Weights... heavy and slow or light and fast?

jazi719
jazi719 Posts: 150 Member
in Fitness and Exercise
This always confused me.

I have Chalene Extreme workout and her moves are heavy and slow. Then there's Les Mills Pump which is light weights and more reps, faster movement.

I enjoy both of them but which is more beneficial for toning?
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Replies

  • Lula16
    Lula16 Posts: 628 Member
    I also have both of those programs so I would like to see some comments about this. I love les mills pump. I had great results on the first round- I lost 9lbs and my body shrunk. Chalean extreme i have tried it several times but I lose interest quick. Right now I just started a hybrid with another round of les mills pump and insanity.
  • WooggyBear
    WooggyBear Posts: 17
    Les Mills Pump is designed to work your fast twitch muscle fibers and burn fat using a lot of reps and lighter weight. CE is designed to help you build a little muscle and the slow twitch muscle fibers while burning fat and converting fat to muscle. Both are great for losing weight and burning fat. But for toning Pump if the better of the 2 because it doesn't let you build much but it lets you burn the fat around your existing muscle exposing your already established muscle. AKA: Toning

    So again it depends on where you want to take your body. Also you have to take into consideration your body type and your type does play a role in choosing your training regiment and style.
    Ectomorph
    Mesomorph
    Endomorph

    http://www.muscleandstrength.com/articles/body-types-ectomorph-mesomorph-endomorph.html

    Happy Researching :)
  • Leadfoot_Lewis
    Leadfoot_Lewis Posts: 1,623 Member
    Losing fat and gaining muscle is what toning is - the speed of your reps is irrelevant. You always want to lift the heaviest weight you can with good form in a lower rep range e.g. 6-12 reps.

    Also, Body Pump is a cardio workout, not a strength training workout.
  • jacksonpt
    jacksonpt Posts: 10,413 Member
    Both have benefits. Which you do depends on your specific goals. For toning, I'd tend to say heavy and slow/controlled.
  • jazi719
    jazi719 Posts: 150 Member

    Also, Body Pump is a cardio workout, not a strength training workout.

    Have you done Les Mills Pump? I can't imagine it being a cardio workout.
  • jazi719
    jazi719 Posts: 150 Member
    Both have benefits. Which you do depends on your specific goals. For toning, I'd tend to say heavy and slow/controlled.

    So lets say my specific goal right now is to just lose weight.
  • jazi719
    jazi719 Posts: 150 Member

    Ectomorph
    Mesomorph
    Endomorph

    http://www.muscleandstrength.com/articles/body-types-ectomorph-mesomorph-endomorph.html

    Happy Researching :)

    This seems like it's geared toward men.
  • jeffpettis
    jeffpettis Posts: 865 Member
    Les Mills Pump is designed to work your fast twitch muscle fibers and burn fat using a lot of reps and lighter weight. CE is designed to help you build a little muscle and the slow twitch muscle fibers while burning fat and converting fat to muscle. Both are great for losing weight and burning fat. But for toning Pump if the better of the 2 because it doesn't let you build much but it lets you burn the fat around your existing muscle exposing your already established muscle. AKA: Toning

    So again it depends on where you want to take your body. Also you have to take into consideration your body type and your type does play a role in choosing your training regiment and style.
    Ectomorph
    Mesomorph
    Endomorph

    http://www.muscleandstrength.com/articles/body-types-ectomorph-mesomorph-endomorph.html

    Happy Researching :)

    Just to clarify, fat doesn't turn into muscle. Fat gets burned as energy or stored for later. Fat is fat and muscle is muscle. :drinker:
  • jacksonpt
    jacksonpt Posts: 10,413 Member
    Both have benefits. Which you do depends on your specific goals. For toning, I'd tend to say heavy and slow/controlled.

    So lets say my specific goal right now is to just lose weight.

