Proper use of supplements?

JessieNeutronGirlGenius
JessieNeutronGirlGenius Posts: 268
in Food and Nutrition
I've been really looking into how many female bodybuilders who are in their cutting phase use supplements while staying within their calories? Do these women even count calories or just eat clean? I mean, I know a lot of them count macros but I'm in my cutting phase too, so how do they take all of these supplements while staying in their calorie/macro limit?

I have Whey and Casein, I tried to make Casein pudding the other day and that was a fail, does anyone know a recipe!?

Also,

Do you take your supplements with water or almond/soy/skim milk?

Replies

  • HappyStack
    HappyStack Posts: 802 Member
    If you're not counting calories when cutting you're doing it wrong. AFAIK they taper everything, including calories, closer to competition date. Chances are, if you're struggling, your intake was already too low to taper... open diary would help.
  • JessieNeutronGirlGenius
    JessieNeutronGirlGenius Posts: 268
    I do count calories, and my diary is public!
  • HappyStack
    HappyStack Posts: 802 Member
    You'll need to be much more close to your goal protein, for a start. Carbs are personal preference, some women do better cutting them right down... others prefer to keep them... others cycle carbs. It would also depend on your workout routine and how much cardio you're planning on doing (if any).
    The whole eating "clean" thing plays into using supplements. Whey goes into anything, at the end of the day, and depending on your brand only contributes 100 or so calories for ~30g protein. They're not necessary, though.

    Are you attempting to compete?
  • JessieNeutronGirlGenius
    JessieNeutronGirlGenius Posts: 268
    I need to lose a lot more fat before I could even consider competing but I think that at some point that would be really awesome! I have no one to really guide/coach me since I'm a college student with limited money, so I have been researching as much as I can. I try to get my protein in and I have started lifting 4-5 times a week with 15min of HIIT on the treadmill. I usually am at the gym anywhere from 45-60min, I feel that I should probably be spending more time If I want to see results.
  • tegalicious
    tegalicious Posts: 629
    Female bodybuilders have high lean body mass and because of their high lean body mass and intense lifting schedules can eat a lot of calories. Much more than a typical female doing a cut to lose general weight. Having a lot of calories to play with makes it easier to include lots of high calorie protein drinks and well they have high protein requirements as well so it is a win/win for them. Since you are just at the beginnings of weightloss and aren't any where near bodybuilder status, yet :), it is going to be harder for you to fit in high calorie supplements because you just don't have the calories for it. You could probably fit a scoop of protein powder blended in some unsweetened almond milk and maybe some berries or Greek yogurt for breakfast. But the protein powders aren't necessary for you at this stage in your game.
  • HappyStack
    HappyStack Posts: 802 Member
    How tall are you, what do you weigh, do you know your body fat percentage?

    There are vast differences between bodybuilding, physique, fitness, etc. competitions (vast differences, see here - http://www.burnthefatinnercircle.com/members/physique-contest-divisions.cfm)... training and diet is slightly different for each goal figure.

    But the first thing would be to address your low protein intake, and quite possibly your fairly low NET calories.
  • JessieNeutronGirlGenius
    JessieNeutronGirlGenius Posts: 268
    That makes a lot of sense! I am lifting about 5-6 times a week but I really want to up my lifting and really spark the fat loss you know? I'd say my calories and macros are pretty accurate it is just the exercises I want to make sure I am doing enough and not just being a slacker lol!
  • JessieNeutronGirlGenius
    JessieNeutronGirlGenius Posts: 268
    I am 5ft and 150lbs the last time I got my fat percentage I was at about 26%

    Low NET cals? Is that bad or good that they are low? Shouldn't I not be eating over my calories or eating back my exercise calories so I can lose weight and keep my muscle mass while I'm lifting so I can sculpt my body?
  • cpusmc
    cpusmc Posts: 122
    Your diary seems to say a couple of things, a. your seldom hit your calorie number, b. you almost never hit your protein number and are typically way under; c. the bulk of your calories are carbs.

