Morbidly obese... Do I need to eat more? LoL

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  • RhonndaJ
    RhonndaJ Posts: 1,615 Member
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    I wish people would stop perpetuating such nonsense.

    My sister was morbidly obese, had bariatric surgery, and is REQUIRED, by doctors, to eat well below her TDEE.

    She, like most patients in this predicament, lost just fine on a severely calorie restricted program.

    Doctors recommend these kinds of plans for obese patients all the time. When you're that size stripping away a ton of fat on a low calorie diet can be just fine for quite awhile.

    The key word in all this is 'doctors'.
  • shirleygirl910
    shirleygirl910 Posts: 503 Member
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    Everyone is different. What works for one may not work for another. I was 314 lbs. I know the feeling of failure and despiration that hits when you gain or don't lose what you think you should have. What I learned was, learn how to eat. As corny as they are the "Eat this not that" books are a good start. I eat things now I never thought I would. I exercise now like I never thought I would. My journey only started 3 years ago, and it hasn't been easy. I still have head hunger, but I'm still working on it. It's a learning process to find out how you need to eat or how your body works.

    One of my biggest motivators is CyberEd312. Check out his journey. http://www.gettingfit4life.com/
  • neanderthin
    neanderthin Posts: 9,969 Member
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    Personally, calculating more calories to be consumed just for the extra fat someone is carrying doesn't make sense, why would we need too.
  • Iwishyouwell
    Iwishyouwell Posts: 1,888 Member
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    Don't follow this advice please. The key words here are bariatric surgery. What this poster is not saying is that their sister will be on a lifetime cocktail of drugs to ensure she gets the nutrients that eating way under her daily TDEE inhibits.

    You know my sister personally? She's not on a "cocktail of drugs". But nice try.

    Doctors were subscribing low calorie diets to obese patients LONG before bariatric surgery.

    Nobody told this man to go on a 500 calorie diet. But if he can sustain just fine at around 1400-1500, and still get all his nutrients, he'll be fine. He has a TON of fat to lose, and a ton of fat to support his energy. What do you people think fat is there for? An extra squishy pillow?
  • parkscs
    parkscs Posts: 1,639 Member
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    Personally, calculating more calories to be consumed just for the extra fat someone is carrying doesn't make sense, why would we need too.

    There are a few reasons. For one, you burn more calories carrying around more weight each day. Take your average 150 pound woman who burns, let's say, 1600-1700 calories per day on average. Now give her a 100 pound sack to carry around on her shoulder all day long (let's assume she can lift it) - now how many calories do you think she's going to burn? Another reason is because most people who are carrying around a lot of weight are used to eating a lot of calories each day. If you suddenly tell them they need to restrict themselves to 1200 calories or less, you're likely to find at least some people that feel miserable making such a drastic change and aren't likely to stick with their diet for the long-term.

    But, do you NEED to follow a 10-20% caloric deficit when you're massively overweight? No, "need" is too strong of a word. Some people may find though that slow and steady weight loss is what is sustainable for them though, and that's ultimately what matters. Other people may find they can be satiated by fewer calories and are motivated by the more rapid weight loss. People just need to find a plan that works for them.
  • fatbitt
    fatbitt Posts: 24
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    I'm sure this is not going to go over well, but being someone who started very close to the OP size, I think that a high calorie restriction is what someone who has that much weight to lose needs.

    Here's where you're all going to disagree, in theory a person who weighs 200 lbs walks into MFP and says she wants to lose 2 pounds a week, we all agree that's healthy. Well, someone who weighs exponentially more than this person should by comparison ratio be able to lose a bit more than 2 pounds a week, say 4 lbs a week, and be equally as healthful in losing that weight.

    I am not advocating a VLCD, but a 1200 calorie nutrient filled filling diet to kick off someone who needs to lose quite a bit of weight is not unhealthy or crazy, at all.
  • Iwishyouwell
    Iwishyouwell Posts: 1,888 Member
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    I'm sure this is not going to go over well, but being someone who started very close to the OP size, I think that a high calorie restriction is what someone who has that much weight to lose needs.

    Here's where you're all going to disagree, in theory a person who weighs 200 lbs walks into MFP and says she wants to lose 2 pounds a week, we all agree that's healthy. Well, someone who weighs exponentially more than this person should by comparison ratio be able to lose a bit more than 2 pounds a week, say 4 lbs a week, and be equally as healthful in losing that weight.

    I am not advocating a VLCD, but a 1200 calorie nutrient filled filling diet to kick off someone who needs to lose quite a bit of weight is not unhealthy or crazy, at all.

    This, this, all of this.
  • parkscs
    parkscs Posts: 1,639 Member
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    I'm sure this is not going to go over well, but being someone who started very close to the OP size, I think that a high calorie restriction is what someone who has that much weight to lose needs.

    Here's where you're all going to disagree, in theory a person who weighs 200 lbs walks into MFP and says she wants to lose 2 pounds a week, we all agree that's healthy. Well, someone who weighs exponentially more than this person should by comparison ratio be able to lose a bit more than 2 pounds a week, say 4 lbs a week, and be equally as healthful in losing that weight.

