Squating lower with heavier weights

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  • Toomestwin
    Toomestwin Posts: 40
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    For me, squats are both the best and worst exercise you can do.

    Best because it works the quads, hams, glutes, back, abs, shoulders, traps and arms when performed correctly. Worst because it can screw up the quads, hams, glutes, back, abs, shoulders, traps and arms if done incorrectly.

    Barbell squats are the way to go. You can't follow proper form with the Smith machine, and if you're not careful, you can hurt yourself because you're forcing your body to follow the machine's path rather than the body's.

    When I perform a squat, I concentrate on pretending as if I'm going to sit down on a bench with the weight. When I almost reach that point, then I focus on pushing the weight up with my heels. There are a couple other things, such as holding in the abs, keeping my back straight, gripping the bar as if I was going to bend it around my neck (without putting pressure on my neck) and exploding the weight back up rather than trying to "force a burn" by going up slowly (and tearing up the back).

    I'm going to qualify this by also admitting that I have knee issues that comes from jumping out of airplanes in my younger years; so I'm very careful about how I perform squats. It's also why I read articles and pay more attention to them than what's posted on some website.

    Just sharing what works for me.

    Your mileage may vary.

    Good luck
  • Huffdogg
    Huffdogg Posts: 1,934 Member
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    Cylcists, sprinters and runners benefit more from just going to parallel or slightly above parallel. You could throw everyone who leads a more sedentary life into that category as well. Powerlifters are the ones who benefit the most from a full squat. And depending on your age and how much meniscus you have left in the knee - you may or may not want to be going to a full squat position in the first place.

    No one benefits from squatting above parallel except people who prefer to have their knees shredded.

    The cycling stroke ends just above parallel. Squatting to a very similar position is specific training for the pedal stroke and is well used by professional cyclists. One of the greatest coaches for Olympic sprinters in history advocated the 1/2 squats for all his sprinters and runners.

    Just saying - we don't all have the same needs (or knees) when it comes to the squat. I have no idea what the OP's needs are which is why I asked.

    I get that the cycling stroke mimics a half squat, but above-parallel squatting is what damages people's knees. The squat movement is dramatically different than the cycling movement, with joint loading that makes it potentially detrimental in partial ROM. I'd love to see something by this Olympic coach you are referring too.

    Charlie Francis - author of Speed Trap (where it is all explained), coach of some of the world's best sprinters. Unfortunately, some of them were in the era of PED's (Ben Johnson), but the entire body of his coaching career consistently produced some of the best running athletes in history.

    Cyclists do a lot of "jump squats" in the final power phase of weight training (using 45-60% of 1RM weight) which really requires a Smith machine to prevent injury. High and fast repetiions with lower weights that begin from the parallel position. Again - these are cycling specific squats and the leg position at the top of the stroke is parallel to slightly above parallel depending on the cyclists bike set up. The internet and books on cycling are filled with images and descriptions of not doing full squats. Sorry.

    thanks for the info!
  • vanguardfitness
    vanguardfitness Posts: 720 Member
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    You don't have to go 90 degrees or full squat.

    Do a half squat until you feel comfortable with the 'heavy' weight.

    You will get stronger and be more comfortable going down to a full squat.

    It will take time.

    There are so many variations of exercises and tempo squats you can do to improve upon this... but that's a whole other essay to write about.

    I don't really like this advice. I would prefer to have the person go for a full range for the heaviest weight they can do with good form (no rounding, no hyper extending, no hip cork-screwing from the bottom). If you can't go for full range of motion (barring no significant injury) then drop the weight.
  • JoRocka
    JoRocka Posts: 17,525 Member
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    You don't have to go 90 degrees or full squat.

    Do a half squat until you feel comfortable with the 'heavy' weight.

    You will get stronger and be more comfortable going down to a full squat.

    It will take time.

    There are so many variations of exercises and tempo squats you can do to improve upon this... but that's a whole other essay to write about.

