Nerves in Stomach desentized after weight loss

An explanation for weight gain after weight loss.


Main Category: Obesity / Weight Loss / Fitness
Article Date: 18 Sep 2013 - 1:00 PDT
:
Nerves in the stomach remain desensitized to fullness after weight loss

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/266206.php

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The way the stomach detects and tells our brains how full we are becomes damaged in obese people but does not return to normal once they lose weight, according to new research from the University of Adelaide.

Researchers believe this could be a key reason why most people who lose weight on a diet eventually put that weight back on.

In laboratory studies, University of Adelaide PhD student Stephen Kentish investigated the impact of a high-fat diet on the gut's ability to signal fullness, and whether those changes revert back to normal by losing weight.

The results, published in the International Journal of Obesity, show that the nerves in the stomach that signal fullness to the brain appear to be desensitized after long-term consumption of a high-fat diet.

"The stomach's nerve response does not return to normal upon return to a normal diet. This means you would need to eat more food before you felt the same degree of fullness as a healthy individual," says study leader Associate Professor Amanda Page from the University's Nerve-Gut Research Laboratory.

"A hormone in the body, leptin, known to regulate food intake, can also change the sensitivity of the nerves in the stomach that signal fullness. In normal conditions, leptin acts to stop food intake. However, in the stomach in high-fat diet induced obesity, leptin further desensitizes the nerves that detect fullness.

"These two mechanisms combined mean that obese people need to eat more to feel full, which in turn continues their cycle of obesity."

Associate Professor Page says the results have "very strong implications for obese people, those trying to lose weight, and those who are trying to maintain their weight loss".

"Unfortunately, our results show that the nerves in the stomach remain desensitized to fullness after weight loss has been achieved," she says.

Associate Professor Page says they're not yet sure whether this effect is permanent or just long-lasting.

"We know that only about 5% of people on diets are able to maintain their weight loss, and that most people who've been on a diet put all of that weight back on within two years," she says.

"More research is needed to determine how long the effect lasts, and whether there is any way - chemical or otherwise - to trick the stomach into resetting itself to normal."
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Replies

  • KateK8LoseW8
    KateK8LoseW8 Posts: 824 Member
    Well, the good news is that it isn't an excuse. I'm planning on counting calories to maintain, who cares what my stomach thinks.
  • iheartbiology
    iheartbiology Posts: 104 Member
    "Well, the good news is that it isn't an excuse. I'm planning on counting calories to maintain, who cares what my stomach thinks."

    Well said!
  • Mokey41
    Mokey41 Posts: 5,769 Member
    There is no end to the drivel you can dig up!
  • Minnie2361
    Minnie2361 Posts: 281 Member
    There is no end to the drivel you can dig up!

    Since you consider Science Research drivel why not find somewhere else to post and somewhere to happen,
  • SezxyStef
    SezxyStef Posts: 15,270 Member
    There is no end to the drivel you can dig up!

    Since you consider Science Research drivel why not find somewhere else to post and somewhere to happen,

    Science probably done at the behest of a big pharmacutical company hoping that they can design a drug out of this research and sell it...just because one group says it doesn't make it so...and just because you copy and paste from the internet (which we can all do) doesn't make it a good topic for these forums.

    Fear mongering and spreading one side of a study is so close to sabatoging others that you should be ashamed of yourself...esp for a 52 year old woman who probably drank soda while pregnant and drove around in her car without those children being in a car seat let alone a seat belt...so pipe down and go lift something heavy...and leave bacon out of your speals.:grumble: :explode: :grumble:

    BTW the Irish did not turn down the corn it was given to them and then the liberals stopped because they didn't think the Irish should get used to getting hand outs..

    :flowerforyou:
  • Wow... I definitely find this discouraging... Having said that, I am more motivated and working harder than I EVER have before to lose weight and get into shape. I sincerely hope all my hard work and the change in my mindset/diet/lifestyle will help me beat those odds!
  • SezxyStef
    SezxyStef Posts: 15,270 Member
    Wow... I definitely find this discouraging... Having said that, I am more motivated and working harder than I EVER have before to lose weight and get into shape. I sincerely hope all my hard work and the change in my mindset/diet/lifestyle will help me beat those odds!

