No carbs starches or sugar?

Sarasjourney
Sarasjourney Posts: 24
in Food and Nutrition
I'm in the process of having weight loss surgery and part of my process is seeing a dietician. I understand that, after surgery, it becomes all about proteins and have no problems with that. However the dietician mentioned something to me that I don't think is quite right: I'm to no longer have carbs of any kind, no starchy vegetables, and no sugar. None, zip, nada.

It's been my experience that moderation is always key in lifestyle changes and that, unless for health reasons, completely eliminating something is not good because it can lead to falling off the wagon and even binging on the "bad" foods. And as far as I've read and been told this isn't for a health reason, it's just because these are "bad" foods.

I'm basically looking for second opinions.
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Replies

  • nomeejerome
    nomeejerome Posts: 2,616 Member
    Sugar is a carb.
    You are right, unless you have a medical condition, there is no reason to eliminate items. Find a new dietician and one that does not label foods as good or bad. (And one that knows sugar is a carb)
  • bajoyba
    bajoyba Posts: 1,153 Member
    I haven't cut anything out whatsoever, but I'm not well-acquainted with weight loss surgery or how a person needs to prepare for it. Have you asked your dietitian for clarification on why you need to cut these out before the surgery or what your diet will consist of once you have it? Maybe if starches and sugars make up very little of your diet post-surgery, he/she is trying to ease you into a new way of eating.

    But I would definitely communicate your concerns to your health care professionals. Weight loss surgery is a big deal, and you have every right to be informed every step of the way. :smile:
  • Sarasjourney
    Sarasjourney Posts: 24
    I haven't cut anything out whatsoever, but I'm not well-acquainted with weight loss surgery or how a person needs to prepare for it. Have you asked your dietitian for clarification on why you need to cut these out before the surgery or what your diet will consist of once you have it? Maybe if starches and sugars make up very little of your diet post-surgery, he/she is trying to ease you into a new way of eating.

    But I would definitely communicate your concerns to your health care professionals. Weight loss surgery is a big deal, and you have every right to be informed every step of the way. :smile:

    I didn't ask her to clarify. What I've been told is when I eat post-surgery my proteins must come first, then the veggies or whatever else I'm having since I'll be getting the sleeve and I'll only have a quarter cup of stomach room to work with. I read a manual put out by another hospital for weight loss surgery patients and nowhere does it say completely cut out these things, it simply emphasizes the importance of getting your proteins.

    There is another dietician that works with surgery patients that I can ask but I thought about asking here as well.
  • rainbowbow
    rainbowbow Posts: 7,490 Member
    Perhaps I'm wrong, but surely she didn't mean absolutely 0g carbs, right? It's my understanding that our brains NEED glucose.
  • Sarasjourney
    Sarasjourney Posts: 24
    Perhaps I'm wrong, but surely she didn't mean absolutely 0g carbs, right? It's my understanding that our brains NEED glucose.

    Yep, none whatsoever. That's what got me to questioning what she said. The no starches thing I could understand to a point but I've read before that carbs aren't the bad foods we think they are and all in moderation.
  • rainbowbow
    rainbowbow Posts: 7,490 Member
    Perhaps I'm wrong, but surely she didn't mean absolutely 0g carbs, right? It's my understanding that our brains NEED glucose.

    Yep, none whatsoever. That's what got me to questioning what she said. The no starches thing I could understand to a point but I've read before that carbs aren't the bad foods we think they are and all in moderation.

