BMR and TDEE question...

cabcab12345 · July 2013

I'm 5'2, 102 lbs. I've got some fat to lose and a waist to slim down. That being said, my goal is only a few pounds. (Before anyone comments that I'm at a healthy weight, I know when my body looks and feels best, and that is when I am a few pounds lighter.)
My BMR is about 1300, and my TDEE is about 1400 (leading a pretty sedentary lifestyle due to a recent yet persistent injury). If I do work out, I'll just factor that into my TDEE and calculate from there. Eating TDEE-15% puts me at about 1100-1200 calories. I've been eating this amount for a couple months now (with a couple dessert indulgences throughout). So my question is this: in order to maximize fat loss, should I eat the 1200 calorie amount which MFP recommends and which fits the TDEE-15% model and go below my BMR, or should I eat my BMR and lose less than a pound a month? I don't think I have the patience or the motivation to see such slow results.
I really just want the midsection fat gone. I want my waistline back more than anything. I was a 24, but am currently just under a 26. Like I said, not much too lose, but being a short small-framed person, even the slightest increase or decrease makes a world of a difference in the way clothes fit.
Thanks for any kind words of advice.

mowu · July 2013

Personal opinion: If I was at or near my goal weight and just aim to lose a few pounds, I would probably not go below BMR but take it slow and eat at the BMR mark.

(actually come to think about it.....I don't think I would go below my BMR in any case)

khannickwechanged · July 2013

#1 Your BMI is 18.7. That's 0.2 away from the absolute bare minimum "normal" BMI. Losing just 2 lbs makes you underweight. You really don't need to lose weight. Maybe you should focus on toning and building muscle rather than vanity pounds that you don't need to be losing. Do some research on lifting weights to lose fat and gain muscle. I don't have any experience with lifting, but there are plenty of people here who do and who would be happy to offer some advice I'm sure.

#2 Your TDEE set to sedentary is 1660. BMR is 1383.

#3. The closer you are to your goal weight, the smaller a deficit you should eat at. Slow and steady wins the race. Which requires patience. TDEE-10% is 1494 and TDEE-15% is 1411. You shouldn't eat below your BMR.

F1TCH1K · July 2013

#1 Your BMI is 18.7. That's 0.2 away from the absolute bare minimum "normal" BMI. Losing just 2 lbs makes you underweight. You really don't need to lose weight. Maybe you should focus on toning and building muscle rather than vanity pounds that you don't need to be losing. Do some research on lifting weights to lose fat and gain muscle. I don't have any experience with lifting, but there are plenty of people here who do and who would be happy to offer some advice I'm sure.

#2 Your TDEE set to sedentary is 1660. BMR is 1383.

#3. The closer you are to your goal weight, the smaller a deficit you should eat at. Slow and steady wins the race. Which requires patience. TDEE-10% is 1494 and TDEE-15% is 1411. You shouldn't eat below your BMR.

I agree, you should incorporate some lifting. It will change your physique and you'll see that more than likely it's not the few pounds that are the problem.

heybales · July 2013

Curious where you got your BMR and TDEE numbers at, I want to remember to NOT allow that site to be recommended since they are that far off normal tables and formulas.

And dittos to points 1, 2, and 3.

I doubt your are sedentary though. 40 hr desk job on your rear all day, 1-2 hr commute. On rear most of evening and all day weekends watching marathon series of whatever?
That's sedentary according to those tables.

kray1429 · August 2013

bump

cabcab12345 · August 2013

Thanks for the replies! As far as the sedentary life goes, I'm only 17 and I'm the best at not moving. Be it computer games or a good book, I spend most time sleeping or staying indoors. I'm an introvert and the whole "being an active member of society" doesn't appeal to me much. But that's for another forum

Anyway, I am aware of my BMI and am happy with it, but I guess I figured the loss of a couple if pounds of fat now would be replaced in about a month when I start building muscle through strength training. Seee you knew it was coming. I know that it's important and I'll get to that.

