My Skinny Fat plan
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Eating your BMR is not going to get you to gain muscle or fat. Eating at maintnance or at a very minimal TDEE deficit is.
Exactly what I was thinking. You are not going to bulk up and add muscle unless you are eating at your TDEE or very close to it. In fact, if you were doing a true "bulk" you would eat above your TDEE level. The rest of your plan sounds good though, just increase calories for sure.0 -
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Ok, thanks for the great advice. The thing iis, I log my exercise from day to day so MFP tells me my deficit. Therefore I don't think I need to calculate my exercise again into my TDEE.
I guess did look better 20 lbs heavier -- except my thighs. I'm really wanting to regain the muscle but not the fat. I guess that's my main goal. But like you've said I have a fat phobia :P slow sounds like the way to go.
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So you can't use the TDEE Method and MFP Method of calculating your exercise calories at the same time.
If you decided to go with TDEE you need to incorporate your level of activity and eat the amount of calories it tells you. Do not track exercise calories with MFP.
If you want to use the MFP Method you need to set your calories to maintenance and eat back ALL or at least most of your exercise calories.
You should not be at a deficit if you want to actually build muscle. If you need to increase to maintenance/TDEE slowly.0 -
Ok, thanks for the great advice. The thing iis, I log my exercise from day to day so MFP tells me my deficit. Therefore I don't think I need to calculate my exercise again into my TDEE.
I guess did look better 20 lbs heavier -- except my thighs. I'm really wanting to regain the muscle but not the fat. I guess that's my main goal. But like you've said I have a fat phobia :P slow sounds like the way to go.
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So you can't use the TDEE Method and MFP Method of calculating your exercise calories at the same time.
If you decided to go with TDEE you need to incorporate your level of activity and eat the amount of calories it tells you. Do not track exercise calories with MFP.
If you want to use the MFP Method you need to set your calories to maintenance and eat back ALL or at least most of your exercise calories.
You should not be at a deficit if you want to actually build muscle. If you need to increase to maintenance/TDEE slowly.
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Thanks, that makes a lot of sense. I will use the MFP way. To be at a deficit doesn't mean you're in the red, though, right? To be at a deficit means that at the end of the day you still have x amount of cals to go?0 -
I haven't thoroughly read all replies so this may have already been mentioned, but..
In terms of exercise, adding aerobic exercise after lifting only serves to create a greater calorie deficit. This means you will have to eat even more on cardio days to gain weight (which is what needs to happen to build muscle).
Also, doing HIIT on the days between lifting can actually hinder muscle building progress because intense anaerobic exercise is demanding on muscle tissue and therefore it is not getting the recovery time needed in order to grow. You need those rest days between lifting sessions for the muscles to repair and grow, especially once the weights get heavier.0 -
What are your stats? You're 18 so just that alone tells me there is no way your maintenance is anywhere near 1400 if you're working out 5x a week. I'm 37 and a mom and my maintenance is 1900. As the others said, if you want to gain muscle you'll have to bulk, i.e., eat more than your maintenance while lifting. You will gain some fat, but there is no way to avoid that...once you gain and build the muscle you want to build (6 months or more) you will cut calories and lose the fat. That's the only real way to do it. Also I would stop doing so much cardio unless you're gonna eat more to support it (seems a waste to me). Good luck!0
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Thanks, that makes a lot of sense. I will use the MFP way. To be at a deficit doesn't mean you're in the red, though, right? To be at a deficit means that at the end of the day you still have x amount of cals to go?
Right. If the calorie number is red, then you are over - which means you would be at a surplus.
Also, another tip is to remember that most people do this kind of cyclical. For example, 8 weeks of eating at or above maintenance and then 8 weeks with a terget to lose 1lb per week - hence the bulk and cut terms that people use.
It's not like you will gain fat forever if you up your calories - you can always lose it. The goal is to end up, over time, with more muscle and less fat.
Also, I didn't see anyone else mention this but you only really need about 1g / lb of bodyweight to support your muscle growth. Higher is optional and you shouldn't do anything drastic like eat 80% protein. A simple way to handle it is eat, at a minimum, 125g of protein every day. This would only be 500 calories. Then eat whatever else you like for the remainder of your calorie goal.1. Eat mostly protein (my diet is split three ways equally between all three macros now)! Eat 1300 cals a day. Which is my BMR.0 -
First off, you look great where you're at! Congrats on taking it to the next level. I'm gonna make a BIG assumption here, you initially said, "gain muscle," which has an entirely different connotation than, "bulking."
My assumption is that you'd like to see more of the muscles you've worked on, not look like a power lifter. If powerlifter IS your goal, cool, forget what I'm about to say.