    That's about diet, not exercise.
  • jmreich30
    jmreich30 Posts: 23 Member
    I did Les Mills Body pump and lost 80lbs doing it about 2 times a week and 2-3 days of cardio and lots of walking. I like to call Body Pump aerobic lifting. It definitly gets your heart rate up, probably about into the low end of cardio and the top end of fat burning zone. I never used a heart rate monitor but I did use a BodyMedia Link while taking it. Its light weight but you can get up to 60Kg on the bar for squats, and when your doing about 100 squats in 5 minutes thats plenty of weight. As long as you continously try to challenge yourself continously adding weight to the bar when you can you'll get results. Also if you have a good instructor. I have two friends who teach it, they are the ones who got me into it. A good instructor will continously change up the workout routines with different BP releases so that you don't get the muscle memory to the same release doing it for more that 2 or 3 weeks.

    I just started a 10 week extreme fitness class last week with boot camps and kick boxing just to change it up a bit after doing Body Pump since January. But I plan on going back to it after as its a great work out and has some good music.
  • RGv2
    RGv2 Posts: 5,789 Member
    Les Mills Pump is designed to work your fast twitch muscle fibers and burn fat using a lot of reps and lighter weight. CE is designed to help you build a little muscle and the slow twitch muscle fibers while burning fat and converting fat to muscle. Both are great for losing weight and burning fat. But for toning Pump if the better of the 2 because it doesn't let you build much but it lets you burn the fat around your existing muscle exposing your already established muscle. AKA: Toning

    So again it depends on where you want to take your body. Also you have to take into consideration your body type and your type does play a role in choosing your training regiment and style.
    Ectomorph
    Mesomorph
    Endomorph

    http://www.muscleandstrength.com/articles/body-types-ectomorph-mesomorph-endomorph.html

    Happy Researching :)

    A) OP is female. She's not going to "build much" with either program.
    B) No One "builds much" when in a caloric deficit to lose weight.
  • cwolfman13
    cwolfman13 Posts: 41,865 Member
    Both have benefits. Which you do depends on your specific goals. For toning, I'd tend to say heavy and slow/controlled.

    So lets say my specific goal right now is to just lose weight.

    That's about diet, not exercise.

    I just want to belabor this point because it is spot on. Diet for weight control, exercise for fitness.
  • msf74
    msf74 Posts: 3,498 Member
    Either is fine.

    With higher rep range work you perhaps need to have greater awareness that the last few reps are challenging. Otherwise it can simply turn into a cardio type workout which can cause an excessive calorie deficit (which is the problem - not the actual rep range itself.)
  • Leadfoot_Lewis
    Leadfoot_Lewis Posts: 1,623 Member
    Have you done Les Mills Pump? I can't imagine it being a cardio workout.

    Yes I have. Lifting a light weight a zillion times is cardio in my world. Lifting a weight so heavy that I can only do 8 reps or so with good form IS what strength training IS.
  • bcf7683
    bcf7683 Posts: 1,653 Member

    Also, Body Pump is a cardio workout, not a strength training workout.

    Have you done Les Mills Pump? I can't imagine it being a cardio workout.

    Yes. And it's WORLDS different than lifting heavy to build muscle.

    To build muscle you squat A LOT of weight for 5-10 reps. Not 15lbs until a 3 minute song is over.

    Lifting heavy weight with a steady (not fast) tempo is to build muscle. Lifting light weight for high reps is cardio. It elevates your heart rate and builds muscle endurance, not muscle size.
  • No_Finish_Line
    No_Finish_Line Posts: 3,661 Member
    most definetly one can do cardio with resistance.

    If you've ever done the Asylum DVDs, you know what a cardio dumbell routine is. hell, even p90x resistance workouts are very close to cardio workouts if you never pause it.

