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Question regarding high fat ratio??
ironwomanrc
Posts: 4 Member
I would appreciate some help on this. I am trying to figure out a successful ratio to follow. I would prefer a low-carb diet as bread is my weakness-I crave it and it makes me very bloated. I have currently inputted a ratio of 20% carbs, 45% proteins and 35% fats. By fats I stick to the good fats (olive oil, nuts, avocado) and I find that this makes me feel quite full. I am on a 1320 calorie diet. Is there any concern with having such a high fat ratio in my diet? Any advice is appreciated! Thanks.
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Replies
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People's bodies can react differently to fats. For example, fat is my enemy, not carbs...not because I crave carbs, but because my body doesn't handle fats as well....regardless of me trying to stick to poly and mono-unsaturated fats. So, for me, I typically try and keep my fats at 20% or lower. However, 35% isn't too bad, so I don't see an issue. Then again, I am not a doctor or nutritionist, so I am not sure what your body prefers. My wife, as one more example, does fine with fats and protein...but carbs affect per the worst.0
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I eat very low carb and my ratio is around 5% Carbs, 25% Protein, and 70% Fat. I am loving it! I have done a TON of research and eating fat is good for you. Your body is less likely to hold onto fat when you are eating fat. Lowering your carbs is a great direction. However you probably want to reverse your protein and fat percentages and go for more fat than protein. Too much protein can cause the same issues with bloating and not feeling great as carbs do. Don't shy away from fat though that seems completely backwards according to today's thinking!
In short...fat is not bad! It keeps you fuller for longer! My husband went from eating low calorie/low fat diet at 2200 calories and always being hungry to eating high fat/low carb and just eating when hungry, his calories went down naturally to 1800 cals or so.0 -
That's a good question, I'll be interested to see what responses you get.
Not long ago, I read someplace* on the message boards, that someone had posted the exact question you asked. She had asked her doctor, and her doctor's advice was: 30% Carbohydrates, 40% Protein, and 30% Fats. These are the numbers that I am using and I have had a positive experience with them.
MFP gives you WAY to many carbs! I believe for the same program I am doing, where I am TRYING to keep my carbs down to 90... MFP has the carbs up to 165!
A friend here showed me how to change the settings for each particular food. When you set your Goal, instead of selecting "guided" which is (recommended), select the other option: CUSTOM. You will be able to set the program at the pace you wish to follow.
Now I'm not sure that the plan that I'm doing is accurate, but it has been successful for me.0 -
Good luck with this. I need the good fats in my diet, and I know what I should be eating. But the MFP database has most everything at ZERO except for saturated fat. Very few foods has values for the unsaturated fats.0
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While you will find almost as many opinions on this as there are MFP members..Dr. Michael Roizen (who partners w/Dr. Oz on a lot of health programs) reviewed High Protein/Low Carb diets. You do lose weight, simply because of calorie restriction, but he says they can be extremely bad for your body. Among other things it tends to cause you to be dehydrated, can cause shortness of breath (especially w/exertion), lack of stamina, it can cause your taste to be thrown off, if continued it can lead to a risk of abnormal heart rhythmns & loss of cardio functions. These symptoms are caused because the diet throws your body into ketoacidosis & puts everything out of whack. They also tend to lack variety.
Bread is also my weakness, so I understand, but you can still get carbs without bread products. You need those carbs for energy. My family has a tendency towards osteoporosis, so I consume more milk because of that. So a lot of my carbs come from milk, but you can also get them from cheese, yogurt, fruit, veggies, brown rice (they make some instant ones now, whole grain pastas, & other products. For me, I know that once I start on bread I just keep eating, so I do try to avoid it.
