Is it time to switch to bulking?

7L551
7L551 Posts: 82 Member
in Health and Weight Loss
Hello everyone,
I started with 98Kg (216 lbs) and reduced it to 85 Kg (187 lbs) at first but now it started to slow down greatly and I am at around 83 Kg (183 lbs) (knowing the fact that I do 1 hour of Elliptical 4-5 days a week)
My Height: 68.9 inches (175 cm (5' 9")) Age 21 Male.

According to some websites the ideal weight for me is around 128 - 173 lbs

So! Elliptical has almost no effect on my losing weight journey Therefore I was thinking maybe I should be focusing the most if not all on weights and body building? I want to bulk and build big muscles.

Do you guys find that a smart idea and that focusing the most on weights & machines will reduce the fat faster than the elliptical?
I will start eating more of protein and fibers (rice mostly) when I know for sure what am mostly focusing on.

Thanks :)
And if you guys have any other suggestions please throw them at me :D

Replies

  • fushigi1988
    fushigi1988 Posts: 519 Member
    Do you also do strength training? Every day elliptical is not that effective, try to at least switch up on cardio. I prefer to do weight 2-3 times a week, and cardio 3 times a week, i switch between running, walking, cycling and swimming, whatever I feel like that day.
    Helps to keep it interesting and challenging for your body.
  • JesterMFP
    JesterMFP Posts: 3,596 Member
    I don't have an opinion on whether it's time to bulk or not - hopefully others will weigh in - but whatever your goals, getting adequate protein and incorporating resistance work would be very beneficial. You don't have to wait until you're bulking to do those things. Even if you're still cutting, you want to hold onto the lean mass that you have now.
  • 7L551
    7L551 Posts: 82 Member
    Do you also do strength training? Every day elliptical is not that effective, try to at least switch up on cardio. I prefer to do weight 2-3 times a week, and cardio 3 times a week, i switch between running, walking, cycling and swimming, whatever I feel like that day.
    Helps to keep it interesting and challenging for your body.

    I do strength training along with the cardio almost every day (expect 1 day that is only cardio)
    Seems like I should be switching my cardio method.. I'll try your suggestion with switching to cycling, treadmill and others every day and hopefully that would give my body a new challenge :)
    Thanks for your reply
    I don't have an opinion on whether it's time to bulk or not - hopefully others will weigh in - but whatever your goals, getting adequate protein and incorporating resistance work would be very beneficial. You don't have to wait until you're bulking to do those things. Even if you're still cutting, you want to hold onto the lean mass that you have now.

    Agreed, I am currently doing an hour of weights in addition to the 30 min - 1 hour of cardio but was wondering if I should focus more on the bulking at this stage.. I'll try JesterMFP's suggestion first and see if it changes my situation.
    Thanks for the info :)
  • navyrigger46
    navyrigger46 Posts: 1,301 Member
    Your mileage may vary, but personally, I do about 75% strength training to 25% cardio. See ticker for results. As for it being time to bulk, I'm two inches taller than you, and I anticipate I won't shift to a bulk until I drop below 180, and I have a pretty good amount of muscle already. Take that for what it's worth, only you will know when it's time to bulk, cut, or maintain. In any case, I would up your strength training and cut that cardio back a good bit.

    Rigger
  • 3laine75
    3laine75 Posts: 3,069 Member
    Yes, time to hit the weights. The sooner the better - you don't have to bulk yet if you don't want to. Adding strength training while at deficit will help you preserve and strengthen the lean muscle you already have.
  • Capt_Apollo
    Capt_Apollo Posts: 9,026 Member
    bulking and strength training are not synonymous. bulking is generally eating at a calorie surplus, in order to buiild strength or size, or both.

    if you are asking if it is time to start strength training, then yes it is. depending on a number of factors, you will see great results by strength training 3-4 times a week, and doing 2-3 days a week of cardio, while continuing to eat at a calorie deficit.
  • SaintGiff
    SaintGiff Posts: 3,679 Member
    I don't have an opinion on whether it's time to bulk or not - hopefully others will weigh in - but whatever your goals, getting adequate protein and incorporating resistance work would be very beneficial. You don't have to wait until you're bulking to do those things. Even if you're still cutting, you want to hold onto the lean mass that you have now.

