The plight of the plateau
Elafacwen
Posts: 44 Member
Background time!
23 year old female, 5'8" currently 195 lbs, down 71 since last October through calorie restriction alone (myfitnesspal.com) In April I found out I was severely hypothyroid and was placed on 50mcg of Levothyroxine. I had lost 50 pounds prior to starting the medication, but I have only lost 20lbs since starting the meds.
My slowed weight loss has reached a plateau for the past month. Around the same time I quit losing, I started Taedwondo, through which I am getting around five hours of medium to high intensity cardio per week.
Now here's a new problem. My hunger has been off the charts this past week. It is not the same kind of 'emotional hunger' I used to have, but more of a 'I genuinely need senescence' type of hunger. Today was my cheat day, and I probably ate 4000 calories worth of food through out the day and never really felt full for too long. This really isn't helping my mind set about my plateau...
I typically eat a great deal of vegetables and I get anywhere from 50-90 grams of protein each day. If you want to view my food diary, it is available here. Be warned, the last few days don't' look all that great. http://www.myfitnesspal.com/food/diary/Elafacwen
Another tidbit about my diet. I am ultra-low calorie, meaning some days I only eat 800 calories per day. I have seen multiple doctors in the past year due to endocrine related things, and none were concerned and said I was perfectly healthy (other than the funky hormone stuff)
SO HERE'S MY QUESTION: How do I get over this plateau?
23 year old female, 5'8" currently 195 lbs, down 71 since last October through calorie restriction alone (myfitnesspal.com) In April I found out I was severely hypothyroid and was placed on 50mcg of Levothyroxine. I had lost 50 pounds prior to starting the medication, but I have only lost 20lbs since starting the meds.
My slowed weight loss has reached a plateau for the past month. Around the same time I quit losing, I started Taedwondo, through which I am getting around five hours of medium to high intensity cardio per week.
Now here's a new problem. My hunger has been off the charts this past week. It is not the same kind of 'emotional hunger' I used to have, but more of a 'I genuinely need senescence' type of hunger. Today was my cheat day, and I probably ate 4000 calories worth of food through out the day and never really felt full for too long. This really isn't helping my mind set about my plateau...
I typically eat a great deal of vegetables and I get anywhere from 50-90 grams of protein each day. If you want to view my food diary, it is available here. Be warned, the last few days don't' look all that great. http://www.myfitnesspal.com/food/diary/Elafacwen
Another tidbit about my diet. I am ultra-low calorie, meaning some days I only eat 800 calories per day. I have seen multiple doctors in the past year due to endocrine related things, and none were concerned and said I was perfectly healthy (other than the funky hormone stuff)
SO HERE'S MY QUESTION: How do I get over this plateau?
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Replies
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when I wasnt eating enough calories I stopped losing weight too...eat more calories to lose..change up your exercise0
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i eat super low cal too, not on purpose, it's just how i go. I beat my two year plateau at 75 pounds lost by switching to heavy lifting and taking a break from my crazy cardio schedules.0
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I'm not aware of any scenario where simply adding in more fuel will cause your body to burn more fuel. Adding more calories to your eating plan will reduce (or possibly eliminate) your deficit. Without a deficit, you will not lose weight. eating more is fine if you also exercise more to burn off the additional calories you're taking in. Take in more than you are burning will cause you to gain weight.
Most likely you just need to change up your exercise routine. Your muscles adapt to exercises that you do regularly and become much better at performing them, requiring much less fuel to do the same work. Lowered fuel requirements means lowered deficit. Heavy lifting with a progressively heavier workload is a great way to ensure that you keep your muscles at a challenged state, always burning the calories you need to burn.
It also may help to reduce the binge on your cheat day, or eliminate the cheat day altogether. Whatever is more comfortable for you. 4000 calories in one day versus 800 every other day pretty much explains the plateau. If you average that out, it becomes over 1250kcal per day. Probably higher than that, since you said you only eat that low on some days and your 4k estimate could well have been low. Whatever you lost on the deficit days you could have easily gained back on the extreme surplus (cheat) day. For many people a cheat day is a very useful tool, but it does have its consequences. They are bigger if you go that far overboard.
