Why Punishing Junk Food Munchers Assaults Personal Freedom

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  • Codilee87
    Codilee87 Posts: 509 Member
    Well, seeing how healthy foods (organic veg, lean meats, whole grain products and supplements) are so vastly more expensive than KD and pepsi, I'd say that healthy people are often the ones who are really being punished.
  • kateanne27
    kateanne27 Posts: 275 Member
    Is it a personal freedom that healthy people in a health insurance group have to pay higher premiums to cover the cost of the unhealthy people in the group? Stated differently, is another person's personal freedom to be irresponsible with their health (and thus medical expenses) the reason people who take responsibility to be healthy have to pay more for their health insurance?

    A frequently quoted reason for invading people's liberties.

    "Your use of insurance raises my insurance premiums. Therefore you have to stop what you're doing that's causing you to use insurance."

    How the companies must laugh when they watch us turn on each other because they're screwing us over.

    Sick people really raise the cost of insurance. As does advertising costs. And the exorbitant salaries of the executive board. Do we attack and try to ban these issues? No. We go after each other.

    Do we want to live in a nation where smoking is universally outlawed? Where the only food option is health food? Where citizens are required to spend a certain amount of time in the gym and it's all regulated and monitored by the government and large corporations?

    I know I don't. If that means some people smoke, some people are fat, and my insurance is a few bucks higher than it would be otherwise, well I'm willing to pay that price to feel like I'm free to live my life as I see fit.
    As long as you keep taking your Soma you won't care where you live...

    Good point, although too much soma can kill you too... but in the meantime no one will question what they are told to eat or do.
  • WendyTerry420
    WendyTerry420 Posts: 13,274 Member
    Is it a personal freedom that healthy people in a health insurance group have to pay higher premiums to cover the cost of the unhealthy people in the group? Stated differently, is another person's personal freedom to be irresponsible with their health (and thus medical expenses) the reason people who take responsibility to be healthy have to pay more for their health insurance?

    Forcing people into group insurance is not personal freedom.

    Hence why an NHS is a good idea...... just saying :smile: Anti-NHS propaganda in the US often vastly overstates its cons and ignores the pros. Although that said, the NHS is paid for by taxpayer money, so it's not entirely different from an insurance-based system other than that the amount you pay for it depends on your income, rather than which company you pay through and what your health is like.

    I would prefer to eliminate all HMOs, PPOs, etc. and go back to how it was when health care was affordable for all. But yes, NHS is much better than group insurance.
  • WendyTerry420
    WendyTerry420 Posts: 13,274 Member
    Is it a personal freedom that healthy people in a health insurance group have to pay higher premiums to cover the cost of the unhealthy people in the group? Stated differently, is another person's personal freedom to be irresponsible with their health (and thus medical expenses) the reason people who take responsibility to be healthy have to pay more for their health insurance?

    I am personally so tired of this trope. First, if you look at many studies, increased costs over time are more than offset by earlier death rates for smokers and the obese. Secondly, the whole point of insurance is to spread the risk--the obese person may have a higher risk of diabetes and heart disease, the person who competes in extreme sports has a higher risk of serious injury/disability. The risk is spread over the entire pool, and I am not willing to give up my freedom to possibly save a few pennies. I find it sad that so many people are already giving up freedoms (i.e. "voluntary" health screening/monitoring by health insurance companies, driving with a black box for car insurance companies, etc.) At the end of the day, whatever pittance you save is nothing compared to the increase in profits for the insurance company, so don't think you are doing them any favors.

    True. My husband has Crohn's and is on Medicare. So is everyone pissed that they have to pay for his health care?
  • WendyTerry420
    WendyTerry420 Posts: 13,274 Member
    Do we want to live in a nation where smoking is universally outlawed?

