There's more out there than Alpha/Beta Phallacies
QueenBishOTUniverse
Posts: 14,121 Member
in Chit-Chat
I’ve decided that if BB.com brahs get to base their entire world view on a completely misunderstood and old fashioned model of reproductive skew in communally breeding societies, the lovely lifting ladies of MFP need to pick an arbitrary and oversimplified behavioral reproductive model to base our treatment of males upon. Now, since my field of research is mostly ichthyological in nature, my examples will be based on fish breeding behaviors, however, this is also appropriate as the majority of work in reproductive skew is done at the ichthyo/herpo level since anything beyond observational analysis becomes exponentially more problematic when working with avian and especially mammalian models. So here we go ladies, I submit for your approval, the following reproductive models:
Option #1 The Clownfish:
In the clownfish model, females get to keep a harem of males. Females generally remain close to the established nesting site and only venture far away when the nest is threatened by an invading clownfish harem or a possible predator. Subordinate males are kept in line through the aggressive and dominating behavior of the larger female. Males are responsible for providing for the nest, bringing food back for the host anemone and the female. Subordinate males who please the female will be allowed to fertilize the eggs. Subordinate males who fail to please the female will be killed. Good new for the guys though, if the female gets eaten by a predator and you are the most dominant male, you get to sex change and become the new female!
Option #2 The Garibaldi:
If keeping a harem of males seems like too much work for you, you may prefer the Garibaldi model. Among the Garibaldi, males select and defend a nesting site. Prior to the breeding season, Garibaldi males spend weeks primping and pruning their nest site to make it as attractive as possible to potential female suitors, and of course the Garibaldi males are bright orange and flashy as compared to the females, because after all, boys need to look pretty. Once breeding season arrives females are able to choose from a veritable buffet of males doing their sexy dance. When they find a male they like, they deposit their eggs and leave, never to be bothered by emotionally clingy males or obnoxious offspring again. The males are then left to do all the work of caring for and protecting the fertilized eggs and young Garibaldi fish.
Option #3 The Seahorse:
If you prefer a “slightly” more equitable treatment of the sexes when it comes to reproduction, you might like the seahorse. Male seahorses still have to do all the work involved in child rearing, so don’t worry, you can still “hit it and quit it”, but you can feel good about yourself knowing that the male seahorse got to choose YOU as the most attractive mate. The male seahorse carries the fertilized eggs in a breeding pouch on his belly, and as he has a valuable limited resource, gets to have some say on who gets to use his “breeding pouch”. When he decides he’s ready to mate, he advertises himself to the females in the area. The larger and more physically aggressive females will then display and fight amongst themselves to establish who is the biggest and badest winning the honor of getting to mate with the available male.
Option #4 the Convict Cichlid
For the romantically old-fashioned, perhaps you would like the reproductive strategy espoused by the Convict Cichlid. Male and female cichlids mate for life (one of the overwhelmingly FEW species that have been shown to be truly monogamous). Males and females share equally in the responsibilities for preparing and defending the nest as well as for caring for the eggs and young cichlids as they grow.
So ladies, place your votes. Option 1 through 4, each lady gets only 1 vote to be tallied whenever I feel like it. And sorry guys, but you don’t get a vote. Cause I’m a clownfish.
TL;DR Human behavior is more complex then alpha/beta dichotomies.
Option #1 The Clownfish:
In the clownfish model, females get to keep a harem of males. Females generally remain close to the established nesting site and only venture far away when the nest is threatened by an invading clownfish harem or a possible predator. Subordinate males are kept in line through the aggressive and dominating behavior of the larger female. Males are responsible for providing for the nest, bringing food back for the host anemone and the female. Subordinate males who please the female will be allowed to fertilize the eggs. Subordinate males who fail to please the female will be killed. Good new for the guys though, if the female gets eaten by a predator and you are the most dominant male, you get to sex change and become the new female!
Option #2 The Garibaldi:
If keeping a harem of males seems like too much work for you, you may prefer the Garibaldi model. Among the Garibaldi, males select and defend a nesting site. Prior to the breeding season, Garibaldi males spend weeks primping and pruning their nest site to make it as attractive as possible to potential female suitors, and of course the Garibaldi males are bright orange and flashy as compared to the females, because after all, boys need to look pretty. Once breeding season arrives females are able to choose from a veritable buffet of males doing their sexy dance. When they find a male they like, they deposit their eggs and leave, never to be bothered by emotionally clingy males or obnoxious offspring again. The males are then left to do all the work of caring for and protecting the fertilized eggs and young Garibaldi fish.
