Micro cycle for muscle gain

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I would like to start by saying that I am not trying to create controversy, I am merely trying to get to the bottom of a topic that I am intrigued by and happen to be experiencing right now. So please only respond if your posts are about the subject and it's plausabilibilty. I also apologize in advance for spelling errors and typos. I'm in a hurry.

I have been going through an 8 month "bulking cycle" with very good results while eating at or below what every TDEE calculator out there has told me. All the while, I have gained 6-7 pounds while slightly decreasing my BF%. Conventional thought would tell me that:

1) my TDEE is lower than I think, and that I am actually eating at a surplus. If you think that is the case, please tell me what you think my TDEE should be at 5'10", 154, 142 LBM. Intense workouts 4 times a week, work construction, and lead a VERY active lifestyle. (13,000 steps a day average)

2) I am eating more than I think. I know this is often the case. In mine, it is not. I've been at this a long time, and have it down to a science. I eat a very boring menu with the same breakfast and lunch every day almost, same snacks, and same dessert. I cook my own dinner every night and weigh everything that goes into every recipe. I am aware that there are many things over the course that are impossible to be perfectly accurate on, but I round down to account for this. If anything, I eat less than I log.

3)Newb gains. I've spent the alast 25 years in the gym, more on than off, and have been at it hard for 2 straight years. I am well past that point.

4) I am actually gaining fat at the same time. I know this is not the case. Any of you out there who have single digit BF%'s can attest to the fact that you know when you are gaining fat. You can't hide a pound of fat when you only have 12 to begin with. My scale tells me I have gotten leaner, my mirror tells me I've gotten leaner, and my wife tells me I've gotten leaner. If you have never been ripped, it is impossible to refute this point or understand. When I weighed 185, a pound here or there was not visible.

5) What I am saying is impossible. The internet told me so. In 1993 I ate a entirely fat free diet. You know why, because science told me that if you didn't take in any dietary fat, you couldn't store subcutaneous fat. The point is, regardless of the amount of studies, research, broscience, articles, and prevailing internet "fact", all theories about how each individuals body reacts to specific energy demands and supplies are, while based in science, still somewhat hypothetical.


So now that I've answered many of the semi educated, yet paradigmatic responses I was likely to get, I will get to my original premis: The Micro Cycle. I have come to believe that by doing 24 hour bulk / cut cycles, one can achieve similar results to the traditional 6 week to 6 month cycles while eating at or below daily maintanance. It is similar to intermittent fasting, but for the purpose of muscle gain, not weght loss. I am sure there are other people out there doing this, so I don't think I have invented anything. I knoiw that Scooby has some similar thoughts, just on a slightly larger scale. This is simply post analysis of my success, and my theory as to how I have been able to acheive it. So here it goes:

1) Eat just enough welll balanced mix of protein and carbs from the time you wake up until gym time in the afternoon to prevent your body using your muscle for fuel. Usually around 500-600 calories.

2) Lift with crazy intensity at some point after 3 PM.

3) Eat 1800-2000 calories of protein rich foods betweeon 5 and 10PM (the actual number of course depend on your TDEE). About 1 1/2 grams of protein per lb of BW and the rest carbs and fat. (I do 40% -40%-20%)

What your basically doing is cutting for 12 hours and bulking for 12 hours. You're bulking right after your workout so your body has no choice but to use this extra energy to repair the muscles you have destroyed. Your body doesn't have a memory of what it was doing a few hours ago. It's not going to use all that protein to store fat because it's pissed it burned some this morning. Then the next moring it would rather use any fat you have laying around (or carbs of course) for energy than reap your muscles. While over the course of the 24 hour period, you're not really eating at a surplus, for that 12 hour period you are, and you hold onto it during the next 12 hour period by sustaining a level of energy intake just enough to prevent more losses than you gained. I think the key is finding the "sweet spot" for calories to prevent muscle loss earlier in the day. I do 200 for breakfast and 400ish for lunch.I have been playing with these numbers recently to see how many I can actually eat without gaining fat. The more the merrier obviously.

I have really dumbed down the process for the sake of keeping this post short and sweet, but if any of you out there have similar experinces or opinions on the viability of my theory, please share. If you are a broscience contrarian who doesn't quite know enough to realize they really don't know anything, than please refer to my five earlier points and they will likely address anything you are about to type.
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Replies

  • waldo56
    waldo56 Posts: 1,861 Member
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    You just recomped with a slight surplus.

    6-7 lbs of gain in 8 months is not much at all.

    A more conventional 'lean" bulk will have you gain that much muscle in 3-4 months, 2 for a first timer, with another 2-4 weeks afterward to cut the fat gain (plus a little more) away. Any healthy (and not old) male should be able to achieve 2 lb/mo muscle gain without issue until they've got well over a year of 2 lb/mo muscle gain under their belts (no matter how you split up that gain time).
  • Acg67
    Acg67 Posts: 12,142 Member
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    I would like to start by saying that I am not trying to create controversy, I am merely trying to get to the bottom of a topic that I am intrigued by and happen to be experiencing right now. So please only respond if your posts are about the subject and it's plausabilibilty. I also apologize in advance for spelling errors and typos. I'm in a hurry.

