Am I on the right track?

amanoj2013
amanoj2013 Posts: 4
in Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
I'm new to this website, so this will be my first post here.

I just had a few questions and wanted to make sure that I'm on the right track...so here goes:

I've recently started bulking, and was wondering if I'm doing it correctly. I weighed ~148 about three or four weeks back when I started, and now, I weigh ~ 154. My percent body fat is ~15%, though with some uncertainty (the scale I used may have been untrustworthy). I'm ~6' tall. These are the macros I'm averaging per day: 350g carbs, 185g protein, 130g fat, and always over 3000 calories.

I lift three times per week, and this started around three weeks back. I seem to have made some good gains, as I'm lifting much more than I used to when I started. I mainly do compound exercises; squats, dead lifts, overhead press, lunges, pull ups, rows, and some isolation exercises. Each session is usually an hour long.

The main reason for this post is about gaining fat. Will I gain too much fat if I keep this up? I was planning to keep with this exercise plan until about the end of February, and if my fat percent increased, I would make some changes to my daily diet.

Thanks for your response and time reading this. :)

Replies

  • MuscleBoundCop
    MuscleBoundCop Posts: 2
    If you are eating to gain you will gain fat, bottom line. Granted there are variables that will affect the amount of fat and blah blah blah, but you will gain fat as you bulk. Once you feel like you have your LBM where you want it you can cut and lose the fat (and muscle - insert opposite of mini rant above here)
    but your fat percentage should not increase because you should be gaining mostly muscle. if your fat percentage does increase then you will have to re-evaluate your plan.
  • dancerbyday
    dancerbyday Posts: 61
    If you are eating to gain, but don't necessarily want to gain fat, you just need to make sure you are eating the right stuff. Cut down on processed foods and sugar, eat more fruits, vegetables, whole grains, healthy proteins, and good fats (olive oil, coconut oil, avocado, nuts, etc.). What you put into your body will show on the outside. Plus you'll feel better if you eat well. Make sure that you do some cardio, but that you eat back the calories you expend (not on junk food!). Good luck!
  • cmeiron
    cmeiron Posts: 1,599 Member
    If you are eating to gain, but don't necessarily want to gain fat, you just need to make sure you are eating the right stuff. Cut down on processed foods and sugar, eat more fruits, vegetables, whole grains, healthy proteins, and good fats (olive oil, coconut oil, avocado, nuts, etc.). What you put into your body will show on the outside. Plus you'll feel better if you eat well. Make sure that you do some cardio, but that you eat back the calories you expend (not on junk food!). Good luck!

    Nope. Calories cause mass gain, both fat and muscle. It doesn't matter what the source of calories is. OP, a "standard" gain rate for men is about 1 lb/week. Your body can only make a certain amount of new muscle per week, so any extra calories after that point will be converted to fat. Some fat gain is going to be inevitable - that's just the way a bulk works. It's not the end of the world - just cut after. Lift heavy, use a good progressive program that has you working in the hypertrophy range (about 8-12 reps/set) and challenges you to add more weight periodically. Eat enough to sustain a 1 lb/week gain, get at least 1 g of protein per lb of lean body mass (about 125g/day for you). "Healthy" food is great but you don't have to limit your food choices.
  • Hornsby
    Hornsby Posts: 10,322 Member
    in for the answers. In a similar boat.
  • dancerbyday
    dancerbyday Posts: 61
    Yes, you are inevitably going to gain SOME fat no matter what, BUT you do need to be selective about what you put into your body. If you don't eat healthfully through this, all that crappy processed, sugary stuff will be stored as fat, instead of being put to good use building muscle and/or burning fat like other foods would. Regardless of whether you're trying to lose weight, gain weight, gain muscle, or just feel good: you need to pay attention to what you eat. Cut out the junk, up the good natural food.
  • jwdieter
    jwdieter Posts: 2,582 Member
    18 yr old male at 6' ~150 just starting to lift? Lift hard, eat hard. Body will go boom (in a good way).
  • cmeiron
    cmeiron Posts: 1,599 Member
    Yes, you are inevitably going to gain SOME fat no matter what, BUT you do need to be selective about what you put into your body. If you don't eat healthfully through this, all that crappy processed, sugary stuff will be stored as fat, instead of being put to good use building muscle and/or burning fat like other foods would. Regardless of whether you're trying to lose weight, gain weight, gain muscle, or just feel good: you need to pay attention to what you eat. Cut out the junk, up the good natural food.

    Still nope.
  • amanoj2013
    amanoj2013 Posts: 4
    Thanks for the responses, everyone!

    As for the foods I eat, most are homemade with fresh and minimally processed ingredients. I hardly eat junk food and candies and the like. I've improved significantly with my compound lifts. Is it normal to feel as though I'm getting fatter even though it doesn't look (mainly) like it in the biweekly pictures I take? Also, when should I start noticing a change in my physical appearance? I've seen changes in my legs, but that's about it. I know that if I keep at it, the changes will come, but I'm wondering when they usually start to take place.

