Cutting and Bulking Questions

hearthemelody
hearthemelody Posts: 1,025 Member
in Fitness and Exercise
Hello All!

I am incredibly lucky that my husband wants to workout with me, and indeed has started doing Stronglifts 5x5 with me for the last couple of weeks.

My problem is this. When we discussed cutting, bulking, and calories, he insisted that he wanted to bulk up before anything else. I do not know if this is simply because he is male, but my concern is that he needs to lose some fat.

We agreed that it is hard to build strength on a calorie deficit, but I feel that he is obese enough that he would be one of the few that can build muscle and lose fat at the same time. Furthermore, I think his belly is interfering with his form on his squats (if not other lifts).

I love my husband and want what is best for him. I know this has to be his choice but I was wondering if there were any factors we were missing in our discussion?

For reference, he is 6'4" and 355 lbs. Since we are doing SL, I do not know his current full capabilities strength wise yet.

I am happy to answer any other questions!

Replies

  • The_Enginerd
    The_Enginerd Posts: 3,982 Member
    I'm relatively new to bulking/cutting... but he should get down to a healthy body fat before he even worries about the whole bulking/cutting thing. He will be gaining PLENTY of strength just starting out through neurological adaptation, and at that weight, he will probably put on some lean mass as well.
  • AJ_G
    AJ_G Posts: 4,158 Member
    He should absolutely be cutting, he's nowhere near the point where he should bulk. He can absolutely and will absolutely build strength at a deficit. Anyone can build strength on a deficit, building muscle on a deficit is a different story. The only people that can build muscle on a deficit are people who are obese, so your husband may very well build muscle on a deficit. He should be cutting, having him bulk at his weight is a terrible idea and not good for him.
  • Escape_Artist
    Escape_Artist Posts: 1,155 Member
    Strength can be built at a deficit without a problem. Building muscles is a whole other thing and you need a surplus for that. If he is overweight I cannot even suggest a recomp it would literally take forever.

    You can't really know how much muscle lies underneath the fat until you cut, the mucles start showing once the BF% goes down. I think he might wanna cut and then see where it gets him. If he wants to bulk then he could do it.

    Ok just saw his stats. He should definitely cut. And then bulk if need be
  • JoRocka
    JoRocka Posts: 17,525 Member
    strength gains and size gains are not even anywhere near the same thing.

    He will absolutely get stronger.

    He does not need to get bigger.
  • darrensurrey
    darrensurrey Posts: 3,942 Member
    I agree with the above saying that he should reduce his weight first. However, to keep his enthusiasm up, if he wants to bulk, let him. He will soon arrive at the conclusion that he needs to get rid of some of the fat.
  • hearthemelody
    hearthemelody Posts: 1,025 Member
    strength gains and size gains are not even anywhere near the same thing.

    He will absolutely get stronger.

    He does not need to get bigger.

    My apologies for getting the two mixed up.

    I think he is afraid that if he cuts down his body size, there will be no muscle definition underneath it.
  • hearthemelody
    hearthemelody Posts: 1,025 Member
    I agree with the above saying that he should reduce his weight first. However, to keep his enthusiasm up, if he wants to bulk, let him. He will soon arrive at the conclusion that he needs to get rid of some of the fat.

    That is kind of where I am at right now, I just don't want there to be damage to him.
  • AJ_G
    AJ_G Posts: 4,158 Member
    strength gains and size gains are not even anywhere near the same thing.

    He will absolutely get stronger.

    He does not need to get bigger.

    My apologies for getting the two mixed up.

    I think he is afraid that if he cuts down his body size, there will be no muscle definition underneath it.

    That's irrelevant, he needs to get in the ballpark of a healthy weight before he even considers bulking
  • Hornsby
    Hornsby Posts: 10,322 Member
    strength gains and size gains are not even anywhere near the same thing.

    He will absolutely get stronger.

    He does not need to get bigger.

    My apologies for getting the two mixed up.

    I think he is afraid that if he cuts down his body size, there will be no muscle definition underneath it.

    He is wrong. Tell him so.
  • hearthemelody
    hearthemelody Posts: 1,025 Member
    He is wrong. Tell him so.

    Yay, someone who understands my marriage!! :laugh:
  • tyrsnbdr
    tyrsnbdr Posts: 234 Member
    I wish I'd bulk the first time I did it. I was 6'3" 245ish with the mushroom top. Lost 50lbs, had some muscle but I just got tired of cutting, and started eating again to bulk up. Fast forward 4 years, after recovering from a significant back injury, I just worked my way into gym lift again. I then just ate, lifted, and sleeped for 5 months without worring about my macros, just made sure I got a lot of protien. I can tell my legs, shoulders and back are alot bigger, but I didn't take any measurements, because I was hating my body.