    True, but how on earth would you get your micronutrients (vitamins & minerals) eating NO fruits and vegetables? I would also look into the brain needing carbs- I believe it's something that cannot be synthesized when metabolizing fat. I don't know how MANY carbs, or how little, but I believe if I remember correctly they ARE necessary.
  • rduclasjr
    rduclasjr Posts: 1 Member
    The topic of carbs is very controversial obviously but as a physician ( which does not make me a nutrition expert, but more versed in the biochemistry of energy intake/expenditure), your nutritionist may just be way ahead of the curve right now. Basically post surgery hunger management and portion control are going to be key to your success. A dietary plan rich in protein in fat will keep you satisfied/less hungry, steady your glucose levels, and decrease insulin spikes which promote fat deposition. The biochemistry of eating is still being deciphered but it seems to lead to a supporting of the paleo, primal, ketogenic diet tracks. Yes, when you tell someone to avoid something they will think about it more , so her advice may backfire. The proper or more helpful approach would have been to let you feel the positive effects of eating a diet low in carbs, high in fat/protein. As far as how your surgery affects your ability to handle high fat diets, I"m not sure. In my experience carbs from vegetables and low glycemic foods are the way to go. Yes balance and moderation are good virtues, but our bodies weren't evolved to live on the high glycemic, large portion, super starchy offerings that are all around us. The more you eat those foods the more your body will crave them because of the insulin dysregulation/ diabetic profile that will manifest after a while if not already in your case since you are having gastric bypass. I feel the way to think about it is there are many people who are functional drug users ( cocaine , crack, marijuana, alcohol) who don't prove necessarily that it is ok to use those substances or that they are part of a balanced lifestyle. sorry if that's a bad example. Just trying to help and inform.
  • rainbowbow
    rainbowbow Posts: 7,490 Member
    http://www.marksdailyapple.com/how-much-glucose-does-your-brain-really-need/#axzz2pgd9StC5

    Even this guy who is a super low-carb zealot states 30g is the biological necessity needed for brain function.
  • JourneyingJessica
    JourneyingJessica Posts: 261 Member
    I think there are some groups of those who have had WLS. Maybe check them out?

    It might be no carbs for a while especially while you learn to eat again. That makes more sense than no carbs forever.
  • Will_Thrust_For_Candy
    Will_Thrust_For_Candy Posts: 6,109 Member
    The topic of carbs is very controversial obviously but as a physician ( which does not make me a nutrition expert, but more versed in the biochemistry of energy intake/expenditure), your nutritionist may just be way ahead of the curve right now. Basically post surgery hunger management and portion control are going to be key to your success. A dietary plan rich in protein in fat will keep you satisfied/less hungry, steady your glucose levels, and decrease insulin spikes which promote fat deposition. The biochemistry of eating is still being deciphered but it seems to lead to a supporting of the paleo, primal, ketogenic diet tracks. Yes, when you tell someone to avoid something they will think about it more , so her advice may backfire. The proper or more helpful approach would have been to let you feel the positive effects of eating a diet low in carbs, high in fat/protein. As far as how your surgery affects your ability to handle high fat diets, I"m not sure. In my experience carbs from vegetables and low glycemic foods are the way to go. Yes balance and moderation are good virtues, but our bodies weren't evolved to live on the high glycemic, large portion, super starchy offerings that are all around us. The more you eat those foods the more your body will crave them because of the insulin dysregulation/ diabetic profile that will manifest after a while if not already in your case since you are having gastric bypass. I feel the way to think about it is there are many people who are functional drug users ( cocaine , crack, marijuana, alcohol) who don't prove necessarily that it is ok to use those substances or that they are part of a balanced lifestyle. sorry if that's a bad example. Just trying to help and inform.

    :huh:

    OP I would find another dietician to speak to about this. I think it's important that you get ALL of the information (accurate especially!) about what will be required post surgery. I can understand a diet high in protein because a small amount will help you feel fuller longer when you aren't able to eat large meals. But the rest just really makes little sense. Your body needs carbs and fats to function properly. It's also concerning because if you can't forsee yourself living the rest of your life within the parameters of the requirements of the surgery, then perhaps it's something you shouldn't go through with? You seem to have a very good understanding of nutrition, have you tried your hand at weight loss without surgery? No judgement, just trying to be supportive :smile:
  • Sarasjourney
    Sarasjourney Posts: 24


    :huh:

    OP I would find another dietician to speak to about this. I think it's important that you get ALL of the information (accurate especially!) about what will be required post surgery. I can understand a diet high in protein because a small amount will help you feel fuller longer when you aren't able to eat large meals. But the rest just really makes little sense. Your body needs carbs and fats to function properly. It's also concerning because if you can't forsee yourself living the rest of your life within the parameters of the requirements of the surgery, then perhaps it's something you shouldn't go through with? You seem to have a very good understanding of nutrition, have you tried your hand at weight loss without surgery? No judgement, just trying to be supportive :smile:

