Why Punishing Junk Food Munchers Assaults Personal Freedom
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I wish more efforts were made towards actually educating people rather than just banning this or that or putting some inordinate tax on something or other because it's "bad." As a general rule, education tends to lead to better overall decision making.0
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Solution (which we are slowly migrating to):
Let people who don't smoke, get obese, etc. be in their own group. Likewise for those that smoke, etc. in their own group.
Result:
Members of each group have like risks and like costs.
Those who wish to die early after multiple heart surgeries, who end up on an iron lung due to smoking can pay for those costs.0 -
Do we want to live in a nation where smoking is universally outlawed? Where the only food option is health food? Where citizens are required to spend a certain amount of time in the gym and it's all regulated and monitored by the government and large corporations?
Do I want to live in a nation where no one is smoking, where everyone eats healthier and exercises?
Uhhh, I know this might sound bad but....
yes
So, what is healthy food? What foods should be banned, and why? What is an acceptable portion size, and how will that be monitored in a private home? Rationing, perhaps? How much exercise should everyone get a day? What kind of exercise? How do you monitor it, and how many federal agencies need to be created or expanded to do so?0 -
I think it is fine if someone wants to kill themselves early with high medical bills. No banning, no rationing, no etc.
Just don't make me help pay for their lack of personal responsibility.0 -
Interesting article, thats like Mayor Bloomberg in NYC banning sugary drink I think 20zs or larger {maybe 16} but any one can leave the city and then drink a bigger portion of it...Do I agree to his new law? To an extent I think itll help people make healthier choices but like I said its not that hard to cross a bridge to go somewhere else to get that sugary drink
Are you sure about that, I herd that soda companies made more money. as people were buying more and more of the 16 once bottles.0 -
I wish more efforts were made towards actually educating people rather than just banning this or that or putting some inordinate tax on something or other because it's "bad." As a general rule, education tends to lead to better overall decision making.
A big part of the problem here is there's a multi-billion dollar industry dedicated to distributing misinformation on eating and food choice. Government can try to out-shout that, or influence choices through taxation.0 -
Do we want to live in a nation where smoking is universally outlawed? Where the only food option is health food? Where citizens are required to spend a certain amount of time in the gym and it's all regulated and monitored by the government and large corporations?
Do I want to live in a nation where no one is smoking, where everyone eats healthier and exercises?
Uhhh, I know this might sound bad but....
yes
So, what is healthy food? What foods should be banned, and why? What is an acceptable portion size, and how will that be monitored in a private home? Rationing, perhaps? How much exercise should everyone get a day? What kind of exercise? How do you monitor it, and how many federal agencies need to be created or expanded to do so?
Hell I dont know :laugh:0 -
You should know that what costs insurance companies the most is not smokers or fatties dying early. That actually saves them a lot of money. You don't have to pay for any medical visits for dead people.
It's people who live a long life that actually cost the most. Because the last 20-30 years of their lives are full of hospital visits, medications, specialists, etc. Someone living into their 80's or 90's costs way more than someone dying in their 60's.
So now...it's your rates that are higher and smokers and fatties have lower bills. Sure you still want to play this game?
Those who live longer pay more premiums. Those who don't, go to the hospital as soon as they have a heart attack or can't breath, racking up 10s of thousands in expenses, which won't be covered by the premiums they pay because they will live a long life (you say they die early, I say they die earlier after huge medical expenses).
Your position, on the surface would seem to hold merit. Please provide references to the studies you cite so I (and others) can look beneath the surface of what you profess.0 -
As long as you keep taking your Soma you won't care where you live...Is it a personal freedom that healthy people in a health insurance group have to pay higher premiums to cover the cost of the unhealthy people in the group? Stated differently, is another person's personal freedom to be irresponsible with their health (and thus medical expenses) the reason people who take responsibility to be healthy have to pay more for their health insurance?
A frequently quoted reason for invading people's liberties.
"Your use of insurance raises my insurance premiums. Therefore you have to stop what you're doing that's causing you to use insurance."
How the companies must laugh when they watch us turn on each other because they're screwing us over.
Sick people really raise the cost of insurance. As does advertising costs. And the exorbitant salaries of the executive board. Do we attack and try to ban these issues? No. We go after each other.
Do we want to live in a nation where smoking is universally outlawed? Where the only food option is health food? Where citizens are required to spend a certain amount of time in the gym and it's all regulated and monitored by the government and large corporations?
I know I don't. If that means some people smoke, some people are fat, and my insurance is a few bucks higher than it would be otherwise, well I'm willing to pay that price to feel like I'm free to live my life as I see fit.0 -
Well, seeing how healthy foods (organic veg, lean meats, whole grain products and supplements) are so vastly more expensive than KD and pepsi, I'd say that healthy people are often the ones who are really being punished.0
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As long as you keep taking your Soma you won't care where you live...Is it a personal freedom that healthy people in a health insurance group have to pay higher premiums to cover the cost of the unhealthy people in the group? Stated differently, is another person's personal freedom to be irresponsible with their health (and thus medical expenses) the reason people who take responsibility to be healthy have to pay more for their health insurance?