On my ratio I do custom it at 50% carbs, 25% protein, 25% healthy fats...after doing a lot of research on what the majority of MAIN STREAM experts recommend.0 -
MFP gives you WAY to many carbs! I believe for the same program I am doing, where I am TRYING to keep my carbs down to 90... MFP has the carbs up to 165!
carbs are NOT the devil! our bodies need carbs.. our bodies can store a practically infinite amount of fat (cue the mobidly obese 1,000lb individual); however, as we begin training and exercising, our needs for carbs increase. this doesn't go to say that lower carb diets (~100-125g) do not have health benefits or do not help with weight loss, but low carb doesn't mean NO carbs.0 -
go with 40/40/20.....0
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People's bodies can react differently to fats. For example, fat is my enemy, not carbs...not because I crave carbs, but because my body doesn't handle fats as well....regardless of me trying to stick to poly and mono-unsaturated fats. So, for me, I typically try and keep my fats at 20% or lower. However, 35% isn't too bad, so I don't see an issue. Then again, I am not a doctor or nutritionist, so I am not sure what your body prefers. My wife, as one more example, does fine with fats and protein...but carbs affect per the worst.
I think you just helped me!! last year I was staying around 40/40/30 but then Xmas came and I gained so I started back after the first of the year but went with lower carb and higher fats.....well needless to say Im fatter! I thought lowering my carbs (because that is what everyone advises for a women over 40) would get the weight off! Im going back to what worked for me! Whew! Thank you!0 -
These symptoms are caused because the diet throws your body into ketoacidosis & puts everything out of whack. They also tend to lack variety...
I'm not going to address the rest of the post, though I would take issue with many parts of it, but this needs to be corrected. VLC diets put the body into a state of nutritional ketosis. This is absolutely not the same thing as ketoacidosis, which is a negative complication usually associated with diabetes.
Edit to be a little more clear in my point:
It's a measure of degree. Ketoacidosis is unregulated ketosis, due to the complete or near-complete lack of insulin (hence the connection with Type 1 diabetes). You'll often see blood ketone concentrations in the > 20 mmol levels. Fasting for a month would likely get you in the ~10mmol level, as a normal person. Eating a ketogenic diet will likely put you between 1-5mmol, which is not a disease state.0 -
Thanks everyone. In January I followed a low carb, high protein diet and had great success. I lost 51 pounds in 12 weeks. I was also very careful about not intaking too much fat...but after the 12 weeks I felt so hungry! Thanks for all the input!0
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Thanks everyone. In January I followed a low carb, high protein diet and had great success. I lost 51 pounds in 12 weeks. I was also very careful about not intaking too much fat...but after the 12 weeks I felt so hungry! Thanks for all the input!
That kind of makes sense. The physiology of low carb is as follows:
1. Your body can run on either glucose or ketones for fuel.
2. If you eat under 20g net carb a day, your body will switch from a glucose-based energy metabolism to a ketone-based energy metabolism (benign nutritional ketosis).
3. This means that you're now running on a fatty-acid (from which ketones are derived) based metabolism. This means you need to intake dietary fat. The "normal" number for ketogenic diets is around 65% of total calories (I have some issues with that, but it's a good baseline for simplicity's sake).
4. If you are not eating enough fat, you will be very hungry.
5. If you eat high protein, protein will also convert to glucose via gluconeogenesis -- meaning you can get actually be kept out of ketosis by eating too much of it.
6. If you're frequently out of ketosis, but hovering around the line, you will be hungry -- you are giving your body just enough glucose to not put you in ketosis, but not enough to actually fuel your body on a glucose based metabolism. Worst of both worlds.
Tried to keep it simple.0 -
Why would someone be very hungry not eating enough fat considering fat is not very satiating ? My diet is not ketogenic, but lower in carbs... in the 200g range and is extremely satiating compared to my higher carb diet of 5 years ago. I also normally consume about 200-250g's of protein. Low carb diets and not necessarily keto diets are well known for their satiating appeal and the reason I've asked this question.Thanks everyone. In January I followed a low carb, high protein diet and had great success. I lost 51 pounds in 12 weeks. I was also very careful about not intaking too much fat...but after the 12 weeks I felt so hungry! Thanks for all the input!