    I am not advocating a VLCD, but a 1200 calorie nutrient filled filling diet to kick off someone who needs to lose quite a bit of weight is not unhealthy or crazy, at all.

    The only issue I'd take with your comments is that you're telling people what they "need" and that's too strong of a word. If someone goes from eating 4000 calories/day to 1200 calories per day, feels miserable and quits after 2 months, you've done them a disservice by telling them they "need" to lose weight that quickly. Can they safely lose weight this fast? In all likelihood, yes. Do they need to? No, they don't. If a less aggressive caloric deficit is sustainable for them, then a less aggressive caloric deficit is what they should follow.

    In short, the problem with your comments is that they ignore reality and that there's more to weight loss than what is a healthy amount of weight to lose. If putting someone on a pittance of calories per day makes them miserable and is too drastic of a change, you're just setting them up for failure in the short-term. Just because a diet is potentially "safe" to do doesn't mean you need to follow that diet.
  • Blue801
    Blue801 Posts: 442
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    unless I'm feeling deprived or tempted to binge there wasn't much reason to eat all those calories?

    Short answer seems to be "no", unless it will help me stick to the diet

    Thanks guys!

    And for the record... I am not, nor have I ever been (to my knowledge) a man.
    :noway:
  • Stripeness
    Stripeness Posts: 511 Member
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    OP, here are two articles relevant to your situation:

    1. Peer-reviewed medical journal. Gist - it may not make sense for you to rely on "feeling hungry."
    http://www.cell.com/trends/neurosciences//retrieve/pii/S0166223613000064?cc=y#MainText

    For some people, hunger is a very reliable signal. For others, not so much. HUGE YMMV, whether or not you have an eating disorder.

    2. Multi-part article written specifically for obese folks, with in-depth discussion of metabolism and references to multiple peer-reviewed studies.
    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/training-the-obese-beginner.html

    Our numbers won't be exactly the same, as I am working on rehabbing my metabolism (medically measured RMR = 1100). However, I've been inching my daily net calories steadily upward from 1200 towards the "Scooby-calculated" 1587. Not by forcing myself to eat when I *don't* want to, but by not waiting until I'm hungry. And btw, having your doc measure your RMR is a smart thing to do - simple & non-invasive. That way you know YOUR actual number, not some gadget or online calculator's guess.

    Me? I'm still morbidly obese, but getting less so: consistent 2.5 lbs/week, and ~17 lbs in 46 days. I think it's working just fine, and the best part: sustainably. My diary & blog are open, so you can see this isn't clean or extreme eating. It's an improvement over how I was eating, and it's *reasonable* amounts of exercise.

    You CAN be successful with a really restrictive approach, but I'd encourage a long-term (lifetime) view. Not even bariatric surgeons pretend that VLCD is the best thing for your metabolism. VLCD is a necessity due to restricted post-surgery stomach volume, and the assorted surgical procedures which do help some folks, are not trivial at all. Like back surgery - great stuff as a last resort.
  • Blue801
    Blue801 Posts: 442
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    There's a lot of VLCD referencing going on for a thread questioning a diet averaging over 1200 cal/day weekly. Are some folks thinking that because I'm so fat under 1500 counts as VLCD or something? Or are we just off on a "VLCD diets are evil" tangent?

    I do agree they are evil, simply because I can't fit my pot pies and cookies in properly with so few calories!
    :drinker:
  • parkscs
    parkscs Posts: 1,639 Member
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    There's a lot of VLCD referencing going on for a thread questioning a diet averaging over 1200 cal/day weekly. Are some folks thinking that because I'm so fat under 1500 counts as VLCD or something? Or are we just off on a "VLCD diets are evil" tangent?

    I do agree they are evil, simply because I can't fit my pot pies and cookies in properly with so few calories!
    :drinker:

    I think people are simply making the point that VLCDs (when properly administered) can be safe for people that are very overweight, and so 1200 or 1500 calories (around double the amount of calories consumed on a typical VLCD) should definitely be safe.
  • neanderthin
    neanderthin Posts: 9,969 Member
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    Personally, calculating more calories to be consumed just for the extra fat someone is carrying doesn't make sense, why would we need too.

    There are a few reasons. For one, you burn more calories carrying around more weight each day. Take your average 150 pound woman who burns, let's say, 1600-1700 calories per day on average. Now give her a 100 pound sack to carry around on her shoulder all day long (let's assume she can lift it) - now how many calories do you think she's going to burn? Another reason is because most people who are carrying around a lot of weight are used to eating a lot of calories each day. If you suddenly tell them they need to restrict themselves to 1200 calories or less, you're likely to find at least some people that feel miserable making such a drastic change and aren't likely to stick with their diet for the long-term.

