PALEO: pros, cons and whatever else you may think?

One reasonably healthy typical Subway sandwich can be a half a day's calories.

The obvious inference, then, is that for you a "typical Subway sandwich" is not, in reality, a "reasonably healthy" option.

PROS:

It can work well and quickly for weight loss
No need for the hassle of calorie counting
Can help regularise cravings
Can help with digestive discomfort

CONS:

Restrictive food choice
Lack of cake
Can be expensive
Can be hard to implement into day to day life
Did I mention lack of cake?

There is ALWAYS the need for counting calories. Always. Your weight is an equation of calories in vs. calories out. That's IT. There are no magical foods. If you eat 10,000 calories worth of organic salad in a day, you will gain weight. If you eat 1,500 calories worth of KFC in a day, you won't. All food plans are basically shams. If they work, it's only because it manages your calories without you realizing it. And that's why people get off them when they reach their goal and then gain everything back. You need to learn to manage your calories with your everyday diet. No, NO food plan will teach you that. Only you can, using the food you already eat every day. That's the only reliable way to get lifelong results.

I strongly disagree. A calorie deficit might be necessary to lose weight (may not be necessary to lose FAT though), but that does NOT mean that counting said calories is necessary. For some people (like myself), just eating (mostly) "paleo" allows them to lose/maintain "weight" without ever COUNTING anything. I use the word "weight" loosely because I focus more on body comp than my weight on the scale.

Calories count but you don't have to count calories...

PROS:

It can work well and quickly for weight loss
No need for the hassle of calorie counting
Can help regularise cravings
Can help with digestive discomfort

CONS:

Restrictive food choice
Lack of cake
Can be expensive
Can be hard to implement into day to day life
Did I mention lack of cake?

Does not compute.

PROS:

It can work well and quickly for weight loss
No need for the hassle of calorie counting
Can help regularise cravings
Can help with digestive discomfort

CONS:

Restrictive food choice
Lack of cake
Can be expensive
Can be hard to implement into day to day life
Did I mention lack of cake?

Does not compute.

Good lord. Another one.

You need a calorie deficit but you don't need to actually count calories on a conscious level to achieve that.

Unconscious competence as an end goal? Anyone? No?

I'm taking my ball and going home.

To me that's the long term goal: a happy life, healthy relationship with food AS I DEFINE IT and no counting, while maintaining a healthy weight.

PROS:

It can work well and quickly for weight loss
No need for the hassle of calorie counting
Can help regularise cravings
Can help with digestive discomfort

CONS:

Restrictive food choice
Lack of cake
Can be expensive
Can be hard to implement into day to day life
Did I mention lack of cake?

Does not compute.

Good lord. Another one.

You need a calorie deficit but you don't need to actually count calories on a conscious level to achieve that.

Unconscious competence as an end goal? Anyone? No?

I'm taking my ball and going home.

IMO, if you take some who has been obese for their entire life, and told them to go onto a Paleo diet, calorie counting will still be needed on average. For those that are calorie conscious from previously counting and are educated, I would think that they would have at least a decent idea how many calories they're consuming. Those that have done it for a while, probably won't need it. But saying that simply going on Paleo will eliminate any need of calorie counting as a blanket statement makes very little sense.

You learn through time and effort how much calories you're consuming within a margin. Not because you all of a sudden cut grains and diary.

PROS:

It can work well and quickly for weight loss
No need for the hassle of calorie counting
Can help regularise cravings
Can help with digestive discomfort

CONS:

Restrictive food choice
Lack of cake
Can be expensive
Can be hard to implement into day to day life
Did I mention lack of cake?

Does not compute.

Good lord. Another one.

You need a calorie deficit but you don't need to actually count calories on a conscious level to achieve that.

Unconscious competence as an end goal? Anyone? No?

I'm taking my ball and going home.

IMO, if you take some who has been obese for their entire life, and told them to go onto a Paleo diet, calorie counting will still be needed on average. For those that are calorie conscious from previously counting and are educated, I would think that they would have at least a decent idea how many calories they're consuming. Those that have done it for a while, probably won't need it. But saying that simply going on Paleo will eliminate any need of calorie counting as a blanket statement makes very little sense.

You learn through time and effort how much calories you're consuming within a margin. Not because you all of a sudden cut grains and diary.

Point taken but I think half the attraction of things like Paleo / Atkins / Generic Diet is the fact that they usually (although admittedly not always) allow a person to achieve a calorie deficit in a way that is easier for the individual than counting calories or weighing their food etc (although they may not be marketed that way primarily.) Many people find calorie counting tedious I imagine. It essentially provides a template which you can tweak to cater to your preferences if used sensibly.

