What to do after stronglifts 5x5

I've been strength training for the last few years mostlly split routines with compound and isolaition lifts on and off. Since July I've been doing the stronglifts 5x5 routine I'm still in a caloric deficit and need to lose another 15 lbs (maybe more). I

'm at the point though in this routine where I'm maxing out on the weitght in each of the lifts (not all but most especially squats) I'm planning on continuing this program for at least the next few weeks but I'm looking for input as to what I can do when I can't lift past my max even after deloading and woking back up. For example today I squatted 315lbs but didn't make all 5x5 in fact the last 3 sets I was only able to do 1. I know I'm supposed to deload after failing to get 5 x5 at each weight (and I will) but I feel I'm reaching the point where I'm maxing out and won't be able to get past this point without eating in a surplus to build muscle.

Loooking for some advice .. especially since squats are done every time and I can't expect to continue to make the same gains in strength what do especially in a caloric deficit. What do I do next?

TIA any input is greatly appreciated.

Replies

  • JenMc14
    JenMc14 Posts: 2,389 Member
    You might like Wendler 5/3/1. You focus on one big lift a workout.
  • DavPul
    DavPul Posts: 61,406 Member
    what you do next depends on what your longer term goals are (beyond losing another 15 pounds) and what you enjoy doing when it comes to exercise, neither of which is listed in your OP. Where would you like to go?

    .......and I'm not a SL guy but aren't you at the point where you should have stopped doing 5x5 and started doing 3x5? because it's hella hard to recover from that many sets of big squats each and every day.
  • DopeItUp
    DopeItUp Posts: 18,771 Member
    Definitely move down to 3x5. And/or move to Madcow 5x5 which is a similar program but introduces a light squat day and you only do 1x5 at max weight instead of 5x5. Much more sustainable. Or go straight to 5/3/1 maybe. I went to Madcow and it has lasted for at least 4x as long as SL did.
  • Strongly recommend the 5/3/1 method, which is what I moved to after finishing up on Starting Strength (basically Stronglifts, but a 3x5 routine). You do one big exercise each day, four workouts a week, with as much or as little accessory work or extra sets as you like. The idea is breaking PRs either in reps or in weight and it's very gradual progression. Highly recommended.
  • You deload and start over with new numbers plugged in.
  • quellybelly
    quellybelly Posts: 827 Member
    bump - looking for something to do after I finish SL as well :)
  • JNick77
    JNick77 Posts: 3,783 Member
    Move onto a program that will set you up better for long-term success, 5/3/1, Cube Method, Westside, Juggernaut. MadCow5x5 isn't bad in retrospect I would've cut Squats from the 2nd session period, 3-days a week gets brutal on the hip flexors.
  • whierd
    whierd Posts: 14,025 Member
    You definitely need to deload before moving on. 5x5's really beat the hell out of your muscles, especially when doing Squats and Deads on the same day.

    I started out with SL and after a couple of months found myself stalling as well. That's when I made the switch to 5/3/1. It isn't as intense as SL and allows me to focus on not only strength, but a bit of endurance and hypertrophy as well. I can also focus on specific weak points that I wasn't able to focus on as acutely when I was doing SL.
  • MrGonzo05
    MrGonzo05 Posts: 1,120 Member
    Your squat indicates you are ready for an intermediate program. Not sure if the rest of your lifts are in line with that. If in doubt, stay on a novice program. To get their squat # up, many people require heavy core work beyond the compound movements in SL 5x5. Your next big gains will probably come when you start a bulk.
  • chrisdavey
    chrisdavey Posts: 9,834 Member
    if you are only making 1 rep on your last few sets you should have deloaded already. At that point, all you are doing is testing strength not building it.

    So what are your goals beyond weight loss? That will help people give you better advice.
  • Mr_Knight
    Mr_Knight Posts: 9,532 Member
    IIRC the SL progression is 5x5 until you deload twice, then move to 3x5 on that lift.
  • DopeItUp
    DopeItUp Posts: 18,771 Member
    Move onto a program that will set you up better for long-term success, 5/3/1, Cube Method, Westside, Juggernaut. MadCow5x5 isn't bad in retrospect I would've cut Squats from the 2nd session period, 3-days a week gets brutal on the hip flexors.

    I'll agree with that last statement. I'm out of the squat game for at least a month due to destroying my hip flexors from doing SL and then Madcow since...January. That's a lotta squatting.
  • michaelmadonna
    michaelmadonna Posts: 105 Member
    what you do next depends on what your longer term goals are (beyond losing another 15 pounds) and what you enjoy doing when it comes to exercise, neither of which is listed in your OP. Where would you like to go?

