The Full-Fat Paradox: Whole Milk May Keep Us Lean
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MissyMissy18
Posts: 315 Member
Ran into this article today and thought I'd share! I've switched to all full fat dairy recently, and at the very least everything tastes 1000% more delicious and satisfying.
Mmm. Butter.
http://goo.gl/jw4nhR
Disclaimer: probably still not a great idea for people with high cholesterol, as the article mentions.
Mmm. Butter.
http://goo.gl/jw4nhR
Disclaimer: probably still not a great idea for people with high cholesterol, as the article mentions.
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Replies
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It keeps you lean by slowly killing you, everyone knows dairy is only for baby mammals0
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Interesting. So I read the article you indicated. I'm just wondering - who is most likely to select low-fat dairy products? WOuldn't that be people who are worried about their weight? I think there may be a cause, but the cause is reversed.
It's not that low-fat dairy makes us fatter. It's that fatter people select low-fat dairy! QED.0 -
Ooh! You're probably right. I mean, you have crazy abs so you probably know everything. Weird though that my doctor never mentioned anything about how I'm totally dying from the half and half I put in my coffee. Especially considering that everyone knows! Eh, oh well, I'm dying slowly anyway from being human, so I'll take my chances.
Thanks for the advice though!0 -
Interesting. So I read the article you indicated. I'm just wondering - who is most likely to select low-fat dairy products? WOuldn't that be people who are worried about their weight? I think there may be a cause, but the cause is reversed.
It's not that low-fat dairy makes us fatter. It's that fatter people select low-fat dairy! QED.
Good point!0 -
While that may be true, low fat or fat free dairy is what's been chosen by the masses since 1980 based on the new guidlines to reduce fat intake and especially saturated fat. so not surprising that that has happened, whether that has influenced CVD and obesity is suspect.Interesting. So I read the article you indicated. I'm just wondering - who is most likely to select low-fat dairy products? WOuldn't that be people who are worried about their weight? I think there may be a cause, but the cause is reversed.
It's not that low-fat dairy makes us fatter. It's that fatter people select low-fat dairy! QED.0 -
It keeps you lean by slowly killing you, everyone knows dairy is only for baby mammals
Regardless of whether such an idea about dairy is true, it applies to all naturally fatty foods, really.
The "full-fat paradox" is only a paradox when looked at through the fat-phobic lens brought on by Ancel Keyes' Seven Countries Study (which was the driving force behind the whole low-fat thing). In reality, fat (from naturally fatty foods) is satiating and necessary for nutrient absorption. When you can properly absorb the nutrients you need, you get more out of your food and reduce nutrient-based cravings. When you eat filling foods, you're less likely to overeat.
The cholesterol thing is a crock, too, and probably added to articles like that due to pressure from organizations like the AHA or fear of retaliation without some kind of disclaimer (I found an article one time extolling the virtues of coconut oil that had a similar disclaimer tacked onto the end of it, too).
Butter (particularly from grass fed cows) has actually been shown to raise HDL and lower LDL, for example, and is rich in the universally-considered-good monounsaturated fats (about 1/3 of its fat is MUFA), has an ideal balance of Omega-3 and Omega-6, contains Conjugated Linoleic Acid (which has been shown to improve cardiovascular health and help with weight loss), and is packed with vitamins (enough Vitamin A to rival or even surpass that of carrots). Coconut oil has similar effects, and has even been shown to be superior to soybean oil in not only helping with weight loss, but also in improving lipid levels (but because it's saturated fat, the aforementioned article felt the need to tack on the AHA disclaimer).
http://jn.nutrition.org/content/130/12/2943.full
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20463040
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1253300/?page=1
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/194370580 -
It keeps you lean by slowly killing you, everyone knows dairy is only for baby mammals
Regardless of whether such an idea about dairy is true, it applies to all naturally fatty foods, really.