    I swear, every thread I read either your or rocka has already said exactly what I was going to say.
  • cwolfman13
    cwolfman13 Posts: 41,865 Member
    What's your BF%? I wouldn't bulk if I were higher than 12% BF...optimally I'd say 8-10% so you could bulk to around 15%BF and put on a nice bit of muscle because you'll be able to bulk longer.

    You will not lose fat on a bulk..you will put fat on in a bulk. If you still want to burn fat, you need to stay in your cut. Your diet is going to have far more impact on your fat loss than either cardio or weight training. That said, I would do both...I do Oly lifting 3x weekly and I get out on my bike for an hour or so 3-4 days per week...so I'm about 50/50 cardio and weight training.

    If you are relatively new to the weight room I would recommend the book Starting Strength and doing that program for awhile. You will build a nice foundation of functional strength and you'll get a lot of exposure to the big compound lifts that are the foundation of pretty much any good lifting routine. Both that exposure and good foundation of strength will be serve you well down the road whether you want to go Oly, power lifting, or body building.
  • ell_v131
    ell_v131 Posts: 349 Member
    Bulk means eating above maintenance. That will almost surely not help you lose any fat, as your intake will be higher than maintenance in order to be able to build muscle.

    AS you get lighter, your body expands less energy to perform workouts. So you need to workout harder/longer/differently than before.

    I don't think a bulk will help you, you still have fat to lose and for that you need to be in caloric deficit, the opposite to bulk.
    Did you recalculate your TDEE with your new weight? Remember that 80% of weight/fat loss is diet, then exercise.

    So the first step you need to take is in the kitchen. Make sure you are eating at deficit, use a kitchen scale and make sure your protein intake is about 1g/lb of lean bodymass or 0.8g/lb of bodyweight. This will help you maintain the muscle.

    You said you do strength training: do you progressively overload, or do the same thing over and over? Check out some programs like Stronglifts 5x5 to help you get the most out of your workouts.

    If you go into a bulk right now, you will gain weight - muscle if you lift heavy along with some fat.
  • QuietBloom
    QuietBloom Posts: 5,413 Member
    You really can't bulk AND lose fat. To build muscle, you have to eat at a surplus. To reveal the muscle that you already have and to strengthen them, lift weights and eat at a slight deficit.
  • errorist
    errorist Posts: 142 Member
    You are the same height as me (although you're 14 years younger). I'm on my way down from just over 100 kilos (220 lbs). I hit a stall over Christmas at 79.5 kilos (175 lbs). In an attempt to respond to this, I've done a few things. I've slightly reduced my daily calories, become even more accurate with logging, eaten back fewer exercise calories, continued with strength training twice a week, and added in a third cardio session a week. Things are starting to move in the right direction now. I don't plan to think about recomposition until I'm stable at 72 kilos (159 lb). Add me if you want.
  • Unknown
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  • 7L551
    7L551 Posts: 82 Member
    Your mileage may vary, but personally, I do about 75% strength training to 25% cardio. See ticker for results. As for it being time to bulk, I'm two inches taller than you, and I anticipate I won't shift to a bulk until I drop below 180, and I have a pretty good amount of muscle already. Take that for what it's worth, only you will know when it's time to bulk, cut, or maintain. In any case, I would up your strength training and cut that cardio back a good bit.

    Rigger

    Well I normally do 50/50 for cardio and weights (1 hour each) for either 4 or 5 days a week.
    But I agree with you about cutting it a bit.. I think I'll be doing 30 min of cardio and the rest for weights and strength so more like you :)
    Thanks for the tips it really help.
    Yes, time to hit the weights. The sooner the better - you don't have to bulk yet if you don't want to. Adding strength training while at deficit will help you preserve and strengthen the lean muscle you already have.

    Perfect, will keep on doing that then :D
    Thanks
    bulking and strength training are not synonymous. bulking is generally eating at a calorie surplus, in order to buiild strength or size, or both.

    if you are asking if it is time to start strength training, then yes it is. depending on a number of factors, you will see great results by strength training 3-4 times a week, and doing 2-3 days a week of cardio, while continuing to eat at a calorie deficit.

