Getting Stronger While Losing Weight?
arabianhorselover
Posts: 1,488 Member
I guess I'm getting a little confused. I always read that you cannot gain muscle while losing weight. I also see people who are losing weight talking about gaining strength. Is that possible? How can a person gain strength without gaining muscle?
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Replies
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Dont quote me on the science but ill try my best to explain it the way I understand it. Gaining Muscle is gaining size, and size is not easily done on a caloric deficit... Yes there is such things as newbie gains, or re-appearance of existing muscle, but actual size gain is very unlikely to occur while on a caloric deficit.. aka losing weight. As far as strength gains, strength is the muscles ability to do work. Which you can train a muscle to be stronger without growing it in size. There is a limit to this i mean you will never see a 125lb person bench pressing 400lbs (unless they are genetically superior) But you can add strength by training your muscles without growing them. Hope this helps.0
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You don't really gain muscle. You get better at using what you have.0
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Gaining Strength =/= Gaining Mass.
Strength gains without gaining mass come from lifting heavier weights and your body becoming more efficient at it. I believe it is called "neuro adaption".0 -
i am consistantly gaining strength at deficit. i have added muscle too - i am not kidding myself, i know this is 'newbie gains'. as soon as i stop making strength gains i will start adding calories gradually.
it might not work for everyone but its working for me. people will say i have not gained muscle - 'you can just see it now that you have stripped back fat' - this is not the case. my thigh and bicep diameter has increased (waist has decreased
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as long as you are getting adequate protein you can definitely gain strength 0 -
Strength is not muscle.
You will see an initial gain of both strength and lean mass (muscle) when you implement strength training into your workout regimen regardless of whether you are at a deficit or a surplus or whatever. But it won't last very long and in order to keep gaining once this period ends you WILL have to increase calories.
But again, gaining muscle is NOT gaining strength. Strength is a function of not only muscle but the NERVOUS SYSTEM, which can be trained to optimize itself without seeing increases in LBM.0 -
You don't have to gain muscle mass to gain strength...I mean, at some point you do, but really, you can go quite a long while just training your body to use what it already has. A large part of actual strength gain is simply neural adaptation.0
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It's possible to gain muscle in a deficit if you have a lot of body fat and like other people said strength =/= muscle.
It actually has to do with the central nervous system becoming used to the activation of the muscles and it becomes more efficient over time.0 -
Interesting. I think I'll have to read it all again.
One other question. About being at a deficit. If the body has fat to use, then is there really a deficit? Apparently the body cannot get everything it needs form stored fat. It would seem that you couldn't create a deficit until there was no more fat for the body to use.0 -
The last time I lost the 50 lbs( that I am currenty once again trying to lose) I did weight training at the gym. By the time I lost the 50 lbs I had great definition in all my torso/upper body muscles and even had a little "four pack" in my abs. No matter how skinny I get (size 4 in the past) I still have fat thighs and calves, both covered in cellulite (front and back). I started the strength training again just this week which is week two of my new attempt to lose that weight again. I don't get bulky muscles, just lean and defined ones. Also, since I am now adding the strengh training I am making sure that I eat protein right afterwards (greek yogart) and am adding an extra 100 calories to eat each day that I strength train.0
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Do you only do cardio on days that you don't strength train?0
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Depends on what you consider cardio, I lift 6 days a week, different muscle groups never working the same muscle groups back to back, and i also do cardio (I walk on the treadmill at an incline) everyday I lift.0
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Can you gain muscle while eating at maintenance?0
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I have lost 208 pounds in the last 19 months. For exercise, I do swimming, waking, and weight training.
For bench press, I started do around a max of 10 reps at 105 pounds and now I can do 10 reps at 135 pounds. I still have a long way to go but I'm making progress. I think you can increase muscle while still losing weight if you go slow. I am also starting to see some muscle definition. I don't max out but based on one online calculator, my 1 rep max bench press has gone from around 140 to 180 in the last year while losing around 100 pounds in the last 12 months.0 -
I've been losing weight since January, and have lost nearly two and a half stone. I've lifted since April. Between April and now, I have upped my Bench Press from 35-40kg to 80kg at 10 reps, upped my Shoulder Press from about 25-30kg to 65kg at 10 reps.