    Thanks again! :)
  • cmeiron
    cmeiron Posts: 1,599 Member
    It's always good to shoot for whole, nutritious food, but don't deprive yourself of treats just as a matter of principle - it won't hurt your results to have treats. Aim for 80-90% whole foods and as long as you're hitting your macro targets, fill the rest of your calories with whatever you like. I nailed all my macros, and got a bunch of fruit/veg servings in yesterday, but still had room for pizza, kid's cereal, bacon and a cookie. Winning. Enjoying treats makes it easier to pack in the calories and it also makes it easier to adhere to the planned eating habits in the long run - you're not depriving yourself.

    I've heard a lot of people say they really start to notice the change in muscle mass after 2 or 3 months. This was also true for me. This is why longer-term bulking is often viewed as being more effective than short bulk/cut cycles.

    As for FEELING fatter even if you don't look it, YES, that's completely normal. Bulking is a bit of a head game; it is mentally challenging and our perceptions of "fatness" can get a bit skewed. A lot of people quit bulking before it has much of a chance to do any good because they get freaked out by a little extra fluff. I've been bulking since September and there have been many times where I felt "OMG SO FAT" and wanted to stop - but the reality is that I've not actually gained that much fat, and it's really only visible in my normal stubborn/trouble spots. I've pushed through and my planned end date is only two weeks away. Then I'll cut again, get rid of the bit of fluff, and enjoy the new gains.
  • amanoj2013
    amanoj2013 Posts: 4
    I don't completely deprive myself; I treat myself to junk food (not necessarily fast food) a couple times a week. How long should a bulk phase last for? I assume it's for however long it takes to get you the physique you want. I was planning to keep this up until about early May, and then hopefully start the cutting phase (for the summer!), and hope that I'm able to cut the fat.

    I had a question regarding fat. How many grams should I be having a day? I usually have around 130g, which I hope isn't too much. I have an avacado a day for the ridiculous amount of calories from it, but it also has a lot of fat, which I'm worried about. Should I find an alternative to it, or just keep with what I've been doing so far?

    Thanks again! :)
  • cmeiron
    cmeiron Posts: 1,599 Member
    I don't completely deprive myself; I treat myself to junk food (not necessarily fast food) a couple times a week. How long should a bulk phase last for? I assume it's for however long it takes to get you the physique you want. I was planning to keep this up until about early May, and then hopefully start the cutting phase (for the summer!), and hope that I'm able to cut the fat.

    I had a question regarding fat. How many grams should I be having a day? I usually have around 130g, which I hope isn't too much. I have an avacado a day for the ridiculous amount of calories from it, but it also has a lot of fat, which I'm worried about. Should I find an alternative to it, or just keep with what I've been doing so far?

    Thanks again! :)

    You got it: the length of a bulk is usually determined by looks, weight, and body fat%. Basically, you bulk until it's "too high". This number will depend on the person's comfort level and where they started out. Usually, the recommendation for guys who are super-concerned about physique/appearance is to start bulking when they're below 10% bf and then bulk up until they're around 15%. BUT. You're a young guy, you've got piles of testosterone, you're still growing - you're really at your prime in terms of ability to put muscle on right now. If it was me, I wouldn't worry about starting bulking at a bit higher bf%. I'd be eating like a beast and hitting the weights hard and enjoying the gains. Just watch your waistline; if your pants don't fit anymore, then it might be time to cut ;) Going until May sounds like a good plan - you should see pretty good results by then. You can always go longer than that if everything's going well.

    As for dietary fat, a typical recommendation is at least 0.35g/lb body mass, so for you that's about 51g. This is a MINIMUM, just at the 125g of protein would be a MINIMUM. Personally, I find that value low. I generally take in about 80-90g/day and I'm 140 lbs. Dietary fat wont turn into body fat (unless, like anything else, you overeat) - it's just another calorie source and in fact it's super-important for hormone regulation. In my opinion, your 100g/day is fine. Sometimes people who eat really high fat end up sacrificing a lot of carbs, which can affect performance in the gym (they're an important energy source). But, if you're feeling good, performing well in the gym, and getting your protein in while eating 100g a day, then it's all good.

    Here's an article you might find useful, a good overview about bulk/cut cycles: http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/general-philosophies-of-muscle-mass-gain.html
  • amanoj2013
    amanoj2013 Posts: 4
    Thanks for posting the link for the article; it was a good read!

    I'm consuming around 180g protein per day. Is this too much? It seems like it's really easy for me to pile on the protein since I generally try to avoid carbs (my main source being oats, rice, and veggies).

    I have a question regarding cardio. I've heard that people generally stay away from it when bulking. I was wondering if doing around 20-30 minutes of cardio on the days that I don't go to the gym would have that big of an effect on my gains. I do a lot of walking now during the week, as I need to get around my college campus and such. Is this sufficient or would more help?

    Thanks! :)
  • cmeiron
    cmeiron Posts: 1,599 Member
    180g is a bit on the high end. The most recent research suggests up to 1.4g/lb lbm, or about 175g for your size - but this was in the context of someone lean who was cutting and wanting to preserve muscle. When you're gaining muscle you can relax the protein intake a bit. But again, a lot of it is personal preference: as long as you've got enough energy for your workouts it's ok if your carbs are lower (But there's no need to specifically cut carbs at this point. Usually when someone comes out of a cut and goes into a bulk it's carbs that they add to increase their intake).