    I don't really like this advice. I would prefer to have the person go for a full range for the heaviest weight they can do with good form (no rounding, no hyper extending, no hip cork-screwing from the bottom). If you can't go for full range of motion (barring no significant injury) then drop the weight.

    I've actually done partial squats loaded- on purpose... coming as down to whatever I was comfortable and then back up- I hate doing it- and I don't recommend it to ANYONE. But it has been helpful to me to do it purely for the mental block aspect.

    But again- I would never recommend it and never for full sets- mostly for one or two sets- single reps each. When I've done it I've gone as far as comfortable- re-racked. Break. Again- little lower. Re-Rack- break. all the way down to just below/at the official parallel line.

    I get stuck in the hole- so my goal was to try to do a NOT ATG squat and figure out what that meant for me.

    but it's not fun. it sucks.
  • Will_Thrust_For_Candy
    Will_Thrust_For_Candy Posts: 6,109 Member
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    Check out this article....it's easily one of the best I have read (no surprise given that it was written by Dave Tate) regarding squats. I have since started using a low box to train squats and it really does make a big difference. If you do have a fear of failing, this method will for sure help you get over it plus it's great for form.

    http://articles.elitefts.com/training-articles/sports-training/dave-tates-free-squat-manual/


    In addition, you don't have to ATG in your squat in order for it to be effective. I also wouldn't recommend the half squat as someone else did, but going to parallel or even just above is perfectly fine.
  • Krustpie
    Krustpie Posts: 25
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    Really good article, thank you Vegus Baby. So last night I took it right back to basics and worked with just a bar with no added weights and worked on making sure I had the right depth of squat, repeating the move and feeling that little movement that you get when you know the squat is right. Tonight I have lined up my spotter and will go for the heavier weights.
    Thank you again for your comments.
  • Krustpie
    Krustpie Posts: 25
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    Again thank you all for your comments. I spent an hour last night with one of my instructors, breaking my technique down to see where I was failing/faultering, captured the movement on record and again worked until I kept getting it right. So I now have a plan and homework.
  • SezxyStef
    SezxyStef Posts: 15,268 Member
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    Oh Crumbs what have I started? I know I have to squat lower & with form. Unloading and moving up slower sounds like great advice and failing on purpose also might stop my block on increasing the load. Thank you all for your comments and I will see how I get on this week.

    I've just gone through this myself...and realized that I wasn't going low enough so I deloaded and went atg and yup I would have failed at the higher weights...I don't like failing either...

    Oh another thing I did was watched the so you think you can squat and so you think you can deadlift series on youtube....

    all I can say is WOW I wish he was my trainer....
  • Krustpie
    Krustpie Posts: 25
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    The Dave Tate article that Vegasbaby posted was really interesting so I will definatly take a look at the youtubes, thank you.
  • stanluoser
    stanluoser Posts: 82
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    Fall back on your hamstrings and do not let your knees go past your toes. Come up with your heels. I usually prefer *kitten* to grass deep squats but thats just me. Some just go 90 degrees.
  • VBnotbitter
    VBnotbitter Posts: 820 Member
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    Thank you I also found lots of useful tips, and its given me the confidence to deloaded and work on getting lower
  • Huffdogg
    Huffdogg Posts: 1,934 Member
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    do not let your knees go past your toes.

    This has actually been disproven quite a few times. While you certainly want to make sure to recruit your hips, trying to keep your knees from tracking forward doesn't really work for everyone. Whether or not they go forward of your toes is dictated more by anatomy than anything else.
  • TomfromNY
    TomfromNY Posts: 100 Member
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    do not let your knees go past your toes.

    This has actually been disproven quite a few times. While you certainly want to make sure to recruit your hips, trying to keep your knees from tracking forward doesn't really work for everyone. Whether or not they go forward of your toes is dictated more by anatomy than anything else.

    yes, the knees/toe thing is bogus. Think of two different people who have the same height, length of shin, thigh, torso, etc... Except one person has a size 13 foot and the other has a size 7 foot. Obviously, their knees will be in a different position relative to their toes.

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