Discourage and inform or just nod and agree?

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  • jimmmer
    jimmmer Posts: 3,515 Member
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    Show me a person who never made a mistake and I'll show you a person who never learned anything worthwhile.

    This is not to say that everyone learns from every mistake they make. In fact, a lot of people keep making an *kitten* of things and still never get where they need to go. The people who do get to where they need to go make an *kitten* of things and springboard off of it.
  • meerkat70
    meerkat70 Posts: 4,616 Member
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    why is the default position on this forum of late that fat =stupid? (or its ugly sister, fat=lazy).

    op maybe dont start from the rather arrogant presumption you need to educate others?

    i have four degrees. i worked out pretty early on that putting too much food in my body produced the fat cells. i was fat, not thick.

    focus on your own path. chances are the average fat person does have a reasonable understanding of their weight issues, and does not need it explaining to them.
  • Cheeky_and_Geeky
    Cheeky_and_Geeky Posts: 984 Member
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    I don't tell them anything.

    They are doing something more than laying around doing nothing. If they stick with being more active, they will discover likes and dislikes, become more informed, have changing tastes in the training world as time goes by. Who's not to say they will end up where they need to be and that they needed to experience everything along the way?

    Without the freedom to make mistakes and explore different ways to do things, then there are no opportunities to learn. It's more valuable if people come to things under their own steam and in their own time and become their own people. Rather than becoming the people you think they should be.

    ^This
  • Mr_Knight
    Mr_Knight Posts: 9,532 Member
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    What do you tell overweight people who just want to do some cardio and lift weights and have no intention of cleaning up their diet.

    "Good luck", and move on to the next topic.
  • ril0riley
    ril0riley Posts: 54 Member
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    Strongly encourage!
    For me it was all about adding one habit at a time. Encourage them to stick with it at every step of the way. If they eventually threaten to quit due to lack of progress, tell them to keep going, and maybe try a simple diet change like cutting soda.
    Inch by inch!
  • Penfoldsplace
    Penfoldsplace Posts: 159
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    Exercise is never a waste of time. I have bigger friends who are very fit, and smaller friends who barely leave the sofa, smoke 30 a day and get out of breath walking the stairs. I would rather be fit. If they come to you the future and complain they are not losing then give advice about diet. Sometimes small changes do make a difference, especially when you have a lot to lose.
  • DymonNdaRgh40
    DymonNdaRgh40 Posts: 661 Member
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    What do you tell overweight people who just want to do some cardio and lift weights and have no intention of cleaning up their diet.

    "Good luck", and move on to the next topic.

    I like you.
  • astronomicals
    astronomicals Posts: 1,537 Member
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    why is the default position on this forum of late that fat =stupid? (or its ugly sister, fat=lazy).

    op maybe dont start from the rather arrogant presumption you need to educate others?

    i have four degrees. i worked out pretty early on that putting too much food in my body produced the fat cells. i was fat, not thick.

    focus on your own path. chances are the average fat person does have a reasonable understanding of their weight issues, and does not need it explaining to them.

    Explain how I'm arrogant and why you presume that I think overweight people are stupid?

    " if anything has surprised me so far in my work, it's the complete disassociation between IQ and "exercise intelligence" (essentially common sense and knowledge in regards to training fundamentals). I have many clients from academic circles, many clients that are very successful financially and in their each respective field, but some were complete idiots with regards to their training "

    --Martin Berkhan
  • Rayman79
    Rayman79 Posts: 2,009 Member
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    I think most of us who have been at this a while have had situations like this. My usual response is to be happy that they are getting to the gym or making some progress.

    Usually a quick line like the following does the trick for me - it applies no pressure but offers support:

    'Good on you! I'm sure you'll feel better for getting out there and being more active. Hey, if you ever want to hit me up for some advice on your training or diet stuff, just let me know - I'm happy to help out'.

    You'd be surprised how many people have started... then have acquired a taste for feeling a bit stronger/healthier and have come back to ask how they should tighten up their diet or tweak their training program!

    The key thing is it needs to be their decision.
  • yogapantsandsmiles
    yogapantsandsmiles Posts: 24 Member
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    I almost think that it would help to encourage them to continue working out. BECAUSE when they start working out, they might be encouraged to eat better. Obviously it's not going to make the change they want in their life, to eat poorly and work out, but it's a step in the right direction. And why discourage them when they are willing to start trying?
  • jwdieter
    jwdieter Posts: 2,582 Member
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    Explain how I'm arrogant and why you presume that I think overweight people are stupid?

    Your OP comes off pretty poorly. Like you're advocating lecturing random overweight people in the gym. That would be weird and rude, and I don't think you meant it that way.

    Anyway, I don't talk to people about their diet or fitness unless they ask me specifically. I'd love to help and inform the hundreds of people I see every day who probably would like to look and feel better, but that's just not a socially acceptable approach.
  • FixIngMe13
    FixIngMe13 Posts: 405 Member
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    IMHO if said overweight person is not willing to help themselves initially, no manner of telling, teaching, or explaining will help them. Ever.

