Ketosis This is my best way of describing it

Bumping for curiosity..sorry for the topic derail.

So I have a question for the ketosis folks since I have ya here. Yeah, I am lazy but there is so much craze around it that it is hard to find the answer to simple questions sometimes without a whole lot of funk and fluff.

So from what I understand, in order to get into ketosis don't you have to strict low to no carb/high fat and protein diet? If so, doesn't this wreck havoc on your insulin levels? Doesn't that severely retard muscle development? The reason I am asking is I usually see crossfit people toting the ketosis diet and I can see how it would be beneficial for fat loss but confused as I believe low insulin levels really have an impact on muscle growth which is what crossfitters are really aiming to do.

Anyone care to explain what I am missing.
(and no, I am not being rude or judgmental, I am honestly curious on what I am missing)

Low insulin levels = low energy status = inhibition of protein building signalling molecules.

However, insulin isnt the only thing that affects muscle building - load itself stimulates protein synthesis.

So in summary, its a pro/con balance. Typical approach of cycling bulking with lots of energy gaining fat and muscle then cutting loosing fat and muscle OR consistent smaller gains in muscle with minimal gains in fat.

Choice is yours I guess

There's also the fact that protein and ketones (at a certain level) also trigger an insulin response in the body, so ketosis does not mean no insulin (in fact, if it weren't for insulin, ketosis would be dangerous). Whether they promote muscle growth as much as the insulin response from carbs, I don't personally know. It seems to me that it produces enough to still allow for muscle growth, though it may be slower than on a bulk/cut cycle type of routine (like michael said, though, it's slower gain without much fat gain).

Awesome awesome awesome food for thought happening in here. Thank you all.

So I have a question for the ketosis folks since I have ya here. Yeah, I am lazy but there is so much craze around it that it is hard to find the answer to simple questions sometimes without a whole lot of funk and fluff.

So from what I understand, in order to get into ketosis don't you have to strict low to no carb/high fat and protein diet? If so, doesn't this wreck havoc on your insulin levels? Doesn't that severely retard muscle development? The reason I am asking is I usually see crossfit people toting the ketosis diet and I can see how it would be beneficial for fat loss but confused as I believe low insulin levels really have an impact on muscle growth which is what crossfitters are really aiming to do.

Anyone care to explain what I am missing.

(and no, I am not being rude or judgmental, I am honestly curious on what I am missing)

When you don't eat carbs, your body still makes it from the fat you have. One of the mechanisms is called beta oxidation. Fatty acids are made of long carbon chains, the same carbon in carbohydrates, and these carbon molecules are extracted from the fatty acids and placed into your muscles for energy. This occurs in everyone but just happens a lot more in people eating low amounts of carbs because it forces your body to pull more fat from the fat cells. However this process is so efficient that it is not possible to provide optimal levels of energy for a workout. It's only good enough for basic energy level needs like walking, light jogging, light weights, and basically just not enough to go full blast during a workout. You still need to eat the right amount of carbs in order to fuel good workouts. You can still be in ketosis while eating low carbs, and the paleo diet does recommend eating carbs, so it is not strictly a ZERO carb diet.

So I have a question for the ketosis folks since I have ya here. Yeah, I am lazy but there is so much craze around it that it is hard to find the answer to simple questions sometimes without a whole lot of funk and fluff.

So from what I understand, in order to get into ketosis don't you have to strict low to no carb/high fat and protein diet? If so, doesn't this wreck havoc on your insulin levels? Doesn't that severely retard muscle development? The reason I am asking is I usually see crossfit people toting the ketosis diet and I can see how it would be beneficial for fat loss but confused as I believe low insulin levels really have an impact on muscle growth which is what crossfitters are really aiming to do.

Anyone care to explain what I am missing.

(and no, I am not being rude or judgmental, I am honestly curious on what I am missing)

When you don't eat carbs, your body still makes it from the fat you have. One of the mechanisms is called beta oxidation. Fatty acids are made of long carbon chains, the same carbon in carbohydrates, and these carbon molecules are extracted from the fatty acids and placed into your muscles for energy. This occurs in everyone but just happens a lot more in people eating low amounts of carbs because it forces your body to pull more fat from the fat cells. However this process is so efficient that it is not possible to provide optimal levels of energy for a workout. It's only good enough for basic energy level needs like walking, light jogging, light weights, and basically just not enough to go full blast during a workout. You still need to eat the right amount of carbs in order to fuel good workouts. You can still be in ketosis while eating low carbs, and the paleo diet does recommend eating carbs, so it is not strictly a ZERO carb diet.

So just for fun let me see if I can get this right:

Paleo != Keto in that paleo is a bit more forgiving on carbs

BUT

Paleo can equal ketosis which is really the goal of keto

This is interesting to me because I am a veterinarian and if I see an animal in ketosis, they are critically ill although the ketosis I am referring to is secondary to uncontrolled diabetes. They are animals that have burned a significant amount fat for fuel since they have not been able to appropriately utilize the food they eat. 90% of the time I can diagnose them by smelling their breath.

So I have a question for the ketosis folks since I have ya here. Yeah, I am lazy but there is so much craze around it that it is hard to find the answer to simple questions sometimes without a whole lot of funk and fluff.

So from what I understand, in order to get into ketosis don't you have to strict low to no carb/high fat and protein diet? If so, doesn't this wreck havoc on your insulin levels? Doesn't that severely retard muscle development? The reason I am asking is I usually see crossfit people toting the ketosis diet and I can see how it would be beneficial for fat loss but confused as I believe low insulin levels really have an impact on muscle growth which is what crossfitters are really aiming to do.

Anyone care to explain what I am missing.

(and no, I am not being rude or judgmental, I am honestly curious on what I am missing)

When you don't eat carbs, your body still makes it from the fat you have. One of the mechanisms is called beta oxidation. Fatty acids are made of long carbon chains, the same carbon in carbohydrates, and these carbon molecules are extracted from the fatty acids and placed into your muscles for energy. This occurs in everyone but just happens a lot more in people eating low amounts of carbs because it forces your body to pull more fat from the fat cells. However this process is so efficient that it is not possible to provide optimal levels of energy for a workout. It's only good enough for basic energy level needs like walking, light jogging, light weights, and basically just not enough to go full blast during a workout. You still need to eat the right amount of carbs in order to fuel good workouts. You can still be in ketosis while eating low carbs, and the paleo diet does recommend eating carbs, so it is not strictly a ZERO carb diet.

Your points are sort of right but the substrate metabolism mechanisms are incorrect.

1. Beta oxidation is oxidative phosphorylation of fatty acids into components for the electron transport chain to produce energy.

2. "Carbon molecules" are not extracted into muscle for energy? The energy comes from electrons being passed down the down the electron transport chain producing a proton (Hydrogen) gradient.

3. Its nothing to do with efficiency of "pulling fat" from cells. Oxidising fat requires oxygen. Metabolising carbohydrate can be done with or without oxygen (With = Glycolysis and pyruvate through ETC, Without = Glycolysis to Lactate). To achieve high intensity exercise (sprints etc) you utilise carbohydrate because this can be metabolised anaerobically (without oxygen) resulting in lactate (which contributes to the agony sensation you get with a sprint

4. Fat oxidation is maximal at low-moderate intensity such as light walking etc due to the evolutionary drive to preserve carbohydrate stores - (you wouldnt want to rely on CHO as it is a finite resource whereas fat can be utilised for days/weeks/months/years etc).

No worries, yes practically what you were saying is perfect Sorry i'm a massive metabolism geek haha