    Do not take anything this person says to heart I can quote a study that shows that yes 10% of the study regains the weight within a year but that same study also says that as long as the people lost the weight in a good way that was stustainable they didn't and it went on for over 4 years and 48% of the participants kept off most of their weight...

    It's all about doing it in a healthy manner changing your lifestyle to encourage fittness and eating to lose or maintain.

    ETA: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/traumatic-dieting/201201/are-you-really-doomed-regain-your-lost-weight

    "It's from a recently published study of something called the Look AHEAD trial where Tom Wadden and colleagues studied those factors associated with long term weight loss success. The factors? Paying attention to intake, exercising, and applying the education they received from their expert research team. And would you take a look at that graph! By year 4, of the folks who'd lost more than 10% of their weight in the first year, some did indeed gain it back, but 42.2% kept off nearly 18% of their presenting weight for the full 4 years! In fact they kept off virtually all of their year one losses. Moreover, looking at all comers of the trial and not just the folks who lost a pile in year one, nearly 25% of all participants maintained a 4 year loss greater than 10% of their initial weight.

    That's sure a far cry from no one. In fact if those results came from a pill some pharma company would be making billions of dollars."

    Quote from that article
  • dubble13
    dubble13 Posts: 85 Member
    I think if you're losing or have lost weight and can feel full, then it wouldn't be an issue. You're not going to suddenly never feel full again. You'd know if you've had "damage" by now.
  • Minnie2361
    Minnie2361 Posts: 281 Member
    There is no end to the drivel you can dig up!

    Since you consider Science Research drivel why not find somewhere else to post and somewhere to happen,

    Science probably done at the behest of a big pharmacutical company hoping that they can design a drug out of this research and sell it...just because one group says it doesn't make it so...and just because you copy and paste from the internet (which we can all do) doesn't make it a good topic for these forums.

    Fear mongering and spreading one side of a study is so close to sabatoging others that you should be ashamed of yourself...esp for a 52 year old woman who probably drank soda while pregnant and drove around in her car without those children being in a car seat let alone a seat belt...so pipe down and go lift something heavy...and leave bacon out of your speals.:grumble: :explode: :grumble:

    BTW the Irish did not turn down the corn it was given to them and then the liberals stopped because they didn't think the Irish should get used to getting hand outs..

    :flowerforyou:

    It is not fear mongering Stephanie, it is fact that many dieters yo yo. That means they lose the weight and gain it back again. It is common knowledge. If people could keep it off then the diet companies would be out of business. I came across this information before on a web blog and in a documentary "the men who made us thin" which is up on you tube it is 4 parts and I suggest you watch it if you are interested in the subject of weight loss.

    To me having this type of information allows one to develope a strategy , how best to manage the hungries. Is it real hunger or the desentized stomach.
    What foods will keep me full for a longer period of time. Complex carbs or the stuff in the package. Do I have protein, eg lo fat cheese on hand or nuts on hand and keep them in the car, office, after the gym for that day. Protein acts against hunger.

    You see Stephanie Knowledge is Power. For example. We no longer have to hide under the beds when the thunder claps believing the gods are angry. Do you get it???:flowerforyou:
  • Mokey41
    Mokey41 Posts: 5,769 Member
    There is no end to the drivel you can dig up!

    Since you consider Science Research drivel why not find somewhere else to post and somewhere to happen,
    I would suggest the same to you. It's not science research, it's fear mongering and mostly useless information.
  • Minnie2361
    Minnie2361 Posts: 281 Member
    :yawn:
    There is no end to the drivel you can dig up!

    Since you consider Science Research drivel why not find somewhere else to post and somewhere to happen,
    I would suggest the same to you. It's not science research, it's fear mongering and mostly useless information.

