Concealed Handgun permit holders......
pawnstarNate
Posts: 1,728 Member
in Chit-Chat
Locally over the weekend and man walked into Walmart and opened fire on a woman in the checkout line. Shooting her 4 times. She just got upgraded from critical to stable condition I believe so, it looks like she may pull out of it. My question is this though. If you are a person with a concealed handgun permit and lets say you were in the next checkout line. Would you be justified in shooting the shooter? I called a friend of mine who is the county sheriff here and his exact words were "I believe so but, that would be a question for the prosecutor so don't take that to the bank"
I realize there would be a lot to consider in that split second. People running around screaming and possibly getting in the line of fire. As a concealed permit holder myself. I don't think I would hesitate to pull my pistol out and shoot this person because in that moment, you don't know if it's just an isolated incident on that particular victim or if the shooter is randomly shooting people. Thus, you are protecting your own life.
I realize there would be a lot to consider in that split second. People running around screaming and possibly getting in the line of fire. As a concealed permit holder myself. I don't think I would hesitate to pull my pistol out and shoot this person because in that moment, you don't know if it's just an isolated incident on that particular victim or if the shooter is randomly shooting people. Thus, you are protecting your own life.
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Replies
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I'm all for protecting yourself! I know in Massachusetts homeowners have shot people breaking into their homes and have even found guilty for injuring or killing the person breaking in! A lot would probably depend on where you live!0
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It is VERY difficult and we've had long, long discussions about your right to shoot in a situation that does not involve you and your life being threatened. IF you were near the direct line of fire then you are certainly in your right to return fire. If you were an observer to the side then it could be questionable that you shoot.
The hardest part of the situation is, you don't know anything more than it is a person shooting a person. For instance, what if a guy came into a store and started shooting at another guy, and you decide to shoot the shooter. Later you find out the shooter was the father of an 8 year old that this other person molested. Far fetched? Maybe. But it is a consideration.
When getting the CWP the idea is to keep it concealed until there is clear and present danger. Then, shot to kill.
My .020 -
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When someone broke into my neighbor's house, the police officer told me that I can't shoot anyone outside, but if they step over the threshold, then blow their a** away. She also told me that I didn't hear that from her if anyone asks. But if I saw someone shooting up people in public, then yeah, I would definitely do it.0
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I'm Canadian and I just don't understand....0
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I'm all for protecting yourself! I know in Massachusetts homeowners have shot people breaking into their homes and have even found guilty for injuring or killing the person breaking in! A lot would probably depend on where you live!
It depends on the state. GA would be a good kill, CA you are going to jail.
I'm all for self defense, but the first technique in self defense is running away or desculate. In the rare case that you can't, you may have to use your firearm to protect yourself. If you do, you have to be aware of the situation and surroundings. Is their a McDonalds right behind the shooter with a family of 6 trying to order happy meals? Is he shooting then running? is he alone?
You have to make a lot of decisions in a split second, better make it right.0 -
nm...I'm vacating this one...0
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I'm all for protecting yourself! I know in Massachusetts homeowners have shot people breaking into their homes and have even found guilty for injuring or killing the person breaking in! A lot would probably depend on where you live!
It depends on the state. GA would be a good kill, CA you are going to jail.
I'm all for self defense, but the first technique in self defense is running away or desculate. In the rare case that you can't, you may have to use your firearm to protect yourself. If you do, you have to be aware of the situation and surroundings. Is their a McDonalds right behind the shooter with a family of 6 trying to order happy meals? Is he shooting then running? is he alone?
You have to make a lot of decisions in a split second, better make it right.
I'm in California and DH has a CCW. My understanding is that, if you feel your life is in danger, you have the right to shoot. If someone is shooting another person remotely in my vicinity, I would feel that my life is in danger, and I wouldn't hesitate.0 -
As long as you had a clear shot and weren't endangering other lives, I think this would fall under Defense of a Third Party/Defense of Others and justified as reasonable force. Of course the details would rely on State law and you'd probably need a good lawyer and some evidence/witness testimony to be released on those terms if charged.0
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In before the feces storm.
I think shooting a man which just shot a third party is justified reasonable force, a better question would be what you should be charged with if you accidentally wound or kill a bystander instead of the shooter...0 -
I'm all for protecting yourself! I know in Massachusetts homeowners have shot people breaking into their homes and have even found guilty for injuring or killing the person breaking in! A lot would probably depend on where you live!
It depends on the state. GA would be a good kill, CA you are going to jail.
I'm all for self defense, but the first technique in self defense is running away or desculate. In the rare case that you can't, you may have to use your firearm to protect yourself. If you do, you have to be aware of the situation and surroundings. Is their a McDonalds right behind the shooter with a family of 6 trying to order happy meals? Is he shooting then running? is he alone?