I can now also perform 10-12 pullups (fairly wide grip) I weigh about 70kg, whereas before I couldn't even pull down 40kg on a machine for 10 reps.
Strength gains are definitely possible while cutting, but these are really still newbie gains at the moment... =(0 -
I had my BF measured before I started lifting and i just had my BF measured after 8 months. I have gained 22lbs of lean mass while getting rid of 52 lbs of fat. All while eating at a 500 cal a day deficit.
I strength train and do cardio 3-4 days a week. I also do cardio only 2 days a week.
I did not think it was possbile to gain muscle while at a deficit but I did. And I hope to continue to do so for the next 3-4 months so I can hit my goal.0 -
Interesting. I think I'll have to read it all again.
One other question. About being at a deficit. If the body has fat to use, then is there really a deficit? Apparently the body cannot get everything it needs form stored fat. It would seem that you couldn't create a deficit until there was no more fat for the body to use.
I had the same question when I first started. It is kind of difficult to explain but pretty simple when you understand.
To build new muscle mass the body needs at least two things, energy AND the building materials. You can not build something from nothing, right?
Here is the where the problem in explaining this becomes tricky. Say you provide your body with plenty of building material (protein) but not enough energy? It prioritizes the need for energy before the need to build new mass. This is to keep us alive. Repairing tissue, breathing, hormone function, immune system and so on. Since protein can be used as energy your body will use it until it meets it needs. If you are in a deficit this leaves no building materials. The body will then go to fat stores for any additional calorie needs but the extra energy and building material never occurs at the same time in a deficit.
You ask why doesnt the body go to fat stores for the energy it needs while it has the building materials. It can and does IF you are very new to lifting, returning to training after losing some muscle and/or really overweight. These are special circumstance though and only last for a short time depending on the individual and their history and body fat levels. For the rest of us mortals it does not work that way. When you have eaten food the body produces hormones that prioritize using the ingested food for energy. It will not normally go to fat stores while this is in progress and then only when we are in a deficit.0 -
I had my BF measured before I started lifting and i just had my BF measured after 8 months. I have gained 22lbs of lean mass while getting rid of 52 lbs of fat. All while eating at a 500 cal a day deficit.
I strength train and do cardio 3-4 days a week. I also do cardio only 2 days a week.
I did not think it was possbile to gain muscle while at a deficit but I did. And I hope to continue to do so for the next 3-4 months so I can hit my goal.
22lbs of muscle in 8 months? Training only 3-4 times per day?
Most females have to put in much more work than 3-4 days to gain 1/2 lb per month.
Something doesn't sound quite right.0 -
I'd take those BF machines with a pinch of salt.
Did one about 4-5 months ago and got around 23 percent BF, did one yesterday and it had me at 13.9 percent. Taking into account the fat loss, that would mean a gain of 30lbs of muscle, which is definitely not true
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I'd take those BF machines with a pinch of salt.
Did one about 4-5 months ago and got around 23 percent BF, did one yesterday and it had me at 13.9 percent. Taking into account the fat loss, that would mean a gain of 30lbs of muscle, which is definitely not true
Agreed.
It also only estimates "lean body mass" which is everything that is not fat. Including water. Increase in LBM does not always equal increase in muscle.0 -
This article is a good read in regards to building muscle and such...
http://www.aworkoutroutine.com/how-much-muscle-can-you-gain/0 -
Thank you for the explanation. I think I have to think about it a little more...........I have wondered why a person would even get hunger signals if they have fat for the body to use.Interesting. I think I'll have to read it all again.
One other question. About being at a deficit. If the body has fat to use, then is there really a deficit? Apparently the body cannot get everything it needs form stored fat. It would seem that you couldn't create a deficit until there was no more fat for the body to use.
I had the same question when I first started. It is kind of difficult to explain but pretty simple when you understand.
To build new muscle mass the body needs at least two things, energy AND the building materials. You can not build something from nothing, right?
Here is the where the problem in explaining this becomes tricky. Say you provide your body with plenty of building material (protein) but not enough energy? It prioritizes the need for energy before the need to build new mass. This is to keep us alive. Repairing tissue, breathing, hormone function, immune system and so on. Since protein can be used as energy your body will use it until it meets it needs. If you are in a deficit this leaves no building materials. The body will then go to fat stores for any additional calorie needs but the extra energy and building material never occurs at the same time in a deficit.