    Thanks, the way I do my training is that I always do cardio and strength together as I explained in this post at the first quote, but I am considering focusing 1 day on cardio alone while the rest for both.
    Thanks for the tips
    What's your BF%? I wouldn't bulk if I were higher than 12% BF...optimally I'd say 8-10% so you could bulk to around 15%BF and put on a nice bit of muscle because you'll be able to bulk longer.

    You will not lose fat on a bulk..you will put fat on in a bulk. If you still want to burn fat, you need to stay in your cut. Your diet is going to have far more impact on your fat loss than either cardio or weight training. That said, I would do both...I do Oly lifting 3x weekly and I get out on my bike for an hour or so 3-4 days per week...so I'm about 50/50 cardio and weight training.

    If you are relatively new to the weight room I would recommend the book Starting Strength and doing that program for awhile. You will build a nice foundation of functional strength and you'll get a lot of exposure to the big compound lifts that are the foundation of pretty much any good lifting routine. Both that exposure and good foundation of strength will be serve you well down the road whether you want to go Oly, power lifting, or body building.

    Ok so according to my very recent calculations with a long string and an online simulator it said that I am around 18%, so am not sure if that is too much :/

    Thanks for the program suggestion I'll definitely check it out.
    I currently do the same thing as you with 1 hour on the Elliptical and 40 min - 1 hour with the weights and machines but I am thinking of switching to the bike and start with 30 min for the first week or 2 and then if I see change might jump it to an hour depending on how my body likes it.... I'll have to try new cardiac machines because I think my body got used to the old elliptical and I need to surprise it.

    Regarding the eating I already eat very low amount of calories so that is a huge problem and I am trying to fix it.... I'll try to eat more meals (I'll go for a chicken breast or a Salad during 4 PM and before my workout)

    Thanks again :D
  • 7L551
    7L551 Posts: 82 Member
    Bulk means eating above maintenance. That will almost surely not help you lose any fat, as your intake will be higher than maintenance in order to be able to build muscle.

    AS you get lighter, your body expands less energy to perform workouts. So you need to workout harder/longer/differently than before.

    I don't think a bulk will help you, you still have fat to lose and for that you need to be in caloric deficit, the opposite to bulk.
    Did you recalculate your TDEE with your new weight? Remember that 80% of weight/fat loss is diet, then exercise.

    So the first step you need to take is in the kitchen. Make sure you are eating at deficit, use a kitchen scale and make sure your protein intake is about 1g/lb of lean bodymass or 0.8g/lb of bodyweight. This will help you maintain the muscle.

    You said you do strength training: do you progressively overload, or do the same thing over and over? Check out some programs like Stronglifts 5x5 to help you get the most out of your workouts.

    If you go into a bulk right now, you will gain weight - muscle if you lift heavy along with some fat.

    Well, I do 1 hour of each (Cardio + weights and machines) 4-5 days a week so I am not really focusing on bullking at the moment but I do eat around 150 grams of lean meat (if not a bit more) which is perfectly close to the calculations..
    In regards to me eating at defecit I am currently doing that and I eat (on average) around 900 calories a day since I eat 1 meal after my workout BUT I don't think that is a smart move and I will try to eat more to make it reach at least 1900 calories since my MFP suggests around 1860 and other websites give me the TDEE from 2500 - 2800 calories.

    regarding the weights, I try my best to increase the weight every day (if I can do it of course) and most of the times I feel comfy with increasing the weight so I am guessing that means that it is effective :P
    I follow a 3 day plan for overall body starting from the button to the top for each day.

    So yeah, I try to do both at the same time, and hopfuelly that should not really cause any troubles...
    Thank you for the great advice I'll definitely keep them in mind :D
    You really can't bulk AND lose fat. To build muscle, you have to eat at a surplus. To reveal the muscle that you already have and to strengthen them, lift weights and eat at a slight deficit.