    I did try, for years and then in 2012 I joined here under a previous account. I lost some weight but my body stalled and I gained everything back and then some despite eating well and exercising. I also have PCOS which hinders my weight loss even more. This surgery is basically my last resort.
  • Sarasjourney
    Sarasjourney Posts: 24
    Gonna bump this up for the morning crowd, get some more opinions.
  • neanderthin
    neanderthin Posts: 10,262 Member
    Gonna bump this up for the morning crowd, get some more opinions.
    Get clarification because I'm sure any dietition would never recommend that someone eat no plant material whatsoever. It's probably the higher calorie and glycemic load carbs they were referring to.....personally I would have had that conversation on the spot. Talk to them again regardless of what people say here.
  • Will_Thrust_For_Candy
    Will_Thrust_For_Candy Posts: 6,109 Member


    :huh:

    OP I would find another dietician to speak to about this. I think it's important that you get ALL of the information (accurate especially!) about what will be required post surgery. I can understand a diet high in protein because a small amount will help you feel fuller longer when you aren't able to eat large meals. But the rest just really makes little sense. Your body needs carbs and fats to function properly. It's also concerning because if you can't forsee yourself living the rest of your life within the parameters of the requirements of the surgery, then perhaps it's something you shouldn't go through with? You seem to have a very good understanding of nutrition, have you tried your hand at weight loss without surgery? No judgement, just trying to be supportive :smile:

    I did try, for years and then in 2012 I joined here under a previous account. I lost some weight but my body stalled and I gained everything back and then some despite eating well and exercising. I also have PCOS which hinders my weight loss even more. This surgery is basically my last resort.

    Yeah, PCOS is a tough one. I do know that there are lots of women here that have PCOS and have had success. I think there is a group as well. Have you ever reached out to anyone that is in the same boat as you? Again, just trying to be supportive :smile: IMO, you just need to get all of the information together and make a really informed decision. It's my understanding, and correct me if I'm wrong, that you can still gain weight back after having the surgery, so if the guidelines around being successful after the surgery are not conducive to your lifestyle, then perhaps it's something to reconsider.
  • twixlepennie
    twixlepennie Posts: 1,074 Member
    Perhaps I'm wrong, but surely she didn't mean absolutely 0g carbs, right? It's my understanding that our brains NEED glucose.

    Yep, none whatsoever. That's what got me to questioning what she said. The no starches thing I could understand to a point but I've read before that carbs aren't the bad foods we think they are and all in moderation.

    That's virtually impossible. Most foods have carbs, including veggies and fruit. You need to ask your dr. for clarification.
  • MyFoodGod
    MyFoodGod Posts: 184 Member
    You are looking for validation of your wishes because you do not like the professional advice you have been given. Discuss with your doctor. Surgery is serious and will not cure you as you can still eat thru the fix. You may be one of those people who is addicted to sugar.

    Maybe you are not ready for surgery if you already don't want to follow the medical advice of your providers. You are setting yourself up for failure seeking alternative options to support your wish to continue to eat as you wish.

    Food is holding a lot of power in your life. Ask for clarification from your dietician, doctor, medical journals, trusted sources.

    Good luck.
  • mamma_nee
    mamma_nee Posts: 809 Member
    When I was reading up on my options debating about gastric bypass I had read that the no carb after surgery was because your body needs all protein to heal your insides and basically 99% of patients end up having to take hundreds of dollars worth of vitamins each day to make up for all the nutrients missing and ones not being observed by your body
  • Sarasjourney
    Sarasjourney Posts: 24
    You are looking for validation of your wishes because you do not like the professional advice you have been given. Discuss with your doctor. Surgery is serious and will not cure you as you can still eat thru the fix. You may be one of those people who is addicted to sugar.

    Maybe you are not ready for surgery if you already don't want to follow the medical advice of your providers. You are setting yourself up for failure seeking alternative options to support your wish to continue to eat as you wish.

    Food is holding a lot of power in your life. Ask for clarification from your dietician, doctor, medical journals, trusted sources.

    Good luck.

    I'm not looking for any validation of this woman is wrong, I'm asking for help because I'm questioning whether she's indeed right or not. Please don't make assumptions about me as that's rude. And I'm well aware you can regain the weight after surgery, the first thing they tell you is "this is a tool, not a cure." I'm willing to change my diet to whatever needs to happen but again as I've read and been told before, completely eliminating something seems to never work for people and is generally unneeded.
    When I was reading up on my options debating about gastric bypass I had read that the no carb after surgery was because your body needs all protein to heal your insides and basically 99% of patients end up having to take hundreds of dollars worth of vitamins each day to make up for all the nutrients missing and ones not being observed by your body

    You have to take a multivitamin, calcium citrate, iron, and B12. I guess if you go with the bariatric brands they push on you it could be costly but I've taken those vitamins before when I was trying to lose weight upon suggestion of another dietician and it didn't break the bank for me.