Option #3 The Seahorse:
If you prefer a “slightly” more equitable treatment of the sexes when it comes to reproduction, you might like the seahorse. Male seahorses still have to do all the work involved in child rearing, so don’t worry, you can still “hit it and quit it”, but you can feel good about yourself knowing that the male seahorse got to choose YOU as the most attractive mate. The male seahorse carries the fertilized eggs in a breeding pouch on his belly, and as he has a valuable limited resource, gets to have some say on who gets to use his “breeding pouch”. When he decides he’s ready to mate, he advertises himself to the females in the area. The larger and more physically aggressive females will then display and fight amongst themselves to establish who is the biggest and badest winning the honor of getting to mate with the available male.
Option #4 the Convict Cichlid
For the romantically old-fashioned, perhaps you would like the reproductive strategy espoused by the Convict Cichlid. Male and female cichlids mate for life (one of the overwhelmingly FEW species that have been shown to be truly monogamous). Males and females share equally in the responsibilities for preparing and defending the nest as well as for caring for the eggs and young cichlids as they grow.
So ladies, place your votes. Option 1 through 4, each lady gets only 1 vote to be tallied whenever I feel like it. And sorry guys, but you don’t get a vote. Cause I’m a clownfish.
TL;DR Human behavior is more complex then alpha/beta dichotomies.
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Replies
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I'll go with 4. I'm romantic like that.
Also after the elephant nose fish, the sharks, and the rays (which weren't on the list) the cichlid was my favorite fish at the aquarium where I used to work.0 -
this is awesome.
if you weren't already on my friend's list i'd put you there.
tough decision between 2 and 3 for me..but since I'm a lover more than a fighter, i'm going with
20 -
Glad I'm not a fish. Alpha/Beta is a much more enjoyable philosophy
Is Phallacies like a phalic play on fallacy?...0 -
I prefer the undersized male bluegill. He has been known to dress in women's clothing and make other male fish waste their sperm on him, then he secretely gets the girl when the other guy's are in their recovery period...
Ok, that sounds bad, but I think it's pretty cool that these sneaky fish do that to ensure their genes are carried on.0 -
What happens in childcare to #3? Does the male have to take care of the kids too? I like this option, and my Seahorse would volunteer because he seems to think staying home involves TV and afternoon margaritas with other Seahorse dads.
Probably #4.0 -
I'll go with 4. I'm romantic like that.
Me too.
OP - you are awesome.0 -
What happens in childcare to #3? Does the male have to take care of the kids too? I like this option, and my Seahorse would volunteer because he seems to think staying home involves TV and afternoon margaritas with other Seahorse dads.
Probably #4.0 -
OP... this is cool as hell!
a few months ago I would have said #2, but I've recently turned into a sap so.... #4.0 -
I'll go with 4. I'm romantic like that.
Also after the elephant nose fish, the sharks, and the rays (which weren't on the list) the cichlid was my favorite fish at the aquarium where I used to work.
I'm going with #4 also for me because it's already worked out great.
Robert Sapolsky studied the social behavior of wild baboons and focused on the effects of stress. And he had some interesting results of alpha and beta males. When illness struck, it was the alpha males that all died out. And then he observed also how peaceful and less nasty the social environment was when it was a society of females and beta males.
I've only recently heard of people actually applying this to humans, from reading the mfp forums. So, if I gather this correctly. Alpha males are narcissistic and bad in bed because they are selfish lovers. Alpha males don't like beta males because beta males get all the ladies. Beta males are more intelligent and better lovers. The only people that think, care, or talk about this are men that consider themselves to be alpha males.
Here is a link: http://www.plosbiology.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pbio.00201060 -
This topic makes me want to go watch "'Revenge of the Nerds".0
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I'm going with #3 - hell yessss!
Although, if I were single, I'd probably chose #1.....:devil:0 -
OP, I don't know you, but I think I love you. This is brilliant.
And I'll go for 40 -
I pick 2 :drinker:0
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On my mean days...I'm likely to pick #1, but I'm much more drawn to #2 and #3.
I think I'll vote #3, since my own kids were relative angels today. Ask me on a day when they are evil little devil spawn and I'd choose #2.
P.S. I really do love my kids. Honest.0 -
Because I wanna play, and if I'm gonna be a fish...
(Op honestly, this is pretty genius. Well done!)0 -
Because I wanna play, and if I'm gonna be a fish...
(Op honestly, this is pretty genius. Well done!)
That's not a fish, silly.0 -
Jokingly I would pick 2, but really I'd pick 4.0
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1 or 4 but because I can only vote for one I will go with 1....I don't wanna be a deadbeat mom.0
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Because I wanna play, and if I'm gonna be a fish...
(Op honestly, this is pretty genius. Well done!)
That's not a fish, silly.
Yeahyeahyeah. I don't want to hear any guff about whales being mammals. They have fins, they live in the ocean so ipso fatso means they're a fish.0 -
This was awesome, OP. I'm picking 4.0
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Because I wanna play, and if I'm gonna be a fish...
(Op honestly, this is pretty genius. Well done!)
That's not a fish, silly.
Yeahyeahyeah. I don't want to hear any guff about whales being mammals. They have fins, they live in the ocean so ipso fatso means they're a fish.