    I have been going through an 8 month "bulking cycle" with very good results while eating at or below what every TDEE calculator out there has told me. All the while, I have gained 6-7 pounds while slightly decreasing my BF%. Conventional thought would tell me that:

    1) my TDEE is lower than I think, and that I am actually eating at a surplus. If you think that is the case, please tell me what you think my TDEE should be at 5'10", 154, 142 LBM. Intense workouts 4 times a week, work construction, and lead a VERY active lifestyle. (13,000 steps a day average)

    2) I am eating more than I think. I know this is often the case. In mine, it is not. I've been at this a long time, and have it down to a science. I eat a very boring menu with the same breakfast and lunch every day almost, same snacks, and same dessert. I cook my own dinner every night and weigh everything that goes into every recipe. I am aware that there are many things over the course that are impossible to be perfectly accurate on, but I round down to account for this. If anything, I eat less than I log.

    3)Newb gains. I've spent the alast 25 years in the gym, more on than off, and have been at it hard for 2 straight years. I am well past that point.

    4) I am actually gaining fat at the same time. I know this is not the case. Any of you out there who have single digit BF%'s can attest to the fact that you know when you are gaining fat. You can't hide a pound of fat when you only have 12 to begin with. My scale tells me I have gotten leaner, my mirror tells me I've gotten leaner, and my wife tells me I've gotten leaner. If you have never been ripped, it is impossible to refute this point or understand. When I weighed 185, a pound here or there was not visible.

    5) What I am saying is impossible. The internet told me so. In 1993 I ate a entirely fat free diet. You know why, because science told me that if you didn't take in any dietary fat, you couldn't store subcutaneous fat. The point is, regardless of the amount of studies, research, broscience, articles, and prevailing internet "fact", all theories about how each individuals body reacts to specific energy demands and supplies are, while based in science, still somewhat hypothetical.


    So now that I've answered many of the semi educated, yet paradigmatic responses I was likely to get, I will get to my original premis: The Micro Cycle. I have come to believe that by doing 24 hour bulk / cut cycles, one can achieve similar results to the traditional 6 week to 6 month cycles while eating at or below daily maintanance. It is similar to intermittent fasting, but for the purpose of muscle gain, not weght loss. I am sure there are other people out there doing this, so I don't think I have invented anything. I knoiw that Scooby has some similar thoughts, just on a slightly larger scale. This is simply post analysis of my success, and my theory as to how I have been able to acheive it. So here it goes:

    1) Eat just enough welll balanced mix of protein and carbs from the time you wake up until gym time in the afternoon to prevent your body using your muscle for fuel. Usually around 500-600 calories.

    2) Lift with crazy intensity at some point after 3 PM.

    3) Eat 1800-2000 calories of protein rich foods betweeon 5 and 10PM (the actual number of course depend on your TDEE). About 1 1/2 grams of protein per lb of BW and the rest carbs and fat. (I do 40% -40%-20%)

    What your basically doing is cutting for 12 hours and bulking for 12 hours. You're bulking right after your workout so your body has no choice but to use this extra energy to repair the muscles you have destroyed. Your body doesn't have a memory of what it was doing a few hours ago. It's not going to use all that protein to store fat because it's pissed it burned some this morning. Then the next moring it would rather use any fat you have laying around (or carbs of course) for energy than reap your muscles. While over the course of the 24 hour period, you're not really eating at a surplus, for that 12 hour period you are, and you hold onto it during the next 12 hour period by sustaining a level of energy intake just enough to prevent more losses than you gained. I think the key is finding the "sweet spot" for calories to prevent muscle loss earlier in the day. I do 200 for breakfast and 400ish for lunch.I have been playing with these numbers recently to see how many I can actually eat without gaining fat. The more the merrier obviously.

    I have really dumbed down the process for the sake of keeping this post short and sweet, but if any of you out there have similar experinces or opinions on the viability of my theory, please share. If you are a broscience contrarian who doesn't quite know enough to realize they really don't know anything, than please refer to my five earlier points and they will likely address anything you are about to type.

    You forgot that you're using BIA to determine bf% which is practically worthless

    and your micro cycle is like IF and their claims
  • DrMAvDPhD
    DrMAvDPhD Posts: 2,097 Member
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    1. Most BF% measurements are bogus.

    2. You can gain fat and go down in body fat percentage if you gain more muscle than fat (possible for brand new to lifting young men). If you originally weight 125 pounds with 100 pounds of muscle and 25 pounds of fat, you'd have a bf% of 20%. You then gained 8 pounds, 7 of which are muscle and 1 is fat because you are super stellar like that, your new bf% is 19.5%

    Option 1 is much more likely.
  • waldo56
    waldo56 Posts: 1,861 Member
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    Eh, recomping is a real effect, its just hideously inefficient. Gaining 6-7 lbs in 8 months while leaning out slightly (so maybe 8-9 lbs muscle gain tops, with a few pounds fat loss) in 8 months would qualify as hideously inefficient for a male, especially one that doesn't have a lot of bulking experience under their belt.