You have to make a lot of decisions in a split second, better make it right.
I'm in California and DH has a CCW. My understanding is that, if you feel your life is in danger, you have the right to shoot. If someone is shooting another person remotely in my vicinity, I would feel that my life is in danger, and I wouldn't hesitate.
Ok, Jail is overstating, however, the police would take your gun, and you are open to a civil suit, if the legal suit is not persued. My point should have been, GA, life goes on the same, CA, your life will never be the same.0 -
my understanding (which could very well be wrong) is, if you fire on someone to stop them from killing you or someone else, then it's a good shoot (depending on what state too i believe).
that said, as a carrier, i would take each situation as it comes.
if i can save a life without putting mine in imminent danger, then great...but i have a wife and kid who count on me to be there, so if helping the other party is going to get me killed then i'll be over here, hiding under the clearance rack.
ETA: im not a hero. i carry to protect me and mine, not the world.0 -
Yes, just make sure you have a conceal and carry permit and a registered gun.. you didn't know he wasn't going to open fire, just make sure you don't hit anybody besides the guy with the gun.. oh and obviously you don't leave the scene... now if you shoot 2 or 3 people in the process, well you could face charges then.0
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Here in Texas, you can shoot to defend yourself, or the life of someone else, It gets really hazy when someone else's property is concerned (see Joe Horn case)
So yes, in Texas it would be a good shoot if you iced the guy who shot the woman. However, you are still responsible for your bullets. If you shoot the guy three times, and one of the bullets passes through the guy and wounds someone behind him; that's on you.0 -
I'm Canadian and I just don't understand....
amen! One of the reasons im glad im canadian.0 -
my understanding (which could very well be wrong) is, if you fire on someone to stop them from killing you or someone else, then it's a good shoot (depending on what state too i believe).
that said, as a carrier, i would take each situation as it comes.
if i can save a life without putting mine in imminent danger, then great...but i have a wife and kid who count on me to be there, so if helping the other party is going to get me killed then i'll be over here, hiding under the clearance rack.
ETA: im not a hero. i carry to protect me and mine, not the world.
Both my husband and I have CHL's (and are both prior military), but I'm with this poster. If however, the shooter turns on other shoppers and starts shooting everything and everyone in site, from my protected position, I will take him out.0 -
Yes, it would be a very delicate situation and one that would require matrix like examination of the room and reaction.....but, in reality. Nobody really knows what they will do until they are in that situation. I hope I never have to kill another person but, if I am protecting myself or my family I will pull the trigger and will hope all those times at the shooting range shooting at a paper target pays off.
Like my grandmother always told me....Gun control is using both hands.0 -
As I understand it, in the US, you have the right to use lethal force to protect yourself or others from death, grievious bodily harm or imminent grievious bodily harm.my understanding (which could very well be wrong) is, if you fire on someone to stop them from killing you or someone else, then it's a good shoot (depending on what state too i believe).
In other words, you wouldn't be justified in shooting a pickpocket but you would be justified in shooting a mugger who has threatened to use force (even if he hasn't actually done so).
ETA : There's also the Castle doctrine which allows you to shoot any tresspasser on private property.0 -
Locally over the weekend and man walked into Walmart and opened fire on a woman in the checkout line. Shooting her 4 times. She just got upgraded from critical to stable condition I believe so, it looks like she may pull out of it. My question is this though. If you are a person with a concealed handgun permit and lets say you were in the next checkout line. Would you be justified in shooting the shooter? I called a friend of mine who is the county sheriff here and his exact words were "I believe so but, that would be a question for the prosecutor so don't take that to the bank"
I realize there would be a lot to consider in that split second. People running around screaming and possibly getting in the line of fire. As a concealed permit holder myself. I don't think I would hesitate to pull my pistol out and shoot this person because in that moment, you don't know if it's just an isolated incident on that particular victim or if the shooter is randomly shooting people. Thus, you are protecting your own life.
What do the laws of your state say?ETA : There's also the Castle doctrine which allows you to shoot any tresspasser on private property.