    There are different views on the cardio. For some of us, doing cardio boosts our calorie needs up past a point that we feel comfortable eating (whatever you burn has to be compensated for by more food). This was the case for me; I've cut it out completely (other than, like you, walking around campus or walking my dogs) and will gradually re-introduce it when I cut to help create a deficit. There is some thought that long steady-state cardio sessions can be detrimental to muscle gains, but that short, high-intensity (HIIT) sessions are ok. If you still want to do cardio, try some HIIT, but make sure you're keeping the intake where it needs to be.

    Here's a recent thread where the topic is discussed: http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/1182981-trying-to-gain-muscle-why-no-cardio
  • dancerbyday
    dancerbyday Posts: 61
    Listen, I understand feeling the need to "treat" yourself to junk food (though your mouth and brain are the only ones getting the "treat"), and that is perfectly fine. But you can't deny so stubbornly that putting good, nutritious food into your body will improve anything in the long run. I am a vegetarian, and I live a pretty active lifestyle, so it's important that I consume enough calories, protein, and healthy fats. This is completely feasible with my diet, which excludes all meat and is low in other animal products, is very low in sugar and processed foods, and consists of mostly: vegetables, fruits, grains, legumes, nuts, and healthy fats. I'm telling you, I've been a vegetarian my whole life and have recently been eating even cleaner than I was in the past. And I feel so much better! Even for a guy, trying to bulk up, it is possible. You don't have to go vegetarian or anything, but stop eating so much junk food! Treat yourself in other ways. I mean really: pizza, kid's cereal, bacon, AND a cookie all in the same day??

    You're bulking up to look better, no? Well you will look (and feel) better if you eat healthy. No if's, and's, or but's. You can not dispute that logic any further.

    I'm not saying your goal isn't attainable with your diet, but the results will be better if you greatly reduce the amount of bad food going into your body and feed it fuel it can utilize. You need nutrients and vitamins, and (honestly?) how much of that is there in pizza, kid's cereal, bacon, and a cookie? Just think about it. I'm done.
  • cmeiron
    cmeiron Posts: 1,599 Member
    Listen, I understand feeling the need to "treat" yourself to junk food (though your mouth and brain are the only ones getting the "treat"), and that is perfectly fine. But you can't deny so stubbornly that putting good, nutritious food into your body will improve anything in the long run. I am a vegetarian, and I live a pretty active lifestyle, so it's important that I consume enough calories, protein, and healthy fats. This is completely feasible with my diet, which excludes all meat and is low in other animal products, is very low in sugar and processed foods, and consists of mostly: vegetables, fruits, grains, legumes, nuts, and healthy fats. I'm telling you, I've been a vegetarian my whole life and have recently been eating even cleaner than I was in the past. And I feel so much better! Even for a guy, trying to bulk up, it is possible. You don't have to go vegetarian or anything, but stop eating so much junk food! Treat yourself in other ways. I mean really: pizza, kid's cereal, bacon, AND a cookie all in the same day??

    You're bulking up to look better, no? Well you will look (and feel) better if you eat healthy. No if's, and's, or but's. You can not dispute that logic any further.

    I'm not saying your goal isn't attainable with your diet, but the results will be better if you greatly reduce the amount of bad food going into your body and feed it fuel it can utilize. You need nutrients and vitamins, and (honestly?) how much of that is there in pizza, kid's cereal, bacon, and a cookie? Just think about it. I'm done.

    Ok, I thought about it. Here are my thoughts:

    a) I'm not a guy. I'm a woman. Who is bulking.

    b) I'm glad you found a way of eating that works well for you and makes you happy and makes you feel good. That is important.

    c) Many people find that type of diet to be unsustainable in the long run; people who promote restrictive diets as the ONLY way to reach one's goals often outshout everybody else, leading inexperienced people to assume that it is in fact the ONLY way to reach one's goals, when it is, in fact, not.

    d) The way that I am eating works well for me and makes me happy and makes me feel good. It's also permitted me to get in the best shape of my entire life: I have never been so lean, had so much muscle, or been so strong.

    e) So yes, I do dispute your assertion (not "logic" - there is nothing logical about your assertion and there are many counterexamples to your one example)

    f) Tell me one thing that's wrong with pizza (bread, tomato sauce, cheese), cereal (grains, milk, sugar), bacon (delicious) or a cookie (flour, milk, sugar, butter, chocolate). Or what's wrong with eating them all in the same day? I reached my protein, fat and carb goals, as well as my micronutrient requirements (you'll note I also consumed a lot of veggies, fruits and grain products in addition to other meat and eggs). Even if there was something wrong with it (and there's not), it was one day. Big woop.

    g) "There are truly VERY few foods that are actively bad for you. Most of the foods that we identify as “bad”, are simply low or devoid of micro-nutrients, minerals, fiber and other things like phytochemicals and protein that can be beneficial for you. These foods only become a problem when they occur frequently and with enough magnitude (frequency and magnitude!) to replace a significant enough portion of your diet that you become deficient in beneficial nutrients.

