TDEE cardio days v strength days ????

I have been aggravating myself trying to figure out the TDEE thing when you include strength training. I love running and that kind of exercise so my big cardio burns are not going anywhere. I already do some strength work and am pleased with the results, well except that of the muscle tone of my butt, however I doubt I even can get better results there.

I know I won't get giant like a man, but I have always strength trained to some degree, never being afraid of the weight room, but I can say that it doesn't take much for me to feel like I am losing the small degree of feminine shape I have.

* I want to know how the strength training will affect my TDEE.
* I want to know how my TDEE responds on days where I focus more on strength than on cardio.
* I want to know if doing things like plyometric squats, where you squat low and jump at the top, count as strength.
* I want to know why if I do at least one of the following each day and my *kitten* is still flat: plyo squats, plyo lunges, weighted squats (admittedly not super heavy weights), box jumps, stair climbing, bent rowing, and any Firm video type butt lift type exercise.

I need a spread sheet that shows me that a 30 minute run will affect my TDEE in one way and 30 mins of strength training will affect my TDEE in its own way. I need someone to help me see the benefits of all the work I am already doing and a reason to do more or I am sticking with exactly what I am doing, even the spazzing feeling I get when I do a strength type day of back work or chest work and I burn next to nothing. ...HELP

I have no defined waist...I am a very straight up and down shape. When my shoulders look wider and my arms get bigger instead of just more defined since there is not whittling at my waist, my whole body just seems thicker. I love how my back looks in workout gear and I think my arms and shoulders are kick *kitten* in a short sleeved shirt or tank top, but put me in a sweater and I just look fat. Someone help me here. I don't want to avoid something that is good for my body out of vanity but I also don't want jump into this whole NROLFW and hate the process, the results, and feel like I am flying blind as far as my calories are concerned.

I am open to quality information that will help me see the benefits. I do a lot of push ups and do light weights once or twice a week, but it is always incorporated into circuit type activities so I can keep my HR up so I can still see that burn on my HRM. If this is not the optimal way to keep my body lean and strong and get me to my main goal of kick *kitten* marathons and a half ironman then I will change the way I am doing things.

Replies

  • rduhlir
    rduhlir Posts: 3,550 Member
    Okay..you are way over complicating this. K.I.S.S....Keep it simply sweety.

    What I did was look at my exercise. I averaged about an hour a day when I was in HM training, so I used moderate activity. Used one of the calculators (just pick one, they are all estimates anyway) and did -20%. Now that I am no longer HM training, I have dropped to lightly active. I used the same calculator as I did before to keep consistancy.

    You are putting too much complication into this. You don't need to have a different calorie amount on weight days vs cardio days.
  • kelsully
    kelsully Posts: 1,008 Member
    How does that jive though if I burn less on strength days than I do on cardio days?

    I am sure I am thinking too much about it. EDs are hard to overcome and I feel the need to earn calories and knowing my goal helps me stay focused to eat enough but not too much. I feel blind here.
  • meagalayne
    meagalayne Posts: 3,383 Member
    I would tend to agree. A steady calories intake day over day will balance out. Our bodies don't need more cals on one day vs. another to function at it's best. Some days, we're just hungrier than others, and vice versa.

    Keep your TDEE steady unless you are increasing your exercise overall. For maintenance, around 2200 is probably a sound range for you?
  • BenjaminMFP88
    BenjaminMFP88 Posts: 660 Member
    You're TDEE is a guideline for longer then a day. As long as you balance out over the week you're fine.
  • rduhlir
    rduhlir Posts: 3,550 Member
    How does that jive though if I burn less on strength days than I do on cardio days?

    I am sure I am thinking too much about it. EDs are hard to overcome and I feel the need to earn calories and knowing my goal helps me stay focused to eat enough but not too much. I feel blind here.

    It will even out over the course of the week. Yes you will burn less on the actual burn, but there is after burn with heavy lifting. The magic doesn't happen while you are at the gym, it happens after wards when your muscles are repairing themselves. So in the end you may only burn 150 calories weight lifting, but will burn a possible total off 300 after your body has repaired itself...the extra 150 just isn't calculated.

    To answer your other questions:

    "I want to know if doing things like plyometric squats, where you squat low and jump at the top, count as strength."