    I cant tell what your goal is nor do I get a good feel for what "lose a lot more fat" really means, 5lbs - 100lbs??? So to give you any decent advice is difficult. From your workouts it appears you are lifting quite a bit, which is good, are you lifting heavy? On your diet, try swapping some carb calories for protein calories, getting 1 gram/lb bodyweight is not a bad thing to shoot for. There is a chance you could see some fat loss results from making this change alone. If you are not lifting heavy, I would start as building muscle will help tone as you start to peel away the fat on top of the muscles. Happy to help if any of this makes sense or sounds somewhat intelligent. LOL. Good luck and just stay with it, consistency month after month, year after year will get you where you want to be...
  • tegalicious
    tegalicious Posts: 629
    I haven't had a proper look through your diary but I do know that yesterday the breakfast sandwich was only the calories. So the macros are off for yesterday because the protein from the bagel and egg wasn't logged.
  • tegalicious
    tegalicious Posts: 629
    I am 5ft and 150lbs the last time I got my fat percentage I was at about 26%

    Low NET cals? Is that bad or good that they are low? Shouldn't I not be eating over my calories or eating back my exercise calories so I can lose weight and keep my muscle mass while I'm lifting so I can sculpt my body?

    Are you doing TDEE or myfitnesspal?

    If myfitnesspal, then the activity level you chose based on your job and the weekly weight loss amount you chose will determine how high of a calorie deficit myfitnesspal will give you to lose weight WITHOUT exercise. So you could eat the myfitnesspal determined calories and lose weight without exercising. But if you exercise, you need to eat back at least some of those calories so you haven't created a dangerously low calorie deficit for yourself. Typically you want to make sure your NET calorie amount is at LEAST 1200.

    If TDEE, then I would have to take a look through your stats and see if you set it up right and you would not be recording exercise into myfitnesspal because it would already be included in your calorie amount for the day.
  • HappyStack
    HappyStack Posts: 802 Member
    Low NET cals? Is that bad or good that they are low? Shouldn't I not be eating over my calories or eating back my exercise calories so I can lose weight and keep my muscle mass while I'm lifting so I can sculpt my body?

    If you're 5ft, your goal calorie intake might actually be fine for your level of activity (NET cals = total cals - exercise cals). You're fairly close to that most days.
    Most people actually calculate their TDEE, subtract about 10-20% of those calories, and don't add any exercise calories to their diary because that can tend to muddy the water when it comes to goals.

    When you're in a calorie deficit it's inevitable you'll lose some lean mass. To preserve as much of it as possible you need about 0.8g-1g of protein per lb of body mass, and to have a decent lifting routine. Carbs and fats can make up the rest of your calorie allowance (either as an incidental intake along with your protein - like parmesan breaded chicken - or separate - like plain grilled chicken salad with extra-virgin olive oil in a dressing).

    Your BF %-age isn't terribly high (I was thinking you meant 30+%). You'd be considered an "overfat beginner" (don't worry, me too hehe) and your focus could be more on fat-loss than mass-gaining at present... so maintaining a constant deficit, following the exercise programs you're on now.

    Or you could focus on trying to recomp, which gives a lot of visible results as a rank beginner but ultimately takes longer, where I'd recommend cycling calories (around maintenance on lifting days, slight deficit on off days) and following a mass-gaining lifting program to maximise your "newbie gains".

    There are also a lot of other ways to accomplish the same goal, but I've tried to keep it brief... sorry if it's still a bit of info overload.
  • JessieNeutronGirlGenius
    JessieNeutronGirlGenius Posts: 268
    Your diary seems to say a couple of things, a. your seldom hit your calorie number, b. you almost never hit your protein number and are typically way under; c. the bulk of your calories are carbs.

