how to convert fat to muscle

honeysprinkles · October 2013

nevermind.
ignore the title, I know you can't convert fat to muscle. I'm deleting this post but I left behind the general idea of it in the comment below if anyone wants to answer!

honeysprinkles · October 2013

maybe it's too long, so I'll bump this post with a shorter version.

will eating at maintenance and doing strength training make me look any better? and if so, how?

vorgas · October 2013

Short answer: yes

Explanation:
First off, there is a difference between trained and untrained muscles. Trained muscles are better. They can store more glycogen (energy), they utilize glycogen more efficiently, and they use more free fatty acids. Now, lets say your maintenance is 1500 calories a day. And you eat strictly 1500 calories. If more of that 1500 calories is being converted into glycogen, that means your body needs to get the extra energy from somewhere, so it's going to come from your fat stores. Ergo, less fat.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10956363
http://www.paleoscholar.com/?p=93

Second, strength training is a neuromuscular function. When you try to lift a heavy weight a lot of muscles have to get fired up in a coordinated effort. Of course, if you're on a machine then you won't activate as many. But even still, you will see rapid gains in the amount of weight you can lift with a given exercise in the first month. This is the neuro part of it. And if you're lifting more weight you're burning more calories. Plain and simple. That means even at maintenance that extra energy comes from fat, right? Less fat is what you want. Of course, this does assume you're actually increasing the weight and are doing actual strength training, not just lifting up 5 lb dumbbells or doing 3 sets of 30 reps on some machine.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17241104
http://www.isometric-training.com/physical-strength.html

Third, strength training raises your metabolism. When you rip apart your muscles lifting heavy weights, protein that you consume is used to rebuild them. Well, if the protein is getting used for muscle repair, then it can't be utilized for energy, can it? So where is that energy gonna from if you're eating at maintenance? Fat stores.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strength_training

Finally (in regards to body recomposition), if X number of calories can support Y number of pounds, and you gain just a little muscle mass, than X calories is not going to allow you to carry as much fat. It's basic science. And muscle is more dense than fat, so a pound of muscle looks much thinner than a pound of fat.

Now, I'm not saying eating at maintenance while doing strength training is going to radically alter your body. There may be better methods over a longer term to achieve what you want, such as a period of adding muscle, followed by a period of cutting fat. However, if what's important to you is eating at maintenance, then there are plenty of appearance benefits that can come from lifting weights.

Don't forget, as your muscles develop your posture will improve dramatically. Your confidence will soar. Etc, etc, etc. All of these contribute to a better appearance.

And, as a reminder, if you're a scale watcher, when you first start any weight training you can expect weight gain. This is almost all liquid and will taper off after a few weeks. In fact, if you don't gain weight, you're doing it wrong

*EDIT* - All of this was in response to the original post, which seems to have been deleted while I was typing it. Lol.

honeysprinkles · October 2013

THANK YOU! :flowerforyou: :flowerforyou:

That's exactly the kind of reply that I was hoping for!

I only decided to eat at maintenance because I don't really want to get any bigger and also because I've been at a deficit for so long that trying to eat at a surplus everyday would just be too much for me!

Any advice on how to get the fat to come off the areas that I want it to and not just my upper body? Or does this fall into the "can't spot reduce" category?

jimmmer · October 2013

Any advice on how to get the fat to come off the areas that I want it to and not just my upper body? Or does this fall into the "can't spot reduce" category?

It falls into the can't spot reduce category, I'm afraid. It'll be determined by genetics as to where your body likes to stash it.

For me, it's always the love handles that go last!

vorgas · October 2013

Any advice on how to get the fat to come off the areas that I want it to and not just my upper body? Or does this fall into the "can't spot reduce" category?

Generally speaking, you can't spot reduce.

That being said, there is research to suggest that where your body stores fat in the first place is affected by a number of factors. That means, over time, it is possible to "shift" your fat stores. I'm not claiming this is gospel. For every study that shows an effect, there's another that questions the methodologies.

