Am i doing it right? (Lean Bulk hopeful)

nboks
nboks Posts: 41
in Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
Some info:

- Increased my TDEE/Calorie limit to maintenance levels (1830 cals)
- Doing P90X with only a 15 lbs pair dumbells and pull up bar (planning to get 40 lbs pair this week for progressive weight load)
- Cardio only on P90X cardio days (Plio and Les Mills combat replacement for Kenpo X, etc)

I'm planning to net over 250 cals only on Lifting days while doing P90X. Would that be a good way to get starting gains so I can get stronger?

Currently my goal is to get stronger on my arms before I go to the gym to do a compound lift program. Is this the right approach?

Replies

  • waldo56
    waldo56 Posts: 1,861 Member
    If you are trying to bulk, you are in general better off maintaining a consistent surplus; growth happens during recovery, recovery happens on non-liftining days.

    A lot of people are better off just going ahead and bulking and forgetting about "lean" bulking. Try to do it at a moderate rate and stick with it for a while avoiding overadjusting.

    First timers really have no idea of what their calorie needs are to gain. They have no idea of how the body reacts to the surplus.

    Trying to lean bulk your first bulk is about like deciding to try to "lose weight" by jumping right into an advanced macrocycling diet like UD2.0. Its a better idea to get that "losing weight" thing down first.

    Unless you go crazy and eat at stupid levels, cutting the fat off after bulking is easy peasy. The first 3-4 weeks after bulking cutting is a breeze and the fat just drops right off.
  • nboks
    nboks Posts: 41
    If you are trying to bulk, you are in general better off maintaining a consistent surplus; growth happens during recovery, recovery happens on non-liftining days.

    A lot of people are better off just going ahead and bulking and forgetting about "lean" bulking. Try to do it at a moderate rate and stick with it for a while avoiding overadjusting.

    First timers really have no idea of what their calorie needs are to gain. They have no idea of how the body reacts to the surplus.

    Trying to lean bulk your first bulk is about like deciding to try to "lose weight" by jumping right into an advanced macrocycling diet like UD2.0. Its a better idea to get that "losing weight" thing down first.

    Unless you go crazy and eat at stupid levels, cutting the fat off after bulking is easy peasy. The first 3-4 weeks after bulking cutting is a breeze and the fat just drops right off.

    Thanks for the input!. Its true that I think I should be able to lose weight easily because of my weight loss progress in just a few months time.

    Now that I significantly changed my goal from losing weight to gaining muscle mass, I am mostly just concerned about losing whatever progress I made. I do like fitting on my new pant size :/
  • djeffreys10
    djeffreys10 Posts: 2,312 Member
    Why do you want to get stronger before starting a compound program? Just start the program already. No need to waste time building up to it. Start where you are and the gains will come.
  • nboks
    nboks Posts: 41
    Why do you want to get stronger before starting a compound program? Just start the program already. No need to waste time building up to it. Start where you are and the gains will come.

    hmm that's true, i am really used to doing home work outs but I will pass by one of my local gyms soon and try out one of the compound sets (planning to do All pro) and see if its something that I can do constantly.
  • Live4theLift
    Live4theLift Posts: 329
    Eat Eat Eat Eat Eat..... you have to eat surplus everyday and you have to account for your calories burned and eat over that
  • mustgetmuscles1
    mustgetmuscles1 Posts: 3,346 Member
    Muscle growth is a very slow process even with optimal conditions. On a good program, protein synthesis remains elevated for around 48 hours after the workout. Only having a surplus on your workout days will likely result in no noticeable muscle gain even after many months. You would most likely just be spinning your wheels.

    Here is a great article on the subject of lean bulking.
    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/general-philosophies-of-muscle-mass-gain.html

    As for what program you are using there is really no reason or benefit to waiting to start a weightlifting program. Your strength gains will progress very fast once you start lifting.
  • Tedebearduff
    Tedebearduff Posts: 1,155 Member
    Why do you want to get stronger before starting a compound program? Just start the program already. No need to waste time building up to it. Start where you are and the gains will come.

    hmm that's true, i am really used to doing home work outs but I will pass by one of my local gyms soon and try out one of the compound sets (planning to do All pro) and see if its something that I can do constantly.

