BMI LIES! THE "STANDARD CONSPIRACY" okay
Romaena
Posts: 9
Hi everyone, I hope to inspire some poor soul whose doctor or other health professional has burdened them with the dreaded deceitful BMI index. My story... I always weighed heavy. Always. Last year I was extremely ill. I was a size 4 at 134 lbs and looked so emaciated, it was ridiculous. Then, I did a stupid thing, I started drinking malt liquor and put on approximately 50 lbs+. I began working out heavily and cutting uber calories about two months ago without losing ONE FREAKING POUND. It was discouraging to say the least. But, I lost inches... I have a sciences baccalaureate in human sciences, and I knew about muscle density, but that darned scale just psychologically screwed me up. My BMI says I have a whopping 46% body fat! Well, I finally decided to go and get three separate body fat determinations at the university lab, and guess what? I'm a 'muscleley' little freak, (underneath my layer of fat!) compared to the stupid BMI chart, at a HUGE difference of actual 33.3% body fat. This finally confirmed what I always knew about myself, but never had the courage to reveal: my genetic makeup is what it is, and AT MY LOWEST bodyweight last year, I was sporting a sickening 5% or less body fat percentage. (no wonder I had amennhorea for six months). However, because of the number on the scale, I wouldn't tell anyone what I weighed. According to the three tests I received, my lean body mass today is 131 lbs, and I should ALWAYS maintain an extra 16 lbs of fat in addition to that. In short? I'm a 5'3" woman who should weigh 147 lbs to look and feel her best. Last time I weighed around 150 lbs I wore a size 6-8 (American sizes), so that finally sounds about right. Sounds crazy, right? It's not. Please realize each of us has our own unique body composition and letting some ridiculous standardised methodology discourage us is letting that pigeonhole industry defeat us.
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You are pretty clearly confused about what BMI means and what body fat percentage means. BMI is just a ratio of your height and weight. It does not differentiate between muscle, fat, bone, fluid or other. Body fat percentage describes how much of your body is composed of fat. It has nothing to do with your height or weight. Two people can have an identical body fat percentage but wildly different heights and weights.
I don't really know what else to say, other than you're really confused. Try again, maybe?0 -
I'm 5'1" and my lean body mass is around 105-109lb (depending which measure of body fat percentage I base it on). I weigh 140lb and my body fat percentage is currently 23-25%. I have really wide shoulders and a huge rib cage, and my rib cage seems to be outside the normal range for women of any height, never mind what's expected for my height. My bra size is 40AA and almost no-one makes that size, because most people with that strap size have a smaller rib cage and more body fat than me, hence larger cups (or maybe they're just more gifted in terms of actual boob tissue than me lol). I also have a really high lung capacity for my height, as in way over the top of the chart, as in not even close to any of the centile lines kind of outlier. that pretty much directly correlates with rib cage size.
I feel a lot stronger at 140lb than I did at 130lb, and at 125lb I was losing lean mass and strength, as in the number of push-ups etc I could do was going down, how long I could do planks for, and how much I could lift was all going down. I stopped trying to lose fat at 125lb and gained 5lb and saw a huge increase in how much energy I had and I also my strength increased by a lot. Since then I did a bulk (i.e. lifting heavy + eating at a surplus) and gained 10lb, and a lot more strength with it. The "healthy" BMI range for my height is 100-132... well my lean body mass is in that range. According to body fat percentage calculations, I can weigh less than 125lb and still be healthy if I get to a really low body fat percentage (I'd have to be very careful not to lose lean mass), but I don't like the changes in my body that low, in particular the loss of boobs and I don't want to have any loss in strength (I care a lot more about that than aesthetics), so I'm keeping my body fat percentage above 22%.