However, one notion that is generally accepted is that excess Cortisol causes you to store fat around your belly. Cortisol is produced by stress, including not getting enough sleep at night (which is a stressor whether you feel it or not). So get plenty of sleep. See if that helps

http://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/132b22/how_does_our_body_decide_where_to_store_fat/

Another, less accepted notion, is that refined carbs (which has a greater effect on your insulin levels, the so called glycemic index) leads to increased belly fat as well. This, of course, flies in the face of the prevaling MFP notion that a calorie is a calorie is a calorie. But I think the idea here is that if you are eating exactly at maintenance, then you won't gain or lose weight, which would include body fat. So a shift in body fat location doesn't dispell this notion.
http://www.myhealthywaist.org/the-concept-of-cmr/intra-abdominal-adipose-tissue-the-culprit/complications-of-intra-abdominal-obesity/glucoseinsulin-homeostasis/page/7/index.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glycemic_index

So, basically, you can't spot reduce. But you may notice some long term differences in belly fat by cutting out refined carbs and getting more sleep

But this does mean that you will likely gain fat elsewhere instead. From a strictly appearance standpoint, this may be desirable.

peterjasper · October 2013

Bump

astronomicals · October 2013

skip recomp.... do bulk..... cut again.... then recomp....

u get to eat more for a while... you get faster results... and when you cut the fat next time you be all like "dammmm... me so sexyy"

maitenance when you arent at your desired figure is like "damnnnn... im trying so hard and so little is happening"

pick your poison

Mr_Knight · October 2013

will eating at maintenance and doing strength training make me look any better? and if so, how?

One consistent bit of information I get is that you are much better off - both in terms of time it takes and end result - to do bulking/cutting cycles instead of "recomposition at maintenance".

Grace215lbs · October 2013

Short answer: yes

Explanation:
First off, there is a difference between trained and untrained muscles. Trained muscles are better. They can store more glycogen (energy), they utilize glycogen more efficiently, and they use more free fatty acids. Now, lets say your maintenance is 1500 calories a day. And you eat strictly 1500 calories. If more of that 1500 calories is being converted into glycogen, that means your body needs to get the extra energy from somewhere, so it's going to come from your fat stores. Ergo, less fat.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10956363
http://www.paleoscholar.com/?p=93

Second, strength training is a neuromuscular function. When you try to lift a heavy weight a lot of muscles have to get fired up in a coordinated effort. Of course, if you're on a machine then you won't activate as many. But even still, you will see rapid gains in the amount of weight you can lift with a given exercise in the first month. This is the neuro part of it. And if you're lifting more weight you're burning more calories. Plain and simple. That means even at maintenance that extra energy comes from fat, right? Less fat is what you want. Of course, this does assume you're actually increasing the weight and are doing actual strength training, not just lifting up 5 lb dumbbells or doing 3 sets of 30 reps on some machine.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17241104
http://www.isometric-training.com/physical-strength.html

Third, strength training raises your metabolism. When you rip apart your muscles lifting heavy weights, protein that you consume is used to rebuild them. Well, if the protein is getting used for muscle repair, then it can't be utilized for energy, can it? So where is that energy gonna from if you're eating at maintenance? Fat stores.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strength_training

Finally (in regards to body recomposition), if X number of calories can support Y number of pounds, and you gain just a little muscle mass, than X calories is not going to allow you to carry as much fat. It's basic science. And muscle is more dense than fat, so a pound of muscle looks much thinner than a pound of fat.

Now, I'm not saying eating at maintenance while doing strength training is going to radically alter your body. There may be better methods over a longer term to achieve what you want, such as a period of adding muscle, followed by a period of cutting fat. However, if what's important to you is eating at maintenance, then there are plenty of appearance benefits that can come from lifting weights.