However, at your size given the former, not latter goal, putting on lean mass is mostly a no brainer. (Not easy) So you've been on a weight loss diet that has apparently led to a loss in muscle and fat. Without looking at your macros I cant tell for sure but the muscle sparing signaling that's missing is more likely coming from your training than your eating.
A guy trying to bulk... on the lines of 5+ kg. is going to gain some fat while doing so. A lady like yourself, who I'm guessing wants to see more definition and maybe a bit more mass, is going to be well served by adding muscle. Remember muscle is hungry, gaining muscle will lead to some fat loss in a person your size if we're focused on performance and strength.
If I were you I'd talk to a trainer and focus on muscular contractions in your lifting routine. It's an often overlooked aspect of resistance training. We think: welp I lifted it, therefore my muscles contracted. Yes, but could you have contracted them harder, with more intention? Probably. Learning to hit those contractions hard is a great plateau killer and should help hit the signaling you need to spare/gain muscle while maintaining/losing fat.
Good luck!0 -
im also trying too gain muscle and not fat so confussing and hard but all this advice is great
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That makes so much sense, and inspiring too! I will definitely be more mindful of how I lift weights now!First off, you look great where you're at! Congrats on taking it to the next level. I'm gonna make a BIG assumption here, you initially said, "gain muscle," which has an entirely different connotation than, "bulking."
My assumption is that you'd like to see more of the muscles you've worked on, not look like a power lifter. If powerlifter IS your goal, cool, forget what I'm about to say.
However, at your size given the former, not latter goal, putting on lean mass is mostly a no brainer. (Not easy) So you've been on a weight loss diet that has apparently led to a loss in muscle and fat. Without looking at your macros I cant tell for sure but the muscle sparing signaling that's missing is more likely coming from your training than your eating.
A guy trying to bulk... on the lines of 5+ kg. is going to gain some fat while doing so. A lady like yourself, who I'm guessing wants to see more definition and maybe a bit more mass, is going to be well served by adding muscle. Remember muscle is hungry, gaining muscle will lead to some fat loss in a person your size if we're focused on performance and strength.
If I were you I'd talk to a trainer and focus on muscular contractions in your lifting routine. It's an often overlooked aspect of resistance training. We think: welp I lifted it, therefore my muscles contracted. Yes, but could you have contracted them harder, with more intention? Probably. Learning to hit those contractions hard is a great plateau killer and should help hit the signaling you need to spare/gain muscle while maintaining/losing fat.
Good luck!
Also, about the 1300 cals thing, that is my BMR and the reason I use that is because I want to input my exercise on an individual basis, rather than guessing my activity level. I say my TDEE is about 1400 because usually I burn about 100 cals in a day. USUALLY. Sometimes more sometimes less.
So yesterday I ate back my exercise calories. And one more ! Let's hope this works.0 -
I just wanted to add that if that picture is you, and it's current, I don't think you should be thinking that you're skinny fat. That term generally refers to normal weight obesity - when someone's bmi is in the healthy range, but their body fat percentage is not. You don't look skinny fat at all. Just going from that photo, you look like you have a healthy level of body fat. Look look normal, in fact a bit healthier/fitter/more athletic than "average". It's fine to have goals to get a little leaner or more defined, but don't go thinking there's a problem where there isn't one!0
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That makes so much sense, and inspiring too! I will definitely be more mindful of how I lift weights now!
Also, about the 1300 cals thing, that is my BMR and the reason I use that is because I want to input my exercise on an individual basis, rather than guessing my activity level. I say my TDEE is about 1400 because usually I burn about 100 cals in a day. USUALLY. Sometimes more sometimes less.
So yesterday I ate back my exercise calories. And one more ! Let's hope this works.
Just wanted to clarify something for you...your BMR is your basal metabolic rate - what your body would burn if you spent all day lying down in bed doing absolutely nothing, so basically just the energy needed to carry out basic bodily/organ functions. Your TDEE includes your BMR, and what you burn doing exercise (which you say is about 100), but also your NON-exercise activity (NEAT). The NEAT burn includes stuff like sitting, walking around, standing in the kitchen making lunch, etc. This value is not "0" for you, unless you're comatose. Your TDEE is therefore much higher than 1400. You might consider trying out a TDEE calculator to get a more realistic estimate of the amount of fuel your body actually needs in a day.0 -
That makes so much sense, and inspiring too! I will definitely be more mindful of how I lift weights now!
Also, about the 1300 cals thing, that is my BMR and the reason I use that is because I want to input my exercise on an individual basis, rather than guessing my activity level. I say my TDEE is about 1400 because usually I burn about 100 cals in a day. USUALLY. Sometimes more sometimes less.
So yesterday I ate back my exercise calories. And one more ! Let's hope this works.
