muscle Loss VS. Fat loss

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Hello everyone, I have a question. I am a male 30 years old.

I stared my weight loss goal on oct20th 2013 at 360.8 pounds, now as of dec 30th I am 302.4 that's 58.4 pounds lost!! and since then I have been eating 1,200-1,400 calories aday, and walking brisk 50 mins aday, and have giving up soda, and sweets and fast food,

I am eating 3 scramble eggs in the moring no yolk and have just started adding light weight lifting for 10-15mins aday.

My quest is am I losing fat? or am I just losing all muscle? I know the Muscle weighs more than fat is a lie / myth. but I have lost 7 1/2'' off my waist , 1'' off my hips, 1'' off my legs, 2'' off my chest. and feel better than ever. also I am now 2 shirt size smaller.

but when I look in the mirror I can not see any change in me. so am I losing fat or just all muscle????
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Replies

  • rileysowner
    rileysowner Posts: 8,239 Member
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    First of all 1200-1400 calories a day for a male unless you are like 4' tall is way too little. Generally for a male a minimum of 1500 calories is considered necessary for meeting nutritional needs. At your weight and height, you should likely be eating a lot more as such low calories will result in a larger percentage of muscle loss.

    As to your weight loss, you likely have lost fat and muscle, but the percentages of each is impossible to determine without a DEXA scan. Keep measuring your progress with more than just the scale. Taking measurements or chest, waist, and hips at the very least is good. I would also suggest taking a photo every 3-4 weeks to be able to compare since it will let you see the changes over time more clearly.

    In terms of exercise, I would suggest increasing the resistance training as much as you can. Heavier weights are good if available. Bodyweight exercises works well as well.
  • helpme8319
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    thanks, the hard thing about eating above 1,500 calories is when I do then I am way over my sodium for the day. I use to eat at 1,600-1,700 and did not lose any weight. I do not cook so I have been trying to eat good food from what I can make.
  • moosegt35
    moosegt35 Posts: 1,296 Member
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    You are likely losing both but lifting weights will help you retain the muscle. Also, as far as muscle weighing more than fat. Nothing weighs more than anything else. A pounds of feathers weighs the same as a pound of brick. HOWEVER, a pound of fat is bigger than a pound of muscle, if that makes more sense.
  • Huffdogg
    Huffdogg Posts: 1,934 Member
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    Hello everyone, I have a question. I am a male 30 years old.

    I stared my weight loss goal on oct20th 2013 at 360.8 pounds, now as of dec 30th I am 302.4 that's 58.4 pounds lost!! and since then I have been eating 1,200-1,400 calories aday, and walking brisk 50 mins aday, and have giving up soda, and sweets and fast food,

    I am eating 3 scramble eggs in the moring no yolk and have just started adding light weight lifting for 10-15mins aday.

    My quest is am I losing fat? or am I just losing all muscle? I know the Muscle weighs more than fat is a lie / myth. but I have lost 7 1/2'' off my waist , 1'' off my hips, 1'' off my legs, 2'' off my chest. and feel better than ever. also I am now 2 shirt size smaller.

    but when I look in the mirror I can not see any change in me. so am I losing fat or just all muscle????

    1. You're not eating nearly enough unless you're under doctor's supervision
    2. Muscle DOES weight more than fat. It is denser. A cubic inch of muscle has more mass than a cubic inch of adipose.
    3. You are losing both. Keep up on the walking, make sure your protein is up to par (not using MFP's recommendation), and concentrate on lifting Heavy weight (something you can only get about 5 good reps out of) to signal to your body to hang onto muscle while you shed fat.
  • lporter229
    lporter229 Posts: 4,907 Member
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    I agree with much of what rileysowner said. While I am by no means an expert, I will offer you the knowledge that I have gained mainly through these forums. First, it is virtually impossible to lose a large amount of fat without also losing some muscle. But the good news is that the more fat you have to lose, the larger percentage of the weight loss will be fat. In order to minimize the amount of muscle you lose, I would suggest the following:

    Eat more calories. 1200-1400 is not enough for most males, particularly over 300 lbs. Yes, you need to have a deficit to lose weight, but if the deficit is too large, the more likely you are to lose muscle. It might take a bit longer to see the number on the scale go down, but it will be worth it in the long run.