Don't forget, as your muscles develop your posture will improve dramatically. Your confidence will soar. Etc, etc, etc. All of these contribute to a better appearance.

And, as a reminder, if you're a scale watcher, when you first start any weight training you can expect weight gain. This is almost all liquid and will taper off after a few weeks. In fact, if you don't gain weight, you're doing it wrong

*EDIT* - All of this was in response to the original post, which seems to have been deleted while I was typing it. Lol.

You're a champ! Thanks =D

honeysprinkles · October 2013

skip recomp.... do bulk..... cut again.... then recomp....

u get to eat more for a while... you get faster results... and when you cut the fat next time you be all like "dammmm... me so sexyy"

maitenance when you arent at your desired figure is like "damnnnn... im trying so hard and so little is happening"

pick your poison

the idea of bulking, after 2 years of intentional weight loss, is just so hard to subscribe to mentally! I have no idea how to do it! any advice? still not sure if I'm up for giving it a try, but I believe you when you say it's probably the more effective route to take!

honeysprinkles · October 2013

Any advice on how to get the fat to come off the areas that I want it to and not just my upper body? Or does this fall into the "can't spot reduce" category?

Generally speaking, you can't spot reduce.

That being said, there is research to suggest that where your body stores fat in the first place is affected by a number of factors. That means, over time, it is possible to "shift" your fat stores. I'm not claiming this is gospel. For every study that shows an effect, there's another that questions the methodologies.

However, one notion that is generally accepted is that excess Cortisol causes you to store fat around your belly. Cortisol is produced by stress, including not getting enough sleep at night (which is a stressor whether you feel it or not). So get plenty of sleep. See if that helps
http://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/132b22/how_does_our_body_decide_where_to_store_fat/

Another, less accepted notion, is that refined carbs (which has a greater effect on your insulin levels, the so called glycemic index) leads to increased belly fat as well. This, of course, flies in the face of the prevaling MFP notion that a calorie is a calorie is a calorie. But I think the idea here is that if you are eating exactly at maintenance, then you won't gain or lose weight, which would include body fat. So a shift in body fat location doesn't dispell this notion.
http://www.myhealthywaist.org/the-concept-of-cmr/intra-abdominal-adipose-tissue-the-culprit/complications-of-intra-abdominal-obesity/glucoseinsulin-homeostasis/page/7/index.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glycemic_index

So, basically, you can't spot reduce. But you may notice some long term differences in belly fat by cutting out refined carbs and getting more sleep But this does mean that you will likely gain fat elsewhere instead. From a strictly appearance standpoint, this may be desirable.

I'm pear shaped, and I am pretty thin now, I just want to lose an inch or two of my hips but can't keep losing because it's coming off in the wrong spots (my upper body mostly)! so belly fat isn't really an issue, not that I couldn't improve!

vorgas · October 2013

the idea of bulking, after 2 years of intentional weight loss, is just so hard to subscribe to mentally! I have no idea how to do it! any advice? still not sure if I'm up for giving it a try, but I believe you when you say it's probably the more effective route to take!

I'm not going to say this is the best method for a bulking/cutting cycle, but given that you have some reluctance in this area, this may work well for you. The benefit is that it will take quite a long time before you actually start bulking. This will give you some time to adjust to it mentally, as well as allow your body time to adapt to eating at maintenance instead of deficit. You won't have to force down a lot of extra food, and be battling mental issues as well as physical fatigue.

Continue eating at maintenance in the beginning. Remember, you're going to see some changes in strength just from the muscular training aspects. Make sure you are eating plenty of protein. Generally at least 1 gram per pound of muscle.

Now find a beginners program like Stronglifts 5x5, Starting Strength, or New Rules of Lifting for Women. They all have their pros and cons, so it's just a matter of which one you like most. There are groups here on MFP for people doing each of these, so you can get support here and have your questions answered if you join them.