Just wanted to clarify something for you...your BMR is your basal metabolic rate - what your body would burn if you spent all day lying down in bed doing absolutely nothing, so basically just the energy needed to carry out basic bodily/organ functions. Your TDEE includes your BMR, and what you burn doing exercise (which you say is about 100), but also your NON-exercise activity (NEAT). The NEAT burn includes stuff like sitting, walking around, standing in the kitchen making lunch, etc. This value is not "0" for you, unless you're comatose. Your TDEE is therefore much higher than 1400. You might consider trying out a TDEE calculator to get a more realistic estimate of the amount of fuel your body actually needs in a day.
+1 OP you need to work out the math correctly otherwise you're just spinning wheels. Take the TDEE advice, it's good advice.0 -
That makes so much sense, and inspiring too! I will definitely be more mindful of how I lift weights now!
Also, about the 1300 cals thing, that is my BMR and the reason I use that is because I want to input my exercise on an individual basis, rather than guessing my activity level. I say my TDEE is about 1400 because usually I burn about 100 cals in a day. USUALLY. Sometimes more sometimes less.
So yesterday I ate back my exercise calories. And one more ! Let's hope this works.
Just wanted to clarify something for you...your BMR is your basal metabolic rate - what your body would burn if you spent all day lying down in bed doing absolutely nothing, so basically just the energy needed to carry out basic bodily/organ functions. Your TDEE includes your BMR, and what you burn doing exercise (which you say is about 100), but also your NON-exercise activity (NEAT). The NEAT burn includes stuff like sitting, walking around, standing in the kitchen making lunch, etc. This value is not "0" for you, unless you're comatose. Your TDEE is therefore much higher than 1400. You might consider trying out a TDEE calculator to get a more realistic estimate of the amount of fuel your body actually needs in a day.
+1 OP you need to work out the math correctly otherwise you're just spinning wheels. Take the TDEE advice, it's good advice.
+2 try this one: http://scoobysworkshop.com/accurate-calorie-calculator/
either include the lifting and running and then don't eat back workout calories or use the sedentary function and eat back the workout calories mfp gives you.0 -
Thank you jester, cmeirun, aly and nunu!
Maybe I had a wrong idea of the term skinny fat
all I know is I want a lower body fat percentage but not a lower weight.
I did use that calculator and it says my TDEE with NEAT (thanks for that definition, cmeirun) is 1648. That's huge! 348 extra calories just by sitting around in school all day? Phew!
Ok, thank you all so much for your help, it motivates me to slowly increase my caloric intake!0 -
As a former skinny fat who mini bulks and cuts I did it like this. Cut (too fast unfortunately) as much bf until I was stupidly low weight. I was experimenting with running fast times and yes it made me run faster, but I felt unfeminine and my boobs looked blah.
Found MY personal maintenance level by plotting and averaging all my numbers. Came up with 1750 BEFORE adding exercise calories. Worked out all my exercise burns with a heart rate monitor. Always eat them back.
For my bulk I added 2/300 cals a day and heavy lifted 3 x a week for 6 weeks. Gained 3/4 lbs and was planning to do a very small deficit to lose the extra body fat I gained.
Here's the unexpected thing. My body completely changed! I still fit into my tiny jeans, but my boobs came back and my sinewy muscle got a nice smoothness over it. So I went from being hippy, curvy, chubby thighs and not very in shape at 132lb to sinewy and skinny at 123lb to firm, younger, slimmer bottom and thighs at 130lb. I finally am happy, and am just trying to maintain it now which is still very hard work. If you see my pics you'll notice the body composition changes.
Good luck!0 -
Great work, and what a great story! Very inspiring. :flowerforyou:Here's the unexpected thing. My body completely changed! I still fit into my tiny jeans, but my boobs came back and my sinewy muscle got a nice smoothness over it. So I went from being hippy, curvy, chubby thighs and not very in shape at 132lb to sinewy and skinny at 123lb to firm, younger, slimmer bottom and thighs at 130lb. I finally am happy, and am just trying to maintain it now which is still very hard work. If you see my pics you'll notice the body composition changes.
Good luck!0 -
Thank you jester, cmeirun, aly and nunu!
Maybe I had a wrong idea of the term skinny fat all I know is I want a lower body fat percentage but not a lower weight.
I did use that calculator and it says my TDEE with NEAT (thanks for that definition, cmeirun) is 1648. That's huge! 348 extra calories just by sitting around in school all day? Phew!
Ok, thank you all so much for your help, it motivates me to slowly increase my caloric intake!
Maintaining weight and reducing body fat is definitely possible. If you eat near (at/slightly below) your maintenance intake (i.e. at your TDEE) and LIFT (progressive resistance training/weight lifting program), you can do what's called a recomposition (reduce fat, gain muscle). It can be very slow to put muscle on this way, but you don't gain much fat in the process. The other alternative is to cut down a little more, then do a bulk - eat ABOVE maintenance to specifically put on muscle mass - this adds a bit of fat, too, which is why you generally want to start a bulk at a lower body fat %.
