For A Lifetime...?

RubyRunner14 · August 2013

Hey maintainers! Maybe it's just me, but I am so freaked out about not counting calories the rest of my life. Most days I struggle to not go over my calorie limit b/c of hunger. I was once at a bulk and ate usually maintenance at most (I think I actually did gain fat weight anyways even though I was pretty sure to stay under/at maintenance amount... my carb timing was off maybe?) and after maybe three days I was trying not to eat too much.

I know at Christmas I probably gained three pounds of retention weight after Christmas Eve [I actually did exercise that day, too] that went away within three days after going back to my schedule. But after that began my 5-month plateau.

I want to be able to freakin' live, you know? Enjoy the occasional cucumber slices with ranch dressing, or cookie, or fast food without gaining fat. I've been driving myself so hard since last June... I'm so close to my ideal BF%. I'm very good about healthy options when regularly, and when eating out (which I do maybe one a month... if that), my body cannot handle much processed food anymore, but my hunger meter is kind of off, though.

Carbs are my troublemakers. I know people that can eat oats and blueberries every morning and look ripped... I had to go pretty much to Keto to finally get myself moving.

I am pretty high-energy, I like moving... walking/hiking barefoot is my favorite, going on adventures on bikes, carrying heavy stuff... just like a kid, I suppose... like a sorta-paleo lifestyle. But I can't imagine being able to do so for the rest of my life! I don't enjoy what I do now, driving myself to work out 6x a week, and I don't imagine I'll have all this time and opportunity to do all this outdoorsy stuff year-round, either...

So... How do you do it? How do you prevent weight gain and enjoy life? I'm sorry this sounds like a rant or something, I'm just very curious.

weelamb · August 2013

Glad to hear something more about weight maintenance, but I don't have any advice. The last time I reached goal weight, I knew how to keep losing but not how to maintain with ease. The result is that I gained 15 lb. and am starting again, back to 1200 cal./day. If it works like last time, I'll be close to your situation in a few months - how to maintain without resenting the discipline.

trackmyday1973 · August 2013

You know.... when I joined MFP (it will be a month tomorrow) I said to myself that I have to accept counting calories for the rest of my life. This is just me. I am not saying that everyone that reaches maintanance will follow this.

But for ME only once I have accepted this permanent change..... am I able to be successful.

Who says you can't enjoy all those things you listed. You can....but in moderation.

Again.... I keep saying this....it isn't the type of food that got us here....it is the quantity.

The body is the only true accurate measurement of what goes in your mouth.

Unfortunately, for many of us....if we go over - we gain.

RubyRunner14 · August 2013

Good points, guys.

And yes, very true, track. I was eating way too much, definitely eating too many sweets (900 calories' worth of brownies within an hour, half a box of Milanos, 6+ oreos) which is how I gained weight.

Jestinia · August 2013

I can stand the counting calories part (at least sometimes), but I can't seem to handle staying within just a couple of pounds on the scale. So after having lost down to goal weight and gone up again as much as ten pounds, then losing it again, and doing this several times just in the past few months, I've decided I'm really good at gaining and pretty good at losing, but I suck at staying the same.

So I'm done with maintenance. I'm going to do what I'm good at. I'll just lose weight down to the low end of my healthy weight range and gain and lose from that number. Probably around 110 is good. I'm short and very small boned.

That way, when I've gone crazy for a week or two and gained five pounds plus five pounds of water weight I can do what I've been doing for what seems like my entire life and just go on a 'diet' and count calories until it's gone again. Rinse and repeat. My clothes will fit differently from time to time, but at least I won't be busting out of the top of my favorite jeans and hating how I look like I do when I go up into the high 120s. I don't have a precise definition of where I'm happy with myself, either. I'm no body builder or athlete that needs to have a really low body fat percentage at all times, obviously this wouldn't work for someone like that.

Of course if it kills me I'll know it wasn't healthy. But at least I'll die with ice cream on my face. If I realize it was a bad idea, I'll try to pop back in here on my deathbed and let you all know it wasn't such a good idea before I expire.

nxd10 · August 2013

Jestina -

That yo yo dieting is really bad for your ability to keep your weight down long term. It gets harder and harder to lose if you yo yo.

It sound like moderation is your problem. Eat the brownie. Not three. Followed by oreos. Can you figure out what's getting in your way?

manhn1 · August 2013

Ya know, it's not like people who never really had to deal with weight issues eat and exercise the exact. same. way. from their birth to their death. Just because you lost weight a certain way, doesn't mean you have to eat and exercise that way for the remainder of your life. Life changes and you have to adapt. I think the changes in life and the inability to adapt is the major culprit in why a lot of people regain--not necessarily because they "dieted" and did not undergo a "lifestyle change!!!"

