Starting Out 300+ - Lose With Weights Not Diet?
thickerella
Posts: 154 Member
I weigh 328 as of today. I've lost 32lbs so far with calorie restriction and exercise.
I read stories like this
http://www.nerdfitness.com/blog/2011/07/21/meet-staci-your-new-powerlifting-super-hero/
Where a woman gained an amazing body eating 3000-4000 calories a day and power lifting.
That sounds SOOOOO much better than cutting calories and spending hours on a stationary bike.
My question is, if I were to duplicate her diet and workouts exactly, would I really lose fat? Or would I just have incredible muscle under all the fat? Should I focus on losing the 150lbs FIRST, THEN body sculpting? Because everything I've read tells me I CANNOT gain muscle while eating at a deficit.
I read stories like this
http://www.nerdfitness.com/blog/2011/07/21/meet-staci-your-new-powerlifting-super-hero/
Where a woman gained an amazing body eating 3000-4000 calories a day and power lifting.
That sounds SOOOOO much better than cutting calories and spending hours on a stationary bike.
My question is, if I were to duplicate her diet and workouts exactly, would I really lose fat? Or would I just have incredible muscle under all the fat? Should I focus on losing the 150lbs FIRST, THEN body sculpting? Because everything I've read tells me I CANNOT gain muscle while eating at a deficit.
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Replies
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people more knowledgeable will come help you, but I just wanted to to say I love your name.
to lose weight you do need to eat at a deficit but it doesnt have to be super drastic. any weight lifting you do while you lose weight will help you retain your muscle.0 -
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There are two subgroups who CAN gain muscle while losing fat. If you are new to fitness with poor muscle tone/composition, you can do both. Also, if you WERE fit and then took an extended break and are just coming back to it ... you will gain muscle while losing fat. I found these two exceptions noted in several very reputable articles that I'm not going to bother hunting down.
I fit into one or another of those and am losing fat AND gaining muscle! I have a body composition scale that confirms this in addition to my appearance and the observations of myself and others.
And you don't have to lift heavy to do it! I can't lift heavy due to hernias that will be repaired when I get to goal weight and I do other forms of strength training with heavy emphasis on resistance and light dumbbells.
It's working! 75 lbs lost eating 2000-2500 calories a day ... in 5 months ... (canceled weight loss surgery, it would interfere with my eating! :drinker: )0 -
So far I have been doing lifting and cardio but my personal trainer has me at high reps/ low weights, and I really think I'd like to do it the other way around. Maybe I'm just a wuss, though, and want to make the whole thing shorter.0
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bumping, because I'm curious about the responses0
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There are two subgroups who CAN gain muscle while losing fat. If you are new to fitness with poor muscle tone/composition, you can do both. Also, if you WERE fit and then took an extended break and are just coming back to it ... you will gain muscle while losing fat. I found these two exceptions noted in several very reputable articles that I'm not going to bother hunting down.
I fit into one or another of those and am losing fat AND gaining muscle! I have a body composition scale that confirms this in addition to my appearance and the observations of myself and others.
And you don't have to lift heavy to do it! I can't lift heavy due to hernias that will be repaired when I get to goal weight and I do other forms of strength training with heavy emphasis on resistance and light dumbbells.
It's working! 75 lbs lost eating 2000-2500 calories a day ... in 5 months ... (canceled weight loss surgery, it would interfere with my eating! :drinker: )
Thank you! I am in the category of - I was fat but STRONG 4 years ago before I was in an accident where I was disabled. Now I want to be strong again. I have very low muscle tone, especially in the leg that was injured.0 -
I weigh 328 as of today. I've lost 32lbs so far with calorie restriction and exercise.
I read stories like this
http://www.nerdfitness.com/blog/2011/07/21/meet-staci-your-new-powerlifting-super-hero/
Where a woman gained an amazing body eating 3000-4000 calories a day and power lifting.
That sounds SOOOOO much better than cutting calories and spending hours on a stationary bike.
My question is, if I were to duplicate her diet and workouts exactly, would I really lose fat? Or would I just have incredible muscle under all the fat? Should I focus on losing the 150lbs FIRST, THEN body sculpting? Because everything I've read tells me I CANNOT gain muscle while eating at a deficit.