    Well I can assume from that you are not a yo yo dieter, you have had nothing but success and have only had to lose weight one time only. Then again maybe you are a yo yo so therefore the anger.:yawn:
  • JDHINAZ
    JDHINAZ Posts: 641 Member
    It's not your stomach that causes you to gain, or lose weight. It's your mind. Learning and practicing smart nutrition, calorie consumption, and fitness techniques is how you succeed. Depending on your stomach to tell you you're full is how most of us for here in the first place. So while your post may be interesting, it fails to remind people that the way to success is through developing and continuing good habits.
  • Minnie2361
    Minnie2361 Posts: 281 Member
    It's not your stomach that causes you to gain, or lose weight. It's your mind. Learning and practicing smart nutrition, calorie consumption, and fitness techniques is how you succeed. Depending on your stomach to tell you you're full is how most of us for here in the first place. So while your post may be interesting, it fails to remind people that the way to success is through developing and continuing good habits.

    I agree with you, but for me it is about knowledge on what is happening that allows strategies to be developed. . A calorie is not a calorie. For me it is choosing the foods that metabolize in the system at a slower rate, the complex carbs, the ones that give the biggest bang/ longest time before breaking down.
    I choose oatmeal in the morning for the reason that it is of a high nutritional value but more importantly it takes a longer time to break down in the digestive system and therefore gives a more gradual energy release, I can get mileage out of that type of food versus Packaged cereals break down to quickly and leave me feeling hungry again within a couple of hours. . So it is a strategy in deciding what to put in the diet that goes the distance.
  • MrGonzo05
    MrGonzo05 Posts: 1,120 Member
    Who cares? Track calories. Own your body.
  • bridgie101
    bridgie101 Posts: 817 Member
    Ignoring the silly flame war in the rest of the thread...


    Thanks for that article, OP. It's a warning, isn't it. It means that a person can be prepared, and say to themselves 'i will not eat till I feel full except maybe on holidays' and simply not require of themselves to feel sated. they don't have to feel like they're missing out, they can say "i've done this damage and now I'm living with it" which is much more empowering.

    there's no reason to eat till you're full anyway. Your stomach can take more food than you need in a day - that's why we get fat to start with. :)
  • anemoneprose
    anemoneprose Posts: 1,805 Member
    obesity studies to date mostly show that people regain. like 95% of the people studied have regained. and new and varied possible reasons for this regain are being discovered all the time.

    ***however***

    we do know that lifelong calorie monitoring, eating certain foods (not getting into that but that's what's been shown), and regular exercise have helped the 5% who kept it off (or that's what that 5% do, not chicken and egging it, there's a correlation anyway)

    ***and***

    most of the studies took place before mfp & other calorie counters were developed and made widely accessible through free smartphone apps. it used to be a pain in the butt to monitor calories. you'd have to be a little odd to stick with it when it was just pen and paper.

    now, i think, more kinds of people are likely to be able to follow through with calorie counting at least. or the difficulty barrier is somewhat lessened. and there is more & more pressure on the food industry to label things accurately, movement in that direction will help too.
  • mathjulz
    mathjulz Posts: 5,526 Member
    The source sounds somewhat believable -- it was a University study and published in an academic journal. The problem is that we're receiving the information third hand, and that can mean that it might be distorted by the agendas of whomever was retelling it. (And everybody has an agenda … not always sinister, but it's there).

    A couple of things stand out. First, the article repeatedly mentions that this is from a "high fat diet." But it does not define a high fat diet. And no, that's not self explanatory.There are a lot of different ideas among a lot of different 'experts' about what is high fat. (I'm betting the original article quantified it; actually, they'd have had to for an academic journal). Not everyone who is obese necessarily eats or ate a high fat diet, either. So how much of this is from being obese and how much from diet?