That kind of makes sense. The physiology of low carb is as follows:
1. Your body can run on either glucose or ketones for fuel.
2. If you eat under 20g net carb a day, your body will switch from a glucose-based energy metabolism to a ketone-based energy metabolism (benign nutritional ketosis).
3. This means that you're now running on a fatty-acid (from which ketones are derived) based metabolism. This means you need to intake dietary fat. The "normal" number for ketogenic diets is around 65% of total calories (I have some issues with that, but it's a good baseline for simplicity's sake).
4. If you are not eating enough fat, you will be very hungry.
5. If you eat high protein, protein will also convert to glucose via gluconeogenesis -- meaning you can get actually be kept out of ketosis by eating too much of it.
6. If you're frequently out of ketosis, but hovering around the line, you will be hungry -- you are giving your body just enough glucose to not put you in ketosis, but not enough to actually fuel your body on a glucose based metabolism. Worst of both worlds.
Tried to keep it simple.0 -
Why would someone be very hungry not eating enough fat considering fat is not very satiating ? My diet is not ketogenic, but lower in carbs... in the 200g range and is extremely satiating compared to my higher carb diet of 5 years ago. I also normally consume about 200-250g's of protein. Low carb diets and not necessarily keto diets are well known for their satiating appeal and the reason I've asked this question.Thanks everyone. In January I followed a low carb, high protein diet and had great success. I lost 51 pounds in 12 weeks. I was also very careful about not intaking too much fat...but after the 12 weeks I felt so hungry! Thanks for all the input!
That kind of makes sense. The physiology of low carb is as follows:
1. Your body can run on either glucose or ketones for fuel.
2. If you eat under 20g net carb a day, your body will switch from a glucose-based energy metabolism to a ketone-based energy metabolism (benign nutritional ketosis).
3. This means that you're now running on a fatty-acid (from which ketones are derived) based metabolism. This means you need to intake dietary fat. The "normal" number for ketogenic diets is around 65% of total calories (I have some issues with that, but it's a good baseline for simplicity's sake).
4. If you are not eating enough fat, you will be very hungry.
5. If you eat high protein, protein will also convert to glucose via gluconeogenesis -- meaning you can get actually be kept out of ketosis by eating too much of it.
6. If you're frequently out of ketosis, but hovering around the line, you will be hungry -- you are giving your body just enough glucose to not put you in ketosis, but not enough to actually fuel your body on a glucose based metabolism. Worst of both worlds.
Tried to keep it simple.
You would be hungry because
1) once you run out of carb energy (glucose) for the day your body is used to it so starts to 'crave' it as it needs energy
2) once it gives up on finding carbs because you deny them, your body is trying to run on fat. It needs fat to be provided whilst it works on getting fat out of your stores ready to use in and amongst/after. If you don't give it enough fat the body has nothing for energy so sends out 'hungry' alarms
3)If there is no eaten fat left and you don't give it to it when hungry, to get the energy to live you will then turn to the protein, which just turns to glucose, then its the same as a carb/sugar spikes insulin up and down causing cravings of hunger. Once all that is used up, back to having nothing for energy so hungry for that reason.
It is not all about what is the most satiating, it is about ensuring there is a constant supply of fuel for the body, but not in excess. Finding this balance is why we calorie count.
There are numerous reasons why too much protein is bad for you, especially if you start to rely on it as your main food group or 50/50 with carbs.
IMHO a ratio that includes 200g carbs and a lot of protein sounds like a recipe for constant hunger.
Cut the carbs under 50 if you can, up the fat to be around 60%+ of your calories and fit the protein in around that, try it for a couple of weeks if it doesn't stop your hunger then at least you can say you tried instead of writing it off as 'fat isnt very filling'
Speaking simply, if you deny all carbs, and get 'just enough' proteim and get most cals from fat the body gets used to burning fat. Makes lots of ketones to help burn fat, it then burns the fat you eat and the fat on your body.