Well, your mileage will probably vary from hers. Stationary bikes aren't known for being too high-calorie a burn anyway.
Heavy lifting *is* known for increasing your metabolism over the course of a day or so. You don't burn it all at once, but you *can* recomposition your body and build lean muscle from fat tissue. So... Yeah, you CAN gain muscle eating at a deficit. It's really slow, sure, and you won't gain as much muscle as if you were eating at a surplus, but it will help your fat melt off a lot faster.0 -
So far I have been doing lifting and cardio but my personal trainer has me at high reps/ low weights, and I really think I'd like to do it the other way around. Maybe I'm just a wuss, though, and want to make the whole thing shorter.
Fire your f$%^ing trainer, right now. This is all you need.
http://www.amazon.com/The-New-Rules-Lifting-Women/dp/15833333980 -
In my personal experience, nutrition is the most important thing about losing weight... to start. And you build the exercise as you go. I don't know enough to know if cardio or lifting is better but I do know that I personally do very little cardio. I only practice yoga, which is strength training your body weight. I'm not THAT heavy but I do know while the scale didn't budge, I lost 2 pant sizes and I have never been more fit... down to 19% body fat.
So I would recommend working with your trainer to decide what's right for you. I think it's sensible to mix cardio and strength training now and transition to heavy lifting when you're slightly more fit! Sounds like you are WELL on your way!! Don't rush it. It's a lifestyle and you'll be doing it forever, whatever way you go! So love it!
PS - that tiny little super hero (so strong!) eats 3,000 calories a day but they are all nutritionally perfect foods... she isn't eating any junk food or snacks. It's all lean protein and veggies.
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Give it a go for two weeks and see how you go. First see if you can eat 4000 calls a day, which is sometimes a challenge. And then hitting the gym rain, hail or shine for 3,4 or 5 times a week. Make sure you have a way to measure your results too.
You don't need to just do cardio either! when your lifting at high intensity, your heart rate won't be low!0 -
Agreed.So far I have been doing lifting and cardio but my personal trainer has me at high reps/ low weights, and I really think I'd like to do it the other way around. Maybe I'm just a wuss, though, and want to make the whole thing shorter.
Fire your f$%^ing trainer, right now. This is all you need.
http://www.amazon.com/The-New-Rules-Lifting-Women/dp/15833333980 -
I weigh 328 as of today. I've lost 32lbs so far with calorie restriction and exercise.
I read stories like this
http://www.nerdfitness.com/blog/2011/07/21/meet-staci-your-new-powerlifting-super-hero/
Where a woman gained an amazing body eating 3000-4000 calories a day and power lifting.
That sounds SOOOOO much better than cutting calories and spending hours on a stationary bike.
My question is, if I were to duplicate her diet and workouts exactly, would I really lose fat? Or would I just have incredible muscle under all the fat? Should I focus on losing the 150lbs FIRST, THEN body sculpting? Because everything I've read tells me I CANNOT gain muscle while eating at a deficit.
Well, your mileage will probably vary from hers. Stationary bikes aren't known for being too high-calorie a burn anyway.
Heavy lifting *is* known for increasing your metabolism over the course of a day or so. You don't burn it all at once, but you *can* recomposition your body and build lean muscle from fat tissue. So... Yeah, you CAN gain muscle eating at a deficit. It's really slow, sure, and you won't gain as much muscle as if you were eating at a surplus, but it will help your fat melt off a lot faster.
You will not build lean muscle from fat0 -
Thank you! I am in the category of - I was fat but STRONG 4 years ago before I was in an accident where I was disabled. Now I want to be strong again. I have very low muscle tone, especially in the leg that was injured.
Don't confuse muscle gain with strength gain - you can gain strength without growing larger muscles and it is much easier to do! Also, often it looks like someone gained muscle mass as they lose weight because you can see the muscles. I have been tracking weight, BF%, and measurements for 3 years, have lost a total of 58 pounds. I have lost lean mass, but you can see my muscles now.
As long as you are lifting, and adding progressively, you should be seeing improvement in strength. Not an expert, but my experience is that heavy lifting is best if you work your way into it making sure you have sufficient core strength and know form to prevent injuries. That is what I did, and it is working well. I love heavy lifting, but am not seeing any muscle gain, just strength gain. Good enough for me!