A frequently quoted reason for invading people's liberties.
"Your use of insurance raises my insurance premiums. Therefore you have to stop what you're doing that's causing you to use insurance."
How the companies must laugh when they watch us turn on each other because they're screwing us over.
Sick people really raise the cost of insurance. As does advertising costs. And the exorbitant salaries of the executive board. Do we attack and try to ban these issues? No. We go after each other.
Do we want to live in a nation where smoking is universally outlawed? Where the only food option is health food? Where citizens are required to spend a certain amount of time in the gym and it's all regulated and monitored by the government and large corporations?
I know I don't. If that means some people smoke, some people are fat, and my insurance is a few bucks higher than it would be otherwise, well I'm willing to pay that price to feel like I'm free to live my life as I see fit.
Good point, although too much soma can kill you too... but in the meantime no one will question what they are told to eat or do.0 -
Is it a personal freedom that healthy people in a health insurance group have to pay higher premiums to cover the cost of the unhealthy people in the group? Stated differently, is another person's personal freedom to be irresponsible with their health (and thus medical expenses) the reason people who take responsibility to be healthy have to pay more for their health insurance?
Forcing people into group insurance is not personal freedom.
Hence why an NHS is a good idea...... just saying
Anti-NHS propaganda in the US often vastly overstates its cons and ignores the pros. Although that said, the NHS is paid for by taxpayer money, so it's not entirely different from an insurance-based system other than that the amount you pay for it depends on your income, rather than which company you pay through and what your health is like.
I would prefer to eliminate all HMOs, PPOs, etc. and go back to how it was when health care was affordable for all. But yes, NHS is much better than group insurance.0 -
Is it a personal freedom that healthy people in a health insurance group have to pay higher premiums to cover the cost of the unhealthy people in the group? Stated differently, is another person's personal freedom to be irresponsible with their health (and thus medical expenses) the reason people who take responsibility to be healthy have to pay more for their health insurance?
I am personally so tired of this trope. First, if you look at many studies, increased costs over time are more than offset by earlier death rates for smokers and the obese. Secondly, the whole point of insurance is to spread the risk--the obese person may have a higher risk of diabetes and heart disease, the person who competes in extreme sports has a higher risk of serious injury/disability. The risk is spread over the entire pool, and I am not willing to give up my freedom to possibly save a few pennies. I find it sad that so many people are already giving up freedoms (i.e. "voluntary" health screening/monitoring by health insurance companies, driving with a black box for car insurance companies, etc.) At the end of the day, whatever pittance you save is nothing compared to the increase in profits for the insurance company, so don't think you are doing them any favors.
True. My husband has Crohn's and is on Medicare. So is everyone pissed that they have to pay for his health care?0 -
Do we want to live in a nation where smoking is universally outlawed?
No doubt! :laugh:
We have enough violence in the streets from the current drug war. :smokin:0 -
Grownups should be free to make their own decisions about their food, I want to eat healthy, but not because I am taxed into it, that's demeaning and disempowering.
I feel the same way about Beluga caviar. I want to give my dog the highest quality fish eggs, but it's kinda expensive, and then I feel bad because I don't make the decision that would make me happiest. Makes me angry. I should be free to do what I want!
Is Beluga caviar illegal? Like Cuban cigars? If so, that's retarded.0 -
Just don't make me help pay for their lack of personal responsibility.You are free to decide what to do with the resources you have. That is a huge amount of freedom, both to have moderate resources and to decide how to use them. People forget that freedom is not synonomous with entitlement.
Freedom and responsibility go hand-in-hand. You can not have one without the other.0 -
I actually don't mind this idea. I live in NYC and I'm kind of disappointed that Bloomberg's soda ban was shot down. Specifically, fat people in New York City take up more room on the subway and less people can sit down. -.-
I don't think it's fair that healthy people should pay for sick, obese people when their sickness is their own fault. Between insurance costs and taxes, I don't want to pay for the health problems of fat people who make poor food choices. It's not personal freedom if it affects others negatively.
First of all, not all sick people are obese and not all obese people are sick. Based on your logic, healthy people perhaps shouldn't have to pay for thin people with cancer (for example, smokers who develop lung cancer). Please be careful of generalizations. You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but please try to use some logic and some compassion. One day you may find yourself old, sick and obese.0 -
Good response. I sometimes find myself in the same situation, but not this time. Here are my references on my position(at least for the smoking thang'):You're right to ask, it was a study I read years ago and now for the life of me I can't find it. So without evidence to backup my claim I withdraw my statement. I keep looking but it's hard to sort through all the articles that just blame obesity/smoking without taking other factors into account.
Always ask for evidence folks.
If you're liberal.....http://www.nbcnews.com/health/smoking-employees-cost-6-000-year-more-study-finds-6C10182631
If you're conservative........http://www.forbes.com/sites/susanadams/2013/06/05/every-smoker-costs-an-employer-6000-a-year-really/
If you have the medical/economic background, have a British Medical Journal Subscription, and want to see the original study......http://tobaccocontrol.bmj.com/content/early/2013/05/25/tobaccocontrol-2012-050888
P.S.-This study is a survey and analysis of lots of prior studies.0
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