If you give it carbs/protien as fuel it will nag you for those to eat, using fat cells as an absolute last resort. Infact if it is used to protein for energy itll go for muscles before fat as a energy store. Slowing all weightloss.0 -
Thanks for your explanation.....didn't make much sense to me though. I'm not hungry on my diet, but thanks for the concern.
Why would someone be very hungry not eating enough fat considering fat is not very satiating ? My diet is not ketogenic, but lower in carbs... in the 200g range and is extremely satiating compared to my higher carb diet of 5 years ago. I also normally consume about 200-250g's of protein. Low carb diets and not necessarily keto diets are well known for their satiating appeal and the reason I've asked this question.Thanks everyone. In January I followed a low carb, high protein diet and had great success. I lost 51 pounds in 12 weeks. I was also very careful about not intaking too much fat...but after the 12 weeks I felt so hungry! Thanks for all the input!
That kind of makes sense. The physiology of low carb is as follows:
1. Your body can run on either glucose or ketones for fuel.
2. If you eat under 20g net carb a day, your body will switch from a glucose-based energy metabolism to a ketone-based energy metabolism (benign nutritional ketosis).
3. This means that you're now running on a fatty-acid (from which ketones are derived) based metabolism. This means you need to intake dietary fat. The "normal" number for ketogenic diets is around 65% of total calories (I have some issues with that, but it's a good baseline for simplicity's sake).
4. If you are not eating enough fat, you will be very hungry.
5. If you eat high protein, protein will also convert to glucose via gluconeogenesis -- meaning you can get actually be kept out of ketosis by eating too much of it.
6. If you're frequently out of ketosis, but hovering around the line, you will be hungry -- you are giving your body just enough glucose to not put you in ketosis, but not enough to actually fuel your body on a glucose based metabolism. Worst of both worlds.
Tried to keep it simple.
You would be hungry because
1) once you run out of carb energy (glucose) for the day your body is used to it so starts to 'crave' it as it needs energy
2) once it gives up on finding carbs because you deny them, your body is trying to run on fat. It needs fat to be provided whilst it works on getting fat out of your stores ready to use in and amongst/after. If you don't give it enough fat the body has nothing for energy so sends out 'hungry' alarms
3)If there is no eaten fat left and you don't give it to it when hungry, to get the energy to live you will then turn to the protein, which just turns to glucose, then its the same as a carb/sugar spikes insulin up and down causing cravings of hunger. Once all that is used up, back to having nothing for energy so hungry for that reason.
It is not all about what is the most satiating, it is about ensuring there is a constant supply of fuel for the body, but not in excess. Finding this balance is why we calorie count.
There are numerous reasons why too much protein is bad for you, especially if you start to rely on it as your main food group or 50/50 with carbs.
IMHO a ratio that includes 200g carbs and a lot of protein sounds like a recipe for constant hunger.
Cut the carbs under 50 if you can, up the fat to be around 60%+ of your calories and fit the protein in around that, try it for a couple of weeks if it doesn't stop your hunger then at least you can say you tried instead of writing it off as 'fat isnt very filling'
Speaking simply, if you deny all carbs, and get 'just enough' proteim and get most cals from fat the body gets used to burning fat. Makes lots of ketones to help burn fat, it then burns the fat you eat and the fat on your body.
If you give it carbs/protien as fuel it will nag you for those to eat, using fat cells as an absolute last resort. Infact if it is used to protein for energy itll go for muscles before fat as a energy store. Slowing all weightloss.0 -
Thanks for your explanation.....didn't make much sense to me though. I'm not hungry on my diet, but thanks for the concern.
Let me see if I can explain it a little more clearly. Let's say you need 200 "units" of energy per day, regardless of where you get that energy from.
As you say, you eat around 200g of carbs a day, and don't have hunger issues. Your body is running on a glucose metabolism, and assuming you're not gaining weight, you're getting the right amount of energy from the food you take in. Now your body has the 200 units of energy it needs - 175 units from the carbs you eat, and 25 units from the protein you eat (given that foods aren't perfectly metabolized).