Most importantly, your new hormonal balance is going to take some getting used to. I'm sure you're aware of that already, but it's worth mentioning. Your caloric needs on the meds are almost certainly different from what your needs were before starting them. Your body is now processing food differently. Your brain is now processing signals from your organs differently. This should normalize a bit as you get used to the effects. My wife goes through this little bit of insanity every time she neglects to renew her Synthroid prescription and is off for a few days
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+what I was referring to is that by eating only 800 calories a day..which is clearly not enough your body might be holding on ..its in starvation mode so even by increasing to 1200 calories a day may help...of course you need a defecit to lose but when I was exercising and burning 600 calories a day...and led an active work day and eating 1200 calories I cwouldnt lose weight..after talking to a trainer he suggested I wasnt eating enough and by simply adding 200 calories a day on workout days I was able to lose0
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+what I was referring to is that by eating only 800 calories a day..which is clearly not enough your body might be holding on ..its in starvation mode so even by increasing to 1200 calories a day may help...of course you need a defecit to lose but when I was exercising and burning 600 calories a day...and led an active work day and eating 1200 calories I cwouldnt lose weight..after talking to a trainer he suggested I wasnt eating enough and by simply adding 200 calories a day on workout days I was able to lose
Lets use the correct terms, starvation mode doesn't exist... except as a myth. Adaptive thermogenesis/starvation response DOES exist, but it doesn't work like this, especially not in the short term. The real dangers of AT are long term, not short term. Mental changes and on-going metabolic changes.
Eating more to lose more is a myth period. For a summary you can read http://www.aworkoutroutine.com/starvation-mode/
Seriously, read the WHOLE page. Don't skip a line.0 -
QFT. Better reply than what I was going to write at this early of an hour.+what I was referring to is that by eating only 800 calories a day..which is clearly not enough your body might be holding on ..its in starvation mode so even by increasing to 1200 calories a day may help...of course you need a defecit to lose but when I was exercising and burning 600 calories a day...and led an active work day and eating 1200 calories I cwouldnt lose weight..after talking to a trainer he suggested I wasnt eating enough and by simply adding 200 calories a day on workout days I was able to lose
Lets use the correct terms, starvation mode doesn't exist... except as a myth. Adaptive thermogenesis/starvation response DOES exist, but it doesn't work like this, especially not in the short term. The real dangers of AT are long term, not short term. Mental changes and on-going metabolic changes.
Eating more to lose more is a myth period. For a summary you can read http://www.aworkoutroutine.com/starvation-mode/
Seriously, read the WHOLE page. Don't skip a line.0 -
+what I was referring to is that by eating only 800 calories a day..which is clearly not enough your body might be holding on ..its in starvation mode so even by increasing to 1200 calories a day may help...of course you need a defecit to lose but when I was exercising and burning 600 calories a day...and led an active work day and eating 1200 calories I cwouldnt lose weight..after talking to a trainer he suggested I wasnt eating enough and by simply adding 200 calories a day on workout days I was able to lose
Lets use the correct terms, starvation mode doesn't exist... except as a myth. Adaptive thermogenesis/starvation response DOES exist, but it doesn't work like this, especially not in the short term. The real dangers of AT are long term, not short term. Mental changes and on-going metabolic changes.
Eating more to lose more is a myth period. For a summary you can read http://www.aworkoutroutine.com/starvation-mode/
Seriously, read the WHOLE page. Don't skip a line.
Great article. Thank you!0 -
Eating more to lose more is a myth period.
please do not state general sweeping rules for the entire populace. Especially with women, many of us have been under-eating for many years and not realizing it, getting most of our daily calories from coffee and such.
It wasnt until I brought my calories up from 800-1000/day to 1500+ that I was able to break through a really long plateau and have the energy and ability to lose weight.
Im not referring to starvation mode, Im simply referring to the fact that I stopped eating under 1000 calories a day and then zoomed past my goal weight, had more energy and alertness and became stronger and leaner.
It is not a myth period.
For some people, it has changed their lives and it is very kind to go into conversation on these forums knowing that there are things that we may not believe in, that may work despite what we believe.