    I cut for 2 months until Turkey day, made some great progress, decided I wasn't going to fight the holidays, did another min-bulk, and started cutting shortly after the new year. Started tracking bodyparts and wieght, and my arms are 1 whole inch bigger than 4 years ago!!

    I am signicantly happier with my progress right now than 4 years ago. Advice, let him work into the new routine for 4-6 months, then melt the ice and let out the awesomeness.
  • hearthemelody
    hearthemelody Posts: 1,025 Member
    He should absolutely be cutting, he's nowhere near the point where he should bulk. He can absolutely and will absolutely build strength at a deficit. Anyone can build strength on a deficit, building muscle on a deficit is a different story. The only people that can build muscle on a deficit are people who are obese, so your husband may very well build muscle on a deficit. He should be cutting, having him bulk at his weight is a terrible idea and not good for him.

    That is what I thought!
  • Yanicka1
    Yanicka1 Posts: 4,564 Member
    At 355 lbs he has to cut before bulking. I am sure he already have a good muscle mass already. Tell him to stop whining and get with the program. ;)
  • hearthemelody
    hearthemelody Posts: 1,025 Member
    I wish I'd bulk the first time I did it. I was 6'3" 245ish with the mushroom top. Lost 50lbs, had some muscle but I just got tired of cutting, and started eating again to bulk up. Fast forward 4 years, after recovering from a significant back injury, I just worked my way into gym lift again. I then just ate, lifted, and sleeped for 5 months without worring about my macros, just made sure I got a lot of protien. I can tell my legs, shoulders and back are alot bigger, but I didn't take any measurements, because I was hating my body.

    I cut for 2 months until Turkey day, made some great progress, decided I wasn't going to fight the holidays, did another min-bulk, and started cutting shortly after the new year. Started tracking bodyparts and wieght, and my arms are 1 whole inch bigger than 4 years ago!!

    I am signicantly happier with my progress right now than 4 years ago. Advice, let him work into the new routine for 4-6 months, then melt the ice and let out the awesomeness.

    The only problem is, he is one inch taller and a hundred pounds heavier then you were.
  • hearthemelody
    hearthemelody Posts: 1,025 Member
    Strength can be built at a deficit without a problem. Building muscles is a whole other thing and you need a surplus for that. If he is overweight I cannot even suggest a recomp it would literally take forever.

    You can't really know how much muscle lies underneath the fat until you cut, the mucles start showing once the BF% goes down. I think he might wanna cut and then see where it gets him. If he wants to bulk then he could do it.

    Ok just saw his stats. He should definitely cut. And then bulk if need be

    You always have good points. Why aren't we friends?
  • hearthemelody
    hearthemelody Posts: 1,025 Member
    At 355 lbs he has to cut before bulking. I am sure he already have a good muscle mass already. Tell him to stop whining and get with the program. ;)

    I think that is a big part of it. He doesn't want to "diet" so he is masking it by saying "I am just bulking right now!"
  • AJ_G
    AJ_G Posts: 4,158 Member
    At 355 lbs he has to cut before bulking. I am sure he already have a good muscle mass already. Tell him to stop whining and get with the program. ;)

    I think that is a big part of it. He doesn't want to "diet" so he is masking it by saying "I am just bulking right now!"

    I think you're absolutely right, eating at a deficit is a big change when he hasn't been, but it's just something he has to do.

    BTW, your profile picture is awesome, that's one of my favorite movies of all time...
  • SideSteel
    SideSteel Posts: 11,068 Member
    Bulking would be insane given his stats. He needs to lose weight, period.
    Edit: typing from phone, I don't mean to be an *kitten* with my previous sentences.
  • darrensurrey
    darrensurrey Posts: 3,942 Member
    If he doesn't want to diet but wants to get strong, then why not encourage him to eat more protein for building muscle. He'll end up eating fewer carbs so should lose weight without realising. :happy: (My thinking being that there's only so much space to put food in and if he's eating lots of meat, he'll feel full sooner so will skip some carbs.)
  • hearthemelody
    hearthemelody Posts: 1,025 Member
    Bulking would be insane given his stats. He needs to lose weight, period.
    Edit: typing from phone, I don't mean to be an *kitten* with my previous sentences.