    I cant tell what your goal is nor do I get a good feel for what "lose a lot more fat" really means, 5lbs - 100lbs??? So to give you any decent advice is difficult. From your workouts it appears you are lifting quite a bit, which is good, are you lifting heavy? On your diet, try swapping some carb calories for protein calories, getting 1 gram/lb bodyweight is not a bad thing to shoot for. There is a chance you could see some fat loss results from making this change alone. If you are not lifting heavy, I would start as building muscle will help tone as you start to peel away the fat on top of the muscles. Happy to help if any of this makes sense or sounds somewhat intelligent. LOL. Good luck and just stay with it, consistency month after month, year after year will get you where you want to be...

    This is very good advice and I appreciate it thank you! I do try to lift heavy I mean, I don't use "Barbie" weights, I lift what is heavy for me because I'm not extremely strong. My goal is to lose weight probably like 20-30lbs but I want to lift heavy too!
  • JessieNeutronGirlGenius
    JessieNeutronGirlGenius Posts: 268
    I am 5ft and 150lbs the last time I got my fat percentage I was at about 26%

    Low NET cals? Is that bad or good that they are low? Shouldn't I not be eating over my calories or eating back my exercise calories so I can lose weight and keep my muscle mass while I'm lifting so I can sculpt my body?

    Are you doing TDEE or myfitnesspal?

    If myfitnesspal, then the activity level you chose based on your job and the weekly weight loss amount you chose will determine how high of a calorie deficit myfitnesspal will give you to lose weight WITHOUT exercise. So you could eat the myfitnesspal determined calories and lose weight without exercising. But if you exercise, you need to eat back at least some of those calories so you haven't created a dangerously low calorie deficit for yourself. Typically you want to make sure your NET calorie amount is at LEAST 1200.

    If TDEE, then I would have to take a look through your stats and see if you set it up right and you would not be recording exercise into myfitnesspal because it would already be included in your calorie amount for the day.

    I got my stats through iifym, I only add my exercise so I can log it, I don't eat back those calories!
  • JessieNeutronGirlGenius
    JessieNeutronGirlGenius Posts: 268
    Low NET cals? Is that bad or good that they are low? Shouldn't I not be eating over my calories or eating back my exercise calories so I can lose weight and keep my muscle mass while I'm lifting so I can sculpt my body?

    If you're 5ft, your goal calorie intake might actually be fine for your level of activity (NET cals = total cals - exercise cals). You're fairly close to that most days.
    Most people actually calculate their TDEE, subtract about 10-20% of those calories, and don't add any exercise calories to their diary because that can tend to muddy the water when it comes to goals.

    When you're in a calorie deficit it's inevitable you'll lose some lean mass. To preserve as much of it as possible you need about 0.8g-1g of protein per lb of body mass, and to have a decent lifting routine. Carbs and fats can make up the rest of your calorie allowance (either as an incidental intake along with your protein - like parmesan breaded chicken - or separate - like plain grilled chicken salad with extra-virgin olive oil in a dressing).

    Your BF %-age isn't terribly high (I was thinking you meant 30+%). You'd be considered an "overfat beginner" (don't worry, me too hehe) and your focus could be more on fat-loss than mass-gaining at present... so maintaining a constant deficit, following the exercise programs you're on now.

    Or you could focus on trying to recomp, which gives a lot of visible results as a rank beginner but ultimately takes longer, where I'd recommend cycling calories (around maintenance on lifting days, slight deficit on off days) and following a mass-gaining lifting program to maximise your "newbie gains".

    There are also a lot of other ways to accomplish the same goal, but I've tried to keep it brief... sorry if it's still a bit of info overload.

    I guess I don't really understand the carb cycling, I've read books on it and seems like it's a good idea...but I feel like I wouldn't be able to do that AND count macros. I am allowing myself a reefed day I think, so I can have one cheat meal but even that I am unsure of.
  • HappyStack
    HappyStack Posts: 802 Member
    You don't need to carb cycle at this point. People do it close to comp date because carbs = water retention and increased muscle glycogen. It's not for weight loss, it's for appearance mostly. Even if you cycled carbs now, it's going to be an artificial weight loss. There's no benefit to carb cycling for fat loss over an overall calorie deficit.