Also, losing weight is not a consistently exact science. For men, it almost can be from time to time, but their hormone cycles are nowhere near the intensity as ours, nor does it affect your eating habits or nutritional needs. For us, it does. That automatically makes it different for us.
If someone out there is eating too little and dying to lose weight, it just isnt kind to tell them that eating more to lose weight is a fairytale.
Let them experiment for themselves, because learning how to research, teach themselves and get to know their own bodies and what works for THEM is the reason we want them here, so they can succeed.
No ridiculous sweeping generalizations for women who eat too little, from a guy who doesnt have a body that has to prepare for possible baby incubation each month, pretty please
It isn't a myth - for some of us - it's a life saver - or at least, a sanity saver.
:flowerforyou:0 -
In other words - too big of a deficit will stop your progress. Keep your deficit in the healthy range. Eating 800 calories a day and burning 800 calories a day will get you a 4000 calorie deficit and eventually land your little plateau'd booty in the hospital.0
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Taekwondo burns about 600 calories an hour. You definitely need to eat more.0
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please do not state general sweeping rules for the entire populace. Especially with women, many of us have been under-eating for many years and not realizing it, getting most of our daily calories from coffee and such.
<SNIP>
Even if you are a 4'0" woman who is 90lbs you have a ~~~BMR~~~ over 800 even *WITH* the highest levels of AT ever recorded. If you were conscious and breathing at 800 calories a day, if accurately counted, you would lose weight. Period.
This is the most common myth on MFP and has been disproved by science over, and over, and over... "starvation mode" as you describe it only happens EVER in non-controlled eating settings. Why do you think that is? Because it's user error, not starvation mode. You are not a special snowflake. Get over it.
Seriously, go read the article I posted, go read the Minnesota starvation experiment, go read up on adaptive thermogenesis in humans. It's not rocket science and the science applies across the board when you correct for human mistakes.
NSFL (Not safe for life) http://www.2medusa.com/2009/07/starvation.html (Contains pictures of concentration camp victims and survivors of anorexia.) This is what actually 0-800 calorie a day starvation looks like over extended periods of time when we're not lying to ourselves about our intake and eating back expenditure.0 -
In other words - too big of a deficit will stop your progress.
No, it will not. It may cause other problems, but it will not stop weight loss.
If someone had the fortitude to stick to a 300 calorie/day diet, they would lose *huge* amounts of body fat in a very short period of time. For a large male, we're talking 1-2 pounds per day.
Again, whether that's "healthy" or not can be debated. But the idea that eating nothing will lead to stalls in weight loss is simply not correct.0 -
As you lose weight, small errors that didn't matter start to manifest themselves.
TKD probably burns about 250-300 calories for the session. There's a lot of stop and go which is why it's so little.
Take a hard look at how you're counting food. Even on cheat days log what you eat so you don't say "probably ate" anymore.
Finally, I agree with joshdan that you really need to constantly increase workout intensity as you go. It's easy to settle in and while that's better than sitting on the couch it's less effective than it was a month ago.0 -
In other words - too big of a deficit will stop your progress.
No, it will not. It may cause other problems, but it will not stop weight loss.
If someone had the fortitude to stick to a 300 calorie/day diet, they would lose *huge* amounts of body fat in a very short period of time. For a large male, we're talking 1-2 pounds per day.
Again, whether that's "healthy" or not can be debated. But the idea that eating nothing will lead to stalls in weight loss is simply not correct.
We're both wrong because we both used absolutes. I should have said that it CAN because it HAS. I'm yelling you what happened with me. For my source, please call Dr Nathan Landry at Hamilton medical group in Lafayette LA.0 -
Telling*0
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You said it yourself -- there are things we consume that add a huge amount of calories to our diet without knowing it. A "regular" coffee from Dunkin Donuts has over 200 because it's loaded with cream and sugar. A "skinny" tall chai tea from starbucks has over 200. The handful of peanuts you grabbed or the brownie (or three) your coworker brought in can be 1/2 of your daily allowance of maintenance food intake. These are the things we don't pay attention to when not keeping a food diary.Eating more to lose more is a myth period.
please do not state general sweeping rules for the entire populace. Especially with women, many of us have been under-eating for many years and not realizing it, getting most of our daily calories from coffee and such.