    I have many overweight friends (I was once too) and I usually drop a line similar to "if you need some help, just ask" and wait for them.

    those that are serious about cutting down and getting healthy will come to the party, and those that just want to give it another half hearted shot, you see drinking litre milks and scoffing burgers after their "workout"

    tough love is an option at times, but i know more stubborn overweight people, than ones that are willing to help themselves

    ^^ This
  • ImRemko
    ImRemko Posts: 34 Member
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    Let me start out by saying that I will never give anyone advice that doesn't approach me. Personally anyone can bother me and give me pointers or ask anything about my training, but I'm well aware a lot of egos don't allow discussions.

    I'll give a full lecture to whoever requests the slightest bit of information. Even during a workout. Now whether they do something with the information, that's up to them.
    If someone starts talking about their weight loss ideas, for me that's a hint that they actually want to talk about it, so I give some information. Whoever is offended by that or doesn't want to listen can f*** right off.
  • astronomicals
    astronomicals Posts: 1,537 Member
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    Your OP comes off pretty poorly. Like you're advocating lecturing random overweight people in the gym.

    judging by responses I'd say you're right....

    I dont approach anyone. If I'm engaged I give an honest opinion. When I'm in the gym I do my stuff and leave. I've never helped anyone with their form, ever. Ten words or less between entry and exit is a good session. Zero being optimal.
  • meerkat70
    meerkat70 Posts: 4,616 Member
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    why is the default position on this forum of late that fat =stupid? (or its ugly sister, fat=lazy).

    op maybe dont start from the rather arrogant presumption you need to educate others?

    i have four degrees. i worked out pretty early on that putting too much food in my body produced the fat cells. i was fat, not thick.

    focus on your own path. chances are the average fat person does have a reasonable understanding of their weight issues, and does not need it explaining to them.

    Explain how I'm arrogant and why you presume that I think overweight people are stupid?

    " if anything has surprised me so far in my work, it's the complete disassociation between IQ and "exercise intelligence" (essentially common sense and knowledge in regards to training fundamentals). I have many clients from academic circles, many clients that are very successful financially and in their each respective field, but some were complete idiots with regards to their training "

    --Martin Berkhan

    how is your original post saying anything else?


    "wow. this fat dude thinks he can lose weight without paying attention to diet. what an idiot! he requires my wisdom. i shall henceforth educate fat people about the really obvious thing they are clearly too stupid to know...."

    but yeah you're likely right and it's just me reading arrogance and presumption into what was actually a really empathic, thoughtful post.

    my apologies.
  • Carfoodel
    Carfoodel Posts: 481 Member
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    I have quite a few people at my workplace that saw and heard how enthusiastic I was after doing the Tough Mudder - to the point where lots of people are now going to do a 5k obstacle race in May when they have never done anything like it - they are all approaching it different ways but nearly all are exercise focused. - so I do get a lot of fitness related questions asked of me quite often.

    workmates and friends are joining gyms, doing c25 programmes and coming hill walking with me - I haven't told anyone to do that, I haven't pressured them into it and they are all taking different approaches. I wouldn't dream of telling them how to train, I think the most I have volunteered are the best kind of trainers for the event or the different running programmes out there - but made it plain it is only my opinion. I just post that I am doing such and such a hill climb and if they want to come along...or I will post documents to sites on different training approaches so that they can pick their way through the minefield. I will absolutely put my hand up and say that I am immensely proud of the fact that dozens of people are trying so many things that they haven't done before and my enthusiasm was the spark for that.

    The thing is that now people are asking about the food side of things - as I said before, only if asked - I wouldn't dream of telling someone how they should eat - it comes in its own time. I don't think I came across as being a know it all that has the right to tell people how they should choose to be healthier either on here or at my workplace etc - the idea of being like that is a awful - no one likes a self appointed expert - but it is difficult to be neutral when I do get asked quite often (probably due to the facegroup groups I have set up etc having a ripple effect with more people joining).

    so discourage and inform or just nod and agree? - encourage and only venture opinion if expressly asked and even then with disclaimers.
  • carolina822
    carolina822 Posts: 155 Member
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    Apparently the idea of diet change is much more overwhelming than the thought of doing some cardio. I should know this. Comparison of calories burned running and calories in a hamburger can be a pretty humbling thing. And by humbling I mean depressing...

    Of course it's more overwhelming. You have to make the choice to not eat the cheeseburger all day long. You only have to make the choice to go running once a day, a few times a week.

    That said, if he honestly doesn't know that a 30 minute run doesn't cancel out a whole cheesecake's worth of calories (which I doubt), it's helpful of you to point that out. But don't discourage him from exercise - I know for me, the better I'm doing on the fitness front, the better I want to eat so as not to "waste" all of that effort. And even for those who use workouts as an excuse to reward themselves with junk food, they're still benefiting from being more active.

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