    Agreed, I'll eat more calories but in the same time try to keep it minimal.
    Thanks for the advice :)
    You are the same height as me (although you're 14 years younger). I'm on my way down from just over 100 kilos (220 lbs). I hit a stall over Christmas at 79.5 kilos (175 lbs). In an attempt to respond to this, I've done a few things. I've slightly reduced my daily calories, become even more accurate with logging, eaten back fewer exercise calories, continued with strength training twice a week, and added in a third cardio session a week. Things are starting to move in the right direction now. I don't plan to think about recomposition until I'm stable at 72 kilos (159 lb). Add me if you want.

    Sent you a request :)
    Agreed, but I made the mistake of already going super low with my calorie intake (I go for around 700-900 calories a day) so now I guess I'll have to increase it a bit and make my body adjust to it BUT in the same time I'll try to switch my cardio training and switch to the bikes and other machines to surprise my body. I'll keep an eye on my weight and see if it is effective :)

    You are doing great BTW, amazing work keep it up :D
    YES! Lifting > boring cardio. You will thank yourself in 6 months

    I know right! XD I will surely do :)
  • fushigi1988
    fushigi1988 Posts: 519 Member
    Try to eat a bit more, 900 kcal is waaay too low.
    And 2 hours of working out seems a bit excessive, I'm getting great results with 45-60 minutes of strength training 3 times a week. Focus on the big muscle groups, deadlift, barbell squat, deadlift, stuff like that. You'll be done a lot faster.

    I'm working with the TDEE method, I keep my calories between BMR and TDEE (closest to TDEE) with this calculator: http://www.health-calc.com/diet/energy-expenditure-advanced
    It works for me, although I'm more focused on recomp. For weight loss you might want to go a bit lower (but not below BMR). You want to gain muscle too, so don't make your deficit too big.
  • ell_v131
    ell_v131 Posts: 349 Member
    Well, I do 1 hour of each (Cardio + weights and machines) 4-5 days a week so I am not really focusing on bullking at the moment but I do eat around 150 grams of lean meat (if not a bit more) which is perfectly close to the calculations..
    In regards to me eating at defecit I am currently doing that and I eat (on average) around 900 calories a day since I eat 1 meal after my workout BUT I don't think that is a smart move and I will try to eat more to make it reach at least 1900 calories since my MFP suggests around 1860 and other websites give me the TDEE from 2500 - 2800 calories.

    regarding the weights, I try my best to increase the weight every day (if I can do it of course) and most of the times I feel comfy with increasing the weight so I am guessing that means that it is effective :P
    I follow a 3 day plan for overall body starting from the button to the top for each day.

    So yeah, I try to do both at the same time, and hopfuelly that should not really cause any troubles...
    Thank you for the great advice I'll definitely keep them in mind :D

    Eating 150g of lean meat is not the same as eating 150g of protein. Keep in mind that 100g of chicken breast only has 21 grams of protein or so. so if you eat 150g chicken (at raw weight), you are getting about 30g protein only.

    Also you say you follow a 3 day strength program, full body, yet from your other comments I understand you strength train 4-5 times a week. If a program is designed for 3 days (probably with rest in between), then this is what you should follow. If you are able to perform it 5 times a week and on consecutive days sometimes, you are likely not pushing yourself hard enough. Either look for a 5 day split program if you want to keep working our 5 days a week (which is what I like) or adopt a 3 day program but stick to three days with rest (or maybe some cardio) in between. Have a look at the stronglifts website. Its a fantastic program for building strength.

    I think you made a good decision about upping your cals to 1900. This will give you more energy to push yourself in the gym and remember, those are NET calories if that's what MFP gives you. So you are supposed to eat your exercise calories back. If you don't eat them back, your body doesn't have enough fuel and it will tap into your muscle reserves as well as fat for the energy, which will not help your endeavor to retain muscle. With 1900 net calories it will be a walk in the park to reach your protein, I eat 1600 net and routinely go over 140g. It's a lot of meat :)
  • 7L551
    7L551 Posts: 82 Member
    Eating 150g of lean meat is not the same as eating 150g of protein. Keep in mind that 100g of chicken breast only has 21 grams of protein or so. so if you eat 150g chicken (at raw weight), you are getting about 30g protein only.