    Refeeds/cheats aren't really necessary if you're following IIFYM [if it fits your macros] style dieting (and there's no reason not to). Figure out your calories and macros, then eat whatever foods you want that fit into that. Don't get too stuck into the minutiae of cutting just yet.
  • cpusmc
    cpusmc Posts: 122
    Your diary seems to say a couple of things, a. your seldom hit your calorie number, b. you almost never hit your protein number and are typically way under; c. the bulk of your calories are carbs.

    I cant tell what your goal is nor do I get a good feel for what "lose a lot more fat" really means, 5lbs - 100lbs??? So to give you any decent advice is difficult. From your workouts it appears you are lifting quite a bit, which is good, are you lifting heavy? On your diet, try swapping some carb calories for protein calories, getting 1 gram/lb bodyweight is not a bad thing to shoot for. There is a chance you could see some fat loss results from making this change alone. If you are not lifting heavy, I would start as building muscle will help tone as you start to peel away the fat on top of the muscles. Happy to help if any of this makes sense or sounds somewhat intelligent. LOL. Good luck and just stay with it, consistency month after month, year after year will get you where you want to be...

    This is very good advice and I appreciate it thank you! I do try to lift heavy I mean, I don't use "Barbie" weights, I lift what is heavy for me because I'm not extremely strong. My goal is to lose weight probably like 20-30lbs but I want to lift heavy too!

    Ok, heres my 2 cents. Heavy for you is fine, thats how its supposed to be. Increase weight as the present weight get easier i.e. you get more reps. Dont sweat carb loading you can do that when you decide to enter a contest. You need to nail your diet as that is 90% of the work. This may take tweaking and modifying to find exactly what works for you.

    Put yourself in a calorie deficit 10% to start, have a cheat day on diet as otherwise the body will adjust and your weight loss will plateau. Modify your calories till you are getting 1-2lbs a week in weight loss. Dont stress on the numbers, slow and steady will be a healthier lifestyle. On your workout, you might try a 4 days split, upper on 2 days, lower on 2 days with a cardio/core day in the middle and a light cardio day on Sat. with a rest day on Sunday. You must stay with it, it may be 90 days or so of consistent diet/exercise before you start to see significant changes but they will come.

    Agree with the other posts, no reason to discuss cutting until you have a good foundation and want to go the the next level.

    Protein supps are good to help hit your protein count and for feeding the muscles immediately after a weight session. Also good at night before bed as your body repairs the muscle while you sleep so having a protein source before bed helps the body to have available amino acids to work with. If you have other questions feel free to holler... I hope this makes some sense...
  • OverDoIt
    OverDoIt Posts: 332 Member
    You are talking about a few different animals here. I will shed some light on a couple of things for you. Here is the truth. Female, and male bodybuilding, physique, fitness, and bikini competitors have some secrets that you may be unaware of. #1 The picture you see is the when they are the most unhealthy all year. Having very low bodty fat, completely dehydrated, spray tanned and oiled up is all smoke and mirrors. Does it look good ? You bet it does but it is a farse, only to win competition. #2 Many of the supplements sponsored athletes claim to take are lies. They are paid to endorse a product and represent the company. #3 The cutting phase in untested shows is typically riddled with drugs, such as stimulants, diuretics, and cutting agents. #4 Even natural athletes at tested shows have to go to extreme dehydration, carb depletion, and overall misery. The other factor is diet fish, fish and more fish and egg whites and chicken and that is about it for the winners. Protein shakes before a show is usually a very big no no as it may cause bloating. The "anabolic window" is also a farse, Mark Lobliner the owner of MTS Nutrition has a video on You Tube explaining this. It does not matter when you get your protein as long as you get it. Catabolism post workout is a ploy to sell more powders. Intra workout aminos will aid in recovery, but they are also not very crucial just gravy for those who need very high calorie diets. I will point this out to you, prisoners in the corrections system have no access to supplements or nutritious food for that matter and they are able to achieve some very impressive physiques. I hope this helps. You can sprint and win a short race, or pace yourself and win the marathon of life.

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