    Add strength training to your fitness routine as much as possible. This will help to preserve the muscle you have.

    Reassess your nutritional and fitness goals often as you continue to lose weight. As your body changes, so will your nutritional needs. I prefer to use the TDEE calculators for calorie requirements, but it is really just a personal preference. You can find much information on the subject by looking around the forums and on line.

    Congrats on your weight loss so far! I wish you much continued success.
  • MinnieInMaine
    MinnieInMaine Posts: 6,400 Member
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    thanks, the hard thing about eating above 1,500 calories is when I do then I am way over my sodium for the day. I use to eat at 1,600-1,700 and did not lose any weight. I do not cook so I have been trying to eat good food from what I can make.

    If you're getting that much sodium from 1500 calories, you seriously need to reassess what foods you're eating. Do you happen to have a particularly low sodium limit due to a health concern?

    Also noticed your food diary is emplty, at least for the last few days - assume you're using another app to track. Are you sure it's accurate? Do you check their nutritional info against labels and other sources? Do you weigh and measure your food for accuracy?

    I'm also curious if you're under a doctor's supervision for such a lower calories diet? That really is far too few calories for a man, especially someone who's active and carrying around extra pounds. As someone else pointed out, being obese is in your favor at this point because with a higher body fat percentage, you're more likely to lose less muscle than someone who's at a lower body fat percentage and following a VLCD as you are. However it's still could be dangerous to your health to eat so little as you could be losing out on vital nutrients.
  • stat1124
    stat1124 Posts: 163 Member
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    As you start off, you may lose some percentage of muscle but the majority will still be fat. Not sure if you went to your doctor who in turn put you on a 1200 to 1400 diet. If so, you should stick with their recommendation. If its just a number you came up with, remember that your body needs fuel (good clean fuel) to boost your metabolism naturally. This in turn will help you burn more calories per day. If you are afraid of eating too much bad food with the caloric increase, think about throwing in a Veggie/Fruit juice into your already established diet. Juices range around 300-500 calories per 12oz depending on what fruits and juices you use. However the byproduct of that is that your body is getting a surge of natural vitamins and micro-nutrients that will absorb fast into your system because your stomach does not have to process all of the fiber in the veggies and fruits. I would definitely do some research on juicing and see if it sounds like a good option. Im on the run alot so i don't have time to cook meals every night, and supplementing a juice that takes 25 mins to make and drink and clean up works great for me. I would take a look at http://www.rebootwithjoe.com/ or www.all-about-juicing.com Riley was on point with your measurements. Take them weekly. VERY IMPORTANT....You will not see the results when you look in the mirror at first. So many people get discouraged by this. DON'T. You will always feel it in the clothes you wear and how you feel first. When your clothes start fitting more loosely you will now that it is working. When you have more energy, when you can think more clearly, you know that your body is working in a positive direction. Do not worry about the visuals, if you keep with the program, the results surely will come! Also you are walking 50 mins briskly a day. I would try to double that if you can. Keeping your heart rate up for a long sustain period of time also allows you to burn calories more efficiently and you also get the added bonus of release of endorphins which make you feel great! Feel free to add me as a friend and I'll be happy to help you in any way I can along your journey! Good Luck and Happy New Year!!
  • adamrutgers
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    I don't want to sound condescending, but you're doing it all wrong. Most of the information here is correct, but they're not giving you the full story.

    You've been dieting way too quickly and you're most likely losing muscle and fat, not to mention you're running the risk of having a lot of excess skin. Because of your weight condition, you will have excess skin, but you can minimize that if you diet slower. I know we all want to lose as much weight as possible and look our best, but our bodies need time to adapt and doing what you're doing will only ensure that you put that weight back the second you get off your diet.

    If you're not seeing positive changes in body composition, as mentioned above, you're probably losing muscle as well as fat and because you're losing it so quickly you have excess skin.