    I was not offended, rather honored that SS would visit my post!
  • hearthemelody
    hearthemelody Posts: 1,025 Member
    If he doesn't want to diet but wants to get strong, then why not encourage him to eat more protein for building muscle. He'll end up eating fewer carbs so should lose weight without realising. :happy: (My thinking being that there's only so much space to put food in and if he's eating lots of meat, he'll feel full sooner so will skip some carbs.)

    I REALLY wish it was that simple. I like the idea of offering something *instead of* the bad choices but I don't think it would work that way. Besides wouldn't he have to eat something like 284 grams of protein a day anyway??
  • darrensurrey
    darrensurrey Posts: 3,942 Member
    I REALLY wish it was that simple. I like the idea of offering something *instead of* the bad choices but I don't think it would work that way. Besides wouldn't he have to eat something like 284 grams of protein a day anyway??

    Maybe. It might work in your favour if he had to eat that much. That's over a kilo of chicken breast which equates to about 2200 kcals. If he can fit anything else in after eating that... :laugh:
  • BusyRaeNOTBusty
    BusyRaeNOTBusty Posts: 7,166 Member
    Maybe compromise. Suggest he eat at maintenance for a while. Then slowly see if you can convince him to do a deficit.


    But yeah, my husband won't listen to anything I say regarding to fitness even though is opinions are flat out wrong...
  • doughnutwretch
    doughnutwretch Posts: 498 Member
    I agree with other posters that he should definitely be in a cut right now. Part of the beauty of just starting out is what we call "newbie gains". Within the first 6 months to a year, a newbie can see substantial strength improvements if they are diligent about lifting while also maintaining a caloric deficit. This also comes with higher calorie burns throughout the day and when he does start losing fat, he'll start see that he has muscle definition and be motivated to continue cutting.
  • dmoppy
    dmoppy Posts: 45 Member
    I'm no SS and just starting this lifting thing about 3 months ago, but like a previous poster said he probably already has muscle under the fat just because of the weight he's carrying. I can’t do a leg press with his body weight, yet he can stand-up and function (I assume anyway) so he's been "lifting" for a while, so to speak. His goal should be to lift to preserve what he has, knowing he will see some strength gain even while cutting and may even add some muscle because he has so much to lose.

    I think the harder thing for me was not wanting to "slow down" my weight loss because it was so reinforcing to see the scale drop as quickly as I could manage so I didn't do anything but run for exercise. It worked but now I am trying to add back some of the muscle I may have lost too. Who knows how much if any I actually lost, but it's very cool to see some shoulders back even if it's mostly noob growth.

    So net/net: he needs to cut, do cardio and lift (although a trainer I have says you can do it all without any cardio but I think that would have been too slow for me to think it was working).
  • hearthemelody
    hearthemelody Posts: 1,025 Member
    Thank you all so much for the imput!

    I will definitely bring up these concerns to him.
  • hearthemelody
    hearthemelody Posts: 1,025 Member
    I'm no SS and just starting this lifting thing about 3 months ago, but like a previous poster said he probably already has muscle under the fat just because of the weight he's carrying. I can’t do a leg press with his body weight, yet he can stand-up and function (I assume anyway) so he's been "lifting" for a while, so to speak. His goal should be to lift to preserve what he has, knowing he will see some strength gain even while cutting and may even add some muscle because he has so much to lose.

    I think the harder thing for me was not wanting to "slow down" my weight loss because it was so reinforcing to see the scale drop as quickly as I could manage so I didn't do anything but run for exercise. It worked but now I am trying to add back some of the muscle I may have lost too. Who knows how much if any I actually lost, but it's very cool to see some shoulders back even if it's mostly noob growth.

    So net/net: he needs to cut, do cardio and lift (although a trainer I have says you can do it all without any cardio but I think that would have been too slow for me to think it was working).

    Oh, and his weight has started to affect his back and feet too.
  • Fullsterkur_woman
    Fullsterkur_woman Posts: 2,712 Member
    At 355 lbs he has to cut before bulking. I am sure he already have a good muscle mass already. Tell him to stop whining and get with the program. ;)

    I think that is a big part of it. He doesn't want to "diet" so he is masking it by saying "I am just bulking right now!"
    Well, you and I *are* already friends, and I would submit to you that if that's his attitude, there's nothing you can do or say to change it. When he wants to change, he will. You can set a good example in the meantime.

    My husband was never overweight, but I used to try to nag him to exercise. It didn't work, but I kept working out for myself. He's about to surpass a 500# deadlift any day now. I left off the nagging, and now he far surpasses me with all his training.
  • hearthemelody
    hearthemelody Posts: 1,025 Member
    And I am so glad we are friends!!

    You are right as well. I will probably bring it up one more time then drop it.

    Not my body.

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