Oh NO! I have been using the "smith" machine!

Kabuhtu
Kabuhtu Posts: 85 Member
in Fitness and Exercise
So, I never knew what a smith machine was, just that it was a horrible thing to use. At my gym I have been using this "HOIST" machine for squats because the rack scares me. Come to find out its a smith machine by a different name. Now I have to go use the rack because I have heard time and time again that the smith machine is the devil.

Here is what I need to know:
If I can do squats on the "smith machine" with 30lbs, can I start on the free barbell with 30lbs? or should I go with ten? Of course I will do a warm up with a bare bar but I was just wondering if I am really lifting all the weight that I think I am when using the smith machine.

How far away should my spotter be when doing squats? (Its my boyfriend) He seems to think he needs to be practically touching the bar when I do anything that includes the barbell...

Thats all and thanks in advance. :)

Replies

  • singingflutelady
    singingflutelady Posts: 8,736 Member
    The Olympic barbell that you use with the rack is 45 lbs so if you but on 30lbs it would by 75 lbs. I don't know if you are ready to squat 75 yet
  • ndj1979
    ndj1979 Posts: 29,136 Member
    start with the bar only and see how you feel …

    If you have only been doing squats in smith, you are going to want to check your from because the smith tends to keep you a bit too upright...
  • SezxyStef
    SezxyStef Posts: 15,267 Member
    I have never used a smith machine but heard they make lifting easier....try 10lbs lighter...

    As for your spotter I don't use one with the squat rack but if I did I wouldn't want him touching me or the bar until I asked.
  • singingflutelady
    singingflutelady Posts: 8,736 Member
    I don't use a spotter but I have seen people spotting and they are not near the bar for squats. Their hands are near the lifter's sides ready to help them stand up again if you need help. The rack has safety features (like the bars that go across so that if you fall/have to drop the weight it doesn't fall on you. I have never had to drop the weight before an have only seen I person ever do that and he was lifting super heavy
  • rduhlir
    rduhlir Posts: 3,550 Member
    I think the bar on the Smith Machine is like 20lbs or so....so you have been squatting roughly 50 on the SM. As the poster above said, the Olympic Bar is about 45 lbs, so I would start with the bar and then go from there.
  • ndj1979
    ndj1979 Posts: 29,136 Member
    i thought it was like 30# on smith …at least that is what it says on the side of the one at my gym….
  • tyrsnbdr
    tyrsnbdr Posts: 234 Member
    Usually a smith machine "bar" weights about 15 lbs. So that would put you at 45 lbs, which is the bar, which is fine. Spotting for squats is hard to explain, but the heavy the weight the more ready they need to be. The main purpose for spotting a squat, is to keep you from leaning to far forward at the waist. He should be able to do that and give you your space.
  • singingflutelady
    singingflutelady Posts: 8,736 Member
    I don't know the weight of the smith machine bar.. I only use the smith machine for inverted rows
  • micheleb15
    micheleb15 Posts: 1,418 Member
    Start with the bar and increase the weight slowly until you feel comfortable. There will be a shift in balance without the smith machine. There is no right or wrong - it depends on you. And, I don't want this to come out wrong, but if you need a spotter for 75lbs then it is too heavy to start. You most likely will not need a spotter for this lift.
  • rduhlir
    rduhlir Posts: 3,550 Member
    i thought it was like 30# on smith …at least that is what it says on the side of the one at my gym….

    They can very, it all depends on the one that the OP was using.
  • Escape_Artist
    Escape_Artist Posts: 1,155 Member
    Regardless, you should ALWAYS start with the empty bar. Even if you think you could squat more it's safer that way.
    I would even go as far as to say start home with a broom.

    Squating with the Smith and with the BB are two very different things, make sure you are comfortable with the movement and use good form, then add weight from there slowly.


    :flowerforyou:
  • singingflutelady
    singingflutelady Posts: 8,736 Member
    The people I see with spotters are usually squatting 300 lbs or more
  • chrisrc131
    chrisrc131 Posts: 45 Member
    Do you have any idea what the bar on that machine weighs? As I understand it that can vary quite a bit.

    The bar in the squat rack is normally an Olympic bar, so about 45 pounds. See how squatting just the bar feels and decide what you want to do from there. Because the smith machine doesn't allow you to squat with exactly the form you should be using there would be some adjustment anyway.

    As for spotting... most people in a typical gym don't use a spotter on squat. The rack has safety bars and you should make sure they're properly set and practice failing a rep onto those bars so you know how and so you won't panic if you need to do it for real. It's not like a bench press where you'll suddenly have all the weight on your chest and be flailing and struggling for breath if you fail. You just drop the bar down your back or fall forward if you have to.

    It s possible to spot for a squat, and people who are training hardcore for the lift do it, but it really is a pretty hands on affair. I mean, I don't really care much what the other people in the gym think of me, but I'd feel pretty weird doing this with my wife in public.
    http://breakingmuscle.com/strength-conditioning/5-spotting-techniques-and-rules-everyone-must-know

    There are other ways to do it, and with only 30 pounds they'd be reasonable. But if you progress to heavier lifts it would basically boils down to a person on each end of the bar catching it if you fail - or pretty much just doing what the safety bars are there for.
  • SHBoss1673
    SHBoss1673 Posts: 7,161 Member
    So, as a certified Olympic weight lifting coach, I can tell you that the recommended way to fail a squat is to drop the bar and step forward using your hips (when doing a back squat), using the hands to push the bar up and back from your body. This would normally preclude a spotter, as a spotter could be hurt during the release. This doesn't mean you can't use a spotter, it just means be damned sure you can handle the weight if you do, or else you could break someone's shins or foot.