    ~These are body weight exercises and if you have been doing these for long, you may have already platued out on the actual strength building they provide your body and have shifted into these allowing more endurance. In order to strength train properly you need to be adding in more resistance, which means more weight. But these are great cross trainings for running...but it works on form and power and endurance, not really true strength gain.

    "I want to know why if I do at least one of the following each day and my *kitten* is still flat: plyo squats, plyo lunges, weighted squats (admittedly not super heavy weights), box jumps, stair climbing, bent rowing, and any Firm video type butt lift type exercise."

    This is all about fat loss, which is achived on a calorie deficit. You can't spot reduce. So you just have to keep up with the TDEE-X% that you have been doing.
  • davepearson86
    davepearson86 Posts: 158 Member
    TLDR

    Strength : answer to all life's problems, you'll get lean as hell and look awesome with a great shape

    Cardio: spawn of Satan sent here to keep you fat. Do 60 mins cardio a day for a few weeks and your body will adapt to that IE: if your TDEE is 2000 and you burn 600 calories of cardio every day. Very soon your TDEE will reset around the 2000 calorie mark WITH the cardio.

    This is why there's people doing hours and hours of cardio and eating 1200 calories and losing no weight even though that shouldnt be possible. I watched OOMF do this for months and she wouldnt listen to anyone's advice.
  • rduhlir
    rduhlir Posts: 3,550 Member
    TLDR

    Strength : answer to all life's problems, you'll get lean as hell and look awesome with a great shape

    Cardio: spawn of Satan sent here to keep you fat. Do 60 mins cardio a day for a few weeks and your body will adapt to that IE: if your TDEE is 2000 and you burn 600 calories of cardio every day. Very soon your TDEE will reset around the 2000 calorie mark WITH the cardio.

    This is why there's people doing hours and hours of cardio and eating 1200 calories and losing no weight even though that shouldnt be possible. I watched OOMF do this for months and she wouldnt listen to anyone's advice.

    Yeah...irrelevent to what is truly being discussed...just thought I would let you know.
  • ummommyme
    ummommyme Posts: 362 Member
    I will suggest adding in weighted deadlifts, hip thrusts, glute bridges for you flat bum:) Look bret Contreras the glute guy he wrote strong curves with kellie davis. He has a website and book. Very informative and will help you get a strong butt!
  • erickirb
    erickirb Posts: 12,278 Member
    TDEE should be total weekly average maintenance divided by 7. some days will be higher, others lower. If over time you are not getting the results you expected either increase or decrease calories to achieve the desired results.

    OP the benefits of exercise and strength training should not be seen by caloric expenditure, that is just a byproduct.

    Cardio strengthen your heart, increase endurance both are good.
    Strength training, increase the % fat you lose while losing weight, retains lean muscle, makes you stronger, helps prevent osteoporosis.
    If you are worried about the cals so much, then I suggest the biggest focus should be on diet, as exercise is for health, and body composition whereas diet is for weight loss/gain.
  • Mischievous_Rascal
    Mischievous_Rascal Posts: 1,791 Member
    I will suggest adding in weighted deadlifts, hip thrusts, glute bridges for you flat bum:) Look bret Contreras the glute guy he wrote strong curves with kellie davis. He has a website and book. Very informative and will help you get a strong butt!

    Deadlifts are awesome for your bum!! And as long as you set your TDEE accurately, you will balance out your calories over the week. That's why I love the TDEE method. As long as I keep my activity level constant and I just have to worry about my calories consumed only. :)
  • rduhlir
    rduhlir Posts: 3,550 Member
    Oh...one other thing I noticed you talking about. Get the "Eek heavy lifting will make me bulky" crap out of your head, because it won't. Need visual proof? Go take a look at the US and UK female Olympic Weightlifting teams.
  • kelsully
    kelsully Posts: 1,008 Member
    >>>>Oh...one other thing I noticed you talking about. Get the "Eek heavy lifting will make me bulky" crap out of your head, because it won't. Need visual proof? Go take a look at the US and UK female Olympic Weightlifting teams. >>>>

    I know I won't get bulky but I only like how I look wearing workout clothes..which I admit is pretty cool...but in work clothes , where you cannot see muscle definition etc and see why my shoulders are wide etc then I look I ****.
  • erickirb
    erickirb Posts: 12,278 Member
    >>>>Oh...one other thing I noticed you talking about. Get the "Eek heavy lifting will make me bulky" crap out of your head, because it won't. Need visual proof? Go take a look at the US and UK female Olympic Weightlifting teams. >>>>

    I know I won't get bulky but I only like how I look wearing workout clothes..which I admit is pretty cool...but in work clothes , where you cannot see muscle definition etc and see why my shoulders are wide etc then I look I ****.

