TDEE and BMR Questions - Help!

That's the trouble with all these TDEE calculators, each one gives a different number. Mine was 2800 as I exercise 6 days a week, I never ate that much before my diet. The TDEE calculator cannot take into account how much you exercise or how much you burn during exercise.
I would rather log my exercise and eat back the calories if I feel like it.

Hey guys!

Well, I've recently been reading all about the TDEE deficit and losing weight, etc etc. Well, I've used the calculator.. Apparently my TDEE is 1967, and my BMR is 1430. What's confusing me is that I rarely ate more than the 1900 even when not dieting. This confuses the crap out of me. LoL. I've always been one to count calories in everything I'm eating, and watch what I'm eating.. but I just don't understand.
According to these numbers, where should I be eating around? Right now I'm following the 1200/day, doing crossfit 3x a week, and eating back the calories I burn.. at least most of the time. I've lost 5 lbs this way.. but now I read about the TDEE and BMR and eating more. So confused. Any help would be appreciated. Thank you!!

If you ate around the amount of your TDEE when not dieting, that makes total sense. That is how much you burn on a normal day. The point is to subtract 10-20% off of that to lose weight. For a 20% deficit you should eat 1573 per day. I think it works because it's a deficit therefore you will lose and it's not so much of a deficit that you will feel deprived and end up binging or "cheating". I'm doing it and I think it's what's going to work for me. It's not magic, it's just helpful to lose and not set yourself up for failure.

This is a really good read and will guide you better. (I've copied and pasted it under link)

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=121703981


Calculating Calories and Macro's
Please note - the following should be taken as general advice only and should not be used in the face of medical contraindications. Please consult your physician before starting any diet or nutrition plan.


Basic Terminology
1/ BMR (Basal Metabolic Rate): The amount of calories you need to consume to maintain your body if you were comatose (base level).
2/ NEAT (Non-Exercise Associated Thermogenesis): The calorie of daily activity that is NOT exercise (eg: washing, walking, talking, shopping, working). ie: INCIDENTAL EXERCISE! It is something that everyone has a good amount of control over.
3/ EAT (Exercise Associated Thermogenesis): The calorie requirements associated with planned exercise. Unless someone is doing a whole heap of exercise (eg: two or more hrs training a day) it usually doesn't add a stack of calories to your requirements (30 minutes of 'elliptical training isn't going to do it')
4/ TEF (Thermic effect of feeding): The calorie expenditure associated with eating. REGARDLESS of what myths you have been told - this is NOT dependent on MEAL FREQUENCY. It is a % of TOTAL CALORIES CONSUMED (and 15% of 3 x 600 cal meals is the same as 15% of 6 x 300 cal meals). It varies according to MACRONUTRIENT content and FIBER content. For most mixed diets, it is something around 15%. Protein is higher (up to 25%), carbs are variable (between 5-25%), and fats are low (usually less than 5%). So -> More protein and more carbs and more fiber = HIGHER TEF. More FAT = LOWER TEF.
5/ TEE (Total Energy Expenditure): The total calories you require - and the sum of the above (BMR + NEAT + EAT + TEF).

How much do you need?
A multitude of things impact MAINTENANCE calorie needs.
- Age & sex (males generally need > females)
- Total weight & lean mass (more lean mass = more needed)
- Physiological status (eg: sick or injured, pregnant, growth')
- Hormones
- Exercise level (more activity = more needed)
- Daily activity level (more activity = more needed)
- Diet (that is - macronutrient intake)

In order to calculate your requirements the most accurate measure is via Calorimetry [the measure of 'chemical reactions' in your body & the heat produced by these reactions], either directly (via placing a calorimeter where the heat you produce is measured) or indirectly (eg: HOOD studies where they monitor how much oxygen you use/ carbon dioxide and nitrogen you excrete over a given time). But although accurate they are completely impractical for most people & we mostly rely on pre-set formula to calculate our needs.

NOTE: IF YOU ARE LESS THAN 18 YRS OF AGE - THESE FORMULA WILL NOT BE ACCURATE!There is an energy cost associated with growth / inefficient movement / high surface area:mass ratio. Look HERE for alternatives.
As a teenager I would also STRONGLY suggest you don't obsess on calories and macros! Eat well, exercise regularly, and have fun while you can!