Also back when I used to play ice hockey, I always felt strongest around 10st (140lb), less than that I lost strength and more than that was just gaining weight without any increase in strength/performance. This seems to be my ideal weight, although if I can gain more lean mass and keep my body fat percentage between 22 and 25% and weigh more and be even stronger then I'll be happy with that
BMI is based on averages, and not everyone is average.
btw I have a BSc in human sciences.... yay for human sciences graduates:drinker:0 -
You are pretty clearly confused about what BMI means and what body fat percentage means. BMI is just a ratio of your height and weight. It does not differentiate between muscle, fat, bone, fluid or other. Body fat percentage describes how much of your body is composed of fat. It has nothing to do with your height or weight. Two people can have an identical body fat percentage but wildly different heights and weights.
I don't really know what else to say, other than you're really confused. Try again, maybe?
There are BMI charts/calculators that give you an estimate for body fat percentage. but they're useless, and probably why they're not used that much. But they do exist, and they give greatly inflated bf% estimates for large framed and/or athletic people, and greatly underestimated bf% for small framed people.
All of the rest of what you said the OP not only seems to agree with, she's presenting herself as an example of someone who's got a high lean body mass for her height, and that the BMI body fat % estimates are totally wrong for her. So I don't think she's confused. I think you agree with her.0 -
No woman could survive at 5% bodyfat, sorry. Essential fat is 10-13%. You might have put on some muscle when you put on 50lbs.0
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I am not confused whatsoever, my wording might have been off. I'm not perfect. Body mass index is, according to my own anatomy and physiology textbooks, and my biochemistry textbooks, used as an adiposity estimate. Based on my bmi, I supposedly have 46% body fat. Anyway, the point of the post was that it was boocaca, and I wanted to say so... My bad.0
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You are pretty clearly confused about what BMI means and what body fat percentage means. BMI is just a ratio of your height and weight. It does not differentiate between muscle, fat, bone, fluid or other. Body fat percentage describes how much of your body is composed of fat. It has nothing to do with your height or weight. Two people can have an identical body fat percentage but wildly different heights and weights.
I don't really know what else to say, other than you're really confused. Try again, maybe?
There are BMI charts/calculators that give you an estimate for body fat percentage. but they're useless, and probably why they're not used that much. But they do exist, and they give greatly inflated bf% estimates for large framed and/or athletic people, and greatly underestimated bf% for small framed people.
All of the rest of what you said the OP not only seems to agree with, she's presenting herself as an example of someone who's got a high lean body mass for her height, and that the BMI body fat % estimates are totally wrong for her. So I don't think she's confused. I think you agree with her.
Thank you, that was the whole jist of my post... Lol!0 -
No woman could survive at 5% bodyfat, sorry. Essential fat is 10-13%. You might have put on some muscle when you put on 50lbs.
Again, I was only pointing out that according to THE STANDARDIZED modality, either way, high adiposity or low, that the fact that in one year, according to ITS measure, I supposedly went from 5 to almost 50 percent (all the models estimates, mind you!) body fat!
I see I shall have to quit being sarcastic, and/or nuanced.... Gosh you guys are too serious for me! Lol!0 -
really not sure.0 -
BMI is a very blunt measuring tool. I wouldn't trust it. Really, you know how good you feel. I've been losing fat slowly and steadily, since adding a new supplement. Great stuff.0
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I um... well, let's just say I am in0
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BMI is now actually pretty widely accepted to be more an indicator of obesity in large groups of people as opposed to individuals.
Some doctors will still tell an overweight or obese person their BMI because if you are obviously overweight or obese your BMI is still a fairly relevant ballpark figure. In these cases it can be am indicator of body fat, but not a measurement.
You won't hear doctors or health professionals bothering a body builder about their BMI even if it is outside the normal range, because in those cases the source of the persons weight is obvious.
What I'm trying to say, I suppose is that yeah- BMI is not the best indicator of a healthy weight, and it can be inaccurate if misused. But it isn't some evil tool that healthcare professionals are using to hurt or scare people.0 -
Oh it is so good to hear someone else who knows that you can have a high BMI without being seriously overweight
I am 52 now and obese I know I have lost a lot of muscle in the last 10-20 years due to depression which started after the birth of my first baby, I was told in no uncertain terms that my BMI proved I was hugely overweight and that I would most likely never lose it due to health issues resulting from the birth. At this time I I weighed 150 pounds and was 5'4'' but prior to the pregnancy I had a very high muscle weight /low-normal body fat ratio. Basically it made me give up, I sat down and ate all the things I loved and blamed the operations and health problems, I stopped swimming and playing tennis and walking, and inevitably I put on fat.