    I would agree with progressively loading the bar with weight until you feel slightly uncomfortable and always try to perform squats in front of a mirror and if possible have a mirror to the side as well. This may look narcissistic, but it's super important to have correct form with a squat, especially if you've been using a Smith machine. In my experience, smith machine users tend to bend way too far forward at the hips.

    Remember, a correct squat uses the heels of the feet, progressively powering down under control (go slow and watch your form) through the hips with a neutral or slightly concave back arch. When at the load point (the bottom of the squat), you should ALWAYS stop before your gluts begin to roll into a convex arch (I.E. your butt begins to roll down and creates a bump), no matter how high or low that is. NEVER go below that point as it can cause back issues. Also keep your chin neutral or slightly forward to force a neutral upper spine and keep your shoulders from rolling. From the load position you should explosively push off the heels watching for form keeping your heels, hips, and shoulders in a vertical line. If any of those 3 points are out of center, you risk injury.
  • starbucksbuzz
    starbucksbuzz Posts: 466 Member
    The squat rack is your friend!! Really there is no reason to be scared, just take it easy the first time. Shboss gives great tips, listen to him :)
  • smaclean8
    smaclean8 Posts: 18 Member
    If you want to move from Smith to free weights and aren't 100% comfortable with barbell squatting, you can also try dumbbell variations. In fact, using goblet squats with a heavy-ish dumbbell can help you feel out free weight squatting, allows for great depth, and you don't need a spotter.

    Otherwise if you are truly ready to barbell squat, I recommend reading Starting Strength first and learning how to squat properly via its descriptions of set up and photos. You'll have more confidence under the bar if you do a little studying first, and that's a big part of success in the rack, imo.
  • gerard54
    gerard54 Posts: 1,107 Member
    i personally like it, i feel like it keeps your form pretty good and you can change angles to work different parts of the body...
  • SHBoss1673
    SHBoss1673 Posts: 7,161 Member
    i personally like it, i feel like it keeps your form pretty good and you can change angles to work different parts of the body...

    Are you talking about foot positioning? Because that's the only thing you should be able to safely change with squats. Other than that your form should be very very static, there are no alternate angles with squats. You should always be a straight line from the heels through the hips through the shoulders with your spine in a neutral position.

    I'm not trying to criticize, it's just that saying to an inexperienced squatter that you can change angles is extremely dangerous.
  • Kabuhtu
    Kabuhtu Posts: 85 Member
    Start with the bar and increase the weight slowly until you feel comfortable. There will be a shift in balance without the smith machine. There is no right or wrong - it depends on you. And, I don't want this to come out wrong, but if you need a spotter for 75lbs then it is too heavy to start. You most likely will not need a spotter for this lift.

    To be honest, I DONT need him there as a spotter. Especially on a smith machine. I told him to stand at a distance and he threw a fit. I am just going to subtly show him this thread with out saying "YOURE WRONG!" He really annoyed me with being so close like I wasnt going to be able to do it. Lol. :)
  • k8blujay2
    k8blujay2 Posts: 4,941 Member
    Why is the smith machine an inherently bad thing? It's all I have at my gym... so it's either that or dumbbell squats... as I don't have anyone to spot me nor can I get the heavier weights on so I can squat.
  • Lleldiranne
    Lleldiranne Posts: 5,516 Member
    The smith machine can do some funny things with your form. I would start unweighted, do some squats and check your form. You're going to find that you have to balance yourself more. There may be a tendency to lean forward to balance - try not to. One you have your form pretty well, then try it with the bar alone (45 pounds). If that's still easy, go ahead and add some weights to it.

    As you go up in weight, make sure you use all the safeties available on the power rack. There are bars that go across, set them just below where the bottom of your squat ends. If you lose your balance or can't stand back up, they will catch your weight bar so you don't hurt yourself with it.

    Enjoy!
  • cw822
    cw822 Posts: 107

    Otherwise if you are truly ready to barbell squat, I recommend reading Starting Strength first and learning how to squat properly via its descriptions of set up and photos. You'll have more confidence under the bar if you do a little studying first, and that's a big part of success in the rack, imo.

    I used Starting Strength to move away from using Smith machine for squats (kept hearing how you can't get proper squat form using it), and it was a great help in learning to understand the proper form. I started at 30# because I was concerned about not being able to lift any heavier than that and wanted to be sure I got my form down.
  • Kabuhtu
    Kabuhtu Posts: 85 Member
    And thanks everyone! I am going to walk up to that rack and act like I own it! I have decided to have someone video me during my workout too. So I can see my self from the side then reassess. I think I do well with form from what I see when I look ahead in the mirror.
  • JoRocka
    JoRocka Posts: 17,525 Member
    The people I see with spotters are usually squatting 300 lbs or more

    why has no one commented on this?

    power rack- safety rails- no spotter. Having a single spotter on truly heavy lifts is useless- sure they can help you as long as it's a weight they can front squat/clean curl and control- so not much over 130 lbs- because if you fail- they have to get under the bar and pull it off you and then get it somewhere- it's wildly unsafe.

    Proper spotting on a squat requires either safety rails set to the proper height- OR two people on either side. To lift the bar. You cannot properly safely spot a squat from the back unless it's a lighter weight. And surprise surprise- you can use the rails for that.

    And if you aren't feeling like you can make a lift- no matter HOW light it is- you should ask for a spotter. or be set up with the proper equipment so you can do the exercise with the right safety. (Benching in the power rack if you have no spotter for example)

    Edit- anyone who lifts a barbell needs to know how to dump a weight properly. Period. Learn how to fail a lift- and learn how to dump it when you get in trouble as safely as possible. safely for YOU and safely for everyone around you.

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