    Once our nutrient needs are met, we don’t get extra credit for eating more nutritious food! It’s not as though we have a health food critic living in our esophagus that has a control box that he switches from “get leaner and healthier” to “get fatter and unhealthier” every time he spots “good” or “bad” food.

    Thus, a healthy diet should be inclusionary vs. exclusionary; focused around including healthy foods, not excluding “unhealthy” foods. Meet your nutrient needs, and feel free to eat things that you may have traditionally seen as “bad” in moderation; so that you are still meeting your allotted caloric intake for your weight loss goals. Don’t make the mistake of looking at foods as “good” or “bad!” Good diets can include “bad” foods and bad diets can include “good” foods. Don’t get too caught up with what you have for lunch, because it is not a singular choice that will determine the success of your health and fitness goals, it is the balanced lifestyle you commit to long term!" - Eric Helms

    Ok, now I'm done too.
  • Mischievous_Rascal
    Mischievous_Rascal Posts: 1,791 Member
    Listen, I understand feeling the need to "treat" yourself to junk food (though your mouth and brain are the only ones getting the "treat"), and that is perfectly fine. But you can't deny so stubbornly that putting good, nutritious food into your body will improve anything in the long run. I am a vegetarian, and I live a pretty active lifestyle, so it's important that I consume enough calories, protein, and healthy fats. This is completely feasible with my diet, which excludes all meat and is low in other animal products, is very low in sugar and processed foods, and consists of mostly: vegetables, fruits, grains, legumes, nuts, and healthy fats. I'm telling you, I've been a vegetarian my whole life and have recently been eating even cleaner than I was in the past. And I feel so much better! Even for a guy, trying to bulk up, it is possible. You don't have to go vegetarian or anything, but stop eating so much junk food! Treat yourself in other ways. I mean really: pizza, kid's cereal, bacon, AND a cookie all in the same day??

    You're bulking up to look better, no? Well you will look (and feel) better if you eat healthy. No if's, and's, or but's. You can not dispute that logic any further.

    I'm not saying your goal isn't attainable with your diet, but the results will be better if you greatly reduce the amount of bad food going into your body and feed it fuel it can utilize. You need nutrients and vitamins, and (honestly?) how much of that is there in pizza, kid's cereal, bacon, and a cookie? Just think about it. I'm done.

    Ok, I thought about it. Here are my thoughts:

    a) I'm not a guy. I'm a woman. Who is bulking.

    b) I'm glad you found a way of eating that works well for you and makes you happy and makes you feel good. That is important.

    c) Many people find that type of diet to be unsustainable in the long run; people who promote restrictive diets as the ONLY way to reach one's goals often outshout everybody else, leading inexperienced people to assume that it is in fact the ONLY way to reach one's goals, when it is, in fact, not.

    d) The way that I am eating works well for me and makes me happy and makes me feel good. It's also permitted me to get in the best shape of my entire life: I have never been so lean, had so much muscle, or been so strong.

    e) So yes, I do dispute your assertion (not "logic" - there is nothing logical about your assertion and there are many counterexamples to your one example)

    f) Tell me one thing that's wrong with pizza (bread, tomato sauce, cheese), cereal (grains, milk, sugar), bacon (delicious) or a cookie (flour, milk, sugar, butter, chocolate). Or what's wrong with eating them all in the same day? I reached my protein, fat and carb goals, as well as my micronutrient requirements (you'll note I also consumed a lot of veggies, fruits and grain products in addition to other meat and eggs). Even if there was something wrong with it (and there's not), it was one day. Big woop.

    g) "There are truly VERY few foods that are actively bad for you. Most of the foods that we identify as “bad”, are simply low or devoid of micro-nutrients, minerals, fiber and other things like phytochemicals and protein that can be beneficial for you. These foods only become a problem when they occur frequently and with enough magnitude (frequency and magnitude!) to replace a significant enough portion of your diet that you become deficient in beneficial nutrients.

    Once our nutrient needs are met, we don’t get extra credit for eating more nutritious food! It’s not as though we have a health food critic living in our esophagus that has a control box that he switches from “get leaner and healthier” to “get fatter and unhealthier” every time he spots “good” or “bad” food.

    Thus, a healthy diet should be inclusionary vs. exclusionary; focused around including healthy foods, not excluding “unhealthy” foods. Meet your nutrient needs, and feel free to eat things that you may have traditionally seen as “bad” in moderation; so that you are still meeting your allotted caloric intake for your weight loss goals. Don’t make the mistake of looking at foods as “good” or “bad!” Good diets can include “bad” foods and bad diets can include “good” foods. Don’t get too caught up with what you have for lunch, because it is not a singular choice that will determine the success of your health and fitness goals, it is the balanced lifestyle you commit to long term!" - Eric Helms

    Ok, now I'm done too.

    I'm so glad you're on my FL. Saved me TONS of typing!!
  • neandermagnon
    neandermagnon Posts: 7,436 Member
    Even for a guy, trying to bulk up, it is possible. You don't have to go vegetarian or anything, but stop eating so much junk food! Treat yourself in other ways. I mean really: pizza, kid's cereal, bacon, AND a cookie all in the same day??