    .......and I'm not a SL guy but aren't you at the point where you should have stopped doing 5x5 and started doing 3x5? because it's hella hard to recover from that many sets of big squats each and every day.

    Thanks, I appreciate your input, I've read a number of your posts and respect your opinion. My short long term goals are to maintain as much LBM and strength as I can until I lose the extra baggage then longer term goals would be to do a bulk and add some more muscle mass. I know that's down the road a bit. I haven't stopped 5x5 yet, I've been doing it since July after a few years on and off of split strength training routines with a very good trainer. From what I read you only deload after failing to make the 5x5 3x with the exercise. I've only deloaded on the OHP so far but I could tell I'm about at my limit on the squat and deadlift. I do plan on plugging along a bit more but I'm sure there'll be a point soon where I'll max out even after a deload while I'm still in a calorie deficit.
  • michaelmadonna
    michaelmadonna Posts: 105 Member
    IIRC the SL progression is 5x5 until you deload twice, then move to 3x5 on that lift.

    Thanks, I wasn't aware of this .. probably bc I had a hard time reading through all of Medhi's bs around the program.
  • michaelmadonna
    michaelmadonna Posts: 105 Member
    Your squat indicates you are ready for an intermediate program. Not sure if the rest of your lifts are in line with that. If in doubt, stay on a novice program. To get their squat # up, many people require heavy core work beyond the compound movements in SL 5x5. Your next big gains will probably come when you start a bulk.

    This is where I'm at: squat 315; OHP 155; dead 335; row 195; bench 220 - I did get up to 240 but strained by bicep tendon and had to deload quite a bit. I still feel like I could make gains on the OHP, bench and row but the squat and deadlift I'm just about done. I did expect to stall bc I'm still in a caloric deficit. Thanks
  • DavPul
    DavPul Posts: 61,406 Member
    Those are all solid numbers and to be honest, you can pretty much pick a program out a hat at this point. That's an exaggeration, but my point is that people spend way too much time trying to find the perfect program. There's a million ways to do this so if I was in your shoes I'd try whatever caught my fancy and see how things went for a weeks/months.

    Obviously, if you had a specific goal such as maximizing lifts or bodybuilding (hell, or fencing or parkour or ballet dancing) you should lean to programs with those goals in mind. But at this point, feel free to try different things and make modifications to them so that the are more to your liking. Just the fact that there are 254,355 acceptable versions of 5/3/1 would indicate that people can do what they want. (they just have to call it 5/3/1 so as to not get poo-poohed off the forums)

    Whatever you choose, my biggest recommendation is that you decrease your squat frequency. Not just 3x5 but I'd back it down to 1-2 times per week. Once I got to heavier weights, my best progress was with 1 heavy squatting day and one light leg day, where I used the leg press instead of the squat. People have different degrees of recovery ability, so you may do better with more or less. But 3x per week of 315+ is probably gonna bury you. Maybe if you were 24 and eating 3 pounds of red meat a day it could work, i guess.
  • cats847
    cats847 Posts: 131
    Check out the book "Practical Programming" by Mark Rippetoe. I got it for 10 bucks on Amazon. It gives you several different programs to try, but what I really like about it is that it explains the principles and reasoning behind each program so that you can create and customize a wide variety of your own programs, if you wish. Or you could just follow one of the several that are given. There is stuff for intermediate to advanced weightlifters, so the book will be useful for you for a long time. Plenty to pick and choose from.
  • 34blast
    34blast Posts: 166 Member
    You did great. Everyone is a little different. After you get to intermediate, it is usually very hard to get stronger on a caloric deficit diet. Most guys that are advanced or intermediate even have trouble breaking even. Most find it best at the intermediate stage to concentrate on losing weight or strength training. I would keep a 500 calorie deficit and after 10 - 15 weeks you will be there. During cutting if you choose to do cardio, you can do something like starting strength day A on Monday, day B on Thursday. Then you can do cardio on the other days. After you get there, then go to a 500 calorie surplus on either madcow or 5/3/1 until you get your lifts higher. rinse and repeat this staggering till you are big and low body fat.
  • michaelmadonna
    michaelmadonna Posts: 105 Member
    Thanks everyone for your input and advice, it's all very much appreciated. I'll definately be looking into those programs and especially lowering the number of squat days - it is getting to me, I had been doing the program basically every other day rather than 3 days a week and some cardio on the off days in between. The last couple of weeks though I had to take an extra rest day here and there and stop doing the cardio before deadlift day. I'm in no rush, but I am looking forward to the day when I could start bulking.