I also think that an obese person has less to worry about in this regard than a lean person as they have a larger workable calorie deficit and therefore a greater margin for error when it comes to consumption.

Any diet that has a name is silly.

So, say there is a way of eating that masses of people follow for generations. It's healthy and sustainable. Then, someone comes along and gives this way of eating a name, say for example, the Mediterranean Diet. Now this time proven healthy diet is suddenly silly? I don't see the logic there.

But there is no such thing as the "Mediterranean Diet" in real life. It only exists as a marketing concept in books and diet programs.

Hell, there are at least three distinct "Italian Diets" alone, never mind all the other ethnic groups ringing the Med.

Exactly. The "Mediterranean Diet" just doesn't exist as a natural thing anywhere. It's a fad diet.

IIFYM is not a diet. It's a general nutrient intake strategy. Just like "counting calories" is not a diet with "good" and "bad" foods. IIFYM is literally "make sure you consume nutrients in the quantities supported by science."

definition of Diet - the kinds of food that a person, animal, or community habitually eats.

Whenever someone discusses their "diet", this is the definition I assume because it is the definition I think about my own diet. Yes, IIFYM is a diet.

To be pedantic: IIFYM is a plan or philosophy around which your diet is based.

Well, not my diet, but yes.

I like pedantic.

So...South Beach is a plan or a philosophy around which my diet is based. Got it.

No because it prescribes certain foods and prohibits others.

Or maybe better said a lot of foods blow my macros out of the water in a hot minute.

One reasonably healthy typical Subway sandwich can be a half a day's calories.

IIFYM works for everyone. You seem to be under the impression that IIFYM encourages people to eat pizza or something. It doesn't.

Eat whatever you like, as long as it fits your macros. Obviously things like preference, caloric density, satiety, etc will play a part in whatever foods you decide to eat.

To me, part of a diet plan that "works" is sustainability.

And I've tried IIFYM, and if I just eat what fits in my macros, I included bread/sugar, which results in insane cravings all the time. I managed to get all my weight off (and then lasted approximately 30 seconds at my goal weight), because I was utterly miserable.

The point is - if you can do IIFYM and it's easy to hit your goals, you don't have health issues that you need to address like cholesterol or blood sugar levels, etc., and you feel healthy and happy doing it? Go for it. But I know I can't. When I did, I had a ton of joint pain, was miserable to be around because I felt like I was starving to death constantly (even though I eat the same total calories now and am full...), and it took a massive force of willpower to keep it up, which wasn't sustainable long-term. Switching to Whole30/Paleo made it easy, got rid of my joint pain, makes my skin look better... and I've lost weight.

And if I'm eating normally on my W30/Paleo diet (not like bags of nuts or something), I don't need to count calories because it almost always adds up by just eating until I'm full at meals - I can just log it at the end of the day and it's usually right where I want it (I'm finding I don't need to, but I like to log because I'm a nerd that likes the data on what I've been doing...). When I was doing IIFYM, I was rationing out every little thing I ate and craving more all day long.

...

Or maybe better said a lot of foods blow my macros out of the water in a hot minute.

One reasonably healthy typical Subway sandwich can be a half a day's calories.

IIFYM works for everyone. You seem to be under the impression that IIFYM encourages people to eat pizza or something. It doesn't.

Eat whatever you like, as long as it fits your macros. Obviously things like preference, caloric density, satiety, etc will play a part in whatever foods you decide to eat.

To me, part of a diet plan that "works" is sustainability.

And I've tried IIFYM, and if I just eat what fits in my macros, I included bread/sugar, which results in insane cravings all the time. I managed to get all my weight off (and then lasted approximately 30 seconds at my goal weight), because I was utterly miserable.

The point is - if you can do IIFYM and it's easy to hit your goals, you don't have health issues that you need to address like cholesterol or blood sugar levels, etc., and you feel healthy and happy doing it? Go for it. But I know I can't. When I did, I had a ton of joint pain, was miserable to be around because I felt like I was starving to death constantly (even though I eat the same total calories now and am full...), and it took a massive force of willpower to keep it up, which wasn't sustainable long-term. Switching to Whole30/Paleo made it easy, got rid of my joint pain, makes my skin look better... and I've lost weight.

And if I'm eating normally on my W30/Paleo diet (not like bags of nuts or something), I don't need to count calories because it almost always adds up by just eating until I'm full at meals - I can just log it at the end of the day and it's usually right where I want it. When I was doing IIFYM, I was rationing out every little thing I ate and craving more all day long.