I do believe that being cognizant of what you are eating and how much you exercise is key. Vigilance is a must. I won't be one of those "effortless" people. But you can be vigilant using different tools over your lifetime.

elisa123gal · August 2013

I wonder if you eat at 1200... seems the people that do find they have to eat like that forever or gain. That is why I eat at 1600 and eat back my exercise calories...so I am eating at least 2000 or more a day and I'm losing.

In fact thet amount is the maintenece calories for my goal weight. So when I get there...nothing much will change in my lifestyle. I too want a life.. a cheeseburger and a slice of pizza every few weeks.

Deipneus · August 2013

So... How do you do it? How do you prevent weight gain and enjoy life? I'm sorry this sounds like a rant or something, I'm just very curious.

We're all different so what works for me may not work for you. I've been on maintenance since May of last year. I still log my food but not as obsessively as I used to. I'm not trying to create a perfect historical record since I never go back and look at it anyway after that day is done. I use it as kind of a GPS so that I know what neighborhood I am in. I log right up until I decide what I'm going to eat last and then I don't log the last meal. Why should I? Once I decide to eat it, it's as good as done.

I never did try to be perfect. I don't even WANT to be perfect. I rejected all the "No" diets in the beginning. "No meat". "No white foods" "No this, no that... it's too restrictive. On the other hand, I eat very little meat, very little fast food, very little ice cream.... but I eat it all ocassionally. Perfect is the enemy of good.

grandpoobah12 · August 2013

EMTWL There is a group on here.

I went through a lot, plateaued a lot. Seems like there really is only one way to live at a healthy weight. Sometimes we go about it all wrong. We can get back to where we are supposed to be.

There really isn`t any one special thing about those oats and blueberry people. You are one of them. You just need to get back there.

Songbirdcw · August 2013

I'll try to give my two cents. I actually was in maintanence at the beginning of the year, and decided i wanted to lose a few more lbs after putting on a few lbs of muscle. So I've fluctuated between 5-7 lbs on maintenance since January. I don't really think that is too bad.

I'd say in maintence, you need to monitor your weight and/or inches often to make sure you don't go to far from your goal weight or inches. Maybe you want to weight every month, two wks, every week. You decide. I don't think you will have to track calories for the rest of your life. However, you will need to be conscience of your servings sizes. Especially when consuming high calorie foods, desserts, snacks. Just be mindful of what you are eating, not necessarily the calories. You should know approximately how many calories you generally consume at breakfast and lunch. If you know you ate a pretty healthy and low calorie, breakfast and lunch, then perhaps you can eat a heavier dinner. Also, if you know you were active for most of the day or got a good workout in, then maybe you can enjoy a dessert.

It doesn't have to be complicated. Take what's worked for you when you were still losing and apply it to your maintence phase. If you were exercising 5-6 times a week, maybe you want to decrease it to 2-3x wk if you don't want to lose. However, if you want to eat a little more and get those brownies in you'll have to make your workouts count. So give your self a little wiggle room, but not so much that you end up a size bigger. :-)

soniams · August 2013

I never did try to be perfect. I don't even WANT to be perfect. I rejected all the "No" diets in the beginning. "No meat". "No white foods" "No this, no that... it's too restrictive. On the other hand, I eat very little meat, very little fast food, very little ice cream.... but I eat it all occasionally. Perfect is the enemy of good.

This is so true. When I began my weight loss effort three years ago, I knew I had to establish a sustainable lifestyle. Anything I did to lose the weight had to be what I was willing to do forever in order to keep it off. Diets that restrict specific food groups were not going to work for me. I did have to learn how to eat certain foods in moderation and the bulk of my diet is home cooked meals made from real, unprocessed foods. I still indulge in the occasional treat. I've just learned how to incorporate them into my overall calorie count.

husseycd · August 2013

I wonder if you eat at 1200... seems the people that do find they have to eat like that forever or gain. That is why I eat at 1600 and eat back my exercise calories...so I am eating at least 2000 or more a day and I'm losing.

In fact thet amount is the maintenece calories for my goal weight. So when I get there...nothing much will change in my lifestyle. I too want a life.. a cheeseburger and a slice of pizza every few weeks.

That's the recommendation from fat2fit radio and I love it. You lose a little slower but once you get there, nothing changes.