The "full-fat paradox" is only a paradox when looked at through the fat-phobic lens brought on by Ancel Keyes' Seven Countries Study (which was the driving force behind the whole low-fat thing). In reality, fat (from naturally fatty foods) is satiating and necessary for nutrient absorption. When you can properly absorb the nutrients you need, you get more out of your food and reduce nutrient-based cravings. When you eat filling foods, you're less likely to overeat.
The cholesterol thing is a crock, too, and probably added to articles like that due to pressure from organizations like the AHA or fear of retaliation without some kind of disclaimer (I found an article one time extolling the virtues of coconut oil that had a similar disclaimer tacked onto the end of it, too).
Butter (particularly from grass fed cows) has actually been shown to raise HDL and lower LDL, for example, and is rich in the universally-considered-good monounsaturated fats (about 1/3 of its fat is MUFA), has an ideal balance of Omega-3 and Omega-6, contains Conjugated Linoleic Acid (which has been shown to improve cardiovascular health and help with weight loss), and is packed with vitamins (enough Vitamin A to rival or even surpass that of carrots). Coconut oil has similar effects, and has even been shown to be superior to soybean oil in not only helping with weight loss, but also in improving lipid levels (but because it's saturated fat, the aforementioned article felt the need to tack on the AHA disclaimer).
http://jn.nutrition.org/content/130/12/2943.full
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20463040
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1253300/?page=1
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19437058
And studies showing little to no effect for CLA supplementation
Beuker F, Haak H, Schwietz H. , editors. CLA and body styling. Symposium: Vitamine und Zusatzstoffe; Jena (Thhr.) 1999
Kreider RB, Ferreira MP, Greenwood M, Wilson M, Almada AL. Effects of conjugated linoleic acid supplementation during resistance training on body composition, bone density, strength, and selected hematological markers. J Strength Cond Res. 2002;16(3):325–34
Malpuech-Brugere C, Verboeket-van de Venne WP, Mensink RP, Arnal MA, Morio B, Brandolini M, Saebo A, Lassel TS, Chardigny JM, Sebedio JL, Beaufrere B. Effects of two conjugated linoleic Acid isomers on body fat mass in overweight humans. Obes Res. 2004;12(4):591–8
Medina EA, Horn WF, Keim NL, Havel PJ, Benito P, Kelley DS, Nelson GJ, Erickson KL. Conjugated linoleic acid supplementation in humans: effects on circulating leptin concentrations and appetite. Lipids. 2000;35(7):783–8.
Salas-Salvado J, Marquez-Sandoval F, Bullo M. Conjugated linoleic acid intake in humans: a systematic review focusing on its effect on body composition, glucose, and lipid metabolism. Crit Rev Food Sci Nutr. 2006;46(6):479–88.
Von Loeffelholz C. Influence of conjugated linoleic acid (CLA) supplementation on body composition and strength in bodybuilders. Jena (Thnr) 1999
Wang YW, Jones PJ. Conjugated linoleic acid and obesity control: efficacy and mechanisms. Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord. 2004;28(8):941–55
Zambell KL, Keim NL, Van Loan MD, Gale B, Benito P, Kelley DS, Nelson GJ. Conjugated linoleic acid supplementation in humans: effects on body composition and energy expenditure. Lipids. 2000;35(7):777–820 -
The "full-fat paradox" is only a paradox when looked at through the fat-phobic lens brought on by Ancel Keyes' Seven Countries Study (which was the driving force behind the whole low-fat thing). In reality, fat (from naturally fatty foods) is satiating and necessary for nutrient absorption. When you can properly absorb the nutrients you need, you get more out of your food and reduce nutrient-based cravings. When you eat filling foods, you're less likely to overeat.
The cholesterol thing is a crock, too, and probably added to articles like that due to pressure from organizations like the AHA or fear of retaliation without some kind of disclaimer (I found an article one time extolling the virtues of coconut oil that had a similar disclaimer tacked onto the end of it, too).