    Kind of agree with the other guy

    To me you need to build your base, which means allot of large compound movements.(bench, squats and deadlifts) I'd say your going to lose your beginner gains but if your not really lifting anything I guess you can't lose anything right? Stop building up to get to the gym and just go to the gym sounds like a bunch of excuses!!!

    Check youtube for workout routines there are tons on there!! I know it can be a little intimidating but no one really cares ..
  • djeffreys10
    djeffreys10 Posts: 2,312 Member
    Why do you want to get stronger before starting a compound program? Just start the program already. No need to waste time building up to it. Start where you are and the gains will come.

    hmm that's true, i am really used to doing home work outs but I will pass by one of my local gyms soon and try out one of the compound sets (planning to do All pro) and see if its something that I can do constantly.

    I recently found my log from my first chest day last September (I started 1 year ago). I had to use 90 lbs on the bench for my working sets. Right now, I am using 170 for my working sets. There are kids I see frequently that are sticks and still never go above 90 on the bench. Nobody makes fun of them. I will shoot the chit with them between sets, and I have corrected their form once or twice.

    Just be consistent. People in the gym will respect that, no matter what weights you are pushing.
  • keithemp
    keithemp Posts: 71
    I recently found my log from my first chest day last September (I started 1 year ago). I had to use 90 lbs on the bench for my working sets. Right now, I am using 170 for my working sets. There are kids I see frequently that are sticks and still never go above 90 on the bench. Nobody makes fun of them. I will shoot the chit with them between sets, and I have corrected their form once or twice.

    Just be consistent. People in the gym will respect that, no matter what weights you are pushing.

    I agree.

    Different people have different goals, so no one is going to judge you at the gym. If they do, forget about them, they're the ones with issues. Some people lift light to try to maintain a certain level of fitness by lifting light (ex - some athletes need to stay lean), some people lift heavy for strength, it all depends on what you are trying to do.
  • nboks
    nboks Posts: 41
    I recently found my log from my first chest day last September (I started 1 year ago). I had to use 90 lbs on the bench for my working sets. Right now, I am using 170 for my working sets. There are kids I see frequently that are sticks and still never go above 90 on the bench. Nobody makes fun of them. I will shoot the chit with them between sets, and I have corrected their form once or twice.

    Just be consistent. People in the gym will respect that, no matter what weights you are pushing.

    I agree.

    Different people have different goals, so no one is going to judge you at the gym. If they do, forget about them, they're the ones with issues. Some people lift light to try to maintain a certain level of fitness by lifting light (ex - some athletes need to stay lean), some people lift heavy for strength, it all depends on what you are trying to do.

    My main goal right now has always been to get stronger so that I will be able to Bench,Squat,DL higher weights. Right now with the equipment i have (15 lbs dumbell pair), I struggle with some lifts (shoulder flys, etc) and some are already too easy.

    Mostly, I needed to know the next step I can take for progressive overload (more dumbell weights and continue P90X or already start doing a lifting program at the gym)
  • keithemp
    keithemp Posts: 71
    My main goal right now has always been to get stronger so that I will be able to Bench,Squat,DL higher weights. Right now with the equipment i have (15 lbs dumbell pair), I struggle with some lifts (shoulder flys, etc) and some are already too easy.

    Mostly, I needed to know the next step I can take for progressive overload (more dumbell weights and continue P90X or already start doing a lifting program at the gym)

    Since you seem to already be working out at home, you know some of the movements already. What you're lacking is sufficient resistance (aka - higher weights) to actually trigger strength gains.

    I suggest that you just hit the gym already. Develop a routine that you will follow, and write everything down. I bring my workout sheet and a pen to the gym to track my sets, reps and weight. This way I can increase as needed without trying to remember what I lifted last time.
  • Live4theLift
    Live4theLift Posts: 329
    ^^^^^^^^^^^ totally agree!!