    What you need to do is first increase your calories back up to maintenance calories for about a week. So for you that's 13.5*305 = 3965. You won't gain any weight. But I emphasize, DO THIS SLOWLY. Possibly over the course of 2-4 weeks, increase this back up. And eat those 3965 calories for about a week, and then slowly bring this down. First start with a 100 calorie deficit and do that for about 5-7 days. Then go down 150, and again 5-7 days. Then 200, until you reach about 1000 calorie deficit a day. With your weight, you can safely lose 2lbs a week if you diet down properly. Get about a 1 gram of protein per bodyweight a day (that probably means a lot of protein shakes), a good amount of HEALTHY fats (fish oil, olive oil, nuts) and the rest from carbs.

    You can also look into EC stack. It will increase thermogensis, suppress appetite, and help you retain muscle while cutting the fat.

    I'm not going to go into the specifics of EC because a simple google search will lead you to where you want.
  • GradatimFerociter
    GradatimFerociter Posts: 296 Member
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    Hey.

    Firstly, and most importantly, congratulations on making the decision to take account of your health and try to improve it. I am early on in the same process myself.

    Secondly, you will have lost plenty of fat but also some muscle and a fair amount of water. As a larger guy it will be harder to see improvements in the mirror especially as they happen gradually so finding some other metric for improvement would be good.

    You can jump on one of several well used beginner lifting programs that offer simple, linear progress from a standing start if you have access to a gym. If not then do what you can and try to increase your output some other way (reps, time etc). At the very least you can do calisthenics at home.

    Thirdly, eat all the chicken and broccoli. :p
  • helpme8319
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    Thanks for all the info. I am eating 1,200-1,500 calories aday as that is all I have readfrom the natinial hesrt lug,and tisue boards. For weight lose women should eat 1,000-1,200 calories a day for weight lose. For men to lose weight they should eat 1,200-1,600 a day to lose weight and drink lots of water, walk 50+ mins 5 days a week, and weight train for 30+ mins 3 days a week. So this is all I am going on. I can't aford a gym member ship or doctor fees to tell me what to do I am alone. But I can say I fit in a XL shirt and I was in a 3x-4x and I do not get out of breath when walk. I tried the weight lifting about a month back and got sever torn muscle and a doctor told me the next time that happens I would need tohave it repaired. So I can't do heavy lifting.

    Now if I drink protein shakes will this help keep muscle? I know of men that are vegins and they only eat 900-1,000 cals a day and they are ok.
  • Huffdogg
    Huffdogg Posts: 1,934 Member
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    Get about a 1 gram of protein per bodyweight a day

    Waay excessive for someone with as high a bf% as OP. 1 gram per pound of LBM is the real figure, and when you're really overweight, that becomes a huge difference. OP would probably be ok starting around 175 and going from there.

    OP: blanket statements like the ones you quoted are pointlessly irrelevant. You can't just say "men eat 1200-1600" because that doesn't take into account height, age, activity level, current weight, lean body mass, etc. Also, "heavy lifting" doesn't mean "grab ALL THE WEIGHTS." It means lift whatever is going to be challenging for you. To quote Henry Rollins: The best way to fight weakness is with strength. If you don't know proper form for the lifts you are attempting, do some digging online for instructional video to learn proper form, start off very light until you are comfortable with the lifts, and THEN increase the intensity. You need that heavy stimulus to retain muscle, especially with such a long road of deficit eating to look forward to.

    Protein shakes are just one way to get protein, and a largely unnecessary one at that. If you can get your protein from food, do that every time. Lots of lean meat and vegetables ftw.

    There's nothing wrong with all the walking, but really all it's doing is creating a larger deficit and giving your heart and lungs a bit of a charge. It's great for someone just starting to get their health under control, but it's going to start giving diminishing returns fairly soon, so be ready for that.

    What equipment do you have access to? What is your daily activity level like (job, regular life, etc)? How tall are you?
  • helpme8319
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    Thanks I am not sure I know what OP means or is??? I am a full time Entertainer (Magician) so I lift heavy trunks and setup and perform a 1 hour magic show most days, The only weight lifting thing I have is at my church its a bow flex so I have been working my legs, and arms after I walk 50mins. but that's all I have to work with as the closest gym is 45mins from my home and its $498 a year and I can not drive that far each day as the gas along would eat me up in a week!!