My point is if the health proffessional had bothered to think before they spoke all those years ago she would have realised I wasn't carrying too much fat and having just had a difficult birth might be prone to post-natal depression. BMI is not the b-all and end-all if someone tells you your BMI is too high check your fat percentage another way before taking any action.0 -
Truth some body builders have an index of 44+ so.. by bmi standard its obese..BMI is now actually pretty widely accepted to be more an indicator of obesity in large groups of people as opposed to individuals.
Some doctors will still tell an overweight or obese person their BMI because if you are obviously overweight or obese your BMI is still a fairly relevant ballpark figure. In these cases it can be am indicator of body fat, but not a measurement.
You won't hear doctors or health professionals bothering a body builder about their BMI even if it is outside the normal range, because in those cases the source of the persons weight is obvious.
What I'm trying to say, I suppose is that yeah- BMI is not the best indicator of a healthy weight, and it can be inaccurate if misused. But it isn't some evil tool that healthcare professionals are using to hurt or scare people.
any ppl exercising above the norm will not fit into that standard because of muscle mass.
BMI works for couch potatoes thats about it0 -
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Maybe someone should tell my Doctor this, he weighs you then looks up the BMI then if you are overweight or obese he tells you to lose weight your BMI is too high, he does not care if it is cos you have muscle or not he says the numbers tell the truth so lose the weight !!! This is why I stopped seeing him!!!0
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The majority of people who rant about how inaccurate BMI is are just in denial and cant except that they are fat. So of course the figures are wrong. BMI is not perfect and shouldn't be used in isolation but as a 'guide' using population averages it can be useful as many other figures can be as well0
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OP, do you have pictures?0
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This is not the first time I have heard the BMI scale is far from perfect. It was hailed as the golden measurement when it was first introduced, I am old enough to remember when it became the be all and end all of weight. BMI fails the tall as well as the short. It goes to show we are all individuals.
But this not the only conspiracy. For years the insurance company figures have been used to tell the populations their ideal weights. These weights were decreased further, to be lighter than they were some years ago apx mid 80's may be. Also from within the insurance company figures it has been shown that people who are a little higher in weight are actually healthier than those desperately trying to achieve the unattainable, unhealthy weights feeding the diet industry.
My personal gripe concerning the diet industry. Much of the low fat prepared meals are full of maize starch, also known as cornflour and has many other names. This flour has the ability to replace fat with a starch. One particular mayonnaise manufacturer would have you believe their low fat version is better for you than the full fat. For anyone like me who is salicylate sensitive both are equally deadly. Olive oil is very high in salicylate, maize starch is moderate but as it infiltrates many diet and main stream produced foods it can be having a direct influence on the obesity epidemic which is overtaking the worlds affluent populations since the 1950s when a political decision was taken to reduce the price of food, which was a reasonable thing to do then. But not to realise the corresponding rise in the use of maize and the increase in waistlines and the decline in general health is unspeakable neglegence.
Naturally this is a very simplistic view because Salicylate is not only in these two foods it is in most of the "must eat foods" principally in the skins of fruit and vegetables, it is the protection mechanism used by most plants to reduce their susceptibility to moulds and mildews. Many people know the better they eat the worse they feel. I have my health back to a greater extent, there were days when I was in so much pain and so miserable I was barely able to get out of bed. I lost many working years and now by avoiding dietary and environmental salicylate I have a happy life.
I agree with exploding the unattainable myths and deceits0 -
The majority of people who rant about how inaccurate BMI is are just in denial and cant except that they are fat. So of course the figures are wrong. BMI is not perfect and shouldn't be used in isolation but as a 'guide' using population averages it can be useful as many other figures can be as well
really? you've met them all and measured their body composition?
