Fat Acceptance (HAES)

I am confused by fat acceptance. they are so busy trying not to be concerned with appearance that they end up being concerned with appearance. same with some feminists, too. I've said this before but it still baffles me so I'll repeat it here.

You mean the whole "We want women to have a choice, but only what we agree with." thing?

I love this line, it's a perfect summary of what's wrong with them.

edit: No obese people deserve to be bullied, but neither does anyone deserve it when they decide to lose weight, which happens by many people who profess "fat acceptance" to people who try to change their weight. Rinse, wash, repeat for feminists who attack women for being attractive or display any desire to enjoy their sexuality in ways that disturb them.

I see it as a double-edged sword. On one hand, it's trying to promote tolerance. However, on the other hand, it's not tackling the problems that accompany obesity, like portion control and nutrition.

I am confused by fat acceptance. they are so busy trying not to be concerned with appearance that they end up being concerned with appearance. same with some feminists, too. I've said this before but it still baffles me so I'll repeat it here.

You mean the whole "We want women to have a choice, but only what we agree with." thing?

The whole 'we want to be treated as equals' but 'WE ARE SO MUCH BETTER THAN YOU MALE SCUM!' Thing

I don't consider those individuals feminists. They distort the whole thing.

the thing is, the whole idea gets confused when people imagine that criticizing *patriarchy* = criticizing individual men

also i forgot to mention, i wonder whether it's even possible for people who consistently, over a lifetime, follow generally accepted exercise recommendations for health (30-60 mins 3-5x/wk, with some resistance, some cardio) and even general nutrition recommendations for health (whatever - fibre, folate, vit c - the freaking health pyramid even) to be obese. overweight by bmi standards or even mirror standards, sure, but idk about obese.

(but whether those particular recommendations are likely to *actually* lead to health, in every (or most) case(s), idk either. idk lots of things.)

what does exercise and nutrition have to do with being fat?

you can exercise and get proper nutrition and still be fat simply by eating more calories than you burn (on average) over a long period of time.

it's simple physics.

there are cardiovascularly fit and very strong football players who are still considered overweight or obese by BMI standards. even by body fat standards, these guys would still be considered overweight. take a look at all those 300+lb offensive and defensive linemen.

also i forgot to mention, i wonder whether it's even possible for people who consistently, over a lifetime, follow generally accepted exercise recommendations for health (30-60 mins 3-5x/wk, with some resistance, some cardio) and even general nutrition recommendations for health (whatever - fibre, folate, vit c - the freaking health pyramid even) to be obese. overweight by bmi standards or even mirror standards, sure, but idk about obese.

(but whether those particular recommendations are likely to *actually* lead to health, in every (or most) case(s), idk either. idk lots of things.)

what does exercise and nutrition have to do with being fat?

you can exercise and get proper nutrition and still be fat simply by eating more calories than you burn (on average) over a long period of time.

it's simple physics.

there are cardiovascularly fit and very strong football players who are still considered overweight or obese by BMI standards. even by body fat standards, these guys would still be considered overweight. take a look at all those 300+lb offensive and defensive linemen.

oooooh you want to be scientific about it. and also, compare regular people to professional linebackers... well ok.

look man, you can't convince me that IF

= people hit macro and micronutrients*, which, practically speaking, very roughly equates to some veg and fruit and proteins and prob some grains (ooooh i'm being controversial now) .....but yes holy jeez of course occasionally have ice cream within reasonable portions/cal limits

AND
- MOVE (get in their NEAT and targeted exercise as well) some

THEN
people are likely to stay obese. btw i did say OVERWEIGHT would be within expectation; not obese. and please do not suggest i'm an idiot to imagine a linebacker is like somebody's aunt martha. i am talking about aunt marthas.

*even the bar set by dieticians, vs bodybuilders


i lost ***20 POUNDS*** once by moving to a city that had more sidewalks than highways without changing a damn other thing.

why are you so angry?

i didn't call anyone an idiot. please don't put words in my mouth.

also i forgot to mention, i wonder whether it's even possible for people who consistently, over a lifetime, follow generally accepted exercise recommendations for health (30-60 mins 3-5x/wk, with some resistance, some cardio) and even general nutrition recommendations for health (whatever - fibre, folate, vit c - the freaking health pyramid even) to be obese. overweight by bmi standards or even mirror standards, sure, but idk about obese.