ETA: Congratulations on your loss so far!0 -
Key points of Staci's story - she lost weight the cardio route first - 170 to 117. THEN she realized it wasn't the best way and started working on body composition. She GAINED weight eating 3-5k cal a day, as was her intent.
SO.....to drop the weight and get strong, you will need to focus on progressive strength training (heavy 5-8 rep range with regular weight increases) and some cardio, but ALSO have a moderate calorie deficit. Depending on your BMR and calculated TDEE, this could range from 1600-2200 calories (just a wild guess, you will want to research it more and find what your numbers are). Hitting a 1000 daily deficit can be hard physically and mentally and you can get the same, if not better, results with a 250-500 deficit. No need to suffer through the process, but you will need to be PATIENT. 150 lbs will go away, but you have to be consistent in logging and exercise and let the process happen without trying to "speed it up."
My best advice: READ, READ, READ. The more information you have about diet and exercise, the more likely you will be able to develop a plan that works for YOU, not just mirror what worked for someone else.0 -
YMMV, and this is just my experience so far. I had been exercising with just cardio, usually about 30 minutes of elliptical a day, and keeping watch on calories, and I was losing weight pretty steadily. I had lost about 30 pounds total, which put me around 303 (Holidays came and I got back up to around 305-307, dang it) About that same time, I decided to follow my friend into doing weight lifting, and I've been having a rough time of losing the pounds on the scale.
Even now, when I'm doing weights MWF and also cardio for 30 minutes every weekday and watching calories, I'll be lucky to squeak about a pound loss a week. I'm hoping that's because I'm a newbie lifter and adding on a lot of muscle mass, but it's discouraging, I tell ya.
On the other hand, I can tell the difference in strength and muscle tone, so there's that. But I still think that for folks 300+ pounds, cardio is the exercise path to go to lose the weight. Take that .02 for what you will.0 -
I weigh 328 as of today. I've lost 32lbs so far with calorie restriction and exercise.
I read stories like this
http://www.nerdfitness.com/blog/2011/07/21/meet-staci-your-new-powerlifting-super-hero/
Where a woman gained an amazing body eating 3000-4000 calories a day and power lifting.
That sounds SOOOOO much better than cutting calories and spending hours on a stationary bike.
My question is, if I were to duplicate her diet and workouts exactly, would I really lose fat? Or would I just have incredible muscle under all the fat? Should I focus on losing the 150lbs FIRST, THEN body sculpting? Because everything I've read tells me I CANNOT gain muscle while eating at a deficit.
Just my opinions, but at 328 lbs, you do not need to be bulking at 3000-4000 calories. You need to cut.
That said, there's nothing to stop you from lifting while eating a caloric deficit. As overfat beginners are one of the few demographics that can lose fat while adding some muscle, you may even see some gains while lifting (at least for a while). The big reason to lift though is to preserve what lean body mass you already have. If you simply eat a caloric deficit and do a lot of cardio, you are almost certain to lose more lean body mass than if you lift while cutting (make sure you hit your protein macro daily as well). In essence, even if you never add a pound of muscle from lifting on a caloric deficit, you will still end up with more muscle at your goal weight if you lift while cutting.
Ultimately, weight loss comes from your diet. Going to the gym will help with your fitness and that's great for your health, but you can lose weight through purely diet alone, even if you never get off the couch. It's great you want to start lifting and I think you should, but don't think that lifting and eating a ton of calories will transform you into a petite 120 lb girl. Lifting and eating 4000 calories will simply cause you to bulk up even more in both muscle and fat, which I'm doubting is your goal. A caloric deficit is what you need.0 -
So far I have been doing lifting and cardio but my personal trainer has me at high reps/ low weights, and I really think I'd like to do it the other way around. Maybe I'm just a wuss, though, and want to make the whole thing shorter.