That's you on a glucose metabolism.
If you were to restrict carbs -- such that you were getting around 20g net carbs per day, keeping protein intake the same, you'll be getting around 40 units of glucose a day. That's a very small amount of glucose -- small enough for your body to start producing ketone bodies and burning ketones for energy. Now your body has 40 units of glucose, and 160 units of ketones, which are made from the breakdown of fatty acids - both dietary and stored. It's found it's 200 units of energy, and you're feeling good and have energy.
That's you in ketosis.
Now imagine the second one, only you don't intake a whole lot of fat, and instead eat a lot more protein. Now your body is getting around 70 units of energy from glucose a day (carbohydrate plus your added fat). One of two things can happen -- you'll either stop producing ketone bodies, because you're not restricting glucose energy enough to get your body to switch into ketosis, and you'll lose that extra 130 units of energy you were getting from ketones, or (less likely) you'll stay in ketosis, but since you're not eating enough dietary fat (and metabolizing stored fat is harder than dietary), you might only get, say, 80 units of energy from ketones, for a total of 150 units of energy. Both of these are under your daily energy needs -- so your body is going to say, "whoa, I need more energy". Then you get hungry.
For what it's worth, I wouldn't personally call 200g carbs/day to be in the "low carb" category, but I'm not sure that it's really a well defined term in general. I'd say it's generally lower than the majority of people eat.
As for whether or not dietary fat is satiating, one of the main benefits of a ketogenic diet is the generally high levels of satiety, and I think many would find dietary fat to be far more satiating than dietary carbohydrate. As somewhat controversial as ketogenic diets are, the satiating nature of them is something people tend to agree upon. I recognize, however, that it's highly individual -- so if you've found a level you're comfortable with, and it's working for you, that's a great thing.0 -
People's bodies can react differently to fats. For example, fat is my enemy, not carbs...not because I crave carbs, but because my body doesn't handle fats as well....regardless of me trying to stick to poly and mono-unsaturated fats. So, for me, I typically try and keep my fats at 20% or lower. However, 35% isn't too bad, so I don't see an issue. Then again, I am not a doctor or nutritionist, so I am not sure what your body prefers. My wife, as one more example, does fine with fats and protein...but carbs affect per the worst.
I think you just helped me!! last year I was staying around 40/40/30 but then Xmas came and I gained so I started back after the first of the year but went with lower carb and higher fats.....well needless to say Im fatter! I thought lowering my carbs (because that is what everyone advises for a women over 40) would get the weight off! Im going back to what worked for me! Whew! Thank you!
Low carb isn't for everyone and it's not the sort of thing that you press the start button & let it go unattended.
As far as pitfalls, there's carb creep to consider & that combined with high fat is where folks run into trouble (I hear, I've not gained on LCHF, only lost & continuing to maintain).
I read that high fat + too many carbs (exact amount is different for everyone) = weight gain
edited for typos0 -
Thanks magee but I believe my point is being missed. Your hypothesis is that only a ketogenic diet and not a lower carb diet creates satiety which is not true. Pretty much all lower carb including a very low carb intake creates satiety........and the reason many studies don't restrict calories in the low carb groups..........the low carb groups carb intake is quite wide. 200g's for me is around 25% which would be considered lower carb medically.Thanks for your explanation.....didn't make much sense to me though. I'm not hungry on my diet, but thanks for the concern.
Let me see if I can explain it a little more clearly. Let's say you need 200 "units" of energy per day, regardless of where you get that energy from.
As you say, you eat around 200g of carbs a day, and don't have hunger issues. Your body is running on a glucose metabolism, and assuming you're not gaining weight, you're getting the right amount of energy from the food you take in. Now your body has the 200 units of energy it needs - 175 units from the carbs you eat, and 25 units from the protein you eat (given that foods aren't perfectly metabolized).
That's you on a glucose metabolism.