I've maintained my weight pretty well most of my life within about 10-15 lbs. I've always mentally kept track of calories but was usually about 5-10 lb heavier than I'd prefer. It wasn't until I started actually counting that I dropped those 10 lbs I've been trying to shake for a couple years.(I cut grain out of my diet 80-90% of the time, but I can't guarantee that made a diff or not).

Since actually tracking, I have a better idea of the caloric count of the foods I'm putting in my mouth. And after discovering TDEE, now know how much I should be putting in my mouth (instead of just guessing).

I figure, like working out, it's a habit I should maintain. At least much of the time. Especially if I'm bulk/cutting. I'm sure there will be times I can just eat without tracking. It takes a while to actually gain weight, so if you don't track and put on a few pounds, start tracking again. For the most part, our bodies seem to like to stay at the same weight.

bcattoes · August 2013

I find it unrealistic (for me) to try and maintain a single weight long term. I've always bounced around between 5-10 lbs. When an occasion comes around that involves food and drink, I indulge. I gain a few. I lose it again.

This has been true my whole life until I got lazy and let myself gain 30 lbs!! (first time I've ever beeing "overweight"). :grumble:

Now I'm back to the gain a few, lose a few. I gained 7 back over the 2.5 years I've been "maintaining", so now I'm trying to lose 10 (well, 8 now). I want a little extra cushion in there because Thanksgiving isn't that far away.

But Saturday we are having a pizza part for my grandson's birthday. I will not be counting calories that day. If I gain those 2 lbs back, then so be it. I'll lose them again.

55in13 · August 2013

I was successful at maintenance for decades. Other than one very short spike up and down in my 20s (gained about 40 pounds in 6 months and then lost it in less than 4; I was at a high stress start up working closely with the founder and eating where/what he did), I was at a healthy weight until my mid 40s. I never counted calories except for short stints when I would diet to lose a few pounds. I consider staying within 15 pounds, usually within 10, to be historically successful. I say "historically" because I am not allowing that much range now. Anyway, I used to eat pretty much what I wanted but didn't want too much too often. I would do a New Years crash every year or two and they worked because I didn't have much to lose and I didn't need a lifestyle change. My lifestyle was causing a slow gain but I would erase it with a couple of months of effort every year or two.

My point with that story is that yoyo dieting can work, but the string needs to be short, if you get my drift. One thing I have decided is that there shall be no "fat clothes" for the top end of the range. The new range is to be at or below my goal, which is my current weight. So right now, I am still eating at a deficit. My new range is between (goal - 5) and goal.

As far as counting goes, I have been logging off and on while I lost 55 pounds and for the last month while staying around goal. It is mostly to get a sense of what common things I eat will give me a day well below, near or above TDEE. Unless your diet is incredibly diverse or you just eat mindlessly, you should be able to get to where you know whether a given day will be above, below or pretty much a wash. I will continue to weigh pretty regularly and I wear the same belt almost every day. If I start to go up, I will just be sure that a lot of my days are definitely at deficit.

Jestinia · August 2013

Jestina -

That yo yo dieting is really bad for your ability to keep your weight down long term. It gets harder and harder to lose if you yo yo.

It sound like moderation is your problem. Eat the brownie. Not three. Followed by oreos. Can you figure out what's getting in your way?

I do worry about that, but I also question whether 5 pounds of real weight combined with 5 pounds of water weight is high enough of a gain/loss to qualify as yo-yoing.

And yes, moderation is my problem. I suck at it! Also sometimes I want a break from obsessively counting calories. I figure this will give me that break every few weeks or months. But of course if it gets harder and harder to lose and easier and easier to gain I'll have to think of something else.

csuhar · August 2013

For me, counting calories isn't a big issue. In fact, I find MFP makes it easier because I used to simply do it on a notecard or sheet of paper that I kept leaving at the office, in my other pair of pants, or even in the restaurant. At least MFP lets me log wherever have an internet connection or my iPad.

The big issue is that I don't freak out about how much I eat. I've got my target, which adjusts for my activity, and I try to be near that. I also try to make sure I'm at or below that level more often than I'm above it.

Counting calories has become like my spedometer is in my car. The spedometer doesn't tell me how to drive, but it tells me how fast I'm going so I can adjust if I want to. Counting calories doesn't tell me how to eat. I'm simply aware of HOW I'm eating and can adjust if I want to. Every once in a while, I'll splurge and eat a whole little bag of Jelly Bellies. Counting calories simply tells me what my running total is.

Another thing is that I have not so much a target weight, but a target weight range. Sure, I've got a specific weight in mind, but as long as I'm within what I feel is an acceptable range, I'm not going to stress out.