It wasnt until I brought my calories up from 800-1000/day to 1500+ that I was able to break through a really long plateau and have the energy and ability to lose weight.
Im not referring to starvation mode, Im simply referring to the fact that I stopped eating under 1000 calories a day and then zoomed past my goal weight, had more energy and alertness and became stronger and leaner.
It is not a myth period.
For some people, it has changed their lives and it is very kind to go into conversation on these forums knowing that there are things that we may not believe in, that may work despite what we believe.
Also, losing weight is not a consistently exact science. For men, it almost can be from time to time, but their hormone cycles are nowhere near the intensity as ours, nor does it affect your eating habits or nutritional needs. For us, it does. That automatically makes it different for us.
If someone out there is eating too little and dying to lose weight, it just isnt kind to tell them that eating more to lose weight is a fairytale.
Let them experiment for themselves, because learning how to research, teach themselves and get to know their own bodies and what works for THEM is the reason we want them here, so they can succeed.
No ridiculous sweeping generalizations for women who eat too little, from a guy who doesnt have a body that has to prepare for possible baby incubation each month, pretty please
It isn't a myth - for some of us - it's a life saver - or at least, a sanity saver.
:flowerforyou:
Your doctor probably told you what you wanted to hear to keep you as a patient while tactfully steering you in the right direction. No one wants to be told "just stop eating so much" when they don't realize they drink over a meal's worth of sugar throughout the day, and I'm guessing that you didn't bring in a 100% (or even 95%) accurate food diary from the last 3 months when you told him about how you are gaining weight without eating.
There is not a single documented case in a controlled experiment where a subject ate few calories and never lost weight.0 -
I am totally loving Shadus!!....the best part...he's right, it really is all about changing up the workout....its really hard not to over think it, but it really is simple math....and your body really does adapt to the things your doing to it....change is crucial.....
little sad though.....I really did think I was a "special snowflake" :laugh:0 -
You said it yourself -- there are things we consume that add a huge amount of calories to our diet without knowing it. A "regular" coffee from Dunkin Donuts has over 200 because it's loaded with cream and sugar. A "skinny" tall chai tea from starbucks has over 200. The handful of peanuts you grabbed or the brownie (or three) your coworker brought in can be 1/2 of your daily allowance of maintenance food intake. These are the things we don't pay attention to when not keeping a food diary.Eating more to lose more is a myth period.
please do not state general sweeping rules for the entire populace. Especially with women, many of us have been under-eating for many years and not realizing it, getting most of our daily calories from coffee and such.
It wasnt until I brought my calories up from 800-1000/day to 1500+ that I was able to break through a really long plateau and have the energy and ability to lose weight.
Im not referring to starvation mode, Im simply referring to the fact that I stopped eating under 1000 calories a day and then zoomed past my goal weight, had more energy and alertness and became stronger and leaner.
It is not a myth period.
For some people, it has changed their lives and it is very kind to go into conversation on these forums knowing that there are things that we may not believe in, that may work despite what we believe.
Also, losing weight is not a consistently exact science. For men, it almost can be from time to time, but their hormone cycles are nowhere near the intensity as ours, nor does it affect your eating habits or nutritional needs. For us, it does. That automatically makes it different for us.
If someone out there is eating too little and dying to lose weight, it just isnt kind to tell them that eating more to lose weight is a fairytale.
Let them experiment for themselves, because learning how to research, teach themselves and get to know their own bodies and what works for THEM is the reason we want them here, so they can succeed.
No ridiculous sweeping generalizations for women who eat too little, from a guy who doesnt have a body that has to prepare for possible baby incubation each month, pretty please
It isn't a myth - for some of us - it's a life saver - or at least, a sanity saver.
:flowerforyou:
Your doctor probably told you what you wanted to hear to keep you as a patient while tactfully steering you in the right direction. No one wants to be told "just stop eating so much" when they don't realize they drink over a meal's worth of sugar throughout the day, and I'm guessing that you didn't bring in a 100% (or even 95%) accurate food diary from the last 3 months when you told him about how you are gaining weight without eating.
There is not a single documented case in a controlled experiment where a subject ate few calories and never lost weight.