    But, do you NEED to follow a 10-20% caloric deficit when you're massively overweight? No, "need" is too strong of a word. Some people may find though that slow and steady weight loss is what is sustainable for them though, and that's ultimately what matters. Other people may find they can be satiated by fewer calories and are motivated by the more rapid weight loss. People just need to find a plan that works for them.
    I'm really not referring to how much of a deficit is needed or what a sustainable deficit is, I'm referring to the difference in BMR and the suggest extra calories that the extra fat needs to support someones TDEE. Basically is around an extra 550 calories when you compare it to someone that's around 175 lbs and needs to lose weight to someone that's 300lbs. There's plenty of extra body fat to support 550 calories.......
  • Stripeness
    Stripeness Posts: 511 Member
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    There's a lot of VLCD referencing going on for a thread questioning a diet averaging over 1200 cal/day weekly. Are some folks thinking that because I'm so fat under 1500 counts as VLCD or something? Or are we just off on a "VLCD diets are evil" tangent?

    I do agree they are evil, simply because I can't fit my pot pies and cookies in properly with so few calories!
    :drinker:

    Nope - most of my reply was about anything BUT. Just mentioned VLCD @ end since it had been in thread. Not evil, just not (imo) the first thing to do.

    *raises spoon of Ben & Jerry's in salute*
  • brookielaw
    brookielaw Posts: 814 Member
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    Talk to your doctor. A bunch of strangers on the internet can't possibly have all of the relevant information that your medical professional does. Generally speaking we all have anecdata. I told my doctor about my efforts, showed her my mfp stats, settings, and recommendations and she gave me a bit of additional guidance. (Not much, unfortunately just a whole lot of "keep up what you're doing and come see me in 3 months" but I think it is important to not neglect the importance of medical guidance when undertaking major changes to your life and body).

    Just a thought.
  • Blue801
    Blue801 Posts: 442
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    There's a lot of VLCD referencing going on for a thread questioning a diet averaging over 1200 cal/day weekly. Are some folks thinking that because I'm so fat under 1500 counts as VLCD or something? Or are we just off on a "VLCD diets are evil" tangent?

    I do agree they are evil, simply because I can't fit my pot pies and cookies in properly with so few calories!
    :drinker:

    I think people are simply making the point that VLCDs (when properly administered) can be safe for people that are very overweight, and so 1200 or 1500 calories (around double the amount of calories consumed on a typical VLCD) should definitely be safe.

    Oh yes. I see now. Indeed. "Safe" but no fun at all. Got it!
    :bigsmile:
  • thesupremeforce
    thesupremeforce Posts: 1,207 Member
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    1200 is definitely low for someone that weighs 300. What does mfp suggest you eat daily?

    My mfp limit for a 2 lb weekly loss is 1620.

    This sounds completely reasonable to me.
  • devil_in_a_blue_dress
    devil_in_a_blue_dress Posts: 5,214 Member
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    First of all, I am just going to echo how important it is to be eating the *right* foods. I was EXACTLY where you are right now. As soon as I had made my mind up that I wasn't going to keep hurting myself and really watched what I was putting into my body, it started melting off. I've really noticed that when I have a week where I eat closer to my recommended caloric intake, it's a lot slower coming off. If I cut it back a bit, it makes a huge difference. That said, I can only suggest actually eating more. LOL By that I mean smaller portions and more often. And have a cut off time. I don't know how many people I've heard/read/seen saying that "it doesn't matter - your body isn't on a clock" and I wanna smack them. As much as possible, I make sure I'm eating dinner no later than 7 pm, and really try not to be snacking after 8. When I stick to it, I really see results. :)

    Well then I guess you will have to smack me, lol cause I personally took a snack to bed every night and lost a few pounds in the process, OP I am in the camp of meal frequency will have no bearing whatsoever on weight loss as long as you are eating in a calorie deficit and hitting your macro's. On the original question I do not agree with running a large deficit just because you are obese. Faster isn't always better, I was off the charts at 560 lbs. and never once did we sit my weight loss goals any faster then losing 1 to 2 lbs. a week... I lost the vast majority of my weight eating over 3000 calories a day so I read stuff like these severe low calorie diets and just shake my head, if you make this a lifestyle change and just commit to it then what difference does it make if it takes you a little longer to get to your goal.? Atleast by taking it slow and steady by the time you reach your goals you will have established a plan that is sustainable for the long term and there would be no reason to worry about any relaspes in my opinion...... Best of Luck to you..........

    If I were in your situation OP, this is the advice I would take.
  • Blue801
    Blue801 Posts: 442
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    Talk to your doctor. A bunch of strangers on the internet can't possibly have all of the relevant information that your medical professional does. Generally speaking we all have anecdata. I told my doctor about my efforts, showed her my mfp stats, settings, and recommendations and she gave me a bit of additional guidance. (Not much, unfortunately just a whole lot of "keep up what you're doing and come see me in 3 months" but I think it is important to not neglect the importance of medical guidance when undertaking major changes to your life and body).

    Just a thought.

    Yeah... My doctor told me to eat 500 calories a day to lose weight. I said "(:/!,$&?;;.??... Seriously? No."

    She was not pleased. Didn't send me a Christmas card this past year either.
    :sad:
  • titanium96
    titanium96 Posts: 153 Member
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    Eat less, exercise more! Don't get carried away with the science....everyone has a different opinion. Keep It Simple!

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