Onesnap · August 2013

In the fall of 2011 I reached my weight loss goals. I switched over to the maintenance settings on MFP and stopped being really honest about logging. By the start of 2013 I had gained all of the weight back.

Keep in mind I was always a healthy eater and I'm very active. I was never overweight but I wanted to get back to my 2008 weight and a size 8 and fit into all of my old clothes. I travel a lot for work so it was important to reverse direction from gaining weight.

In HBO's 'The Weight of the Nation' they taught us that someone that has dieted before actually has lower calorie needs per day than someone of the same weight/height/age/sex that has never dieted.

So while logging long term seems like a tough concept to wrap my head around I don't want to keep losing the same 20 lbs over and over. I also figured out the hard way that I gain when following maintenance.

bcattoes · August 2013

In HBO's 'The Weight of the Nation' they taught us that someone that has dieted before actually has lower calorie needs per day than someone of the same weight/height/age/sex that has never dieted.

What did they mean by "dieted"? Any loss, no matter how small or how quickly?

Onesnap · August 2013

It doesn't have to be complicated. Take what's worked for you when you were still losing and apply it to your maintence phase. If you were exercising 5-6 times a week, maybe you want to decrease it to 2-3x wk if you don't want to lose. However, if you want to eat a little more and get those brownies in you'll have to make your workouts count. So give your self a little wiggle room, but not so much that you end up a size bigger. :-)

I disagree with the suggestion of cutting down the workouts to 2-3x/week. If someone works a desk job + commuting time they are sitting 8-10 hours/day. Only working out 2-3x/week is not enough to maintain good health, help prevent diabetes and cancer, keep the immune system strong, and do a good mix of strength training and cardio. That's saying that you only need to do something active 2 hours per week...it's not enough.

If it's 2 workouts per week and that's an hour per workout that falls below the CDC guidelines: http://www.cdc.gov/physicalactivity/everyone/guidelines/adults.html

Onesnap · August 2013

In HBO's 'The Weight of the Nation' they taught us that someone that has dieted before actually has lower calorie needs per day than someone of the same weight/height/age/sex that has never dieted.

What did they mean by "dieted"? Any loss, no matter how small or how quickly?

Good question. They showed two women of the same age, same weight. One had maintained that current weight and the other had dieted (reduced calorie intake) to get to that weight. The scientists discovered that the woman who had never dieted required more calories per day to maintain that weight.

You can watch the films online...they were very good! http://theweightofthenation.hbo.com/

weelamb · August 2013

My question: When you eat and exercise so that your daily calorie intake matches what's needed to maintain your ideal weight, how much do you tend to lose in a month? I agree that that's the way to establish healthy eating habits for easier maintenance, but I'm impatient and losing those extra 15 at the rate of a pound per week on 1200 calories per day is attractive!

Also, what is TDEE?

Onesnap · August 2013

My question: When you eat and exercise so that your daily calorie intake matches what's needed to maintain your ideal weight, how much do you tend to lose in a month? I agree that that's the way to establish healthy eating habits for easier maintenance, but I'm impatient and losing those extra 15 at the rate of a pound per week on 1200 calories per day is attractive!

Also, what is TDEE?

Since you only have 15 lbs to lose I would suggest you put your settings to lose 1lb or .5lbs/week. If you lose the weight slow you are more likely to keep it off. I would not rush the process and doctors would never suggest for you to lose more than 1lb/week.

It looks like you are a new member too so make sure that you understand that the 1,200 is actually your NET if you do any type of physical activity during the day.

This would mean:

eat: 1,200 calories
- 500 calorie workout

700 calories net
+500 calories in food

= 1,200 NET

So in fact you're taking in more than 1,200 calories per day. If you're not eating back your exercise calories you're falling below 1,200 NET and eating a deficit to a built- in deficit that MFP provides. Speeding up the process as you have put it only makes it more likely that you'll gain it all back plus extra when you stop.

Onesnap · August 2013

My question: When you eat and exercise so that your daily calorie intake matches what's needed to maintain your ideal weight, how much do you tend to lose in a month? I agree that that's the way to establish healthy eating habits for easier maintenance, but I'm impatient and losing those extra 15 at the rate of a pound per week on 1200 calories per day is attractive!

Also, what is TDEE?

Here's a forum post on TDEE:

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/1009266-what-is-tdee

55in13 · August 2013

In HBO's 'The Weight of the Nation' they taught us that someone that has dieted before actually has lower calorie needs per day than someone of the same weight/height/age/sex that has never dieted.