    Oh shock! Oh horror! What decadence!! Pizza, kids' cereal, bacon AND a cookie all in the same day!! *faints* I mean that's the kind of decadence that caused the decline and fall of the Roman empire..... (except they didn't have kids' cereal then because it hadn't been invented yet, but I'm sure it would have been on the menus at orgies if it had been)
  • 89nunu
    89nunu Posts: 1,082 Member
    Listen, I understand feeling the need to "treat" yourself to junk food (though your mouth and brain are the only ones getting the "treat"), and that is perfectly fine. But you can't deny so stubbornly that putting good, nutritious food into your body will improve anything in the long run. I am a vegetarian, and I live a pretty active lifestyle, so it's important that I consume enough calories, protein, and healthy fats. This is completely feasible with my diet, which excludes all meat and is low in other animal products, is very low in sugar and processed foods, and consists of mostly: vegetables, fruits, grains, legumes, nuts, and healthy fats. I'm telling you, I've been a vegetarian my whole life and have recently been eating even cleaner than I was in the past. And I feel so much better! Even for a guy, trying to bulk up, it is possible. You don't have to go vegetarian or anything, but stop eating so much junk food! Treat yourself in other ways. I mean really: pizza, kid's cereal, bacon, AND a cookie all in the same day??

    You're bulking up to look better, no? Well you will look (and feel) better if you eat healthy. No if's, and's, or but's. You can not dispute that logic any further.

    I'm not saying your goal isn't attainable with your diet, but the results will be better if you greatly reduce the amount of bad food going into your body and feed it fuel it can utilize. You need nutrients and vitamins, and (honestly?) how much of that is there in pizza, kid's cereal, bacon, and a cookie? Just think about it. I'm done.

    Ok, I thought about it. Here are my thoughts:

    a) I'm not a guy. I'm a woman. Who is bulking.

    b) I'm glad you found a way of eating that works well for you and makes you happy and makes you feel good. That is important.

    c) Many people find that type of diet to be unsustainable in the long run; people who promote restrictive diets as the ONLY way to reach one's goals often outshout everybody else, leading inexperienced people to assume that it is in fact the ONLY way to reach one's goals, when it is, in fact, not.

    d) The way that I am eating works well for me and makes me happy and makes me feel good. It's also permitted me to get in the best shape of my entire life: I have never been so lean, had so much muscle, or been so strong.

    e) So yes, I do dispute your assertion (not "logic" - there is nothing logical about your assertion and there are many counterexamples to your one example)

    f) Tell me one thing that's wrong with pizza (bread, tomato sauce, cheese), cereal (grains, milk, sugar), bacon (delicious) or a cookie (flour, milk, sugar, butter, chocolate). Or what's wrong with eating them all in the same day? I reached my protein, fat and carb goals, as well as my micronutrient requirements (you'll note I also consumed a lot of veggies, fruits and grain products in addition to other meat and eggs). Even if there was something wrong with it (and there's not), it was one day. Big woop.

    g) "There are truly VERY few foods that are actively bad for you. Most of the foods that we identify as “bad”, are simply low or devoid of micro-nutrients, minerals, fiber and other things like phytochemicals and protein that can be beneficial for you. These foods only become a problem when they occur frequently and with enough magnitude (frequency and magnitude!) to replace a significant enough portion of your diet that you become deficient in beneficial nutrients.

    Once our nutrient needs are met, we don’t get extra credit for eating more nutritious food! It’s not as though we have a health food critic living in our esophagus that has a control box that he switches from “get leaner and healthier” to “get fatter and unhealthier” every time he spots “good” or “bad” food.

    Thus, a healthy diet should be inclusionary vs. exclusionary; focused around including healthy foods, not excluding “unhealthy” foods. Meet your nutrient needs, and feel free to eat things that you may have traditionally seen as “bad” in moderation; so that you are still meeting your allotted caloric intake for your weight loss goals. Don’t make the mistake of looking at foods as “good” or “bad!” Good diets can include “bad” foods and bad diets can include “good” foods. Don’t get too caught up with what you have for lunch, because it is not a singular choice that will determine the success of your health and fitness goals, it is the balanced lifestyle you commit to long term!" - Eric Helms

    Ok, now I'm done too.

    Ahhhhh! You are awesome!!

    Also, I'm vegetarian and today I ate cookies, crisps, ice cream and I will have a kitkat and a kinder chocolate bar. And yes this is a very normal day for me on my bulk! It ain't all fun and games to eat 3100 calories!
    (but of course I watch my macros!)
  • Hornsby
    Hornsby Posts: 10,322 Member
    Listen, I understand feeling the need to "treat" yourself to junk food (though your mouth and brain are the only ones getting the "treat"), and that is perfectly fine. But you can't deny so stubbornly that putting good, nutritious food into your body will improve anything in the long run. I am a vegetarian, and I live a pretty active lifestyle, so it's important that I consume enough calories, protein, and healthy fats. This is completely feasible with my diet, which excludes all meat and is low in other animal products, is very low in sugar and processed foods, and consists of mostly: vegetables, fruits, grains, legumes, nuts, and healthy fats. I'm telling you, I've been a vegetarian my whole life and have recently been eating even cleaner than I was in the past. And I feel so much better! Even for a guy, trying to bulk up, it is possible. You don't have to go vegetarian or anything, but stop eating so much junk food! Treat yourself in other ways. I mean really: pizza, kid's cereal, bacon, AND a cookie all in the same day??

