Oh you like Herbalife?

BrettPGH_
BrettPGH_ Posts: 2,578 Member
in Food and Nutrition
This is for everyone out there who ever got a strike for arguing with someone who was pushing worthless, MLM, garbage shakes.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/massachusetts-senator-calls-probe-herbalife-155000605--sector.html

I guess the Senate are just being bullies and haters too, huh? There's a reason everyone says the only weight you'll lose is in your wallet.

Replies

  • Escloflowne
    Escloflowne Posts: 2,038 Member
    snl-high-five.gif
  • Cranquistador
    Cranquistador Posts: 39,744 Member
    excellent
  • delicious_cocktail
    delicious_cocktail Posts: 5,797 Member
    Mr/Mrs Hellothis - while I am fully in support of targeting the deceitful areas of the fitness 'industry', I really need to object to something here.

    I'm sure no one has actually READ the article, but very clearly the senator has a serious problem delivering solid rhetoric.

    This is just about the worst political rallying cry I think I have ever heard:
    "There is nothing nutritional about possible pyramid schemes that promise financial benefit but result in economic ruin for vulnerable families," Markey, a member of the Commerce, Science and Transportation Committee, said in a press release.

    Shame on you helnotice, for propagating this sort of political hacksmanship.
  • auddii
    auddii Posts: 15,357 Member
    While I don't think anyone should waste money on Herbalife, isn't it the same selling scheme as Avon or Mary Kay? As far as I know, no one has told them they are pyramid schemes. Yes, it is unfortunate that some of his constituents decided that the best thing to do with their retirement fund was to liquidate it early and then spend the entire amount on Herbalife that they hoped they could sell to others. To me, that just sounds like a very bad financial decision, but you can't blame that on the company.
  • danasings
    danasings Posts: 8,218 Member
    While I don't think anyone should waste money on Herbalife, isn't it the same selling scheme as Avon or Mary Kay? As far as I know, no one has told them they are pyramid schemes. Yes, it is unfortunate that some of his constituents decided that the best thing to do with their retirement fund was to liquidate it early and then spend the entire amount on Herbalife that they hoped they could sell to others. To me, that just sounds like a very bad financial decision, but you can't blame that on the company.

    A pyramid scheme has no product. It's basically people pooling money, and the people at the top of the pyramid take the money of the people on the bottom. Eventually the money runs out, the pyramid collapses, and most of the people involved are broke. Think Bernie Madoff. That's my understanding, anyway...I didn't google the official definition of "pyramid scheme." MLM has a product available, and no matter how crappy that product may be, it's still there.
  • Lleldiranne
    Lleldiranne Posts: 5,516 Member
    While I don't think anyone should waste money on Herbalife, isn't it the same selling scheme as Avon or Mary Kay? As far as I know, no one has told them they are pyramid schemes. Yes, it is unfortunate that some of his constituents decided that the best thing to do with their retirement fund was to liquidate it early and then spend the entire amount on Herbalife that they hoped they could sell to others. To me, that just sounds like a very bad financial decision, but you can't blame that on the company.

    A pyramid scheme has no product. It's basically people pooling money, and the people at the top of the pyramid take the money of the people on the bottom. Eventually the money runs out, the pyramid collapses, and most of the people involved are broke. Think Bernie Madoff. That's my understanding, anyway...I didn't google the official definition of "pyramid scheme." MLM has a product available, and no matter how crappy that product may be, it's still there.

    And there's a 3rd type of business, Direct Marketing, that Avon, Mary Kay, Pampered Chef, Scentsy Candles, etc fall under. They aren't Multi-Level. There is even a Direct Sellers Association that carefully regulates them to keep them from being MLM.
  • cmcollins001
    cmcollins001 Posts: 3,472 Member
    The MLM model works. As they say (or at least used to say) in Amway, names and circles. A friend of mine was in Amway for a while, and he did ok for the most part. But the MLM design is to get someone to give you names and those names to give you names. This gives you an in for the cold calls, "Mrs. Jones, hello, my name is Bob, your friend Betty gave me your number and she believes that you might be interested in a <insert product/idea/plan here>, when would be a good time to meet up and go over the details?"

    Just because the products are crap, doesn't mean the plan is crap. It works. I personally don't like it, but I can't deny that it works. I works for selling products, getting donations, raising awareness for a cause, and many other things.