    And yes your body needs something like 3 months to heal from the surgery before you can even swallow pills again or eat anything that's not mushy but from the sounds of it this woman was talking forever. That's the part that bothered me.
  • fruttibiscotti
    fruttibiscotti Posts: 986 Member
    The topic of carbs is very controversial obviously but as a physician ( which does not make me a nutrition expert, but more versed in the biochemistry of energy intake/expenditure), your nutritionist may just be way ahead of the curve right now. Basically post surgery hunger management and portion control are going to be key to your success. A dietary plan rich in protein in fat will keep you satisfied/less hungry, steady your glucose levels, and decrease insulin spikes which promote fat deposition. The biochemistry of eating is still being deciphered but it seems to lead to a supporting of the paleo, primal, ketogenic diet tracks. Yes, when you tell someone to avoid something they will think about it more , so her advice may backfire. The proper or more helpful approach would have been to let you feel the positive effects of eating a diet low in carbs, high in fat/protein. As far as how your surgery affects your ability to handle high fat diets, I"m not sure. In my experience carbs from vegetables and low glycemic foods are the way to go. Yes balance and moderation are good virtues, but our bodies weren't evolved to live on the high glycemic, large portion, super starchy offerings that are all around us. The more you eat those foods the more your body will crave them because of the insulin dysregulation/ diabetic profile that will manifest after a while if not already in your case since you are having gastric bypass. I feel the way to think about it is there are many people who are functional drug users ( cocaine , crack, marijuana, alcohol) who don't prove necessarily that it is ok to use those substances or that they are part of a balanced lifestyle. sorry if that's a bad example. Just trying to help and inform.

    ^^^^^^ yes yes yes yes yes....I love this guy! I hope we see more posts from you on MFP!!!!!

    I turned to a low carb diet, and it seems like it is the only thing that worked for me. Not only lost weight, but skin cleared up, no more stomach issues, sleep better, joint pain gone, etc. I eat maximum 30 grams net carbs a day, and because of the moderate protein and high fat content, my hunger is satiated, I don't get the afternoon sleepiness, and no more hunger throughout the day.
  • cclark1203
    cclark1203 Posts: 244 Member
    Before surgery check out an integrative doctor such as one that does what Dr. Mark Hyman does. I tried and tried to lose weight, heavy lifted, logged everything that went into my mouth so on and so on. Then I had some blood testing done that identified food intolerances for me. This is different than allergies, they are much harder to identify on your own. I eliminated 35 foods from my diet that I test positive for and also ended up adding some of my own. Foods such as broccoli, bananas, all melons, all gourds, bakers and brewers yeast, cherries, vanilla, gluten, eggs, etc. etc. I have never felt better in my life, I am 55 and feel like I just started to live fully. I don't wake up with a headache anymore or feel lethargic. I can tell when I have eaten something that doesn't agree with me now. I do drink a medical shake full of nutrients 2x's a day to fortify my body and also vit. d and magnesium. I have dropped 20 lbs and still have 40 more to go but I feel great. To some this would seem pretty drastic but I don't feel it's as drastic as WLS can be.
  • fruttibiscotti
    fruttibiscotti Posts: 986 Member
    I'm in the process of having weight loss surgery and part of my process is seeing a dietician. I understand that, after surgery, it becomes all about proteins and have no problems with that. However the dietician mentioned something to me that I don't think is quite right: I'm to no longer have carbs of any kind, no starchy vegetables, and no sugar. None, zip, nada.

    It's been my experience that moderation is always key in lifestyle changes and that, unless for health reasons, completely eliminating something is not good because it can lead to falling off the wagon and even binging on the "bad" foods. And as far as I've read and been told this isn't for a health reason, it's just because these are "bad" foods.

    I'm basically looking for second opinions.