Butter (particularly from grass fed cows) has actually been shown to raise HDL and lower LDL, for example, and is rich in the universally-considered-good monounsaturated fats (about 1/3 of its fat is MUFA), has an ideal balance of Omega-3 and Omega-6, contains Conjugated Linoleic Acid (which has been shown to improve cardiovascular health and help with weight loss), and is packed with vitamins (enough Vitamin A to rival or even surpass that of carrots). Coconut oil has similar effects, and has even been shown to be superior to soybean oil in not only helping with weight loss, but also in improving lipid levels (but because it's saturated fat, the aforementioned article felt the need to tack on the AHA disclaimer).
Awesome info, thanks! I have read much of the same information (most recently in a Gary Taubes book) which originally spurred my decision to embrace the delicious, fatty side of life. I always, always hesitate to share stuff like this without the added disclaimer though because I'm not an expert.. even if it's something I've read about and agree with. Also I'm trying to avoid getting yelled at by MFPers who disagree. But I got yelled at anyway so hey!0 -
The "full-fat paradox" is only a paradox when looked at through the fat-phobic lens brought on by Ancel Keyes' Seven Countries Study (which was the driving force behind the whole low-fat thing). In reality, fat (from naturally fatty foods) is satiating and necessary for nutrient absorption. When you can properly absorb the nutrients you need, you get more out of your food and reduce nutrient-based cravings. When you eat filling foods, you're less likely to overeat.
The cholesterol thing is a crock, too, and probably added to articles like that due to pressure from organizations like the AHA or fear of retaliation without some kind of disclaimer (I found an article one time extolling the virtues of coconut oil that had a similar disclaimer tacked onto the end of it, too).
Butter (particularly from grass fed cows) has actually been shown to raise HDL and lower LDL, for example, and is rich in the universally-considered-good monounsaturated fats (about 1/3 of its fat is MUFA), has an ideal balance of Omega-3 and Omega-6, contains Conjugated Linoleic Acid (which has been shown to improve cardiovascular health and help with weight loss), and is packed with vitamins (enough Vitamin A to rival or even surpass that of carrots). Coconut oil has similar effects, and has even been shown to be superior to soybean oil in not only helping with weight loss, but also in improving lipid levels (but because it's saturated fat, the aforementioned article felt the need to tack on the AHA disclaimer).
Awesome info, thanks! I have read much of the same information (most recently in a Gary Taubes book) which originally spurred my decision to embrace the delicious, fatty side of life. I always, always hesitate to share stuff like this without the added disclaimer though because I'm not an expert.. even if it's something I've read about and agree with. Also I'm trying to avoid getting yelled at by MFPers who disagree. But I got yelled at anyway so hey!
You do know Taubes blatantly makes things up, right?0 -
And studies showing little to no effect for CLA supplementation
Beuker F, Haak H, Schwietz H. , editors. CLA and body styling. Symposium: Vitamine und Zusatzstoffe; Jena (Thhr.) 1999
Kreider RB, Ferreira MP, Greenwood M, Wilson M, Almada AL. Effects of conjugated linoleic acid supplementation during resistance training on body composition, bone density, strength, and selected hematological markers. J Strength Cond Res. 2002;16(3):325–34
Malpuech-Brugere C, Verboeket-van de Venne WP, Mensink RP, Arnal MA, Morio B, Brandolini M, Saebo A, Lassel TS, Chardigny JM, Sebedio JL, Beaufrere B. Effects of two conjugated linoleic Acid isomers on body fat mass in overweight humans. Obes Res. 2004;12(4):591–8
Medina EA, Horn WF, Keim NL, Havel PJ, Benito P, Kelley DS, Nelson GJ, Erickson KL. Conjugated linoleic acid supplementation in humans: effects on circulating leptin concentrations and appetite. Lipids. 2000;35(7):783–8.
Salas-Salvado J, Marquez-Sandoval F, Bullo M. Conjugated linoleic acid intake in humans: a systematic review focusing on its effect on body composition, glucose, and lipid metabolism. Crit Rev Food Sci Nutr. 2006;46(6):479–88.