    Bring you a notpad and write down what you did, how many reps and with what weight and keep track of your progress. Its an eye opener when you get a month or so in and you go back and look at your first few sets and the weight you were with. Also keep in mind that if you want to get stronger you need to work as close to your 1RM (1 rep max) as possible. So if your 1RM on bench is 100 try working at 75-85 or even 90 if you can for multiple reps. Good luck
  • cmeiron
    cmeiron Posts: 1,599 Member
    Muscle growth is a very slow process even with optimal conditions. On a good program, protein synthesis remains elevated for around 48 hours after the workout. Only having a surplus on your workout days will likely result in no noticeable muscle gain even after many months. You would most likely just be spinning your wheels.

    Here is a great article on the subject of lean bulking.
    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/general-philosophies-of-muscle-mass-gain.html

    As for what program you are using there is really no reason or benefit to waiting to start a weightlifting program. Your strength gains will progress very fast once you start lifting.

    Great article, thanks for sharing.
  • nboks
    nboks Posts: 41
    Thanks for the replies everyone.

    I'm going to start taking note of my 10 rep max per exercise in AllPro's routine by tomorrow. I'm just really conflicted since I only finished week 2 of P90X and it did give me some bit of results but im just not any stronger (deficit diet + low resistance probably)
  • cmeiron
    cmeiron Posts: 1,599 Member
    FWIW, I've been doing All Pro since the end of February, and I experienced great strength gains even while on a deficit. That said, I'm eating at/slightly above maintenance now, and the difference is fantastic - I'm all in powerhouse beastmode now lol.
  • Snow3y
    Snow3y Posts: 1,412 Member
    Tell you what, head on over to www.iifym.com

    calculate your TDEE, go above it by 200-300 calories.

    You WILL need to do a mini-cut at some points in time, almost everyone needs to do this.. You WILL gain fat when on a bulk, but on a small bulk of just 200 over it will take long before you do :)

    Program-wise, I'd recommend any strength program, this is so you can build up a nice foundation for yourself :)

    Any more questions?
  • nboks
    nboks Posts: 41
    Tell you what, head on over to www.iifym.com

    calculate your TDEE, go above it by 200-300 calories.

    You WILL need to do a mini-cut at some points in time, almost everyone needs to do this.. You WILL gain fat when on a bulk, but on a small bulk of just 200 over it will take long before you do :)

    Program-wise, I'd recommend any strength program, this is so you can build up a nice foundation for yourself :)

    Any more questions?

    thanks, my macros are setup to just a little under 100 calories over my TDEE but I ALWAYS eat my exercise calories (which are always accurate because of my HRM) plus I'm usually a bit over by 100 or 200 on my Total calorie limit. So i guess this is me skirting the line between maintenance and being on a bulk depending on how much excess I had for that particular day.

    I will be decreasing/increasing my calories depending on my weekly weigh-in (mondays).
  • cmeiron
    cmeiron Posts: 1,599 Member
    Tell you what, head on over to www.iifym.com

    calculate your TDEE, go above it by 200-300 calories.

    You WILL need to do a mini-cut at some points in time, almost everyone needs to do this.. You WILL gain fat when on a bulk, but on a small bulk of just 200 over it will take long before you do :)

    Program-wise, I'd recommend any strength program, this is so you can build up a nice foundation for yourself :)

    Any more questions?

    Good advice here, but know that any TDEE estimator will only give you just that - an estimate. Most estimators put my TDEE at about 2000/day, but I've found that my actual maintenance intake is closer to 2500. Pick a number (perhaps based on what the estimator tells you), and stick with it for 3-4 weeks while making daily notes of your weight, then increase or decrease your intake according to how well the weight changes are matching your goals. It might be hard to judge what your intake needs to be with only a week's worth of data. I found that eat time I gradually increased my intake, my weight would increase a few lbs for a week or so, then would drop back down over the next week or two. Had I brought my intake back down too quickly in response to an increase I would have kept myself below maintenance for much longer. The body needs a little time to adjust to the increased food volume, water retention and glycogen stores.
  • pandorakick
    pandorakick Posts: 901 Member
    I'm also doing All Pro's (currently in my 6th cycle) and working towards a bulk in a few weeks. On my MFP blog you can find my plan on how to do this, the sources on which it is based are also included. Perhaps you can find something useful in there for your situation and goals?
  • nboks
    nboks Posts: 41
    ok.... after one week of eating over my calorie limit, my official monday weigh shows that i didnt gain any weight at all. i guess i shouldn't feel too conscious about eating too much.

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