Just to give you an example, here is me at the same weight at two different points over the past year. In the photo on the left, I had lost 35 lbs doing only cardio. I lost another 10 or so, while lifting weights - I lost more body fat, retained the muscle I had, and possibly enjoyed a lb or two of newbie muscle gains (middle). Then starting in September I started bulking and the photo on the right is where I am now - the same weight that I was back in January in the first picture. In my current photo I'm a little fluffier than the photo in the middle, but my lean body mass is also higher than in either of the other two photos. You can see that with time you can create pretty big changes in your body composition - the biggest keys to this (in my opinion) are progressive lifting, adequate protein, and not being too aggressive either with the deficit while cutting or the surplus while bulking.
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Thank you jester, cmeirun, aly and nunu!
Maybe I had a wrong idea of the term skinny fat all I know is I want a lower body fat percentage but not a lower weight.
I did use that calculator and it says my TDEE with NEAT (thanks for that definition, cmeirun) is 1648. That's huge! 348 extra calories just by sitting around in school all day? Phew!
Ok, thank you all so much for your help, it motivates me to slowly increase my caloric intake!
Maintaining weight and reducing body fat is definitely possible. If you eat near (at/slightly below) your maintenance intake (i.e. at your TDEE) and LIFT (progressive resistance training/weight lifting program), you can do what's called a recomposition (reduce fat, gain muscle). It can be very slow to put muscle on this way, but you don't gain much fat in the process. The other alternative is to cut down a little more, then do a bulk - eat ABOVE maintenance to specifically put on muscle mass - this adds a bit of fat, too, which is why you generally want to start a bulk at a lower body fat %.
Just to give you an example, here is me at the same weight at three different points over the past year. In the photo on the left, I had lost 35 lbs doing only cardio. I lost another 10 or so, while lifting weights - I lost more body fat, retained the muscle I had, and possibly enjoyed a lb or two of newbie muscle gains (middle). Then starting in September I started bulking and the photo on the right is where I am now - the same weight that I was back in February in the first picture. In my current photo I'm a little fluffier than the photo in the middle, but my lean body mass is also higher than in either of the other two photos. You can see that with time you can create pretty big changes in your body composition - the biggest keys to this (in my opinion) are progressive lifting, adequate protein, and not being too aggressive either with the deficit while cutting or the surplus while bulking.
Beautiful post and amazing pics.Do you have a higher BMR in the 3rd picture than the 1st? Also, you look years younger too...0 -
Beautiful post and amazing pics.Do you have a higher BMR in the 3rd picture than the 1st? Also, you look years younger too...
Thank you Yes, my BMR is definitely higher now than it used to be. At the time of the first picture I was doing cardio 5x/week and eating about 1600-1800 calories every day and losing about 0.5-1 lb/week. I actually noticed a huge change in the amount I needed to eat within a month of starting to lift, even though I reduced my cardio by a several hours a week. Based on my intake and weight changes over the summer/fall, I figure I'll probably be able to cut after this bulk at the same rate (.5-1lb/week) eating in the range of about 2200-2500/day once I add a little cardio back in on top of my lifting. I've completely cut out cardio for this current bulk or I'd have to eat like 3000 calories a day to gain :laugh: 0 -
Wow thank you for sharing! I am definitely up for hard work!As a former skinny fat who mini bulks and cuts I did it like this. Cut (too fast unfortunately) as much bf until I was stupidly low weight. I was experimenting with running fast times and yes it made me run faster, but I felt unfeminine and my boobs looked blah.
Found MY personal maintenance level by plotting and averaging all my numbers. Came up with 1750 BEFORE adding exercise calories. Worked out all my exercise burns with a heart rate monitor. Always eat them back.
For my bulk I added 2/300 cals a day and heavy lifted 3 x a week for 6 weeks. Gained 3/4 lbs and was planning to do a very small deficit to lose the extra body fat I gained.
Here's the unexpected thing. My body completely changed! I still fit into my tiny jeans, but my boobs came back and my sinewy muscle got a nice smoothness over it. So I went from being hippy, curvy, chubby thighs and not very in shape at 132lb to sinewy and skinny at 123lb to firm, younger, slimmer bottom and thighs at 130lb. I finally am happy, and am just trying to maintain it now which is still very hard work. If you see my pics you'll notice the body composition changes.
Good luck!
@cmeirun thanks for sharing as well. Yes, I've been reading everything on body recomposition that I can possibly get my hands on! Good to know that there's counter evidence against the nay sayers.0
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