    Also you say you follow a 3 day strength program, full body, yet from your other comments I understand you strength train 4-5 times a week. If a program is designed for 3 days (probably with rest in between), then this is what you should follow. If you are able to perform it 5 times a week and on consecutive days sometimes, you are likely not pushing yourself hard enough. Either look for a 5 day split program if you want to keep working our 5 days a week (which is what I like) or adopt a 3 day program but stick to three days with rest (or maybe some cardio) in between. Have a look at the stronglifts website. Its a fantastic program for building strength.

    I think you made a good decision about upping your cals to 1900. This will give you more energy to push yourself in the gym and remember, those are NET calories if that's what MFP gives you. So you are supposed to eat your exercise calories back. If you don't eat them back, your body doesn't have enough fuel and it will tap into your muscle reserves as well as fat for the energy, which will not help your endeavor to retain muscle. With 1900 net calories it will be a walk in the park to reach your protein, I eat 1600 net and routinely go over 140g. It's a lot of meat :)

    Thanks,
    I agree with you about the 150 grams of protien :P but most of my food contains lean meet in it (5% fat and the rest is lean) so I put a big amount of it in most of my food anyways :)

    regarding the 3 day plan, what I meant is that I follow a 3 days plan for each muscle... Ok so I know I did not clarify this :P I'll try again. Basically I go to the gym 4-5 days a week on the 4th day I do pure cardio and no weights/strength as a rest for my muscles.
    So on day 1 (of the 3 day plan) I do upper chest day which is chest and biceps, on Day 2 I do Back and shoulders and on Day 3 I do Abs and legs. and the cycle repeats.
    So every week it is like Day 1, Day 2, Day 3, CARDIO, Day 1, Rest, Rest, Day 2,.... and so on.

    Agreed, in the last few days I as you said exactly, felt tired and bored? when going to the gym, So I started to do some research and then you told me the same thing and figured out that I am doing this wrong and I needed to eat more :)
    So thanks again for informing me about this :D
  • 7L551
    7L551 Posts: 82 Member
    Try to eat a bit more, 900 kcal is waaay too low.
    And 2 hours of working out seems a bit excessive, I'm getting great results with 45-60 minutes of strength training 3 times a week. Focus on the big muscle groups, deadlift, barbell squat, deadlift, stuff like that. You'll be done a lot faster.

    I'm working with the TDEE method, I keep my calories between BMR and TDEE (closest to TDEE) with this calculator: http://www.health-calc.com/diet/energy-expenditure-advanced
    It works for me, although I'm more focused on recomp. For weight loss you might want to go a bit lower (but not below BMR). You want to gain muscle too, so don't make your deficit too big.

    Thanks, well I just checked it (BTW it looks amazing and it is great) so my BMR seems to be 1950 (2000) and TDEE is 3700 :O
    I think I'll do as you said and follow the BMR and keep my intake to no lower than 2000... most of the other websites suggested 2500 - 2800 so give or take 300 from the 2000 should be good I guess.
    I just wonder what to eat now :P

    Regarding the strength training, to be completely honest with you I most of the times only do strength training with the weight machines and I don't do much with barbells or dumbbells because I feel like if I don't do it correctly I might end up hurting myself... But I think I should at least start with the squats since they seem to be the most fixed ones. Not so sure about the deadlift yet :P so might give that some time.

    Thanks for the advice :D really appreciate them
  • Capt_Apollo
    Capt_Apollo Posts: 9,026 Member


    Regarding the strength training, to be completely honest with you I most of the times only do strength training with the weight machines and I don't do much with barbells or dumbbells because I feel like if I don't do it correctly I might end up hurting myself... But I think I should at least start with the squats since they seem to be the most fixed ones. Not so sure about the deadlift yet :P so might give that some time.

    Thanks for the advice :D really appreciate them

    thats funny, because i feel that if i don't use the machines correctly, i'll hurt myself. the machines are very very ridged, and must be used exactly as laid out, where as barbells use the most perfect machine ever- the human body. i feel that the human body naturally adjusts to the best way to do things. sure, there are risks, and the possibility of injury, but that holds true for everything.

    the key to most barbell training is to puff out the chest and keep your abs tight. that will help keep your back straight.

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