Estimating Requirements
The simplest method is to base your intake on a standard 'calories per unit of weight (usually kilograms)'. Typically:
- 26 to 30 kcals/kg/day for normal, healthy individuals with sedentary lifestyles doing little physical activity [12.0-14 kcal/pound]
- 31 to 37 kcal/kg/day for those involved in light to moderate activity 3-5 x a week with moderately active lifestyles [14-16 kcal/ pound]
- 38 to 40 kcals/kg/day for those involved in vigorous activity and highly active jobs [16-18 kcal/ pound].
For those involved in HEAVY training (eg: athletes) - the demand is greater:
- 41 to 50 kcals/kg/day for those involved in moderate to heavy training (for example: 15-20 hrs/ week training) [18.5-22 kcal/ pound]
- 50 or above kcals/kg/day for those involved in heavy to extreme training [> 22 kcal/ pound]

There are then a number of other formula which calculate BMR. This means it calculates what you need should you be in a coma.
1/ Harris-Benedict formula: Very inaccurate. It was derived from studies on LEAN, YOUNG, ACTIVE males MANY YEARS AGO (1919). Notorious for OVERESTIMATING requirements, especially in the overweight. IF YOU CAN AVOID IT, DON'T USE IT!
MEN: BMR = 66 + [13.7 x weight (kg)] + [5 x height (cm)] - [6.76 x age (years)]
WOMEN: BMR = 655 + [9.6 x weight (kg)] + [1.8 x height (cm)] - [4.7 x age (years)]

2/Mifflin-St Jeor: Developed in the 1990s and more realistic in todays settings. It still doesn't take into consideration the differences as a consequence of high BF%. Thus, once again, it OVERESTIMATES NEEDS, ESPECIALLY IN THE OVERWEIGHT.
MEN: BMR = [9.99 x weight (kg)] + [6.25 x height (cm)] - [4.92 x age (years)] + 5
WOMEN: BMR = [9.99 x weight (kg)] + [6.25 x height (cm)] - [4.92 x age (years)] -161

3/Katch-McArdle:Considered the most accurate formula for those who are relatively lean. Use ONLY if you have a good estimate of your bodyfat %.
BMR = 370 + (21.6 x LBM)Where LBM = [total weight (kg) x (100 - bodyfat %)]/100

As these are only BMR calculations To convert BMR to a TOTAL requirement you need to multiply the result of your BMR by an 'activity variable' to give TEE.
The Activity Factor is the TOTAL cost of living, NOT JUST YOUR TRAINING. Think about it - if you train 1 hr a day - WHAT ARE YOU DOING THE OTHER 23 HRS?! So MORE important than training -- it includes work, life activities, training/sport & the TEF of ~15% (an average mixed diet).
Average activity variables are:
1.2 = Sedentary (Desk job, and Little Formal Exercise)
1.3-1.4 = Lightly Active (Light daily activity AND light exercise 1-3 days a week)
1.5-1.6 = Moderately Active (Moderately daily Activity & Moderate exercise 3-5 days a week)
1.7-1.8 = Very Active (Physically demanding lifestyle & Hard exercise 6-7 days a week)
1.9-2.2 = Extremely Active (Athlete in ENDURANCE training or VERY HARD physical job)

How Accurate are they?: They give rough ball-park figures and are still 'guesstimations'. So the aim is to use these as 'rough figures', monitor your weight/ measurements for 2-4 weeks, & IF your weight is stable/ measurements are stable, you have likely found maintenance.

Using the Above to Recalculate Based on Goals
You then need to DECREASE or INCREASE intake based on your goals (eg: lose or gain mass). It is not recommended to use a 'generic calorie amounts' (eg: 500 cals/ day). Instead this should be calculated on a % of your maintenance. Why? The effect of different calorie amounts is going to be markedly different based on someones size/ total calorie intake. For example - subtracting 500 cals/ day from a 1500 total intake is 1/3rd of the total cals, where 500 cals/ day from 3000 total intake is only 1/6th of the total. The results will therefore be markedly different on an individuals energy level & weight loss. Generally:
- To ADD weight: ADD 10-20% calories to the total above
- To LOSE weight: SUBTRACT 10-20% calories from the total above
Then monitor your results and adjust as required.

Macronutrient Needs
Once you work out calorie needs, you then work out how much of each macronutrient you should aim for. This is one of the areas that is MOST often confused but This should NOT be based on a RATIO of macro intakes. (eg: '30:40:30 or 40:40:20') Your body doesn't CARE what % intake you have. It works based on SUFFICIENT QUANTITY per MASS.

So to try to make it as simple as possible:
1. Protein: Protein intake is a bit of a controversial issue in nutrition. The general recommendations given in the 'bodybuilding' area are nearly double the 'standard' recommendations given in the Sports Nutrition Arena.
The GENERAL sports nutrition guideline based on clinical trials suggest that in the face of ADEQUATE calories and CARBS the following protein intakes are sufficient:
STRENGTH training -> 1.4 to 2g per KG bodyweight (about .6 / pound)
ENDURANCE training -> 1.2 to 1.8g per KG bodyweight (about .8 / pound)
ADOLESCENT in training -> 1.8 to 2.2g per KG bodyweight (about 1g / pound)
BUT researchers also acknowledge that protein becomes MORE important in the context of LOWER calorie intakes, or LOWER carb intakes.
Recent evidence also suggests that protein intakes of 3g/kg help with physiological and psychological stressors associated with high volume or intense training.
One should also note that ADEQUATE v's OPTIMAL is not discussed when it comes to hypertrophy v's performance.
And lastly - you need to consider thermogenics/ satiety/ and personal preference.