Von Loeffelholz C. Influence of conjugated linoleic acid (CLA) supplementation on body composition and strength in bodybuilders. Jena (Thnr) 1999
Wang YW, Jones PJ. Conjugated linoleic acid and obesity control: efficacy and mechanisms. Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord. 2004;28(8):941–55
Zambell KL, Keim NL, Van Loan MD, Gale B, Benito P, Kelley DS, Nelson GJ. Conjugated linoleic acid supplementation in humans: effects on body composition and energy expenditure. Lipids. 2000;35(7):777–82
I'd prefer to avoid an argument, especially over one aspect of one example that I mentioned (particularly considering that the CLA content of butter is only about 5% of the fatty acids in it, so even if you don't consume it for its CLA, it still has numerous other benefits). However, I did want to point out a couple of things with regard to the studies you posted:
1. The studies you've presented don't really say that CLA doesn't help with weight loss, just that it doesn't result in what could basically be described as "spontaneous weight loss," either through such mechanisms as increased energy expenditure (your last reference), or through decreased appetite.
2. The studies you linked used "healthy" adults and experienced weight lifters, both of which I would assume would also be at a weight that's considered healthy, and therefore not attempting to lose weight (and probably not have a heck of a lot of fat to lose). From the looks of the results of the studies we both have found, this seems to be a pretty significant difference, and as such, we're likely comparing apples to oranges here.
Now, I don't think CLA is some magic bullet that will make someone lose weight, but it seems evident to me that it does aid those who have excess weight lose more fat than muscle, but the mechanism by which it operates is as yet unknown. As I mentioned before, the CLA content of butter is only one of many health benefits that have been reported, and given that only a small amount of butter is made of CLA, I don't think it should be the sole (or even deciding) reason to consume it, nor should it be treated as some magic bullet.0 -
Ooh! You're probably right. I mean, you have crazy abs so you probably know everything. Weird though that my doctor never mentioned anything about how I'm totally dying from the half and half I put in my coffee. Especially considering that everyone knows! Eh, oh well, I'm dying slowly anyway from being human, so I'll take my chances.
Thanks for the advice though!
Ha! Perfect response. :happy:0 -
My eating plan(keto) encourages full fat EVERYTHING!0
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This!It keeps you lean by slowly killing you, everyone knows dairy is only for baby mammals0 -
The short and medium-chain fatty acids released are absorbed across the gut and travel through the portal vein to the liver, where they are rapidly oxidized which is unique among fatty acids. Milk have quite a bit of these shorter chain fatty acids. Basically these are used for immediate energy much like a carbohydrate is, so most of the studies about milk and waistline and weight, generally point to this as the mechanism, small as it is, it still has an effect. CLA supplementation is not the same and doesn't seem to offer the same benefit. Counting on this as a primary reason why whole milk is better is probably wishful thinking........I would think that whole milk drinkers are different than the low fat demographic, but I'm not sure.And studies showing little to no effect for CLA supplementation
Beuker F, Haak H, Schwietz H. , editors. CLA and body styling. Symposium: Vitamine und Zusatzstoffe; Jena (Thhr.) 1999
Kreider RB, Ferreira MP, Greenwood M, Wilson M, Almada AL. Effects of conjugated linoleic acid supplementation during resistance training on body composition, bone density, strength, and selected hematological markers. J Strength Cond Res. 2002;16(3):325–34
Malpuech-Brugere C, Verboeket-van de Venne WP, Mensink RP, Arnal MA, Morio B, Brandolini M, Saebo A, Lassel TS, Chardigny JM, Sebedio JL, Beaufrere B. Effects of two conjugated linoleic Acid isomers on body fat mass in overweight humans. Obes Res. 2004;12(4):591–8
Medina EA, Horn WF, Keim NL, Havel PJ, Benito P, Kelley DS, Nelson GJ, Erickson KL. Conjugated linoleic acid supplementation in humans: effects on circulating leptin concentrations and appetite. Lipids. 2000;35(7):783–8.
Salas-Salvado J, Marquez-Sandoval F, Bullo M. Conjugated linoleic acid intake in humans: a systematic review focusing on its effect on body composition, glucose, and lipid metabolism. Crit Rev Food Sci Nutr. 2006;46(6):479–88.