    You're bulking up to look better, no? Well you will look (and feel) better if you eat healthy. No if's, and's, or but's. You can not dispute that logic any further.

    I'm not saying your goal isn't attainable with your diet, but the results will be better if you greatly reduce the amount of bad food going into your body and feed it fuel it can utilize. You need nutrients and vitamins, and (honestly?) how much of that is there in pizza, kid's cereal, bacon, and a cookie? Just think about it. I'm done.

    Ok, I thought about it. Here are my thoughts:

    a) I'm not a guy. I'm a woman. Who is bulking.

    b) I'm glad you found a way of eating that works well for you and makes you happy and makes you feel good. That is important.

    c) Many people find that type of diet to be unsustainable in the long run; people who promote restrictive diets as the ONLY way to reach one's goals often outshout everybody else, leading inexperienced people to assume that it is in fact the ONLY way to reach one's goals, when it is, in fact, not.

    d) The way that I am eating works well for me and makes me happy and makes me feel good. It's also permitted me to get in the best shape of my entire life: I have never been so lean, had so much muscle, or been so strong.

    e) So yes, I do dispute your assertion (not "logic" - there is nothing logical about your assertion and there are many counterexamples to your one example)

    f) Tell me one thing that's wrong with pizza (bread, tomato sauce, cheese), cereal (grains, milk, sugar), bacon (delicious) or a cookie (flour, milk, sugar, butter, chocolate). Or what's wrong with eating them all in the same day? I reached my protein, fat and carb goals, as well as my micronutrient requirements (you'll note I also consumed a lot of veggies, fruits and grain products in addition to other meat and eggs). Even if there was something wrong with it (and there's not), it was one day. Big woop.

    g) "There are truly VERY few foods that are actively bad for you. Most of the foods that we identify as “bad”, are simply low or devoid of micro-nutrients, minerals, fiber and other things like phytochemicals and protein that can be beneficial for you. These foods only become a problem when they occur frequently and with enough magnitude (frequency and magnitude!) to replace a significant enough portion of your diet that you become deficient in beneficial nutrients.

    Once our nutrient needs are met, we don’t get extra credit for eating more nutritious food! It’s not as though we have a health food critic living in our esophagus that has a control box that he switches from “get leaner and healthier” to “get fatter and unhealthier” every time he spots “good” or “bad” food.

    Thus, a healthy diet should be inclusionary vs. exclusionary; focused around including healthy foods, not excluding “unhealthy” foods. Meet your nutrient needs, and feel free to eat things that you may have traditionally seen as “bad” in moderation; so that you are still meeting your allotted caloric intake for your weight loss goals. Don’t make the mistake of looking at foods as “good” or “bad!” Good diets can include “bad” foods and bad diets can include “good” foods. Don’t get too caught up with what you have for lunch, because it is not a singular choice that will determine the success of your health and fitness goals, it is the balanced lifestyle you commit to long term!" - Eric Helms

    Ok, now I'm done too.

    tumblr_inline_mg4j25xqL91qabw0a.gif
  • WhiteRabbit1313
    WhiteRabbit1313 Posts: 1,091 Member
    Listen, I understand feeling the need to "treat" yourself to junk food (though your mouth and brain are the only ones getting the "treat"), and that is perfectly fine. But you can't deny so stubbornly that putting good, nutritious food into your body will improve anything in the long run. I am a vegetarian, and I live a pretty active lifestyle, so it's important that I consume enough calories, protein, and healthy fats. This is completely feasible with my diet, which excludes all meat and is low in other animal products, is very low in sugar and processed foods, and consists of mostly: vegetables, fruits, grains, legumes, nuts, and healthy fats. I'm telling you, I've been a vegetarian my whole life and have recently been eating even cleaner than I was in the past. And I feel so much better! Even for a guy, trying to bulk up, it is possible. You don't have to go vegetarian or anything, but stop eating so much junk food! Treat yourself in other ways. I mean really: pizza, kid's cereal, bacon, AND a cookie all in the same day??

    You're bulking up to look better, no? Well you will look (and feel) better if you eat healthy. No if's, and's, or but's. You can not dispute that logic any further.

    I'm not saying your goal isn't attainable with your diet, but the results will be better if you greatly reduce the amount of bad food going into your body and feed it fuel it can utilize. You need nutrients and vitamins, and (honestly?) how much of that is there in pizza, kid's cereal, bacon, and a cookie? Just think about it. I'm done.