Fire your f$%^ing trainer, right now. This is all you need.
http://www.amazon.com/The-New-Rules-Lifting-Women/dp/1583333398
I bought that book, but I am disappointed because I can't do a lot of the exercises listed in it due to my disability. I can't bend my toes and I can't do any lifts that puts a lot of my weight ON my toes. I'm also struggling to work around post-injury weakness. The whole reason I have a trainer is so he can help me modify work-outs around my limitations. I'm terrified of hurting myself again. The last time I got a great idea about what I could do, post-accident, I ended up with a torn meniscus and a hyper-extended ACL.0 -
If you read that story, that girl did NOT lose weight by eating 3000-4000 calories and power lifting. She lost weight by running and starving herself, THEN she started eating healthy and lifting and developed her fit body.
My suggestion would to talk to your trainer about your desire to transition from low weights at high reps to heavy weights at low reps. If s/he is not receptive to the idea, find a trainer that is.
And stay within a reasonable calorie deficit so that you lose at a heatlhy rate.0 -
In my personal experience, nutrition is the most important thing about losing weight... to start. And you build the exercise as you go. I don't know enough to know if cardio or lifting is better but I do know that I personally do very little cardio. I only practice yoga, which is strength training your body weight. I'm not THAT heavy but I do know while the scale didn't budge, I lost 2 pant sizes and I have never been more fit... down to 19% body fat.
So I would recommend working with your trainer to decide what's right for you. I think it's sensible to mix cardio and strength training now and transition to heavy lifting when you're slightly more fit! Sounds like you are WELL on your way!! Don't rush it. It's a lifestyle and you'll be doing it forever, whatever way you go! So love it!
PS - that tiny little super hero (so strong!) eats 3,000 calories a day but they are all nutritionally perfect foods... she isn't eating any junk food or snacks. It's all lean protein and veggies.
I completely agree. I friend that is built much like I am took a year to make a total body transformation last year. I was so inspired and impressed with turning herself from a couch potato to an athlete. I asked her how she did it. Two things were most important:
Losing weight is 80% diet and 20% exercise ...a clean, healthy diet is CRUCIAL
Get into heavy lifting, none of this low weight/high rep business.
She encouraged me to purchase a book called "The Female Body Breakthrough" by Rachel Cosgrove. (The revolutionary strength-training plan for losing fat and getting the body you want.) So far, it's been the best $12 (on Amazon) that I've spent in a LONG time. Very easy read, easy to follow, has meal plans and work out plans all included. I'm 2 weeks into it and feel GREAT!
GO FOR IT!!! :-)0 -
Every Sunday (or whatever works, but usually its Sunday) I cook a few pounds of boneless skinless chicken breast. I then portion it out and keep them in ziploc bags. If I don’t have time for that, you can get all natural precooked sausage (both chicken and pork) that works just as well as a “bring to work” meat.
5AM: pre-workout: (first thing in the morning) - protein shake. (nothing special). Its not paleo, and i love every sip of it. Then I go and work out. If I go to the gym with a full stomach, I will not leave with a full stomach.
7:30AM: on my way to work: apple or pear.
9:30AM: sweet potato with cinnamon. I keep them at work, and cut them up, throw it in the microwave for 5 minutes with cinnamon. Comes out amazing.
Another protein shake somewhere in here between breakfast and lunch.
11:45AM-12PM: lunch: two of the bags of chicken I precooked and a bag of the steamfresh vegetables. The entire bag, its like 3.5 servings of vegetables. My favorite is broccoli, cauliflower, and carrots.
Lunch 2: spinach salad with shrimp, red peppers, green peppers, red onion, lemon juice.
2-3 snacks in the afternoon. Could be one of these: Apple with almond butter, bell pepper (I eat them like apples… I’m weird), carrots (they even make carrots cut like chips), bags of chicken (yes, those bags of chicken I consider a snack as well, not just a meal), a zucchini (yes, plain, raw, uncooked), celery with almond butter and raisins, strawberries, frozen mixed berries.
7-8PM: dinners: 95% of the time it’s meat (steak, sausage, shrimp, salmon, or chicken) with one of the following: red peppers, green peppers, red onions, broccoli, carrots, cauliflower (steamfresh bags!), and/or summer squash and zucchini
Every once in a while i make something awesome, like this (but really, that takes a lot of time). When i DO make something like that, i make it in mass bulk and will eat it for the week.