Von Loeffelholz C. Influence of conjugated linoleic acid (CLA) supplementation on body composition and strength in bodybuilders. Jena (Thnr) 1999
Wang YW, Jones PJ. Conjugated linoleic acid and obesity control: efficacy and mechanisms. Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord. 2004;28(8):941–55
Zambell KL, Keim NL, Van Loan MD, Gale B, Benito P, Kelley DS, Nelson GJ. Conjugated linoleic acid supplementation in humans: effects on body composition and energy expenditure. Lipids. 2000;35(7):777–82
I'd prefer to avoid an argument, especially over one aspect of one example that I mentioned (particularly considering that the CLA content of butter is only about 5% of the fatty acids in it, so even if you don't consume it for its CLA, it still has numerous other benefits). However, I did want to point out a couple of things with regard to the studies you posted:
1. The studies you've presented don't really say that CLA doesn't help with weight loss, just that it doesn't result in what could basically be described as "spontaneous weight loss," either through such mechanisms as increased energy expenditure (your last reference), or through decreased appetite.
2. The studies you linked used "healthy" adults and experienced weight lifters, both of which I would assume would also be at a weight that's considered healthy, and therefore not attempting to lose weight (and probably not have a heck of a lot of fat to lose). From the looks of the results of the studies we both have found, this seems to be a pretty significant difference, and as such, we're likely comparing apples to oranges here.
Now, I don't think CLA is some magic bullet that will make someone lose weight, but it seems evident to me that it does aid those who have excess weight lose more fat than muscle, but the mechanism by which it operates is as yet unknown. As I mentioned before, the CLA content of butter is only one of many health benefits that have been reported, and given that only a small amount of butter is made of CLA, I don't think it should be the sole (or even deciding) reason to consume it, nor should it be treated as some magic bullet.0 -
It keeps you lean by slowly killing you, everyone knows dairy is only for baby mammals
Except that over the last 10,000 years, some populations of the primate species Homo sapiens, have evolved the ability to digest lactose beyond childhood. Because natural selection and adaptation.
Evolution didn't stop when we evolved vertical foreheads and pointy chins.0 -
I believe that was sarcasm.It keeps you lean by slowly killing you, everyone knows dairy is only for baby mammals
Except that over the last 10,000 years, some populations of the primate species Homo sapiens, have evolved the ability to digest lactose beyond childhood. Because natural selection and adaptation.
Evolution didn't stop when we evolved vertical foreheads and pointy chins.0 -
I believe that was sarcasm.It keeps you lean by slowly killing you, everyone knows dairy is only for baby mammals
Except that over the last 10,000 years, some populations of the primate species Homo sapiens, have evolved the ability to digest lactose beyond childhood. Because natural selection and adaptation.
Evolution didn't stop when we evolved vertical foreheads and pointy chins.
it's impossible to tell on this forum sometimes....0 -
Whole fat, non-fat, whatever you eat, what keeps you lean is not consuming too many calories.0
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Whole fat, non-fat, whatever you eat, what keeps you lean is not consuming too many calories.
Pretty much.
I don't care how much fat things have... what I care about is the number of calories. So often I'll go for low fat, just because it has less calories. I'm horrible at following my hunger signs anyway, and would rather have my calories in a lot of different things than a few higher calories things, so low fat makes more sense to me anyway.0 -
Whole fat, non-fat, whatever you eat, what keeps you lean is not consuming too many calories.
Pretty much.
I don't care how much fat things have... what I care about is the number of calories. So often I'll go for low fat, just because it has less calories. I'm horrible at following my hunger signs anyway, and would rather have my calories in a lot of different things than a few higher calories things, so low fat makes more sense to me anyway.
I used to be, too, until I increased my fat intake. I ended up able to control my hunger better with more fats in my diet than without, even at the same (or even lower, because I'm not always so ravenous) calorie level.
So, while it is about consuming too many calories, eating more fat can actually help consume fewer calories.0
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