The reason why I rant about BMI being inaccurate is because an idiot judo coach with a BMI chart nearly caused me to get an eating disorder when I was 17. Based on BMI and nothing but BMI, he told me to lose 10kg (22lb) to fight in 2 weight categories below the one I was already starving and dehydrating myself to make. I had visible upper abs at the time, which is indicative of a body fat percentage in the low end of the healthy range. I should have been told to get in the gym, lift some weights and get stronger and fight in the next weight category up. And I should have told him to stick his BMI chart up his *kitten*, but I was only 17 and didn't know that BMI was based on averages and is a tool for measuring obesity at a population level, and wasn't designed to diagnose it in individuals.
Given that I've owned this same body all my life, and I've been extremely fit and lean at some times and obese at other times, I know how my body is. When I was obese I wasn't in denial about it, I worked hard to get my body fat percentage back into the healthy range. I know my body well enough to know if I'm carrying too much body fat or not. And my body fat percentage is in the healthy range (measured 3 different ways plus visual estimates for further verification). My BMI is not, because I have a high lean body mass for my height, which is from a combination of genetics (large frame/gaining muscle relatively easily) and being athletic.
The problem with being an outlier, is that you're an outlier for your whole entire life and so people spend a lifetime of enduring this kind of crap, and this constant suspicion "oh you're not really an outlier you're in denial" kind of attitude... it really gets tiresome. And (in my experience) it usually comes from people who actually have worse body composition than you do, who just want to make themselves feel better about being sedentary and not very athletic. (though I'm sure not in every case, that's just my personal experience)
Yes there probably are some people who kid themselves (not that I've actually met any), but you don't know each person individually who says this about BMI. In my experience, the most vocal people who say this about BMI are strong, fit, athletic people who have "overweight" or "obese" BMIs and know what their body fat percentage is, and that it's in the healthy range, and in many cases in the low end of the healthy range.... ....unlike most of the population who just go by BMI and have no idea what their body fat percentage is.... which isn't good because there are a huge number of people, (i.e. sedentary people with poor diets), who have a "healthy" BMI but their body fat percentage is too high, and they're also at risk of obesity related illness because it's a high body fat percentage that puts your health at risk, not how heavy you are. But no-one ever talks about them..... they just talk about "overweight" people being "in denial"....0 -
Lol to this thread. OP where did the 46% come from? Was your BMI 46? Cuz that's not a body fat percentage, that's your BMI. Two totally different things. You'd ideally want to look at your BMI, waist to hip ratio, and measured body fat % (actually measured, not from an online calculator) to determine if you're at a healthy weight. They're all just guides to give you an idea of any health risks you may have.0
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Lol to this thread. OP where did the 46% come from? Was your BMI 46? Cuz that's not a body fat percentage, that's your BMI. Two totally different things. You'd ideally want to look at your BMI, waist to hip ratio, and measured body fat % (actually measured, not from an online calculator) to determine if you're at a healthy weight. They're all just guides to give you an idea of any health risks you may have.
There are charts, calculators and conversion tables that give a body fat percentage estimate from BMI. It's quite possibly the worst way to get it estimated, because it only works on totally average people. But that's what she's referring to. As to the rest of your post, she knows that. Her post was an attempt to tell other people the same thing. Her mistake was that she didn't seem to realise that most people are not familiar with that kind of conversion table. Also, she didn't communicate what she was saying clearly.0 -
this is far too much
over the fact that BMI doesn't work for all body types.
go see a dietitian if you want proper body composition analysis.
try to be happy. its worth a try.0 -
Lol to this thread. OP where did the 46% come from? Was your BMI 46? Cuz that's not a body fat percentage, that's your BMI. Two totally different things. You'd ideally want to look at your BMI, waist to hip ratio, and measured body fat % (actually measured, not from an online calculator) to determine if you're at a healthy weight. They're all just guides to give you an idea of any health risks you may have.