You don't understand IIFYM either. It's not that complicated. It doesn't compete with what you're doing. If certain foods trigger cravings or don't satisfy then don't eat them.

Sweet. So Paleo=IIFYM.

End of discussion.

No. Paleo is compatible with IIFYM. Atkins is compatible with IIFYM. Etc.

IIFYM doesn't compete with any diet because it's not a diet.

Any diet that has a name is silly.

So, say there is a way of eating that masses of people follow for generations. It's healthy and sustainable. Then, someone comes along and gives this way of eating a name, say for example, the Mediterranean Diet. Now this time proven healthy diet is suddenly silly? I don't see the logic there.

But there is no such thing as the "Mediterranean Diet" in real life. It only exists as a marketing concept in books and diet programs.

Hell, there are at least three distinct "Italian Diets" alone, never mind all the other ethnic groups ringing the Med.

Exactly. The "Mediterranean Diet" just doesn't exist as a natural thing anywhere. It's a fad diet.

IIFYM is not a diet. It's a general nutrient intake strategy. Just like "counting calories" is not a diet with "good" and "bad" foods. IIFYM is literally "make sure you consume nutrients in the quantities supported by science."

definition of Diet - the kinds of food that a person, animal, or community habitually eats.

Whenever someone discusses their "diet", this is the definition I assume because it is the definition I think about my own diet. Yes, IIFYM is a diet.

To be pedantic: IIFYM is a plan or philosophy around which your diet is based.

Well, not my diet, but yes.

I like pedantic.

So...South Beach is a plan or a philosophy around which my diet is based. Got it.

No because it prescribes certain foods and prohibits others.

SB doesn't prescribe a single food, actually. And it makes suggestions about others. It's a philosophy around which to design your eating. iffym suggests (prescribes?) macro levels and requires counting macros and counting calories. meh. same diff. In 5 years this message board will be full of iffym haters, and a few folks saying it works for me.... it all goes round.

PROS:

It can work well and quickly for weight loss
No need for the hassle of calorie counting
Can help regularise cravings
Can help with digestive discomfort

CONS:

Restrictive food choice
Lack of cake
Can be expensive
Can be hard to implement into day to day life
Did I mention lack of cake?

Does not compute.

Good lord. Another one.

You need a calorie deficit but you don't need to actually count calories on a conscious level to achieve that.

Unconscious competence as an end goal? Anyone? No?

I'm taking my ball and going home.

Good plan, until you discover some new delicious food that, egad, actually is like 800 calories a serving, but you never bothered to even look at the nutritional info because " it's paleo, it's natural, it's gotta be healthy." I'm sorry, there is nothing magical about your weight. If you want to reliably maintain, you NEED to count. Full stop.

Any diet that has a name is silly.

So, say there is a way of eating that masses of people follow for generations. It's healthy and sustainable. Then, someone comes along and gives this way of eating a name, say for example, the Mediterranean Diet. Now this time proven healthy diet is suddenly silly? I don't see the logic there.

But there is no such thing as the "Mediterranean Diet" in real life. It only exists as a marketing concept in books and diet programs.

Hell, there are at least three distinct "Italian Diets" alone, never mind all the other ethnic groups ringing the Med.

Exactly. The "Mediterranean Diet" just doesn't exist as a natural thing anywhere. It's a fad diet.

IIFYM is not a diet. It's a general nutrient intake strategy. Just like "counting calories" is not a diet with "good" and "bad" foods. IIFYM is literally "make sure you consume nutrients in the quantities supported by science."

definition of Diet - the kinds of food that a person, animal, or community habitually eats.

Whenever someone discusses their "diet", this is the definition I assume because it is the definition I think about my own diet. Yes, IIFYM is a diet.

To be pedantic: IIFYM is a plan or philosophy around which your diet is based.

Well, not my diet, but yes.

I like pedantic.

So...South Beach is a plan or a philosophy around which my diet is based. Got it.

No because it prescribes certain foods and prohibits others.

SB doesn't prescribe a single food, actually. And it makes suggestions about others. It's a philosophy around which to design your eating. iffym suggests (prescribes?) macro levels and requires counting macros and counting calories. meh. same diff. In 5 years this message board will be full of iffym haters, and a few folks saying it works for me.... it all goes round.

600 calories of toast for breakfast is just fine under SB?

Pros: It includes a lot of delicious food that I enjoy

Cons: It excludes a lot of delicious food that I enjoy

:laugh: :drinker:

i havent done it and not interested in trying it but i know a girl who did and she lost inches but had to stop because she was having a lot of tummy issues.