The TDEE I calculated on the site "If it fits your macros" or "iifym." I had read that the most accurate formula was the Katch-Mc-something one (I forget, but it's on their site; I'd link it, but I'm on my phone). The BMR I've received from a couple of sites now. I rounded down for simplicity. I was advised to take the BMR of the goal weight and use that as a reference.

I follow the 5:2 plan for its health benefits. It involves two days of eating 600 calories and the rest of eating normally. I am never hungry, not even in the morning, so I'm not depriving myself of food. As I increase my exercise (which is never going above 30 minutes a day, because ain't nobody got tiiiiime for that), I plan to up my calories. I understand all of this and the needs of my body. But I guess the thing is that I've heard that nobody should EVER eat below their BMR, and I've heard that it can be perfectly fine so long as you get all the nutrients your body needs and you aren't hungry. Because I'm short, I do just naturally eat less than other people, and tons of people using mfp want drastic weight loss at 2lbs a week and drop below their bmr all the time, and they seem to receive positive feedback and motivation from others. I guess I'm just looking for an objective answer, not a biased one based on my current weight. The health of dropping below bmr shouldn't be relative to weight (unless a person is recommended to do so by a doctor or dietician), so, OBJECTIVELY, is it alright?

Again, thanks for any replies.

cabcab12345 · August 2013

By the way, here's the official HBenedict BMR formula:
Women: BMR = 655 + (9.6 X wt in kg) + (1.8 X ht in cm) - (4.7 X age in years)

Note: 1 inch = 2.54 cm.
1 kg = 2.2 lbs.

Example:
You are female
You are 17 years old
You are 5'2 tall (157.48 cm)
You weight 101 lbs (46 kilos)
Your BMR = 655 + 412.8 + 283.46 - 79.9 = 1,271.36 calories/day
So my BMR at 101 lbs is under 1300. When I calculated it, I entered my weight at 102 and got 1300, though.

But I guess at this point I will start maintenance and toning. It's just been kind of confusing, because when I was a little lighter, I had an athletic build, but I ate junk all the time and never worked out. So to all of a sudden have to deal with it has been kind of weird. I'm just going to have to do my best to focus on how I look rather than the number on the scale. I'm still going to try keeping the fasting days, though, because I want the health benefits. But I'll just up my calorie intake on the other days to account for the deficit and my workouts. This should put me at around 1370 calories a day five days a week, and 600 a day two days a week. We'll see where this gets me I guess. But I genuinely find it hard to eat so much without cramming in granola bars and weight watchers desserts to reach that amount. Agghhh so frustrating. Damn my laziness and my sweet tooth. I could live off of cake. Or rather die prematurely off of cake.

*Sorry if my other answer was *****y, I just was kind of defensive about my calculations. You can't trust all the calculators and I did my research.

I don't know.

pluckabee · August 2013

You need to read this:
http://www.nerdfitness.com/blog/2011/07/21/meet-staci-your-new-powerlifting-super-hero/

then this:
http://www.amazon.com/New-Rules-Lifting-Women-ebook/dp/B004IE9RGC/

sijomial · August 2013

You should NOT be doing 5:2 as you are a teenager.

"I wouldn’t recommend it for children or teenagers, as they are still growing." - Dr Michael Mosley

http://thefastdiet.co.uk/michael-answers-frequently-asked-questions/ - Who is not advised to do IF?

If you were my daughter I would advise you to stop focussing on restricting calories and instead focus on being less sedentary.

heybales · August 2013

By the way, here's the official HBenedict BMR formula:
Women: BMR = 655 + (9.6 X wt in kg) + (1.8 X ht in cm) - (4.7 X age in years)

Note: 1 inch = 2.54 cm.
1 kg = 2.2 lbs.

Example:
You are female
You are 17 years old
You are 5'2 tall (157.48 cm)
You weight 101 lbs (46 kilos)
Your BMR = 655 + 412.8 + 283.46 - 79.9 = 1,271.36 calories/day
So my BMR at 101 lbs is under 1300. When I calculated it, I entered my weight at 102 and got 1300, though.