    Second, I think this report (if not the original article) does not address different reasons for weight gain after loss. It seems to imply that this loss of nerve sensitivity is a dominating factor for yo-yo dieting. It ignores the fact that the diet industry has actually developed to encourage rapid weight loss without learning proper habits, that most people diet to get to their goal and go back to their old ways. Desensitization could be a part of this, but it would be irresponsible to say that it is the only factor, or even one of the largest. There is no way, from this limited study, to support that idea. So, as before, we know that if we want to maintain we need to change our habits (one of those habits might be eating until feeling really full, but others could be eating out of boredom or socially when we aren't really hungry).

    Third, what is the point of this report? To tell people not to get obese, because then they are screwed? Great, except that seems defeating to the many many people who are obese and trying to lose weight. It kind of sends the message that regaining the weight is inevitable, so why bother. Or maybe the purpose is to illuminate some of the challenges of maintaining weight loss. Also a good idea, but only if we then look at ways to help overcome those challenges. Yes, it is interesting, maybe even helpful, for us to understand all the minutae of weight gain and loss, but in the end, it only helps if we can do something about it. Losing weight, and maintaining weight, is still about the balance of calories in vs calories out (oh no, I went there!), so while this may be cautionary - it's more important than we thought to keep tracking once you get to maintenance - it's not critical to our understanding of maintaining a healthy weight.

    And I want to point out one sentence from the article: "Associate Professor Page says they're not yet sure whether this effect is permanent or just long-lasting." So maybe slow and steady is really the way to go (since it's associated with a certain kind of diet, so slow changes while you're paying attention may help in reversing the effect) and we aren't all doomed to gain it back or struggle forever.
  • Minnie2361
    Minnie2361 Posts: 281 Member
    It is a bona fide study , it's results have been carried by a number of news outlets world wide so this is not some drivel nor is it scaremongering the story is out there. . It was funded by the National Health and Medical Research Council. The study took place in Austrailia. It does concern a high fat diet.

    When I read the study to me common sense applied , keep to foods that keep me full for long periods of time,, lots of veggies and some fruit, eat lean meats , avoid junk food and fast food joints notorious for the high fat content in their food.



    Here is another view on the same study which addresses why fad diets don't work as well as two other articles from the same news outlet concerning obesity,




    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-09-16/research-finds-key-to-why-dieters-ultimately-fail/4960536
    A study has found Australians who eat a high fat diet may find it hard to lose weight as nerves that tell the brain the stomach is full could be permanently damaged.

    Dieticians say the findings add to the evidence of the complexity of weight management and help explain why fad diets do not work.

    Adelaide University PhD student Stephen Kentish investigated a high-fat diet's impact on the gut's ability to signal fullness.

    He found the stomach becomes damaged in obese people but fails to return to normal once they have lost weight.


    The research found the stomach nerves that signal fullness to the brain seem to become desensitised after a high-fat diet is consumed over a long period.

    Associate Professor Amanda Page from the university's Nerve-Gut Research Laboratory says only about 5 per cent of the population actually manage to maintain weight loss after a diet.

    "They in fact actually gain within two years plus some more," Associate Professor Page said.

    "We've previously shown that nerves that detect fullness of the stomach are desensitised in obesity and in the current study we've shown that this desensitisation is maintained when we lose weight."

    The nerves which detect the stomach has stretched do not tell the brain it is full as quickly.

    As a result the person will eat more.

    Sensitivity of the stomach never returns to normal

    Associate Professor Page said the study also found the hormone leptin, which regulates food intake, can change the sensitivity of the stomach nerves that signal fullness.

    "In lean individuals it will stop food intake, in obese individuals, that signal won't be present and then after we return to normal diet it only partially returns to normal."

    The study involved two groups of mice.

    One group was put on a low calorie diet of 7 per cent fat and the other on a high calorie diet of 60 per cent fat.

    After 12 weeks the obese mice were put on a normal diet and although they initially lost weight they went on to increase their food intake to match the high fat diet.

    Further studies will determine if the damage done to the nerves can be reversed.