There are charts, calculators and conversion tables that give a body fat percentage estimate from BMI. It's quite possibly the worst way to get it estimated, because it only works on totally average people. But that's what she's referring to. As to the rest of your post, she knows that. Her post was an attempt to tell other people the same thing. Her mistake was that she didn't seem to realise that most people are not familiar with that kind of conversion table. Also, she didn't communicate what she was saying clearly.
Are you sure? It sounds to me like she thought her BMI number was her body fat percentage.
If she did in fact use these calculators you're talking about, then really her gripe should be with those calculators, not the BMI measurement itself. Also dietitians and doctors (at least the ones I've met) don't use BMI to figure body fat percentage. I've honestly never heard of that until this thread so I'm not surprised it's inaccurate.0 -
Lol to this thread. OP where did the 46% come from? Was your BMI 46? Cuz that's not a body fat percentage, that's your BMI. Two totally different things. You'd ideally want to look at your BMI, waist to hip ratio, and measured body fat % (actually measured, not from an online calculator) to determine if you're at a healthy weight. They're all just guides to give you an idea of any health risks you may have.
There are charts, calculators and conversion tables that give a body fat percentage estimate from BMI. It's quite possibly the worst way to get it estimated, because it only works on totally average people. But that's what she's referring to. As to the rest of your post, she knows that. Her post was an attempt to tell other people the same thing. Her mistake was that she didn't seem to realise that most people are not familiar with that kind of conversion table. Also, she didn't communicate what she was saying clearly.
Are you sure? It sounds to me like she thought her BMI number was her body fat percentage.
If she did in fact use these calculators you're talking about, then really her gripe should be with those calculators, not the BMI measurement itself. Also dietitians and doctors (at least the ones I've met) don't use BMI to figure body fat percentage. I've honestly never heard of that until this thread so I'm not surprised it's inaccurate.
yeah you're probably right.... but my gripe is with BMI itself as I nearly got an eating disorder because of it (see my earlier post re idiot judo coach). It's well known among scientists and most doctors that it's not appropriate for everyone, but I didn't know that when I was 17. I think the message that it doesn't work for everyone does need to be out there, along with information about how to get your body fat percentage measured reasonably accurately. Even if BMI is not used to actually calculate body fat percentages, the ranges and cut-off weights between categories are based on an assumption of body fat percentage. And not everyone who's an outlier knows that they are. There are a lot of people out there, mostly women, who are striving to be a particular number on a scale, rather than trying to have a healthy body composition. And they're not all going to be small or average framed women who are doing that. So the whole message of don't focus so much on the scale, BMI doesn't work for everyone and go by body fat percentage instead, does need to be out there a lot more, IMO.0 -
While BMI is for populations and not specifically for individuals I believe it can still be a valid tool. While there are outliers, it's a small percentage of the whole. It seems a doctor would know their patient. Back in the day the military used BMI as a measure and would grant an exception for "outliers". Never met an exception. (not to say they didn't exist, they just aren't that common.)
Using BMI to self-measure obesity is like using WebMD to self-diagnose cancer, it's just silly.0 -
As I tried to explain, proponents of the bmi use a formula to calculate adiposity...
It is: Adult Body Fat % = (1.20 x BMI) + (0.23 x Age) - (10.8 x gender) - 5.4.
According to this, my bf percentage is 46 percent.
My actual body fat percentage is 33.3% (give or take a couple of points), even so, that's a HUUUUUGE discrepancy.
That was the point I was trying to make in the OP...0 -
As I tried to explain, proponents of the bmi use a formula to calculate adiposity...
It is: Adult Body Fat % = (1.20 x BMI) + (0.23 x Age) - (10.8 x gender) - 5.4.
According to this, my bf percentage is 46 percent.
My actual body fat percentage is 33.3% (give or take a couple of points), even so, that's a HUUUUUGE discrepancy.
That was the point I was trying to make in the OP...
well, your point was lost in a massive tirade. most people know that BMI is inaccurate, and who uses BMI for BF%?
the answer is no one who has spent 5 minutes reading about measuring body fat on the internet.0
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