    Think of it like this, when you Share or Like something on Facebook...or even on your wall here, you are in essence, condoning said "thing" and giving your friends an opportunity to see it, which in turn they decide the like and they share it among their friends. Same concept.
  • liesevanlingen
    liesevanlingen Posts: 508 Member
    I've tried some of the Herbalife products, and I did lose some weight--but nobody ever even asked me if I wanted to sell it. No pressure that way at all. I thought a pyramid scheme involved trying to force people to sign up to sell their products, which was something I had/have no interest in doing--but they didn't even ask me (or anyone else that I know of who has tried it) So I'm not sure if it actually qualifies as a pyramid scheme if you aren't trying to get people to sign up "underneath" you.
  • Unknown
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  • kellydisney
    kellydisney Posts: 3
    Herbalife can cause hepatitis. Recently had a patient at work come through with hepatitis caused by Herbalife. Looked it up and sure enough there is evidence to support it. There is no quick fix.
  • SezxyStef
    SezxyStef Posts: 15,267 Member
    Herbalife can cause hepatitis. Recently had a patient at work come through with hepatitis caused by Herbalife. Looked it up and sure enough there is evidence to support it. There is no quick fix.

    I do not for one minute that the Canadian Government would allow the sale of a product that caused Hepatitis...
    Although there are reported cases of hepatotoxicity and other side effects induced by these products, there is still not strong evidence to generate a positive reaction of the control organisms. We report a case of acute toxic hepatitis potencially due to the consumption of Herbalife.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19157382
  • FredDoyle
    FredDoyle Posts: 2,272 Member
    Next up (hopefully), Advocare!
  • fishnbrah
    fishnbrah Posts: 550
    ive been asked to sell herbalife many times on social media. stuff is a joke
  • gelendestrasse
    gelendestrasse Posts: 204
    Herbalife, Amway, Mona Vie, it's all the same. It's not a "pyramid scheme" exactly because they sell a product, so it's legal. But it works like a pyramid scheme so the people at the top are laughing all the way to the bank.

    Of course the senator is probably just jealous he didn't get in at the top. The government is more like a ponzi scheme with the threat of jail to make you pay up.
  • FP4HSharon
    FP4HSharon Posts: 664 Member
    Whether you call it Direct Sales or MLM, the best advice I heard was from a Christian financial expert Larry Burkett. He said that there wasn't anything wrong w/Direct Sales or MLM in themselves, as long as you followed 2 rules:

    1. Only sell a product that you truly believe wholeheartedly in.

    AND

    2. Do NOT look at EVERY SINGLE person you meet as a potential sale or sales associate.
  • warriortraveler10
    warriortraveler10 Posts: 7 Member
    unfortunately I tried Herbalife, I liked the taste and was doing well with it but it made me liver issues as soon as i quit taking it my bloodwork came back normal. Im not slamming the product but be careful because I had a negative experience with it.
  • tempehforever
    tempehforever Posts: 183 Member
    I'm glad someone else is pointing out the shadiness of MLMs and direct sales companies. I've posted multiple times on here that to me, the issue isn't whether Herbalife works or is "worth the price." The issue is that, like all MLMs, Herbalife preys financially on their distributors through misleading information about earnings potential, market saturation, sales culture, etc. Virtually all participants LOSE money in MLMs.

    I don't care how wonderful a product is--if it is sold through the MLM model, I consider it unethical to purchase.
  • tempehforever
    tempehforever Posts: 183 Member
    While I don't think anyone should waste money on Herbalife, isn't it the same selling scheme as Avon or Mary Kay? As far as I know, no one has told them they are pyramid schemes. Yes, it is unfortunate that some of his constituents decided that the best thing to do with their retirement fund was to liquidate it early and then spend the entire amount on Herbalife that they hoped they could sell to others. To me, that just sounds like a very bad financial decision, but you can't blame that on the company.

    Um, Mary Kay is a completely shady pyramid scheme. Check out www.pinktruth.com
  • delicious_cocktail
    delicious_cocktail Posts: 5,797 Member
    Check out www.pinktruth.com

    Yeah right like I'm clicking that link at work.
  • GradatimFerociter
    GradatimFerociter Posts: 296 Member
    Herbs are tasty.

    Wait, what....
  • tempehforever
    tempehforever Posts: 183 Member
    Check out www.pinktruth.com

    Yeah right like I'm clicking that link at work.

    Hahaha, it is SFW, I promise! :) But does sound pretty funny now that you mention it...hehe.

    If you don't want to risk it, you can read this very good investigative article on the same subject. http://harpers.org/archive/2012/08/the-pink-pyramid-scheme/
  • Wetcoaster
    Wetcoaster Posts: 1,788 Member
    At Herbalife, a distributor's compensation is driven not by how much product they sell to retail consumers, but on how successful they are in recruiting other distributors into the "business opportunity".

    Same with Visalus,Advocare.............. yadda yadda yadda.

    It is not about the product it is about selling the the fantasy of easy money.