    "Does it occur after four weeks on a high fat diet? Does it occur after eight weeks?" Associate Professor Page said.

    "And then we want to extend it out to see how long it takes, if at all, for it to be reversed."

    Melanie McGrice from the Dieticians Association of Australia says there is already a lot of research that weight loss is not about fad diets and that it is a complex issue.

    She says the research shows people need long-term behaviour changes and support to lose weight over time.

    The study was funded by the National Health and Medical Research Council and the results published in the International Journal of Obesity.



    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-08-13/ama-says-kitchen-skills-can-help-reduce-obesity/4883418
    The Australian Medical Association (AMA) is urging people to learn to cook to curb the rate of obesity.



    AMA president Steve Hambleton says busy lifestyles and living arrangements are leading many people to eat too much fast food.

    "When you start looking for one-bedroom flats, there's not very much room in the kitchen, whereas our parents probably celebrated with friends coming over in that food preparation area," he said.

    "It is a social change and we've got an ageing population, we've got an increasing burden of chronic disease and if we don't start right at the beginning, we're going to end up with a health system that's unaffordable."



    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-07-11/excercise-doesn27t-stop-obesity-new-report-finds/4813126
    A new report from the United States shows that obesity rates are continuing to rise despite more Americans becoming more physically active.

    Health experts say the key to reversing obesity trends has everything to do with food.

    The study by the University of Washington looked at three million Americans over the past decade and found increasing levels of exercise reduced death, heart disease and diabetes but did not put a dent in obesity rates.

    Professor Bruce Neal, from the George Institute for Global Health at Sydney University, says the problem is the same in Australia.

    "We've seen physical activity go up, but obesity continues to rise. What this basically says is that the cause is diet," he said.

    Professor Neal says even this can be hard to control.

    "The reason people are eating badly is not because they have suddenly become sloths and gluttons, it's because they live in an environment where it is incredibly hard to eat well," he said.

    "Vast amounts of food, fundamentally unhealthy, really large, really energy dense."

    He says food is now responsible for most chronic diseases.

    Some progress is being made in the US, according to Bill Dietz at the US Centre for Disease Control.

    "There has been a reduction in the intake of sugar drinks and also in terms of fast food, pretty modest reductions," he said.

    "But those decreases in caloric intake align quite nicely with changes in the food that is being marketed. Companies are seeing a greater increase in the sales of healthful products, as are restaurants."

    Nutrition and obesity expert Ian Caterson says stopping obesity comes down to diet.

    "Getting fit is important but to change the obesity, we've got to change what we eat," he said.

    "And we have to make changes to the food supply - that's working with the food companies. They are very powerful, but we need to be persuasive to change it."

    Professor Neal says the food industry needs tighter regulation.

    "It's those sorts of things that are going to change the food environment and get on top of the obesity crisis that we have in the country," he said.

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-07-11/excercise-doesn27t-stop-obesity-new-report-finds/4813126
  • mathjulz
    mathjulz Posts: 5,526 Member
    Still, it's how the national media reports the study. Each and every reporter, let alone new outlets, have personal bias that can color how they report. The really good ones try to stay as objective as possible. The ones who care more about ratings skew things how they see fit.

    Without reading the actual study, my questions still remain. And the link about the study on mice raises more. Just one example … they compared 7% fat low calorie to 60% fat high calorie. So is it the fat or the calorie amount?

    And again, how do we use this? It's great to know that you have to be more careful about tracking calories is you have this desensitization (and maybe that's why you posted originally, but, you know … something about that in your commentary may have been helpful there) but what is the overall significance of this study? It's one study. More research needs to happen before we start shouting it from the rooftops, IMO (and that's true for every thing.)
  • Well, the good news is that it isn't an excuse. I'm planning on counting calories to maintain, who cares what my stomach thinks.
    What she said. As long as you're counting calories I don't see how this is relevant.
    If after you lose weight you decide you don't need to track anymore, then yeah you'll regain.
    It's a lifelong effort.