So - General 'bodybuilding' guidelines for protein would be as follows:
- Moderate bodyfat and training load = 2.2-2.8g per kg TOTAL weight (about 1-1.25g per pound)
- Very Low bodyfat or Very Low Calorie or High training load = 2.4 - 3g per kg TOTAL weight (1.1-1.35g per pound)
- High bodyfat, high calorie, or low training load = 1.6 to 2.2g per kg TOTAL weight (.75 - 1g per pound)
Anecdotally, as most find HIGHER protein intake better for satiety, partitioning, blood sugar control, and hypertrophy. UNLESS you have medical reasons for lower protein, or unless guided to use the GENERAL sports nutrition guidelines, I would suggest the BODYBUILDING values.


2. Fats: Generally speaking, although the body can get away with short periods of very low fat, in the long run your body NEEDS fat to maintain health, satiety, and sanity. Additionally - any form of high intensity training will benefit from a 'fat buffer' in your diet - which controls free radical damage & inflammation. General guides:
Average or low bodyfat: 1 - 2g fat/ kg body weight [between 0.40 - 1g total weight/ pounds]
High bodyfat: 1-2g fat/ Kg LEAN weight [between 0.4 - 1g LEAN weight/ pounds]
Low calorie dieting - you can decrease further, but as a minimum, I would not suggest LESS than about 0.30g/ pound.
Note 1: Total fat intake is NOT the same as 'essential fats' (essential fats are specific TYPES of fats that are INCLUDED in your total fat intake)...


3. Carbs: For carbs there are no specific 'requirements' for your body so - but carbs are important for athletes, ACTIVE individuals, or those trying to GAIN MASS. [carbs help with workout intensity, health, & satiety (+ sanity)]. This means if you are an athlete involved in a good volume of training I would suggest you CALCULATE a requirement for carbs as a PRIORITY - then go back and calculate protein / fat:
Moderately active: 4.5 - 6.5 g/ kg (about 2 - 3g/ pound)
High active: 6.5 - 8.5 g/ kg (about 3 - 4g/ pound)
INTENSE activity: + 8.5g / kg (more than 4g/ pound)

For 'others' - simply carbohydrate intakes via the calories left over from fats/ protein:
carb cals = Total cal needs - ([protein grams above x 4] + [fat grams above x 9])
carb grams = (above cals)/ 4

Here is a post listing step by step how and why...

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/654536-in-place-of-a-road-map-2-0-revised-7-2-12

Here is a post listing step by step how and why...

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/654536-in-place-of-a-road-map-2-0-revised-7-2-12

I see what you're saying. Did you see my post before? So I'm basically following it in a weird different way.. by eating back the calories I burn while following the 1200/day (before exercise) I end up around 1600. So it's kind of the same except with that calculation, you don't eat them back.

The interesting aspect of TDEE (total daily enegry expenditure) methodology vs NEAT (non-exercise activity thermogenesis) methodology used by MFP is that if you follow either method correctly, you roughly come up with the same daily caloric intake recommendation (assuming your weight loss goal is 1lb/wk. If your goal is 2lb/wk, NEAT will give you a drastically lower daily calorie allotment). The difference, I believe, is whether or not the method you use makes "sense" to you.

Here is a post listing step by step how and why...

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/654536-in-place-of-a-road-map-2-0-revised-7-2-12

I see what you're saying. Did you see my post before? So I'm basically following it in a weird different way.. by eating back the calories I burn while following the 1200/day (before exercise) I end up around 1600. So it's kind of the same except with that calculation, you don't eat them back.

The interesting aspect of TDEE (total daily enegry expenditure) methodology vs NEAT (non-exercise activity thermogenesis) methodology used by MFP is that if you follow either method correctly, you roughly come up with the same daily caloric intake recommendation (assuming your weight loss goal is 1lb/wk. If your goal is 2lb/wk, NEAT will give you a drastically lower daily calorie allotment). The difference, I believe, is whether or not the method you use makes "sense" to you.

I agree that they are very very similar. For me personally, since I just switched to the TDEE method, it seems to be working better. It could just be in my head, but I think for me, the fact that calories burned are pretty much an estimated guess (MFP has a way of figuring it out, but ultimately it's still somewhat of a guess). Plus, I like seeing just a flat #. 1688 is all I can eat. I burn 1 calorie for any exercising I do.

Last thing...if you use TDEE - the closer you get to goal you'll want to be less aggressive and use like TDEE-15% then TDEE-10%.

I've read through this thread and its really helpful. I've got one questions though, my BMR is coming out at 1764 calories and my TDEE is 2114. Now if i take 20% off of my TDEE it would leave me with 1691 calories which is less than my BMR which everyone seems to suggest you don't go below.

Can anyone help??