Regardless of which program you choose, start at a weight that's extremely light, say where you can do 20 reps straight. In this way you can learn proper form and technique, which is crucial. Every time you do an exercise, increase the weight from the time before.

When you can't complete all your reps, cut them back by 2 to 5 reps until you are at about 6 reps. When the majority of your lifts are stalling out at this point, you can go into a slight bulking phase.

Each round of bulking follows the same pattern:
* Reduce the weight you are lifting by 25% to 40%. This is called deloading. Your muscles are worn out and need some time to recover.
* Add 200 calories to your daily intake.
* Add weight each time you perform an exercise until you stall out.
* When more than half of your lifts have stalled, start a new bulking round.

Repeat this process as many times as you want (but at least twice). Basically, as long as you are comfortable with your body image, keep doing it.

When you are no longer happy, start cutting. While cutting, eat lots of protein. You should have at least 1 gram per pound of body weight every day. To cut, reduce your calorie intake by 100 calories per week until you are at about a 300 calorie a day deficit. If you want to be more aggressive, go for a 500 calorie a day deficit (1 lb per week). The bigger your deficit, the more muscle you will lose while cutting.

Cut, cut, cut until your friends are all DAYYYUM. At this point, you should have some idea of what works for you and what doesn't. You can begin a more aggressive method if you want.

honeysprinkles · October 2013

thanks a lot for the info! I think I'll give it a try!

Do you think it would be okay to start out with a deficit of maybe 250, then work to maintenance and then start the bulk phase? I'm 119 right now, I think I'd be more comfortable working down to 115 with a small deficit first and then going up to 120 or 125 over time, and then maybe coming back to 120 but with more muscle and less fat. I really don't know anything about bulking and cutting, so I don't know if this sounds like an okay plan or if it would be better to just start now? thanks again for the help!

astronomicals · October 2013

lift weights.. find maintenance... stay there for a couple weeks to ensure you're not losing or gaining... add 100-150 calories to daily requirements.... if weight gain stops for 2 weeks add another 100 calories.... put on 10 pounds or just keep going til you feel the need to cut again...

this isnt the most aggressive bulking recommendations... its a simple clean bulk... if you follow those simple rules and put some effort into doing a proper strength training program you'll have good results.

quite frankly, your just giving your body building blocks.. the term "bulk" is misleading

vorgas · October 2013

thanks a lot for the info! I think I'll give it a try!

Do you think it would be okay to start out with a deficit of maybe 250, then work to maintenance and then start the bulk phase? I'm 119 right now, I think I'd be more comfortable working down to 115 with a small deficit first and then going up to 120 or 125 over time, and then maybe coming back to 120 but with more muscle and less fat. I really don't know anything about bulking and cutting, so I don't know if this sounds like an okay plan or if it would be better to just start now? thanks again for the help!

Going by the scale is a recipe for disaster. Remember where you will gain water weight when you start lifting? If you wait until youre down to 115 it will be a misleading and discouraging effort. If you feel the need, get yourself a scale that also measures body fat %.

If you want to start below maintenance, thats fine, but increase calories when your strength *gains* stall out. In other words, when you cant lift more weight this time than last time, youve stalled. Dont wait until youre at 115. Muscle is leaner than fat. Muscle uses more calories at rest than fat. Muscle makes you look better naked. Dont keep losing more muscle before you decide to add muscle

WendyTerry420 · October 2013

Any advice on how to get the fat to come off the areas that I want it to and not just my upper body? Or does this fall into the "can't spot reduce" category?

Generally speaking, you can't spot reduce.

That being said, there is research to suggest that where your body stores fat in the first place is affected by a number of factors. That means, over time, it is possible to "shift" your fat stores. I'm not claiming this is gospel. For every study that shows an effect, there's another that questions the methodologies.