You ask why doesnt the body go to fat stores for the energy it needs while it has the building materials. It can and does IF you are very new to lifting, returning to training after losing some muscle and/or really overweight. These are special circumstance though and only last for a short time depending on the individual and their history and body fat levels. For the rest of us mortals it does not work that way. When you have eaten food the body produces hormones that prioritize using the ingested food for energy. It will not normally go to fat stores while this is in progress and then only when we are in a deficit.0 -
22lbs of muscle in 8 months? Training only 3-4 times per day?
Most females have to put in much more work than 3-4 days to gain 1/2 lb per month.
Something doesn't sound quite right.I'd take those BF machines with a pinch of salt.
Did one about 4-5 months ago and got around 23 percent BF, did one yesterday and it had me at 13.9 percent. Taking into account the fat loss, that would mean a gain of 30lbs of muscle, which is definitely not true
I thought the hydrostatic body fat tests were the gold standard in body fat measurements. I'll leave the grain of salt in the shaker and trust the test results...
Even if the test was off, there was muscle growth to some level. I did not grow bones, organs or put on that much water weight in 8 months time. I dont have a large tumor growing somewhere in my body so the only growth internally to that degree has to be muscle. Therefore, it is possible to gain muscle while eatting at a calorie deficit.0 -
I guess I'm getting a little confused. I always read that you cannot gain muscle while losing weight. I also see people who are losing weight talking about gaining strength. Is that possible? How can a person gain strength without gaining muscle?
Neurological adaptation? Strength gains? I'm not nearly so confident as some people on here I know the all the mechanics of a system so complex as the human body. But I can share my results over the last year. I started out last Halloween at a sedentary 300 lbs. and set a goal of exercising every day. Since then I've been running daily deficits and working out most days. I have lost a little over 80 pounds with about 12 more to go (I think). I've also increased my deadlift by about 100 lbs (now 450 lbs) and my bench press by 60 lbs. (now 280 lbs). I had no benchmark for my squat, so without a before measurement I can only say it is now up to 405 lbs. I am still running calorie deficits and am at the point where I'm finding progress on those three lifts is going much more slowly. I'm about 4-6 weeks before I will start eating caloric surpluses, so I'll have to wait and see how that affects things.0 -
22lbs of muscle in 8 months? Training only 3-4 times per day?
Most females have to put in much more work than 3-4 days to gain 1/2 lb per month.
Something doesn't sound quite right.I'd take those BF machines with a pinch of salt.
Did one about 4-5 months ago and got around 23 percent BF, did one yesterday and it had me at 13.9 percent. Taking into account the fat loss, that would mean a gain of 30lbs of muscle, which is definitely not true
I thought the hydrostatic body fat tests were the gold standard in body fat measurements. I'll leave the grain of salt in the shaker and trust the test results...
Even if the test was off, there was muscle growth to some level. I did not grow bones, organs or put on that much water weight in 8 months time. I dont have a large tumor growing somewhere in my body so the only growth internally to that degree has to be muscle. Therefore, it is possible to gain muscle while eatting at a calorie deficit.
22lbs of muscle in 8 months would be an amazing amount even for a young male "enhanced" body builder on a huge calorie surplus. Not trying to discourage you, just provide some perspective to the data you were given.0 -
22lbs of muscle in 8 months? Training only 3-4 times per day?
Most females have to put in much more work than 3-4 days to gain 1/2 lb per month.
Something doesn't sound quite right.I'd take those BF machines with a pinch of salt.
Did one about 4-5 months ago and got around 23 percent BF, did one yesterday and it had me at 13.9 percent. Taking into account the fat loss, that would mean a gain of 30lbs of muscle, which is definitely not true
I thought the hydrostatic body fat tests were the gold standard in body fat measurements. I'll leave the grain of salt in the shaker and trust the test results...
Even if the test was off, there was muscle growth to some level. I did not grow bones, organs or put on that much water weight in 8 months time. I dont have a large tumor growing somewhere in my body so the only growth internally to that degree has to be muscle. Therefore, it is possible to gain muscle while eatting at a calorie deficit.
22lbs of muscle in 8 months would be an amazing amount even for a young male "enhanced" body builder on a huge calorie surplus. Not trying to discourage you, just provide some perspective to the data you were given.