    No doubt! :laugh:


    We have enough violence in the streets from the current drug war. :smokin:
  • WendyTerry420
    WendyTerry420 Posts: 13,274 Member
    Grownups should be free to make their own decisions about their food, I want to eat healthy, but not because I am taxed into it, that's demeaning and disempowering.

    I feel the same way about Beluga caviar. I want to give my dog the highest quality fish eggs, but it's kinda expensive, and then I feel bad because I don't make the decision that would make me happiest. Makes me angry. I should be free to do what I want!

    Is Beluga caviar illegal? Like Cuban cigars? If so, that's retarded.
  • WendyTerry420
    WendyTerry420 Posts: 13,274 Member
    Just don't make me help pay for their lack of personal responsibility.
    You are free to decide what to do with the resources you have. That is a huge amount of freedom, both to have moderate resources and to decide how to use them. People forget that freedom is not synonomous with entitlement.


    Freedom and responsibility go hand-in-hand. You can not have one without the other.
  • Slaintegrl
    Slaintegrl Posts: 239 Member
    I actually don't mind this idea. I live in NYC and I'm kind of disappointed that Bloomberg's soda ban was shot down. Specifically, fat people in New York City take up more room on the subway and less people can sit down. -.-

    I don't think it's fair that healthy people should pay for sick, obese people when their sickness is their own fault. Between insurance costs and taxes, I don't want to pay for the health problems of fat people who make poor food choices. It's not personal freedom if it affects others negatively.

    First of all, not all sick people are obese and not all obese people are sick. Based on your logic, healthy people perhaps shouldn't have to pay for thin people with cancer (for example, smokers who develop lung cancer). Please be careful of generalizations. You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but please try to use some logic and some compassion. One day you may find yourself old, sick and obese.
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  • GadgetGuy2
    GadgetGuy2 Posts: 291 Member
    You're right to ask, it was a study I read years ago and now for the life of me I can't find it. So without evidence to backup my claim I withdraw my statement. I keep looking but it's hard to sort through all the articles that just blame obesity/smoking without taking other factors into account.

    Always ask for evidence folks.
    Good response. I sometimes find myself in the same situation, but not this time. Here are my references on my position(at least for the smoking thang'):

    If you're liberal.....http://www.nbcnews.com/health/smoking-employees-cost-6-000-year-more-study-finds-6C10182631

    If you're conservative........http://www.forbes.com/sites/susanadams/2013/06/05/every-smoker-costs-an-employer-6000-a-year-really/

    If you have the medical/economic background, have a British Medical Journal Subscription, and want to see the original study......http://tobaccocontrol.bmj.com/content/early/2013/05/25/tobaccocontrol-2012-050888

    P.S.-This study is a survey and analysis of lots of prior studies.
  • GingerLolita
    GingerLolita Posts: 738 Member
    My logic is that obese people make themselves sick, so it's their fault. No one gives themselves cancer (except smokers), so it's not their fault. If I smoked and consumed immense amounts of sugary drinks and processed foods, giving myself lung cancer and diabetes, I wouldn't expect others to pay for it.

    Also, I'd love to live in a place where people can't blow smoke all over my face as I'm walking down the street.

    And soda companies making more money due to the NYC soda ban? That's false because the soda ban never happened. It's officially been shot down.
  • WendyTerry420
    WendyTerry420 Posts: 13,274 Member
    My logic is that obese people make themselves sick, so it's their fault. No one gives themselves cancer (except smokers), so it's not their fault. If I smoked and consumed immense amounts of sugary drinks and processed foods, giving myself lung cancer and diabetes, I wouldn't expect others to pay for it.

    Also, I'd love to live in a place where people can't blow smoke all over my face as I'm walking down the street.

    And soda companies making more money due to the NYC soda ban? That's false because the soda ban never happened. It's officially been shot down.

    Easy fix: don't make ANYone pay for ANYone else. When I was a kid, no one was forced to pay for health care for others, and it was affordable for all. A doctor's visit was only $20.


    Banning smoking just moves another substance to the black market.