(but whether those particular recommendations are likely to *actually* lead to health, in every (or most) case(s), idk either. idk lots of things.)

what does exercise and nutrition have to do with being fat?

you can exercise and get proper nutrition and still be fat simply by eating more calories than you burn (on average) over a long period of time.

it's simple physics.

there are cardiovascularly fit and very strong football players who are still considered overweight or obese by BMI standards. even by body fat standards, these guys would still be considered overweight. take a look at all those 300+lb offensive and defensive linemen.

oooooh you want to be scientific about it. and also, compare regular people to professional linebackers... well ok.

look man, you can't convince me that IF

= people hit macro and micronutrients*, which, practically speaking, very roughly equates to some veg and fruit and proteins and prob some grains (ooooh i'm being controversial now) .....but yes holy jeez of course occasionally have ice cream within reasonable portions/cal limits

AND
- MOVE (get in their NEAT and targeted exercise as well) some

THEN
people are likely to stay obese. btw i did say OVERWEIGHT would be within expectation; not obese. and please do not suggest i'm an idiot to imagine a linebacker is like somebody's aunt martha. i am talking about aunt marthas.

*even the bar set by dieticians, vs bodybuilders


i lost ***20 POUNDS*** once by moving to a city that had more sidewalks than highways without changing a damn other thing.

why are you so angry?

i didn't call anyone an idiot. please don't put words in my mouth.

true, you didn't, sorry. & yes by 'general recommendations' i meant a ~2000cal diet (the one that's recommended in the food pyramid), which with regular recommended activity should equal something close to a net balance or at least minimal incremental gain & *for most people* should get them more or less near some kind of reasonable (for the average person) metrics.

this part ("what does exercise and nutrition have to do with being fat?") seems to me to be an example of making things perverse for the sake of it. of course exercise and nutrition have everything to do with being fat (or not)...

Have a read through this:
http://thisisthinprivilege.tumblr.com/

I do not advocate being fat as a lifestyle but as someone who spent my entire life being fat I can't say that everything on that site comes out as crazy. Some of it makes a lot of sense. You are treated very differently as a fat person. It took me over 15 years to wrap my mind around the fact that you do not need to hate yourself because you're fat and it's only with that realization that I was able to make a lasting lifestyle change.

this part ("what does exercise and nutrition have to do with being fat?") seems to me to be an example of making things perverse for the sake of it. of course exercise and nutrition have everything to do with being fat (or not)...

...and this is where you are mistaken.

weight has NOTHING to do with exercise or nutrition. weight gain/loss/maintenance is simply about the energy balance equation. that's scientific fact. it's not open to dispute.

of course nutrition and exercise are important, but you are conflating those separate issues with energy input/output.

well that seemed obvious, and was implied, but you're right, i did fail to mention the 2000 cal recommendation i thought was evident when mentioning the food pyramid guidelines

tell me, please, how calorie balance (or imbalance) occurs outside of the context of food being consumed...

They look gross, so no

this part ("what does exercise and nutrition have to do with being fat?") seems to me to be an example of making things perverse for the sake of it. of course exercise and nutrition have everything to do with being fat (or not)...

...and this is where you are mistaken.

weight has NOTHING to do with exercise or nutrition. weight gain/loss/maintenance is simply about the energy balance equation. that's scientific fact. it's not open to dispute.

of course nutrition and exercise are important, but you are conflating those separate issues with energy input/output.

well that seemed obvious, and was implied, but you're right, i did fail to mention the 2000 cal recommendation i thought was evident when mentioning the food pyramid guidelines

tell me, please, how calorie balance (or imbalance) occurs outside of the context of food being consumed...

aren't you trying to make the argument that quantity is the same as quality?

weight gain/loss/maintenance is ultimately about energy quantity.

exercise is part of the equation for energy balance, but it's only one of the variables and its effect can be easily compensated for by increasing calorie consumption. so even though exercise can improve your cardiovascular systems and muscle performance, the calorie burn from it doesn't necessarily imply weight loss.

nutrition is about energy quality.

quantity =/= quality

therefore, one does not automatically follow the other.

no, that was not really my intention. although on the whole, iifym more or less, practically speaking, does imply eating something close to the content suggested by most sensible dieticians/nutritionists. *technically* yes a person could lose weight on the twinkie diet, that is really not what i was trying to get at.

the OP is about "can an obese person be healthy", "are fat acceptance people deluding themselves", etc.

i was trying to say that if a person followed *recommendations generally made by the consensus medical community* for *health* (not weight loss),
i.e.,
- followed that food pyramid (5 fruit/veg a day, 2000 cal diet, however many servings of meats grains etc) and
- exercised the amount suggested by the ASCM or your average doctor (3-5x a week) - ie regularly hitting their cardiovascular, neuromotor, resistance targets

ie did the things that are generally thought to promote *health* (and i later qualified this by saying i am not sure to what degree they actually do)

then they would probably not find themselves obese/overfat etc (but maybe yes still 'overweight').