    Eat 200 more calories a day, and be willing to cut for 2-4 weeks, and you can accomplish the exact same results in half the time.
  • shmoony
    shmoony Posts: 237 Member
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    Eh, recomping is a real effect, its just hideously inefficient. Gaining 6-7 lbs in 8 months while leaning out slightly (so maybe 8-9 lbs muscle gain tops, with a few pounds fat loss) in 8 months would qualify as hideously inefficient for a male, especially one that doesn't have a lot of bulking experience under their belt.

    Eat 200 more calories a day, and be willing to cut for 2-4 weeks, and you can accomplish the exact same results in half the time.

    While I agree that it would go faster. My method seems to work without A) ever having to gain fat, and B) having to think about when to bulk and when to cut. It's just a lifestyle.

    As far as the bf% is concerned, it doesn't really matter if my measurements are perfectly accurate as long as they are accurate relative to previous ones.
  • eric_sg61
    eric_sg61 Posts: 2,925 Member
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    Eh, recomping is a real effect, its just hideously inefficient. Gaining 6-7 lbs in 8 months while leaning out slightly (so maybe 8-9 lbs muscle gain tops, with a few pounds fat loss) in 8 months would qualify as hideously inefficient for a male, especially one that doesn't have a lot of bulking experience under their belt.

    Eat 200 more calories a day, and be willing to cut for 2-4 weeks, and you can accomplish the exact same results in half the time.

    While I agree that it would go faster. My method seems to work without A) ever having to gain fat, and B) having to think about when to bulk and when to cut. It's just a lifestyle.

    As far as the bf% is concerned, it doesn't really matter if my measurements are perfectly accurate as long as they are accurate relative to previous ones.
    Your never going to gain muscle without some fat, and your "method" sounds like a great way to spin your wheels. Are you gonna post pics of your transformation like everyone asked you in your "Debunking the Myth" thread?
  • NRBreit
    NRBreit Posts: 319 Member
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    Nevermind (considering OP's last thread on subject).
  • SteveJWatson
    SteveJWatson Posts: 1,225 Member
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    1) my TDEE is lower than I think, and that I am actually eating at a surplus. If you think that is the case, please tell me what you think my TDEE should be at 5'10", 154, 142 LBM. Intense workouts 4 times a week, work construction, and lead a VERY active lifestyle. (13,000 steps a day average)

    Its basically this. Estimates are estimates based around formulae to fit a generalised model. Everybodys TDEE/FCR (for those of you not familiar with animal feed science FCR = Food conversion ratio) is different. What you have managed to do is determine your own TDEE experimentally, which is always going to be more tailored to you. Sounds like you have been on a slow recomp.
  • mustgetmuscles1
    mustgetmuscles1 Posts: 3,346 Member
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    Congrats on your lean bulk. Not sure why you think you have cracked the secret code on this though.
  • Frazzzl3
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    Dirty Bulk is the way forward
  • ndj1979
    ndj1979 Posts: 29,139 Member
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    aren't you the same guy that said you increased muscle while eating in a deficit…but then later admitted that you were eating in a surplus….
  • Frazzzl3
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    na
  • BeccaBollons
    BeccaBollons Posts: 652 Member
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    Bump











    Just because.
  • jwdieter
    jwdieter Posts: 2,582 Member
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    Calculators show generally between 2400-3000 TDEE for OP's starting age, height, and weight. OP usually eats 2400-3000 calories, according to his logs. Ended up eating a slight surplus and gained < 1 lb / month. So either there's a perfectly reasonable explanation, or he's tricked his body into burning fat in the morning and adding muscle in the afternoon. Take your pick.

    Like me, OP has no visible body fat. Not sure why people are asking for evidence of this, when his avatar is right there.
  • sijomial
    sijomial Posts: 19,811 Member
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    You are doing a slow recomp at a tiny calorie surplus following a semi Leangains eating pattern.
    If you want to work out your actual TDEE just do some mathematics based on your intake and weight gain over that time peiod.

    That you don't match TDEE estimators is just tough - they are just averages and if your intake and burn numbers are accurate then you are an outlier, it's not really that big a deal.

    I'm doing a slow recomp at maintenance - nothing special about that either, that's what everyone apart from bodybuilders did 30 years ago. You train, you keep an eye on your weight and accept that progress is slow.
  • 3dogsrunning
    3dogsrunning Posts: 27,167 Member
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    In. For science and maths and stuff.
  • delicious_cocktail
    delicious_cocktail Posts: 5,797 Member
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    Intestines.
  • _SABOTEUR_
    _SABOTEUR_ Posts: 6,833 Member
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    In for before and after pics.
  • jofjltncb6
    jofjltncb6 Posts: 34,415 Member
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    In...

    ...because I was in the last one...

    ...might as well be in this one.
  • MrGonzo05
    MrGonzo05 Posts: 1,120 Member
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    Keep it up then.