In the winter, I’ll usually make a beef shank stew on Sundays that I can eat for a lunch or two as well.
this is not 3000-4000 calories,more like 20000 -
So far I have been doing lifting and cardio but my personal trainer has me at high reps/ low weights, and I really think I'd like to do it the other way around. Maybe I'm just a wuss, though, and want to make the whole thing shorter.
Fire your f$%^ing trainer, right now. This is all you need.
http://www.amazon.com/The-New-Rules-Lifting-Women/dp/1583333398
I bought that book, but I am disappointed because I can't do a lot of the exercises listed in it due to my disability. I can't bend my toes and I can't do any lifts that puts a lot of my weight ON my toes. I'm also struggling to work around post-injury weakness. The whole reason I have a trainer is so he can help me modify work-outs around my limitations. I'm terrified of hurting myself again. The last time I got a great idea about what I could do, post-accident, I ended up with a torn meniscus and a hyper-extended ACL.
If you are working with a trainer who is qualified and familiar with your injury and recovery, then I would say listen to the trainer. Perhaps low weight high reps is the best thing for you right now. Tell them what you'd like to eventually get to, but listen if they say your are not ready for that yet.
Don't be in such a rush.0 -
I'm with you that I like the exercise part of my regime, but not the calorie-cutting diet part. Who does?
But the reality is that, to lose weight, you have to diet. You have to eat less and eat lighter.
Exercise is great for all sorts of stuff -- cardiovascular health, getting strong, firming up. But fat is fat, and muscle is muscle.
If you weigh 300+ lbs, you have alot of fat to burn -- and weight-lifting won't burn it off very efficiently at all. To lose a large amount of fat, you simply have to take in alot fewer calories that you are expending.
Just take a look at the calorie counts under the MFP "exercise" tab.
Walking /jogging is great for health, for example. But I have to walk / job for 40 minutes just to burn off one croissant. So, in terms of efficient fast weight loss, you're better off just not eating the croissant.0 -
I can tell you, as someone who has lost the weight and gained it back again, that it is so much diet based. When I exercise and lift without cutting calories, I lose maybe a few inches here and there. When I cut calories I always lose regardless of if I exercise. Exercise and lifting is great for your overall health, but I would not under any circumstances use it as an excuse to overeat, otherwise you'll end up like me, back at square one.0
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1) You can never copy what anyone else does and guarantee commensurate results, this is pretty intuitive but is worth saying.
2) It would take you a very long time to gain incredible muscle. I assume this was just a turn of phrase but a lot of (usually) women think that lifting will ineluctably make them "bulky" which is, I'm sure you know, nonsense.
3) Whether or not you should lift: I personally vote yes. The lines are blurred as to whether people on a deficit can build muscle. Many people report to but in reality I think that most of these people simply have improved muscularity due to fat loss. You will improve your strength considerably if you lift and if you think you would enjoy it I see no reason why you shouldn't lift throughout your weight loss. Perhaps you will gain some muscle, but irrespective you will certainly gain strength and the various other benefits of weight lifting.
4) Experiment with different methods here. The journey is your own and ultimately you should find something that works for you and stick with it. Whatever that may be.
Good luck 0 -
I can tell you, as someone who has lost the weight and gained it back again, that it is so much diet based. When I exercise and lift without cutting calories, I lose maybe a few inches here and there. When I cut calories I always lose regardless of if I exercise. Exercise and lifting is great for your overall health, but I would not under any circumstances use it as an excuse to overeat, otherwise you'll end up like me, back at square one.
Thanks! It's good to hear from people with personal experience!0 -
Science tells us that diet is king when it comes to losing weight. Exercise helps you keep it off once its gone & helps you manage stress so you're less tempted to eat for emotional reasons and improves your overall mood and health. My own experience matches the scientific research, started bike commuting a 28 mile loop and weight lifting, immediately lost 8 lbs, but at the end of a year of that behavior I was down 3 lbs. The biking and weight lifting helped me feel great- while wearing the same pant size. Eating away any calorie burn is depressingly easy. On calorie restriction plus exercise, got down 50 lbs.0
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I find myself most successful when I split the deficit between diet and fitness ... eating at BMR at LEAST every day, and burning high amounts I don't eat all back to boost my deficit ... (usually average 2000 gross, about 1500 net) ...0
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