I will say they cant. I am going to be discouraging cause 22 lbs wont happen. People dont understand how much even 5 lbs of muscle looks like. 5 lbs of muscle is a ****load0 -
22lbs of muscle in 8 months? Training only 3-4 times per day?
Most females have to put in much more work than 3-4 days to gain 1/2 lb per month.
Something doesn't sound quite right.I'd take those BF machines with a pinch of salt.
Did one about 4-5 months ago and got around 23 percent BF, did one yesterday and it had me at 13.9 percent. Taking into account the fat loss, that would mean a gain of 30lbs of muscle, which is definitely not true
I thought the hydrostatic body fat tests were the gold standard in body fat measurements. I'll leave the grain of salt in the shaker and trust the test results...
Even if the test was off, there was muscle growth to some level. I did not grow bones, organs or put on that much water weight in 8 months time. I dont have a large tumor growing somewhere in my body so the only growth internally to that degree has to be muscle. Therefore, it is possible to gain muscle while eatting at a calorie deficit.
22lbs of muscle in 8 months would be an amazing amount even for a young male "enhanced" body builder on a huge calorie surplus. Not trying to discourage you, just provide some perspective to the data you were given.
I will say they cant. I am going to be discouraging cause 22 lbs wont happen. People dont understand how much even 5 lbs of muscle looks like. 5 lbs of muscle is a ****load
:drinker: I just didnt have the heart. :happy:0 -
Gaining Strength =/= Gaining Mass.
Strength gains without gaining mass come from lifting heavier weights and your body becoming more efficient at it. I believe it is called "neuro adaption".
This^^ 100% correct and it answers OP question perfectly on how you gain strength while not gaining muscle.
Nuro adaptations are aka motor units and motor neurons. The more you can fire off at a time the more strength you can get out of your muscles to an extent. There is a limit to the % you can fire off at one time therefor if you have a smaller muscle it will be limited on the amount of strength it can produce so the bigger the muscle the stronger the muscle.0 -
Interesting. I think I'll have to read it all again.
One other question. About being at a deficit. If the body has fat to use, then is there really a deficit? Apparently the body cannot get everything it needs form stored fat. It would seem that you couldn't create a deficit until there was no more fat for the body to use.
Yes...if you are using fat for energy then you are at an energy deficit. A calorie deficit simply refers to the energy that you consume..i.e. calories consumed. Your body requires a certain number of calories to maintain weight...when you consume less calories than your body needs (i.e. a deficit) then you burn stored fat for energy.
Think of it this way...if you earn $3,000 per month in income but your bills are $3,500 per month, you have a deficit of $500 per month...to cover this deficit you dip into your savings account (fat). Eventually, your savings (fat) will dry up and you will have to bring income and expenditure into balance again. Failure to do so would obviously result in unsustainable debt...when people continue to diet when they have no fat stores to cover calorie deficits, all sorts of nastiness happens...muscle is eaten away (thinking having to sell off the house to cover the debt), etc...ultimately, unsustainable debt, whether we're talking and energy debt for your body or a fiscal debt leads to very bad things.0 -
Good Explanation. Thank you.Interesting. I think I'll have to read it all again.
One other question. About being at a deficit. If the body has fat to use, then is there really a deficit? Apparently the body cannot get everything it needs form stored fat. It would seem that you couldn't create a deficit until there was no more fat for the body to use.
Yes...if you are using fat for energy then you are at an energy deficit. A calorie deficit simply refers to the energy that you consume..i.e. calories consumed. Your body requires a certain number of calories to maintain weight...when you consume less calories than your body needs (i.e. a deficit) then you burn stored fat for energy.
Think of it this way...if you earn $3,000 per month in income but your bills are $3,500 per month, you have a deficit of $500 per month...to cover this deficit you dip into your savings account (fat). Eventually, your savings (fat) will dry up and you will have to bring income and expenditure into balance again. Failure to do so would obviously result in unsustainable debt...when people continue to diet when they have no fat stores to cover calorie deficits, all sorts of nastiness happens...muscle is eaten away (thinking having to sell off the house to cover the debt), etc...ultimately, unsustainable debt, whether we're talking and energy debt for your body or a fiscal debt leads to very bad things.0
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