    Ok, I thought about it. Here are my thoughts:

    a) I'm not a guy. I'm a woman. Who is bulking.

    b) I'm glad you found a way of eating that works well for you and makes you happy and makes you feel good. That is important.

    c) Many people find that type of diet to be unsustainable in the long run; people who promote restrictive diets as the ONLY way to reach one's goals often outshout everybody else, leading inexperienced people to assume that it is in fact the ONLY way to reach one's goals, when it is, in fact, not.

    d) The way that I am eating works well for me and makes me happy and makes me feel good. It's also permitted me to get in the best shape of my entire life: I have never been so lean, had so much muscle, or been so strong.

    e) So yes, I do dispute your assertion (not "logic" - there is nothing logical about your assertion and there are many counterexamples to your one example)

    f) Tell me one thing that's wrong with pizza (bread, tomato sauce, cheese), cereal (grains, milk, sugar), bacon (delicious) or a cookie (flour, milk, sugar, butter, chocolate). Or what's wrong with eating them all in the same day? I reached my protein, fat and carb goals, as well as my micronutrient requirements (you'll note I also consumed a lot of veggies, fruits and grain products in addition to other meat and eggs). Even if there was something wrong with it (and there's not), it was one day. Big woop.

    g) "There are truly VERY few foods that are actively bad for you. Most of the foods that we identify as “bad”, are simply low or devoid of micro-nutrients, minerals, fiber and other things like phytochemicals and protein that can be beneficial for you. These foods only become a problem when they occur frequently and with enough magnitude (frequency and magnitude!) to replace a significant enough portion of your diet that you become deficient in beneficial nutrients.

    Once our nutrient needs are met, we don’t get extra credit for eating more nutritious food! It’s not as though we have a health food critic living in our esophagus that has a control box that he switches from “get leaner and healthier” to “get fatter and unhealthier” every time he spots “good” or “bad” food.

    Thus, a healthy diet should be inclusionary vs. exclusionary; focused around including healthy foods, not excluding “unhealthy” foods. Meet your nutrient needs, and feel free to eat things that you may have traditionally seen as “bad” in moderation; so that you are still meeting your allotted caloric intake for your weight loss goals. Don’t make the mistake of looking at foods as “good” or “bad!” Good diets can include “bad” foods and bad diets can include “good” foods. Don’t get too caught up with what you have for lunch, because it is not a singular choice that will determine the success of your health and fitness goals, it is the balanced lifestyle you commit to long term!" - Eric Helms

    Ok, now I'm done too.

    tumblr_inline_mg4j25xqL91qabw0a.gif

    ^^This.
  • LolBroScience
    LolBroScience Posts: 4,537 Member
    Listen, I understand feeling the need to "treat" yourself to junk food (though your mouth and brain are the only ones getting the "treat"), and that is perfectly fine. But you can't deny so stubbornly that putting good, nutritious food into your body will improve anything in the long run. I am a vegetarian, and I live a pretty active lifestyle, so it's important that I consume enough calories, protein, and healthy fats. This is completely feasible with my diet, which excludes all meat and is low in other animal products, is very low in sugar and processed foods, and consists of mostly: vegetables, fruits, grains, legumes, nuts, and healthy fats. I'm telling you, I've been a vegetarian my whole life and have recently been eating even cleaner than I was in the past. And I feel so much better! Even for a guy, trying to bulk up, it is possible. You don't have to go vegetarian or anything, but stop eating so much junk food! Treat yourself in other ways. I mean really: pizza, kid's cereal, bacon, AND a cookie all in the same day??

    You're bulking up to look better, no? Well you will look (and feel) better if you eat healthy. No if's, and's, or but's. You can not dispute that logic any further.

    I'm not saying your goal isn't attainable with your diet, but the results will be better if you greatly reduce the amount of bad food going into your body and feed it fuel it can utilize. You need nutrients and vitamins, and (honestly?) how much of that is there in pizza, kid's cereal, bacon, and a cookie? Just think about it. I'm done.

    BRB, taking bulking advice from an 18 year old vegetarian female..

    Your body cannot tell the difference between the "clean" and "processed" foods.. it only identifies the macros and how they impact the body. That being said, I agree nutritionally dense should comprise the majority of one's intake to reach micro goals. However, you're looking at things through a very small scope...

    Good luck hitting 3,000+ cals eating chicken and broccoli. Throwing in a mix of nurtitionally dense and more calorically dense foods makes it much more attainable.
  • __freckles__
    __freckles__ Posts: 1,238 Member
    I don't completely deprive myself; I treat myself to junk food (not necessarily fast food) a couple times a week. How long should a bulk phase last for? I assume it's for however long it takes to get you the physique you want. I was planning to keep this up until about early May, and then hopefully start the cutting phase (for the summer!), and hope that I'm able to cut the fat.

    I had a question regarding fat. How many grams should I be having a day? I usually have around 130g, which I hope isn't too much. I have an avacado a day for the ridiculous amount of calories from it, but it also has a lot of fat, which I'm worried about. Should I find an alternative to it, or just keep with what I've been doing so far?

    Thanks again! :)

    You got it: the length of a bulk is usually determined by looks, weight, and body fat%. Basically, you bulk until it's "too high". This number will depend on the person's comfort level and where they started out. Usually, the recommendation for guys who are super-concerned about physique/appearance is to start bulking when they're below 10% bf and then bulk up until they're around 15%. BUT. You're a young guy, you've got piles of testosterone, you're still growing - you're really at your prime in terms of ability to put muscle on right now. If it was me, I wouldn't worry about starting bulking at a bit higher bf%. I'd be eating like a beast and hitting the weights hard and enjoying the gains. Just watch your waistline; if your pants don't fit anymore, then it might be time to cut ;) Going until May sounds like a good plan - you should see pretty good results by then. You can always go longer than that if everything's going well.

