn't add their -value from exercise to the calculation, or count calories at all until I asked how many they were consuming. My god mother has lost 120lbs so far in a year, although to me her diet seems very much more paleo than what I imagined Atkins to be like (butter on bacon on cheese!), she eats a lot of green veggies and berries. Her daily calorie count is on average 2000-3000 a day (she's 140lbs 5ft5), but she also walks for half an hour a day on her lunch break, otherwise she's sedentary. I just don't get how she lost that much eating so much, this is why I was asking about the science behind it. Do you think it works better for some people than others?
Actually, once you are past the induction phase, it looks a LOT like Primal. I think people stay in Induction because they like the rapid loss, but it isn't really sustainable, which is why so many people quit and gain the weight back. The IIFYM people are correct regarding sustainability, IMO. If there are health issues or personal philosophies involved, something that seems drastic to a healthy person who doesn't subscribe to that particular philosophy seems much more sustainable.0 -
Oh, you eat LOTS of food out of the box on Atkins. Shakes, bars, baking mixes, low carb baked goods. All full of soy and artificial sweeteners.
You don't HAVE to do Atkins that way, but it is very easy to get sucked into it. So you wind up still eating a great deal of sweet foods.
I would recommend Gary Taubes as a resource if you are really interested in how insulin and hormones impact weight
Loss/obesity. They are currently researching which comes first, obesity or insulin resistance.
Is low carb for everyone? Nope. But for people with certain medical conditions, it is a great way to learn to use food as medicine. Johns Hopkins has been treating epilepsy with ketogenic diets for 100 years. The science IS there.
Most low carb experts shun Atkins products. I think if Atkins was still alive he would too. The estate granted naming rights and that company makes junk.
As for only losing glycogen stores. That is bull****. Yeah you lose water weight at the beginning but that is maybe 5lbs at the most. That doesn't explain away losing the significant weight that many do.0 -
Oh, you eat LOTS of food out of the box on Atkins. Shakes, bars, baking mixes, low carb baked goods. All full of soy and artificial sweeteners.
You don't HAVE to do Atkins that way, but it is very easy to get sucked into it. So you wind up still eating a great deal of sweet foods.
I would recommend Gary Taubes as a resource if you are really interested in how insulin and hormones impact weight
Loss/obesity. They are currently researching which comes first, obesity or insulin resistance.
Is low carb for everyone? Nope. But for people with certain medical conditions, it is a great way to learn to use food as medicine. Johns Hopkins has been treating epilepsy with ketogenic diets for 100 years. The science IS there.
Most low carb experts shun Atkins products. I think if Atkins was still alive he would too. The estate granted naming rights and that company makes junk.
As for only losing glycogen stores. That is bull****. Yeah you lose water weight at the beginning but that is maybe 5lbs at the most. That doesn't explain away losing the significant weight that many do.
Takes some practice to become an expert. Doing it right this time around and eating real food.
Also, I am not a lifter, but I know a few who do cyclic keto to improve glycogen storage and help with body fat loss before competitions. Those guys do lots of research too.0 -
Well, that didn't make very much sense. The first thing the body does with carbs (glucose) is use it as immediate ADP, that's energy, then fill glycogen stores in muscle and liver, then if we eat too many overall calories in excess of our TDEE any of those calories can get stored as adipose tissue if excess consumption continues over the course.Well, the science is well explained in Good Calories Bad Calories by Gary Taubes. you can buy the book on Amazon for about $13 dollars. but get ready for real science. It's apparent however that you don't know how it works and what its about because Atkins is NOT about 'simply a matter of calories in vs. out". Plainly put, the calories in calories out model is loosely based on the second law of thermodynamics which while it works nicely in physics is inapplicable to biochemistry because of the complex response capabilities of living organisms and their driving need for homeostasis across so many systems. Plainly put, carbohydrates behave differently in the body and command distinct priorities from the body that are distinguishable from those of fats and proteins. The human body is designed to gets it energy from 'FAT' through a system called ketosis. alternatively it will get its energy from protein as well by converting proteins in a controlled fashion to glycogen. The body's chemistry is designed to store carbohydrates as FAT when they are present since it cannot store them as carbohydrates. Excess carbohydrates therefore shut down FAT burning responses and turn ON fat storing responses and essentially screw up what is otherwise a well designed system.
however, very few folks on this site will appreciate this science and no medical or dietary professional will accept this either unless they are specially educated. the take away is you can safely and assuredly lose weight by restricting carbohydrates and completely ignoring caloric counts.
you can download a pdf summary of Taubes book from Google and whet your appetite but if you really want the science, order the text book and read it.
Good luck.
This. And by the way, my micros are awesome
Atkins aka low carb diet works because it's more satiating and people generally will eat less by default.......not magic. i consume a lower carb diet which represents about 25% of my consumption and sugar demons haven't seen the light of day for years. 0 -
I am not sure why but it works for some people and doesn't work for others. I did it once and I lost 15 pounds right off the bat and then lost nothing else. I do better on low fat diets. Now I am just changing my eating habits to the MFP way. I am older and want to eat for health now not just weight loss. Nice benefit on the MFP I can do both.0
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I lost 60 lbs on the Atkins diet in 9 months. It works because you are not hungry at all. I really at very little, and couldn't tell you what my calorie count was, but I'm sure it was very low. I would never do this to my body again, the constipation and bad breath are not worth it, when as soon as you start eating regular food again you start gaining it back immediately. The only way to keep it off is to continue on this type of diet, and for me that wasn't sustainable. After a few years I have gained it all back plus 30 more, and I really think it has messed up my metabolism. Not a healthy diet by any means but I have to say it does work.0
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I think what you meant was after you came off the low carb diet and started to eat carbs again you were unable to control your eating habits (calories) and gained all the weight back plus an extra 30 lbs.I lost 60 lbs on the Atkins diet in 9 months. It works because you are not hungry at all. I really at very little, and couldn't tell you what my calorie count was, but I'm sure it was very low. I would never do this to my body again, the constipation and bad breath are not worth it, when as soon as you start eating regular food again you start gaining it back immediately. The only way to keep it off is to continue on this type of diet, and for me that wasn't sustainable. After a few years I have gained it all back plus 30 more, and I really think it has messed up my metabolism. Not a healthy diet by any means but I have to say it does work.0 -
http://weightology.net/?p=265 For the good cals, bad cals folks.
Can anyone on Atkins tell me if there is anything regarding refeeds or anaerobic performance? (serious question)0
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