What did they mean by "dieted"? Any loss, no matter how small or how quickly?

There does appear to be something to this. Here is a long thread complete with explanations and links to legitimate research and studies:
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/1077746-starvation-mode-adaptive-thermogenesis-and-weight-loss

But it is not all gloom and doom IMO. It basically says that running a high deficit for a long time might reduce your metabolic rate as much as 15% and it can take months or years to return to the previous level. That means most of us will get a reduction of less than 15% if we get one at all. I think I did get a small reduction; toward the end when I was trying to come in slow I was losing even slower than the numbers said I should. But I was still losing and my maintenance calories seem to be pretty close to the calculated values but a little below.

bcattoes · August 2013

In HBO's 'The Weight of the Nation' they taught us that someone that has dieted before actually has lower calorie needs per day than someone of the same weight/height/age/sex that has never dieted.

What did they mean by "dieted"? Any loss, no matter how small or how quickly?

There does appear to be something to this. Here is a long thread complete with explanations and links to legitimate research and studies:
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/1077746-starvation-mode-adaptive-thermogenesis-and-weight-loss

But it is not all gloom and doom IMO. It basically says that running a high deficit for a long time might reduce your metabolic rate as much as 15% and it can take months or years to return to the previous level. That means most of us will get a reduction of less than 15% if we get one at all. I think I did get a small reduction; toward the end when I was trying to come in slow I was losing even slower than the numbers said I should. But I was still losing and my maintenance calories seem to be pretty close to the calculated values but a little below.

That's why I asked. I would think whether, or how much, your metabolism is affected by weight loss would vary greatly based on how big a deficit you run, how much you lose and how active you are during the loss.

55in13 · August 2013

In HBO's 'The Weight of the Nation' they taught us that someone that has dieted before actually has lower calorie needs per day than someone of the same weight/height/age/sex that has never dieted.

What did they mean by "dieted"? Any loss, no matter how small or how quickly?

There does appear to be something to this. Here is a long thread complete with explanations and links to legitimate research and studies:
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/1077746-starvation-mode-adaptive-thermogenesis-and-weight-loss

But it is not all gloom and doom IMO. It basically says that running a high deficit for a long time might reduce your metabolic rate as much as 15% and it can take months or years to return to the previous level. That means most of us will get a reduction of less than 15% if we get one at all. I think I did get a small reduction; toward the end when I was trying to come in slow I was losing even slower than the numbers said I should. But I was still losing and my maintenance calories seem to be pretty close to the calculated values but a little below.

That's why I asked. I would think whether, or how much, your metabolism is affected by weight loss would vary greatly based on how big a deficit you run, how much you lose and how active you are during the loss.

One takeaway from me. I lost 55 pounds at a rapid rate. I think my metabolic rate dropped a little and it may take some time to get it back to normal. I think I lost a little muscle along with the fat and it may take some time and effort to get it back. But if you asked me if I would do it again knowing that, the answer is yes. I failed several times at trying to do it slow and steady. That works for some, but not for me. It is something to factor into a decision, not something that negates an option entirely IMO.

weelamb · August 2013

My question: When you eat and exercise so that your daily calorie intake matches what's needed to maintain your ideal weight, how much do you tend to lose in a month? I agree that that's the way to establish healthy eating habits for easier maintenance, but I'm impatient and losing those extra 15 at the rate of a pound per week on 1200 calories per day is attractive!

Also, what is TDEE?

Here's a forum post on TDEE:

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/1009266-what-is-tdee

weelamb · August 2013

Okay, so after I clicked for the quote, I didn't see where to add my comment. I want to say thank you for the link to learn about TDEE - very helpful - and thank you again!

stines72 · August 2013

as one of my MFP friends so accurately described... maintenance doesnt mean staying EXACTLY the same for the rest of your life. you may gain a few pounds and lose them again. that is what maintenance is. maintaining your weight within a certain spectrum. since reaching my goal i have gained 2-3 lb, lost 2-3 lb, here and there. you cant realistically maintain your exact ideal bodyfat % for a life, the human body is more complicated than that.

and also - why not have a planned un-logged day every once in a while? i do that every weekend. i make sure to log well during the week and every saturday i will eat what i want when i want it. not a binge, but if i want a sandwich i will make one and put what i want on it. trust me when i say it is pretty hard to eat 3,500 OVER your TDEE and gain a whole pound of fat from one day. of course you dont have to do that every week, thats just what i personally do. maybe once a month would be more suited to you? it just helps keep your mind free from feeling imprisoned by logging day in and day out.

Unknown · August 2013

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For A Lifetime...?

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