    I'm assuming that less mills is going to deliever more of what your looking for based on your question, but dont under estimate how many calories lower rep training can do, especailly with high set volume.

    either way, if you don't go to failure your wasting your time. obiviously its more difficult and perhaps more dangerous to go to failure with lighter weights in a less mills type workout, but the closer you flirt with actual failure, the more effective it will be.

    bottom line, light weight or heavy, regardless of tempo, if your doing a set and you think you can do more, do more.
  • RGv2
    RGv2 Posts: 5,789 Member
    Have you done Les Mills Pump? I can't imagine it being a cardio workout.

    Yes I have. Lifting a light weight a zillion times is cardio in my world. Lifting a weight so heavy that I can only do 8 reps or so with good form IS what strength training IS.

    Agreed.
  • juliewatkin
    juliewatkin Posts: 764 Member
    Both have benefits. Which you do depends on your specific goals. For toning, I'd tend to say heavy and slow/controlled.

    So lets say my specific goal right now is to just lose weight.

    That's about diet, not exercise.

    Yeah. I was going to add, eat less.
  • FrnkLft
    FrnkLft Posts: 1,821 Member
    Man we really need an FAQ on this site...
  • Deadlay
    Deadlay Posts: 135 Member
    Who says you need to pick?

    Do both and vary your routine.
  • No_Finish_Line
    No_Finish_Line Posts: 3,661 Member
    Lifting heavy weight with a steady (not fast) tempo is to build muscle. Lifting light weight for high reps is cardio. It elevates your heart rate and builds muscle endurance, not muscle size.

    a carefully constructed workout could give you a very high and sustained heart rate, and still be in an appropriate rep range to build muslce. but you'd be lifting more what most people would probably consider moderate weight rather then light weight.

    from what i've been reading recently, going lower in reps (probably 8 or less) is best for strength, but mass built more by high volume training. how heavy you are lifting is probably less important then always reaching failure regardless of rep range and altering your training frequently, including weight/rep range... when it comes to mass building
  • Stage14
    Stage14 Posts: 1,046 Member
    "Toning" is losing the fat over your muscles and strengthening them so that they have more visible definition. Lifting heavy (with mainly compound lifts) is probably the most effective way to achieve that. But really, in the end, you should do whichever workout you prefer and are more likely to stick with. And yes, Body [insert exercise type here] classes are largely cardio with resistance moves rather than focused strength training.
  • bcf7683
    bcf7683 Posts: 1,653 Member
    Lifting heavy weight with a steady (not fast) tempo is to build muscle. Lifting light weight for high reps is cardio. It elevates your heart rate and builds muscle endurance, not muscle size.

    a carefully constructed workout could give you a very high and sustained heart rate, and still be in an appropriate rep range to build muslce. but you'd be lifting more what most people would probably consider moderate weight rather then light weight.

    I was referring to the class that she was talking about :yawn:
  • RGv2
    RGv2 Posts: 5,789 Member

    Also, Body Pump is a cardio workout, not a strength training workout.

    Have you done Les Mills Pump? I can't imagine it being a cardio workout.

    Yes. And it's WORLDS different than lifting heavy to build muscle.

    To build muscle you squat A LOT of weight for 5-10 reps. Not 15lbs until a 3 minute song is over.

    Lifting heavy weight with a steady (not fast) tempo is to build muscle. Lifting light weight for high reps is cardio. It elevates your heart rate and builds muscle endurance, not muscle size.

    Disagree. That's more about building strength. You can do all the heavy lifts at a slow pace, but if you aren't providing the building blocks through diet, gains in mass will be minimal, but gains in strength can be exponential.
  • FerretBuellerr
    FerretBuellerr Posts: 468 Member
    I always thought that ensuring proper form when lifting weights (thus going slow, controlling the movements) was the best way to ensure the most of the workout?
  • evdenapoli
    evdenapoli Posts: 164 Member
    Les Mills Pump is designed to work your fast twitch muscle fibers and burn fat using a lot of reps and lighter weight. CE is designed to help you build a little muscle and the slow twitch muscle fibers while burning fat and converting fat to muscle. Both are great for losing weight and burning fat. But for toning Pump if the better of the 2 because it doesn't let you build much but it lets you burn the fat around your existing muscle exposing your already established muscle. AKA: Toning