In certain states there are, some states do not recognize that.0 -
You hear two gunshots in the store. You turn the corner and hear a third shot as you see a man (A) who has just fired his gun and another man (B) slumped to the floor bleeding. You pull out your gun and shoot the man (A) who just shot the other man. You take another step you see yet another person (C) dead on the floor. Then you realize that the person you just killed (A) was another concealed carry holder and the person he killed (B) was the original shooter. Before you have a chance to fully realize what happened, you look up and see another CC holder pulling out his gun and firing at you...0
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Still waiting for my application to be approved. As far as the situation at Wally world, I don't think it would be justified in my state to pull my gun unless I felt my life is in danger.0
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You hear two gunshots in the store. You turn the corner and hear a third shot as you see a man (A) who has just fired his gun and another man (B) slumped to the floor bleeding. You pull out your gun and shoot the man (A) who just shot the other man. You take another step you see yet another person (C) dead on the floor. Then you realize that the person you just killed (A) was another concealed carry holder and the person he killed (B) was the original shooter. Before you have a chance to fully realize what happened, you look up and see another CC holder pulling out his gun and firing at you...
point taken. you must carefully examine the situation, action, and outcome in 1.4 seconds.0 -
just wanted to add that i live in NH, so i can basically shoot the cable guy if he doesnt show up at the scheduled time.
i kid.
but we do have castle doctrine.0 -
You mean to tell me that the "No Firearms" sign that is posted outside of every Wal-mart did nothing to stop someone hell-bent on shooting another person?
I am shocked! Shocked i tell you.
I'm all for concealed carry. I support the second amendment. I hunt. But i'm no hero. Unless i saw someone pointing a gun at me or spaying gunfire randomly, i don't think i could pull a weapon on someone. Hopefully i never find out for sure.0 -
It is very dependent upon the state and the angle of prosecution. In that situation it could get sticky. In PA , when you shoot someone outside of your home in self defense you must be in a situation where retreat is unachievable...which is a very subjective matter.0
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I live in Alaska, very loose gun laws (do not need a consealed)
I think you would be justified because the person would be an active shooter and you do not know if the person i targeting someone for going to shoot up the place.
A response to the shooter getting shot and then another consealed shooting the other shooter. If you are a consealed and do not see a situation happen and then randomly come around a corner firing, you should not have a consealed. If you did not see what happened and are making assumptions then you should not fire your gun because your life is not threatened because you were not there.0 -
You must live out in the sticks, because from my research, it's impossible to get a concealed carry permit in CA unless you live in a very rural area. CA does have a castle doctrine though, which surprised me.I'm all for protecting yourself! I know in Massachusetts homeowners have shot people breaking into their homes and have even found guilty for injuring or killing the person breaking in! A lot would probably depend on where you live!
It depends on the state. GA would be a good kill, CA you are going to jail.
I'm all for self defense, but the first technique in self defense is running away or desculate. In the rare case that you can't, you may have to use your firearm to protect yourself. If you do, you have to be aware of the situation and surroundings. Is their a McDonalds right behind the shooter with a family of 6 trying to order happy meals? Is he shooting then running? is he alone?
You have to make a lot of decisions in a split second, better make it right.
I'm in California and DH has a CCW. My understanding is that, if you feel your life is in danger, you have the right to shoot. If someone is shooting another person remotely in my vicinity, I would feel that my life is in danger, and I wouldn't hesitate.0 -
my understanding (which could very well be wrong) is, if you fire on someone to stop them from killing you or someone else, then it's a good shoot (depending on what state too i believe).
that said, as a carrier, i would take each situation as it comes.
if i can save a life without putting mine in imminent danger, then great...but i have a wife and kid who count on me to be there, so if helping the other party is going to get me killed then i'll be over here, hiding under the clearance rack.
ETA: im not a hero. i carry to protect me and mine, not the world.
Both my husband and I have CHL's (and are both prior military), but I'm with this poster. If however, the shooter turns on other shoppers and starts shooting everything and everyone in site, from my protected position, I will take him out.
^^^THIS!^^^0 -
You must live out in the sticks, because from my research, it's impossible to get a concealed carry permit in CA unless you live in a very rural area. CA does have a castle doctrine though, which surprised me.I'm all for protecting yourself! I know in Massachusetts homeowners have shot people breaking into their homes and have even found guilty for injuring or killing the person breaking in! A lot would probably depend on where you live!
It depends on the state. GA would be a good kill, CA you are going to jail.
I'm all for self defense, but the first technique in self defense is running away or desculate. In the rare case that you can't, you may have to use your firearm to protect yourself. If you do, you have to be aware of the situation and surroundings. Is their a McDonalds right behind the shooter with a family of 6 trying to order happy meals? Is he shooting then running? is he alone?
You have to make a lot of decisions in a split second, better make it right.
I'm in California and DH has a CCW. My understanding is that, if you feel your life is in danger, you have the right to shoot. If someone is shooting another person remotely in my vicinity, I would feel that my life is in danger, and I wouldn't hesitate.
I'm in a city of roughly 500,000. Not super urban, but far from rural.0 -
I have been debating getting a CC permit, but for right now, I'm gonna wait until my youngest two are old enough to stop snooping in everything. If I were in that situation, I honestly can't say what I would do. However, if I was the one getting shot, I'd certainly appreciate someone taking out the shooter.0
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