    As for dietary fat, a typical recommendation is at least 0.35g/lb body mass, so for you that's about 51g. This is a MINIMUM, just at the 125g of protein would be a MINIMUM. Personally, I find that value low. I generally take in about 80-90g/day and I'm 140 lbs. Dietary fat wont turn into body fat (unless, like anything else, you overeat) - it's just another calorie source and in fact it's super-important for hormone regulation. In my opinion, your 100g/day is fine. Sometimes people who eat really high fat end up sacrificing a lot of carbs, which can affect performance in the gym (they're an important energy source). But, if you're feeling good, performing well in the gym, and getting your protein in while eating 100g a day, then it's all good.

    Here's an article you might find useful, a good overview about bulk/cut cycles: http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/general-philosophies-of-muscle-mass-gain.html

    Tagging because awesome.
  • ILiftHeavyAcrylics
    ILiftHeavyAcrylics Posts: 27,732 Member
    Listen, I understand feeling the need to "treat" yourself to junk food (though your mouth and brain are the only ones getting the "treat"), and that is perfectly fine. But you can't deny so stubbornly that putting good, nutritious food into your body will improve anything in the long run. I am a vegetarian, and I live a pretty active lifestyle, so it's important that I consume enough calories, protein, and healthy fats. This is completely feasible with my diet, which excludes all meat and is low in other animal products, is very low in sugar and processed foods, and consists of mostly: vegetables, fruits, grains, legumes, nuts, and healthy fats. I'm telling you, I've been a vegetarian my whole life and have recently been eating even cleaner than I was in the past. And I feel so much better! Even for a guy, trying to bulk up, it is possible. You don't have to go vegetarian or anything, but stop eating so much junk food! Treat yourself in other ways. I mean really: pizza, kid's cereal, bacon, AND a cookie all in the same day??

    You're bulking up to look better, no? Well you will look (and feel) better if you eat healthy. No if's, and's, or but's. You can not dispute that logic any further.

    I'm not saying your goal isn't attainable with your diet, but the results will be better if you greatly reduce the amount of bad food going into your body and feed it fuel it can utilize. You need nutrients and vitamins, and (honestly?) how much of that is there in pizza, kid's cereal, bacon, and a cookie? Just think about it. I'm done.

    Ok, I thought about it. Here are my thoughts:

    a) I'm not a guy. I'm a woman. Who is bulking.

    b) I'm glad you found a way of eating that works well for you and makes you happy and makes you feel good. That is important.

    c) Many people find that type of diet to be unsustainable in the long run; people who promote restrictive diets as the ONLY way to reach one's goals often outshout everybody else, leading inexperienced people to assume that it is in fact the ONLY way to reach one's goals, when it is, in fact, not.

    d) The way that I am eating works well for me and makes me happy and makes me feel good. It's also permitted me to get in the best shape of my entire life: I have never been so lean, had so much muscle, or been so strong.

    e) So yes, I do dispute your assertion (not "logic" - there is nothing logical about your assertion and there are many counterexamples to your one example)

    f) Tell me one thing that's wrong with pizza (bread, tomato sauce, cheese), cereal (grains, milk, sugar), bacon (delicious) or a cookie (flour, milk, sugar, butter, chocolate). Or what's wrong with eating them all in the same day? I reached my protein, fat and carb goals, as well as my micronutrient requirements (you'll note I also consumed a lot of veggies, fruits and grain products in addition to other meat and eggs). Even if there was something wrong with it (and there's not), it was one day. Big woop.

    g) "There are truly VERY few foods that are actively bad for you. Most of the foods that we identify as “bad”, are simply low or devoid of micro-nutrients, minerals, fiber and other things like phytochemicals and protein that can be beneficial for you. These foods only become a problem when they occur frequently and with enough magnitude (frequency and magnitude!) to replace a significant enough portion of your diet that you become deficient in beneficial nutrients.

    Once our nutrient needs are met, we don’t get extra credit for eating more nutritious food! It’s not as though we have a health food critic living in our esophagus that has a control box that he switches from “get leaner and healthier” to “get fatter and unhealthier” every time he spots “good” or “bad” food.

    Thus, a healthy diet should be inclusionary vs. exclusionary; focused around including healthy foods, not excluding “unhealthy” foods. Meet your nutrient needs, and feel free to eat things that you may have traditionally seen as “bad” in moderation; so that you are still meeting your allotted caloric intake for your weight loss goals. Don’t make the mistake of looking at foods as “good” or “bad!” Good diets can include “bad” foods and bad diets can include “good” foods. Don’t get too caught up with what you have for lunch, because it is not a singular choice that will determine the success of your health and fitness goals, it is the balanced lifestyle you commit to long term!" - Eric Helms

    Ok, now I'm done too.

    tumblr_inline_mg4j25xqL91qabw0a.gif

    This.

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