We can just call you "Spermie" for short.
Edited for spelling...stupid words.0 -
I'm picking 40
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I'm between a 2 & 3, but since I usually go for the smaller size right now, I'm going to shove my butt into a 2.
Amber, you = genius.
PS:
A certain "nut" is still in the running for male MFP eye candy. I say NO!0 -
I'm just here because I was told I wasn't allowed in here.0
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Definitely 40
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I’ve decided that if BB.com brahs get to base their entire world view on a completely misunderstood and old fashioned model of reproductive skew in communally breeding societies, the lovely lifting ladies of MFP need to pick an arbitrary and oversimplified behavioral reproductive model to base our treatment of males upon. Now, since my field of research is mostly ichthyological in nature, my examples will be based on fish breeding behaviors, however, this is also appropriate as the majority of work in reproductive skew is done at the ichthyo/herpo level since anything beyond observational analysis becomes exponentially more problematic when working with avian and especially mammalian models. So here we go ladies, I submit for your approval, the following reproductive models:
Option #1 The Clownfish:
In the clownfish model, females get to keep a harem of males. Females generally remain close to the established nesting site and only venture far away when the nest is threatened by an invading clownfish harem or a possible predator. Subordinate males are kept in line through the aggressive and dominating behavior of the larger female. Males are responsible for providing for the nest, bringing food back for the host anemone and the female. Subordinate males who please the female will be allowed to fertilize the eggs. Subordinate males who fail to please the female will be killed. Good new for the guys though, if the female gets eaten by a predator and you are the most dominant male, you get to sex change and become the new female!
Option #2 The Garibaldi:
If keeping a harem of males seems like too much work for you, you may prefer the Garibaldi model. Among the Garibaldi, males select and defend a nesting site. Prior to the breeding season, Garibaldi males spend weeks primping and pruning their nest site to make it as attractive as possible to potential female suitors, and of course the Garibaldi males are bright orange and flashy as compared to the females, because after all, boys need to look pretty. Once breeding season arrives females are able to choose from a veritable buffet of males doing their sexy dance. When they find a male they like, they deposit their eggs and leave, never to be bothered by emotionally clingy males or obnoxious offspring again. The males are then left to do all the work of caring for and protecting the fertilized eggs and young Garibaldi fish.
Option #3 The Seahorse:
If you prefer a “slightly” more equitable treatment of the sexes when it comes to reproduction, you might like the seahorse. Male seahorses still have to do all the work involved in child rearing, so don’t worry, you can still “hit it and quit it”, but you can feel good about yourself knowing that the male seahorse got to choose YOU as the most attractive mate. The male seahorse carries the fertilized eggs in a breeding pouch on his belly, and as he has a valuable limited resource, gets to have some say on who gets to use his “breeding pouch”. When he decides he’s ready to mate, he advertises himself to the females in the area. The larger and more physically aggressive females will then display and fight amongst themselves to establish who is the biggest and badest winning the honor of getting to mate with the available male.
Option #4 the Convict Cichlid
For the romantically old-fashioned, perhaps you would like the reproductive strategy espoused by the Convict Cichlid. Male and female cichlids mate for life (one of the overwhelmingly FEW species that have been shown to be truly monogamous). Males and females share equally in the responsibilities for preparing and defending the nest as well as for caring for the eggs and young cichlids as they grow.
So ladies, place your votes. Option 1 through 4, each lady gets only 1 vote to be tallied whenever I feel like it. And sorry guys, but you don’t get a vote. Cause I’m a clownfish.
TL;DR Human behavior is more complex then alpha/beta dichotomies.
tl;dr
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Because I wanna play, and if I'm gonna be a fish...
(Op honestly, this is pretty genius. Well done!)
That's not a fish, silly.
Yeahyeahyeah. I don't want to hear any guff about whales being mammals. They have fins, they live in the ocean so ipso fatso means they're a fish.
. . . but only because it's a sperm whale so it seems appropriate to this discussion.0 -
Glad I'm not a fish. Alpha/Beta is a much more enjoyable philosophy
Is Phallacies like a phalic play on fallacy?...
Smart, pretty and orange shorts, you must be a Garibaldi!
Just keep in mind:
Alpha males - spend so much of their time defending territory and chest thumping, that they're constantly getting cuckolded by the beta males.
Beta males - Like to cross dress to sneak in to the nest in the hopes of a quickie with the females while the alpha is distracted.0 -
I prefer the undersized male bluegill. He has been known to dress in women's clothing and make other male fish waste their sperm on him, then he secretely gets the girl when the other guy's are in their recovery period...
Ok, that sounds bad, but I think it's pretty cool that these sneaky fish do that to ensure their genes are carried on.
This is why the whole alpha concept cracks me up! If anything, these guys should be aiming to be betas. Much less responsibility!0 -
Love this! Much better than the narrow-minded and oversimplified alpha/beta crap. I like 4.0
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