However, one notion that is generally accepted is that excess Cortisol causes you to store fat around your belly. Cortisol is produced by stress, including not getting enough sleep at night (which is a stressor whether you feel it or not). So get plenty of sleep. See if that helps
http://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/132b22/how_does_our_body_decide_where_to_store_fat/

Another, less accepted notion, is that refined carbs (which has a greater effect on your insulin levels, the so called glycemic index) leads to increased belly fat as well. This, of course, flies in the face of the prevaling MFP notion that a calorie is a calorie is a calorie. But I think the idea here is that if you are eating exactly at maintenance, then you won't gain or lose weight, which would include body fat. So a shift in body fat location doesn't dispell this notion.
http://www.myhealthywaist.org/the-concept-of-cmr/intra-abdominal-adipose-tissue-the-culprit/complications-of-intra-abdominal-obesity/glucoseinsulin-homeostasis/page/7/index.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glycemic_index

So, basically, you can't spot reduce. But you may notice some long term differences in belly fat by cutting out refined carbs and getting more sleep But this does mean that you will likely gain fat elsewhere instead. From a strictly appearance standpoint, this may be desirable.

I think there is truth to this. I have been cycling my calories the last few months. Instead of bulking/cutting, I am maintaining/cutting. I have noticed that this last maintenance round, my measurements show that I have gained a half an inch in my hips, but I lost about an inch around each arm and a half inch around my calves. I am pretty sure that my body shifted the fat because my weight s the same and my BF% is only down by 1%.

honeysprinkles · October 2013

thanks a lot for the info! I think I'll give it a try!

Do you think it would be okay to start out with a deficit of maybe 250, then work to maintenance and then start the bulk phase? I'm 119 right now, I think I'd be more comfortable working down to 115 with a small deficit first and then going up to 120 or 125 over time, and then maybe coming back to 120 but with more muscle and less fat. I really don't know anything about bulking and cutting, so I don't know if this sounds like an okay plan or if it would be better to just start now? thanks again for the help!

Going by the scale is a recipe for disaster. Remember where you will gain water weight when you start lifting? If you wait until youre down to 115 it will be a misleading and discouraging effort. If you feel the need, get yourself a scale that also measures body fat %.

If you want to start below maintenance, thats fine, but increase calories when your strength *gains* stall out. In other words, when you cant lift more weight this time than last time, youve stalled. Dont wait until youre at 115. Muscle is leaner than fat. Muscle uses more calories at rest than fat. Muscle makes you look better naked. Dont keep losing more muscle before you decide to add muscle

you're right, I guess there is no sense in waiting!

honeysprinkles · October 2013

lift weights.. find maintenance... stay there for a couple weeks to ensure you're not losing or gaining... add 100-150 calories to daily requirements.... if weight gain stops for 2 weeks add another 100 calories.... put on 10 pounds or just keep going til you feel the need to cut again...

this isnt the most aggressive bulking recommendations... its a simple clean bulk... if you follow those simple rules and put some effort into doing a proper strength training program you'll have good results.

quite frankly, your just giving your body building blocks.. the term "bulk" is misleading

ok, thank you! I will try that! should I really gain 10 pounds before cutting again, is that a normal amount? I'm sure some of it will be muscle and some will inevitably be fat, around what ratio is normal? sorry for so many questions, but I have a lot to learn about this!

honeysprinkles · October 2013

Oh and I have one more question. Obviously I'll eat my exercise calories back that are burned through cardio, but what about when lifting? Should I still wear my hrm and eat those calories back, or just ignore it? thanks!

firstsip · October 2013

Oh and I have one more question. Obviously I'll eat my exercise calories back that are burned through cardio, but what about when lifting? Should I still wear my hrm and eat those calories back, or just ignore it? thanks!

Unfortunately, HRM are not designed to be used with weight lifting. It's a good idea to try and eat higher on days of weight lifting in general, and you can either use base MFP (and other website) estimates for strength training, or track as "1 calorie" and eat at maintenance or higher (higher if you do decide to bulk).