But I guess at this point I will start maintenance and toning. It's just been kind of confusing, because when I was a little lighter, I had an athletic build, but I ate junk all the time and never worked out. So to all of a sudden have to deal with it has been kind of weird. I'm just going to have to do my best to focus on how I look rather than the number on the scale. I'm still going to try keeping the fasting days, though, because I want the health benefits. But I'll just up my calorie intake on the other days to account for the deficit and my workouts. This should put me at around 1370 calories a day five days a week, and 600 a day two days a week. We'll see where this gets me I guess. But I genuinely find it hard to eat so much without cramming in granola bars and weight watchers desserts to reach that amount. Agghhh so frustrating. Damn my laziness and my sweet tooth. I could live off of cake. Or rather die prematurely off of cake.

*Sorry if my other answer was *****y, I just was kind of defensive about my calculations. You can't trust all the calculators and I did my research.
I don't know.

See, you are still misunderstanding something.

BMR starts the math, and yes that is an old formula from 1919 study.

But you then take an activity factor times that BMR to estimate TDEE - and there is no way for you to get from 1300 rounded down BMR to 1370 TDEE.

More likely, you have really misunderstood the meaning behind those acronyms. Check out MFP - Apps - BMR Calc.
Notice the description.

BMR is what your body would like to burn if you slept deep all day long, and no repair work, just basic functions of life.

TDEE is everything, including BMR, your body expends energy on. That's what you need to eat daily.

So use MFP the way it's been intended, and as Sijomial points out, that 5:2 diet method is not good for teenagers still growing. Those health benefits are for adults with fully developed systems already. Doesn't matter if you aren't hungry or not, not good.

So set MFP to Activity level of Sedentary since you are it sounds like.
Set weight loss goal to Maintain.
When you do get exercise in, log it and eat it back and reach your goal.

Focus on lifting heavy things, even if that means your body weight right now, using your biggest lower body muscles first.

That setup will force body to make some improvements while using fat for energy needs, so inches will drop. At first scale may actually go up at same time with added water weight, which is increasing your metabolism actually. Then just inches will drop.

Oh, the MFP Mifflin BMR used is about 5% more accurate than Harris BMR.

cabcab12345 · August 2013

The MFP BMR calculated for me was actually 1,194, so hey, if that's more accurate, I'll use that. However, the other formulas I've seen have given me around 1300. I understand the terms perfectly. I am aware that the factor for a sedentary individual is 1.2, which, when multiplied by 1,194, results in 1433. Around 1400.
I am also aware that muscle weighs more than fat, our bodies retain water, and that the more muscle I have, the more I need to eat.
It's all about trial and error. Starting Monday, I'm going to be adding strength training every alternate day, and cardio on the others with one resting day.
I'm planning to eat anywhere from 1200-1400 calories everyday plus exercise calories. This way if my exercise calories are overcalculated, I don't gain. I'll be eating pre and post workout snacks in the evening, and I'll be tracking my macronutrients as well, trying to include more protein in my diet (which is surprisingly hard to do).
My strength training will be coming from the p90x dvds.
I appreciate everyone taking the time to comment. It helped me to realize that I was simply delaying strength training because I don't enjoy it very much

But I know that diet alone will not get me the body that I want, and I'm just going to have to put up with it. I do wish I like weight-lifting more. It's just an hour of the same thing. *sigh* Oh well.
Ultimately, I started this whole health journey about a year ago. I was a normal weight, but I had simply had a harder time transitioning from the "I can eat anything I want and not notice anything" phase to the "I need to eath healthy foods in healthy portions" phase. It hasn't been easy, and it took a lot of misunderstanding, miscalculation, and misinformation, but everyday I learned something new and was able to improve. Now, I know how long it takes to see results, how much of what I should eat, and where I'll be a month from now at all times.
Everyone just needs to find what works for them. It's funny, because this whole post was originally supposed to be about a simple question. I just wanted to know if a person could ever eat below their BMR. Thanks to those of you who offered friendly advice, though.

shadus · August 2013

At the amount you have to lose, you're better off doing it slowly. .5 lb to 1lb at a time... as you get closer to your goal weight it increasingly becomes harder to lose large amounts quickly. Doing it slowly also decreases the chance of regain.

BMR and TDEE question...

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