    98% of all people in mlm make no money.
  • Eaglesfanintn
    Eaglesfanintn Posts: 813 Member
    While I don't think anyone should waste money on Herbalife, isn't it the same selling scheme as Avon or Mary Kay? As far as I know, no one has told them they are pyramid schemes. Yes, it is unfortunate that some of his constituents decided that the best thing to do with their retirement fund was to liquidate it early and then spend the entire amount on Herbalife that they hoped they could sell to others. To me, that just sounds like a very bad financial decision, but you can't blame that on the company.

    A pyramid scheme has no product. It's basically people pooling money, and the people at the top of the pyramid take the money of the people on the bottom. Eventually the money runs out, the pyramid collapses, and most of the people involved are broke. Think Bernie Madoff. That's my understanding, anyway...I didn't google the official definition of "pyramid scheme." MLM has a product available, and no matter how crappy that product may be, it's still there.

    FWIW - Madoff was a ponzi scheme, not a pyramid. Ponzi schemes are built on borrowing from one place and then borrowing more money to pay off the first loan and so on. They pay back some loans with a certain amount of earnings and then those people that made money tell others how much money they made and how they should get in on it, and then it comes crashing down.
  • MaryJane_8810002
    MaryJane_8810002 Posts: 2,082 Member
    request-five.gif

    Besides most of the people on here that swear by that stuff usually just sell it on the side.
  • Acg67
    Acg67 Posts: 12,142 Member
    Bill Ackman approves
  • cmcollins001
    cmcollins001 Posts: 3,472 Member
    The MLM model works. As they say (or at least used to say) in Amway, names and circles. A friend of mine was in Amway for a while, and he did ok for the most part. But the MLM design is to get someone to give you names and those names to give you names. This gives you an in for the cold calls, "Mrs. Jones, hello, my name is Bob, your friend Betty gave me your number and she believes that you might be interested in a <insert product/idea/plan here>, when would be a good time to meet up and go over the details?"

    Just because the products are crap, doesn't mean the plan is crap. It works. I personally don't like it, but I can't deny that it works. I works for selling products, getting donations, raising awareness for a cause, and many other things.

    Think of it like this, when you Share or Like something on Facebook...or even on your wall here, you are in essence, condoning said "thing" and giving your friends an opportunity to see it, which in turn they decide the like and they share it among their friends. Same concept.

    That depends on your concept of "works".

    Do those companies make money? Yes. At least in countries they haven't been banned from operating in.

    But their business model relies on using consumers as "pushers", that really is the best word I can think of. The products are not good and are wildly overpriced, to make up for all the money that needs to flow upwards. A legitimate business would simply put their product in stores and market them to consumers.

    With an MLM model people are first being convinced to become pushers with fantasies of early retirement and no work involved. After they've purchased a mini-warehouse of goods to sell they're further encouraged to sign up more people for this scam. Most of the time they end up selling the products to family and friends, who only buy anything out of pity and to try and be helpful. That's the key to the MLM model. These products would not sell in stores. They rely on using consumers to do the selling for them.

    The overwhelming majority of people who become involved in MLM marketing lose money. Some lose quite a bit. It may work for the company, but it doesn't work for their users.

    So, in my opinion, it may "work", but stealing coins from charity jars "works" too. Doesn't mean there's anything good about it.

    Don't get me wrong, I wasn't endorsing it. I don't like the system myself.
  • LiftAllThePizzas
    LiftAllThePizzas Posts: 17,857 Member
    It's just a token-based pyramid scheme. The 'token' (crappy products) keeps it from being illegal.
  • danasings
    danasings Posts: 8,218 Member
    While I don't think anyone should waste money on Herbalife, isn't it the same selling scheme as Avon or Mary Kay? As far as I know, no one has told them they are pyramid schemes. Yes, it is unfortunate that some of his constituents decided that the best thing to do with their retirement fund was to liquidate it early and then spend the entire amount on Herbalife that they hoped they could sell to others. To me, that just sounds like a very bad financial decision, but you can't blame that on the company.

    A pyramid scheme has no product. It's basically people pooling money, and the people at the top of the pyramid take the money of the people on the bottom. Eventually the money runs out, the pyramid collapses, and most of the people involved are broke. Think Bernie Madoff. That's my understanding, anyway...I didn't google the official definition of "pyramid scheme." MLM has a product available, and no matter how crappy that product may be, it's still there.

    FWIW - Madoff was a ponzi scheme, not a pyramid. Ponzi schemes are built on borrowing from one place and then borrowing more money to pay off the first loan and so on. They pay back some loans with a certain amount of earnings and then those people that made money tell others how much money they made and how they should get in on it, and then it comes crashing down.

    There ya go. I knew something in my statement was incorrect. :flowerforyou:
  • MizTerry
    MizTerry Posts: 3,763 Member
    IBL...

    This may not end well on the general forum.
  • redraidergirl2009
    redraidergirl2009 Posts: 2,560 Member
    No one makes people spend beyond their means, but hey it's america, you can sue for anything

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