    So I am 6'2'' and right now I am 303.4 was 360.8 when I started. But I tried eating 1,800 calories aday and di not lose any weight for 3-4 weeks, so I lower it down to 1,500 and still nothing after 3 weeks, then I droped it to 1,300-1,400 and I have been loseing 3lbs a week some weeks only 2.4lbs but that seems to be working.
  • Huffdogg
    Huffdogg Posts: 1,934 Member
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    Thanks I am not sure I know what OP means or is??? I am a full time Entertainer (Magician) so I lift heavy trunks and setup and perform a 1 hour magic show most days, The only weight lifting thing I have is at my church its a bow flex so I have been working my legs, and arms after I walk 50mins. but that's all I have to work with as the closest gym is 45mins from my home and its $498 a year and I can not drive that far each day as the gas along would eat me up in a week!!

    So I am 6'2'' and right now I am 303.4 was 360.8 when I started. But I tried eating 1,800 calories aday and di not lose any weight for 3-4 weeks, so I lower it down to 1,500 and still nothing after 3 weeks, then I droped it to 1,300-1,400 and I have been loseing 3lbs a week some weeks only 2.4lbs but that seems to be working.

    OP: Original Poster

    I have to say, you might be having some issues with your logging. At your height/weight/age/activity level, you should be able to take in 3k calories a day and still be losing. 2300 would be a deficit without even taking into account daily activity. I really think you're eating far too little. Be patient and safe about this and do some more research online and do it soon in order to try to get the discrepancies sorted.
  • rileysowner
    rileysowner Posts: 8,239 Member
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    I was looking at your food diary and didn't see anything logged. One of the most important things to do it log and do so carefully. Namely, measuring your food with actual kitchen scale or measuring spoons or cups. If you are not doing this, you really have no idea how much you are eating.

    To start, the vitally important thing is to really know, as accurately as you can, how many calories you are eating. If you do not know this, you are just guessing. You may be eating way more calories than you think, or far less.

    In terms of your stated goals, unless you have some major metabolic illness, you are eating far to little.
  • michellekicks
    michellekicks Posts: 3,624 Member
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    Here is an anecdotal example for you... I lost 60 lbs about 12 years ago. It took a year but it was all the weight I had to lose at the time. I was doing weight watchers, which was giving me an average of 1200-1400 calories daily and I was running to train for a half marathon. Of the 60 lbs I lost, 13.5 lbs were lean mass... almost 25%.

    You'll be losing fat. You have lots of fat to lose, but yeah, you're probably shedding lean mass too. Be sure to get 1g protein for each pound of your goal weight at least as a sort of guideline and then do a full body lifting routine 3 times a week to retain the muscle in conjunction with the protein. That will spare as much as possible if you're dead set on losing that quickly.

    For some people, losing quickly is important. If it's not, go a bit slower and you'll lose even less lean mass in the process.
  • Mr_Knight
    Mr_Knight Posts: 9,532 Member
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    For someone with as much to lose as you, your intake is fine (in terms of calories), and you are almost certainly losing mostly fat.
  • Mr_Knight
    Mr_Knight Posts: 9,532 Member
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    I use to eat at 1,600-1,700 and did not lose any weight.

    Impossible. There is something wrong with your calorie counting.
  • the_dude00
    the_dude00 Posts: 1,056 Member
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    You're probably losing both Fat & Muscle.

    You need to eat more. To preserve muscle while losing weight, eat a lot of protein. Given your size, I think you should shoot for 200 grams a day.
  • Mr_Knight
    Mr_Knight Posts: 9,532 Member
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    Someone with that much to lose and not losing at "1600" calories is not counting correctly, and advice to "eat more" is completely inappropriate.
  • mustgetmuscles1
    mustgetmuscles1 Posts: 3,346 Member
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    I did not read all the other posts so I might be repeating what others have said.

    Protein and heavy resistance training are both muscle sparing while losing weight. Being overweight and new to lifting you could add muscle while cutting body fat if you start now and get enough protein. 175 grams per day sounds good but that would be minimum. If you went over that would not be bad either.

    You have a lot to lose but once you get closer to goal the amount you lose per week should scale down a bit. Start logging all your food accurately. 1.5-2 pounds per week loss should be OK until you get closer to 200lbs. Then you might want to slow it down a little.