If you were to restrict carbs -- such that you were getting around 20g net carbs per day, keeping protein intake the same, you'll be getting around 40 units of glucose a day. That's a very small amount of glucose -- small enough for your body to start producing ketone bodies and burning ketones for energy. Now your body has 40 units of glucose, and 160 units of ketones, which are made from the breakdown of fatty acids - both dietary and stored. It's found it's 200 units of energy, and you're feeling good and have energy.
That's you in ketosis.
Now imagine the second one, only you don't intake a whole lot of fat, and instead eat a lot more protein. Now your body is getting around 70 units of energy from glucose a day (carbohydrate plus your added fat). One of two things can happen -- you'll either stop producing ketone bodies, because you're not restricting glucose energy enough to get your body to switch into ketosis, and you'll lose that extra 130 units of energy you were getting from ketones, or (less likely) you'll stay in ketosis, but since you're not eating enough dietary fat (and metabolizing stored fat is harder than dietary), you might only get, say, 80 units of energy from ketones, for a total of 150 units of energy. Both of these are under your daily energy needs -- so your body is going to say, "whoa, I need more energy". Then you get hungry.
For what it's worth, I wouldn't personally call 200g carbs/day to be in the "low carb" category, but I'm not sure that it's really a well defined term in general. I'd say it's generally lower than the majority of people eat.
As for whether or not dietary fat is satiating, one of the main benefits of a ketogenic diet is the generally high levels of satiety, and I think many would find dietary fat to be far more satiating than dietary carbohydrate. As somewhat controversial as ketogenic diets are, the satiating nature of them is something people tend to agree upon. I recognize, however, that it's highly individual -- so if you've found a level you're comfortable with, and it's working for you, that's a great thing.0 -
Thanks magee but I believe my point is being missed. Your hypothesis is that only a ketogenic diet and not a lower carb diet creates satiety which is not true.
Please go back and re-read my initial post if you have a moment. What I said was, if you are eating a ketogenic diet, and not intaking enough fat, you will be hungry. That's because ketogenic diets rely on fat for energy. If you are trying to eat ketogenically, not eating enough fat, and replacing it with protein, you'll likely be bumped out of ketosis and be hungry because you're not getting enough glucose. I'm specifically dealing with people that are in ketogenic and near-ketogenic diets. It was specifically in regards to the following comment:Thanks everyone. In January I followed a low carb, high protein diet and had great success. I lost 51 pounds in 12 weeks. I was also very careful about not intaking too much fat...but after the 12 weeks I felt so hungry! Thanks for all the input!Pretty much all lower carb including a very low carb intake creates satiety........and the reason many studies don't restrict calories in the low carb groups..........the low carb groups carb intake is quite wide. 200g's for me is around 25% which would be considered lower carb medically.
I don't have much if anything invested in whether or not 200g is "low carb" or not, though I'm not certain there's an accepted scientific definition for it. To be honest, it's not something I've worried about. If we're talking past each other solely because the post I responded to used the word "low carb", my assumption was that she meant carbohydrate restriction below around 100g. Low carb (<100g) and low fat is a very good recipe for hunger. My assumption that she was that low came from the fact that she lost 51 pounds in 12 weeks. At that amount of weight loss, she was either low-everything and running a crazy deficit, or lost a decent amount of water weight as well, which would indicate VLC diet condition.0 -
I have learned so much from this thread! Thanks to everyone for the comments. When I lost all that weight over 3 months, I was probably eating around 1300 calories a day and i was burning around 1000 a day through exercise 6 days a week. I was really careful not to eat too much sodium and I didnt give myself a day to relax. Definately not a good long term strategy for weight management. I worked out with a personal trainer 3 times a week and did spin classes every morning at 6am...i was determined to lose the baby weight I gained with having my 3 kids in such a short time frame....in the end I ended up tearing tendons in both shoulders which made me unable to exercise all summer....gained 35 pounds back
. So now I am starting slowly and doing some running and no weights. Had 2 months of physio and 2 rounds of cortisone injections. 0
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