    So again it depends on where you want to take your body. Also you have to take into consideration your body type and your type does play a role in choosing your training regiment and style.
    Ectomorph
    Mesomorph
    Endomorph

    AWSEOME response!!
    I recently just discovered the Body type and how loosing fat/weight is affected.

    http://www.muscleandstrength.com/articles/body-types-ectomorph-mesomorph-endomorph.html

    Happy Researching :)
  • jazi719
    jazi719 Posts: 150 Member
    Thank you, those of you who responded politely :wink:

    Okay, so both will tone but heavy and slower will tone faster, lift til you can't life (which is more Chalene Extreme not Les Mills)... is this correct?

    As for Les being Cardio, it's interesting, I don't really break much of a sweat. Now, The Firm workout which is low impact and weights, wow, that I would consider cardio as well as strength training. Maybe I need heavier weights for Les Mills. I will def give it a try.

    I can't eat less because I am at 1200 calories according to MFP, that's what I should be eating, so I will not go lower than that. Adding exercise will allow me to eat a little more.
  • jacksonpt
    jacksonpt Posts: 10,413 Member
    I always thought that ensuring proper form when lifting weights (thus going slow, controlling the movements) was the best way to ensure the most of the workout?

    Not necessarily. Correct form is, at it's most basic, about avoiding injury. You can often get better lifts with slightly less perfect form, but you increase the risk of injury. When form goes completely to hell, then you're likely to end up hurt AND not working muscles very effectively.
  • FrnkLft
    FrnkLft Posts: 1,821 Member
    I always thought that ensuring proper form when lifting weights (thus going slow, controlling the movements) was the best way to ensure the most of the workout?

    Not necessarily. Correct form is, at it's most basic, about avoiding injury. You can often get better lifts with slightly less perfect form, but you increase the risk of injury. When form goes completely to hell, then you're likely to end up hurt AND not working muscles very effectively.

    Yeah the "go slow" thing is a popular misconception. What's of utmost importance is to control the weight and keep good form. If you do it quickly otherwise, or slowly, it doesn't matter.

    In fact, it's always better to do it with what is referred to as "explosiveness". So, when pushing or pulling, give it maximum effort to move the weight as quickly as possible (even if it's heavy and crawling lol), once again provided you are still in control and keeping good form.

    Most of the time trainers recommend going slow because inexperienced lifters tend to otherwise "throw" the weight or use momentum from rep to rep if they go too fast.


    Oh, and seriously, remove "tone" from your vocabulary. If you want to look "toned", you need to lower your body fat and build muscle, and that's really it. Simple.
  • JNick77
    JNick77 Posts: 3,783 Member
    Les Mills Pump is designed to work your fast twitch muscle fibers and burn fat using a lot of reps and lighter weight.

    If Les Mills is light weight and high reps how is it training your fast twitch muscle fibers? Fast twitch muscles are typically trained...

    - Max Effort:
    - Dynamic Effort
    - Plyometrics

    None of those categories are light weight for a lot of reps. Yes Dynamic Effort is typically lighter weight but it's usually very low reps, like 2 - 3. Well, maybe not the plyometrics but even moderate reps isn't "high".
    most definetly one can do cardio with resistance

    Yup, go to a BootCamp or CrossFit class.
    Disagree. That's more about building strength. You can do all the heavy lifts at a slow pace

    You can disagree but you would be wrong. In lifting any weight momentum should definitely be used, almost a controlled explosiveness if you will. Even though the weight is moving slowly, that doesn't mean that the lifter didn't explode into it. You're not going to be lifting anything heavy if you try to do it slowly. That doesn't mean you lose control and use poor form but you definitely want to be explosive. One strength coach I like to read from said to get violent with the weight.

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