    That is not from strength training, lose the fat and you won't look bulky even if you are ripped to shreds. You need a caloric surplus, years of lifting and possibly performance enhancing drugs to get like that.

    You may notice you feel bigger, that is 2 parts, one with less fat you see the muscle better, but if you measure you are probably actually smaller than before (please take before measurements/photos, helps you see progress), and after a workout your muscles do retain water to repair and protect so you may have that pumped feeling/look but that goes away pretty soon afterwords.
  • BigGuy47
    BigGuy47 Posts: 1,768 Member
    You are putting too much complication into this. You don't need to have a different calorie amount on weight days vs cardio days.
    Solid post.

    The only thing I would add is, leave the HRM in the gym bag on strength days. HRMs don't reflect calories burned for strength training.
  • rduhlir
    rduhlir Posts: 3,550 Member
    >>>>Oh...one other thing I noticed you talking about. Get the "Eek heavy lifting will make me bulky" crap out of your head, because it won't. Need visual proof? Go take a look at the US and UK female Olympic Weightlifting teams. >>>>

    I know I won't get bulky but I only like how I look wearing workout clothes..which I admit is pretty cool...but in work clothes , where you cannot see muscle definition etc and see why my shoulders are wide etc then I look I ****.

    Sorry...that is what I took from your original post as it was worded. If you are worried about the broad shoulders, or looks in your work clothes...that could be weight, but could be genetics as well. There are plenty of ripped people who don't look ripped in clothing. Bobby Dean is one of those people....looks fat on TV, but have you seen him with his shirt off? WOW! There are some females I have worked with in the military who are like that. One was a BM at my old station. She looked kind of bulky in uniform, but in normal clothing she looked great. It could just be your body frame, and that is all genetics. Can't do anything about that. If you naturally have a larger bone structure, bulky work clothes might end up just looking crappy. Nothing you can really do about that.

    Also, the way the clothing is sewn and crafted and materials all affect that a well...again other things you just can't change.
  • sijomial
    sijomial Posts: 19,859 Member
    Cardio: spawn of Satan sent here to keep you fat. Do 60 mins cardio a day for a few weeks and your body will adapt to that IE: if your TDEE is 2000 and you burn 600 calories of cardio every day. Very soon your TDEE will reset around the 2000 calorie mark WITH the cardio.

    This is why there's people doing hours and hours of cardio and eating 1200 calories and losing no weight even though that shouldnt be possible. I watched OOMF do this for months and she wouldnt listen to anyone's advice.

    Wut?
    Rarely have I seen such unmitigated nonsense!
  • kelsully
    kelsully Posts: 1,008 Member
    >>>>Oh...one other thing I noticed you talking about. Get the "Eek heavy lifting will make me bulky" crap out of your head, because it won't. Need visual proof? Go take a look at the US and UK female Olympic Weightlifting teams. >>>>

    I know I won't get bulky but I only like how I look wearing workout clothes..which I admit is pretty cool...but in work clothes , where you cannot see muscle definition etc and see why my shoulders are wide etc then I look I ****.

    Sorry...that is what I took from your original post as it was worded. If you are worried about the broad shoulders, or looks in your work clothes...that could be weight, but could be genetics as well. There are plenty of ripped people who don't look ripped in clothing. Bobby Dean is one of those people....looks fat on TV, but have you seen him with his shirt off? WOW! There are some females I have worked with in the military who are like that. One was a BM at my old station. She looked kind of bulky in uniform, but in normal clothing she looked great. It could just be your body frame, and that is all genetics. Can't do anything about that. If you naturally have a larger bone structure, bulky work clothes might end up just looking crappy. Nothing you can really do about that.

    Also, the way the clothing is sewn and crafted and materials all affect that a well...again other things you just can't change.

    Thank you for your thoughtful responses. If I could walk around all day in fitness wear I would be all set. :)