No. I didn't intend for you to take as that person won't lose weight. I ate too little while in physical therapy and in a deep depression so my weight loss just stopped. I lost a ridiculous amount of weight first, then put it back on and it stalled completely.
I never had food issues or a history of overeating. I was always the busy girl who just had no time to stop and eat and all that nonsense, making a mess in the kitchen, etc. So when I dropped to a really low number for too long, I stopped losing. I don't think I was in starvation mode or that my body was clinging to fat so i wouldn't die. I just couldn't lose any more til I got consistently back up over 1200. And I spent a couple years eating far too little when I was in too much pain to do anything and lived somewhere where I didn't know anyone. I just slept all the time and waited to die.
Eating too little, yes I believe you will lose weight. At a plateau? Try upping your calories to see if it helps, especially if you are burning high numbers.
I'm simply offering a suggestion to someone who asked for help from the general public. I've lost a hundred pounds the healthy way and thought I might be able to help.
But you're right, I should definitely listen to people on the internet instead of doctors, who only tell you what you want to hear anyway.0 -
Im sorry I disagree..Just because you showed me one article doesnt make it true..I was simply giving my opinion of years of trying to lose weight what finally worked for me..I dont think eating 800 calories a day and exercise is effective or healthy and I was simply saying up your calories to a minimum level of 1200 not 2000..I dont understand why someone would try to prove me wrong on this...its an opinion of what has worked for me...we are all obviously trying to figure out what works best for us..I do think men and woman are very different..guys I know lose weight very quickly..my women friends it takes longer..we are built different....you are correct on one thing if you want to be skinny..Dont eat!...if you want to be healthy and lose weight the right way I believe you should exercise and eat sensibly but with a defecit absolutely but to tell someone 800 calories is ok..and have them be in an exercise program is not healthy..I dont care how many articles you show me that says its ok.0
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No, you should listen to published, peer reviewed scientific research. There's a good chance your primary physician hasn't read one of those wrt diet/exercise since medical school, if he read them at all. He's too busy pushing pills on people with the common cold, bronchitis, high cholesterol, or any number of common illnesses/conditions that people see the doctor for.But you're right, I should definitely listen to people on the internet instead of doctors, who only tell you what you want to hear anyway.
So please produce one such research article where an overweight person stopped losing weight because he/she ate too little.
I also have 2 dead family members and my wife has 1 thanks to doctors being wrong in their diagnosis/treatment (oh wait, oops, you actually have cancer...sorry it took me 2 years to find that), so yea...they're not perfect. A less serious case: Toddler daughter keeps grabbing her ear, crying, and starts getting sick. Brought her in 2x, she has nothing it's what toddlers do they said. A couple days later she finally spikes a fever. Oh, now she has an ear infection and once they gave her antibiotics she stopped grabbing her ear.
They're advisors, and if you treat them like infallable sources of authority on your own body and don't recognize where their area of expertise ends, then you run a high risk of getting bad treatment.0 -
A) That's not a peer reviewed scientific study and
The "references" it links that are written by the experts don't make any mention about the magical 1000 calorie floor leading to weight retention/gain. Livestrong just made that up (something a lot of health/fitness magazines do). In fact, I'll quote a paragraph from one of its references:
Shuold I use a Very Low Calorie Diet (VLCD) to lose weight? Note: VLCD is defined as < 1000 cal/day for a woman:
Most people who need to lose weight should not use a VLCD. For many of them, a low-calorie diet (LCD) may work better (see The Low-calorie Diet (LCD)). VLCDs may be used to promote rapid weight loss among adults who have obesity. Health care providers must review risks and benefits on a case-by-case basis. In general, VLCDs are not appropriate for children. In a few cases, they may be used with some adolescents who are being treated for obesity. Not much is known about the use of VLCDs to promote weight loss among older adults. Some people over age 50 may have medical issues that may not make them good candidates for this type of diet.