    OP, I open my diary up to friends. I follow a low carb diet based on LCHF eating. If you are wondering what sort of food meets that criteria you are welcomed to look at what I eat. Just send me a friend request, and I will accept. Also, there is a low carb forum on MFP you may be interesting in asking questions. Here's the link

    http://www.myfitnesspal.com/forums/show/411-low-carber-daily-forum-the-group-

    I sincerely wish the best for you. Take care.
  • cwolfman13
    cwolfman13 Posts: 41,865 Member
    Perhaps I'm wrong, but surely she didn't mean absolutely 0g carbs, right? It's my understanding that our brains NEED glucose.

    Yep, none whatsoever. That's what got me to questioning what she said. The no starches thing I could understand to a point but I've read before that carbs aren't the bad foods we think they are and all in moderation.

    Personally, I'd get some clarification...green leafy vegetables are carbs...

    That said, I know one person who had gastric by-pass surgery and he is on a pretty restrictive diet as well...it may very well be one of those things that "moderation" may not be the key when you're talking about weigh loss surgery...I would pretty much consider having weight loss surgery a medical condition, and certain medical conditions do require certain restrictions.

    But I'd definitely check on the veggies...I could see no starches or added sugars, etc...but veggies are pretty minimal in RE to carbohydrate concentration and sugar and also required to get your vitamins and minerals.
  • highervibes
    highervibes Posts: 2,219 Member
    If you only have 130lbs to lose, and you have already lost 19 why are you getting a surgery that will force you to drastically change how you have to eat for life? And yes, I realize that's none of my business, just thinking out loud.
  • Sarasjourney
    Sarasjourney Posts: 24
    If you only have 130lbs to lose, and you have already lost 19 why are you getting a surgery that will force you to drastically change how you have to eat for life? And yes, I realize that's none of my business, just thinking out loud.

    I think you read something wrong. My goal weight is 130lbs, I'm currently 375lbs.
  • highervibes
    highervibes Posts: 2,219 Member
    If you only have 130lbs to lose, and you have already lost 19 why are you getting a surgery that will force you to drastically change how you have to eat for life? And yes, I realize that's none of my business, just thinking out loud.

    I think you read something wrong. My goal weight is 130lbs, I'm currently 375lbs.

    Yep, I'm an idiot lol
  • soupandcookies
    soupandcookies Posts: 212 Member
    I know several people who have had some type of bariatric surgery, and they all have said that their doctor recommends high protein, low carb diets, post surgery. I am wondering - is this because they think high protein, low carb is most effective for weight loss? Or is this because hp/lc is what will not cause patients GI distress? I am just wondering where this recommendation comes from...
  • MyFoodGod
    MyFoodGod Posts: 184 Member
    While you are researching options you might want to check out Overeaters Anonymous. There are some great podcasts online, particularly the Los Angeles chapter. Listen to half a dozen podcasts and see if you can relate to any of their stories.
  • geeniusatwurk
    geeniusatwurk Posts: 68 Member
    I know several people who have had some type of bariatric surgery, and they all have said that their doctor recommends high protein, low carb diets, post surgery. I am wondering - is this because they think high protein, low carb is most effective for weight loss? Or is this because hp/lc is what will not cause patients GI distress? I am just wondering where this recommendation comes from...

    Since post-bariatric patients have a much smaller stomach volume, they need to focus very heavily on protein and fat due to those macronutrients providing more satiety and the building blocks needed to repair their bodies due to the procedure.
  • fruttibiscotti
    fruttibiscotti Posts: 986 Member
    I know several people who have had some type of bariatric surgery, and they all have said that their doctor recommends high protein, low carb diets, post surgery. I am wondering - is this because they think high protein, low carb is most effective for weight loss? Or is this because hp/lc is what will not cause patients GI distress? I am just wondering where this recommendation comes from...

    Since post-bariatric patients have a much smaller stomach volume, they need to focus very heavily on protein and fat due to those macronutrients providing more satiety and the building blocks needed to repair their bodies due to the procedure.

    And what a pity that this is done AFTER surgery. What about BEFORE surgery...use the high fat and moderate protein and low carb diet to achieve the SATIETY and subsequent calorie reduction to lose the weight so that surgery is not needed to begin with.
  • Wtn_Gurl
    Wtn_Gurl Posts: 396 Member
    OP - does he mean "refined sugars" like white bread, white flour, and sweets and starchy vegetables like potatos, corn and peas? or does he also mean natural sugar found in fruit and other nutritious food?

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