Source: http://win.niddk.nih.gov/publications/low_calorie.htm
And here's the results of the actual study that was done that was linked in the references:
Results: Six randomized trials were found that met inclusion criteria. VLCDs, compared with LCDs, induced significantly greater short-term weight losses (16.1 +/- 1.6% vs. 9.7 +/- 2.4% of initial weight, respectively; p = 0.0001) but similar long-term losses (6.3 +/- 3.2% vs. 5.0 +/- 4.0%, respectively; p > 0.2). Attrition was similar with VLCD and LCD regimens.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16988070
There was no note of plateus or weight gain in people who used a VLCD to lose weight.0 -
no why dont you produce a scientific article that states encouraging a woman over 165 lbs and exercising that eating 800 calories a day is healthy and that yes you will probably lose weight but show where it states you will keep that weight off for an extended period of time. Show me the scientific article that states advising someone you dont know her health history that its safe to lose weight by starving your body. When you body doesnt have the fuel it turns towards using your muscles which can affect your heart.. If she is burning 500 cal a day exercising and only eating 800 I dont agree with that and I was only trying to give my opinion..not stating I was smarter than anyone here.. Since when do people get so nasty..Im done with this conversation..you are irresponsible to advise someone of eating this few of calories. my opinion..have a nice day...0
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^ i like her0
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senescence
Did you mean "sustenance"?0 -
I think people who say eat more and you'll lose weight are talking bunk, but be that as it may:
I think what might be happening is that you are slowly gaining water on these pills, in such a way that it offsets any fat loss.
Do you have oedema?
Press your thumb into the shin just above the ankle, between the bones at the front. Hold it for 30 seconds. Take your thumb away. Is there a dent? Can you see where your thumb was? If so you are retaining water. Maybe your kidneys do not like your medication.
How are your measurements? Have they changed?
I would have a day or two off the exercise schedule and see if that affects anything. As to hunger - raise your calorie count to 1600 or something. There's no need to suffer.0 -
Settle down. We're all adults here, and no one's being nasty besides you.no why dont you produce a scientific article that states encouraging a woman over 165 lbs and exercising that eating 800 calories a day is healthy and that yes you will probably lose weight but show where it states you will keep that weight off for an extended period of time. Show me the scientific article that states advising someone you dont know her health history that its safe to lose weight by starving your body. When you body doesnt have the fuel it turns towards using your muscles which can affect your heart.. If she is burning 500 cal a day exercising and only eating 800 I dont agree with that and I was only trying to give my opinion..not stating I was smarter than anyone here.. Since when do people get so nasty..Im done with this conversation..you are irresponsible to advise someone of eating this few of calories. my opinion..have a nice day...
Where did anyone stated that eating 800 calories/day is healthy or a good idea? I certainly didn't. I (and others) merely stated that studies demonstrate that an overweight person eating 800 calories/day, for reals, will lose weight.
The topic is whether a plateu can be caused by eating too little. There is no scientific research I've read to support that it does, but a lot of scientific research says it won't, including the source that Livestrong cited but decided to contradict because more people would rather read about how they have to eat more than about how they have to eat less.
So there are one of two conclusions to draw: Either OP is not actually only eating 800 cal/day, or there is some other serious medical issue occurring.
I'm not pushing any particular diet; just stating that IF OP were actually eating little enough food to be considered on a VLCD, she wouldn't be plateuing.VLCD will result in very fast weight loss. The risks associated with that must be weighed against the benefits - and the benefits of rapid weight loss are *extensive* and affect the entire body.
Advising someone whose details you don't know to stay away from VLCD is just as irresponsible as pushing that person to VLCD without knowing their personal realities.0 -
Is anybody going to dispute that it is impossible to avoid losing weight if you eat - literally - nothing?
Can we all at least agree on that?0 -
With all due respect, if you are as severely hypothyroid as you say 50mcg of Levothyroxine are not going to balance your thyroid at all. 50mcg are actually very, very low with 72.5mcg being the statistical average for people with slightly low t readings on their thyroid profile.
I have no thyroid ( which is considered " severely " hypothyroid) and take a total of over 300mgs a day. People in my thyroid/immune disease group who are classified as " serious " all take 200mgs, or more. It took me a long time to get balanced, taking 125 mcg for over two years. I am now fine in regard to med adjustment and am losing and feel hardly any cravings and/or hunger pangs. It is really important that you are well balanced in regard to the amount of thyroid hormones you take.0
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