39 Male, No idea how to bulk up or the Diet rules

ianpagehall · February 2014

Hi All

I think this is one of a very limited number or posts I have made.. I m asking this or these questions as I basically have no idea and I have read so much I am now confused.. Its the start of Feb so I need some direction and help.

Me I am 6'4 18 Stone 13 lb, 120kg, and nothing about me has ever been small, i.e. I have a big frame but I am both fat and weak. I had a huge bike accident leaving me with 2 exploded scapula / shoulder blades and broken arms etc.. 4 years ago, I have 99% movement so not limited at all.

I have no shoulders at all, my arms are pathetic looking.., maybe not weak I am not sure.... I can do maybe 2 press ups I cannot do dips at all.

I joined a gym early jan, I changed my diet, Tofu, Soya, Wholewheat pasta, Vegetables and a evening standard meal chicken steak blah blah.. I am yet to actually put all this in my food diary properly, I forget and am really hungry....

I have gained about 5lb... maybe a little more, I am hitting cardio stuff hardish for me,

My life goal, is less fat more defined larger simple really. I historically had a habit of starving myself to lose weight.. and I have no intention of doing that again.

My Average food per day is
Morning Yogurt, Banana, mid morning Banana + Tomatoes, Lunch, Whole Wheat Pasta, Afternoon Banana + Tomatoes, Evening Chicken meal, boiled potatoes, pasta spinach brocolli... thats the planed I can wake up during the night and eat cereal and have a few pints of milk... (Soya or full fat) If kids are home we also end up with crisps and chocolate but generally not.

Average Gym Session (daily)
Bike 30 Mins, 13 Mets??
Rowing 500m 1:40 rowing as fast as I can without being sick
Crunch Machine 82kg 86kg 91kg x 6 (3 Sets weight increasing)
Lateral Raise 36 36 41 x 6
Leg Extension 79 86 93 x 6
Leg Press 100 107 113 x 6
Shoulder Press 18 23 27 x 6
Calf Raise 134 140 143 x 6
Chest Press 37 39 45 x 6
Seated Dip 50 59 64 x 6
Machine Curl 41 45 50 x 6
Machine Fly 41 45 50 x 6
Tricep Extension 54 59 64 x 6
I do a last set to failure but never include the weight or reps but always less than 6

So am I eating OK? should I be trying 6 eats a day or is it too early in the gym lifestyle to be trying this, is my gym ok...

Why am I getting fatter? or am I just talking too soon and need to chill and let me body get going? am I tooo old?

Any advice on what I am doing or doing wrong will be great.. or maybe what I can eat during the day or at night? I have read too much and want to now what real people do..

Do protein shakes work, should I be using these, they helped me feel better

after the gym but I am really not sure.

Lost help

Huffdogg · February 2014

You listed nothing about what your actual intake goals are in numbers.
6 meals a day is totally unnecessary.
You're doing nothing but isolation machine type exercises. Look into lifting compound barbell lifts with a program like Starting Strength that features progressive overload (weight increasing as you become stronger).
Looks like you're not getting anywhere near enough protein.

3laine75 · February 2014

Protein shakes are fine if you need them to hit your macros, do you?

If you're a bit of a yo- yo dieter, you need to get out of the 'diet' mindset - don't deprive yourself of stuff you enjoy - just fit it into your day.

I'd second leaving the machines behind and hitting the squat rack (but I'm not an expert)

Maybe cut the cardio back a bit and if you haven't already, customise your macros - 15% protein is not enough if you're doing strength training.

Good luck with it

bluetuesday5 · February 2014

Your weights routine looks pretty poor, Starting Strength is a good recommendation or Stronglifts. I'd eat around maintenance for now, then when you stop progressing you'll have to choose to either lose some fat or eat a bit more and get stronger. Don't worry about meals per day, just aim for the right amount of calories and sufficient protein.

Also let me get this right? You do those weights every day? You need rest days to recover, this is when you build muscle and get stronger.

alecno · February 2014

In my opinion, you would benefit more (and see the results more) if you spent the next several months casually trying to shed pounds first with like a net 1600-1800 calories/day after some regular cardio, then hit the weights hard.

3laine75 · February 2014

In my opinion, you would benefit more (and see the results more) if you spent the next several months trying to shed pounds first, then hit the weights hard.

Fail

timbrom · February 2014

Your diet looks pretty low in protein. If eating six meals a day works for you then there's no problem there, but there won't be a problem eating less often either. Number of meals per day is completely a personal preference thing. Try making sure you are getting a good dose of protein every time you eat, you should probably be shooting for 200-250g of protein a day if you are looking to gain muscle. You may also need to cut back on carbs a bit, it's difficult not seeing exact numbers in your diary but it looks like you are probably eating too many carbs. One easy way for you to drop the carbs is to replace some or all of the bananas with a different fruit, (not that there's anything wrong with bananas, but they are a higher-carb fruit).

But really, the biggest thing is to start tracking, that would make making recommendations a lot easier.

And I agree, your gym routine is awful. Too much of the wrong stuff too often for a beginner. Buy Starting Strength, or at least go to stronglifts.com and check out that program.

alecno · February 2014

@3laine75. Not sure what you mean. Way to offer no explanation. But I'm sure you are a strength machine, being a 38 y/o female.

However I am a 22 y/o male who used to be fat and weak, and I am working hard to change that. Smaller + Muscular > Fat + Muscular. The muscle will hide under layers. If you want to see a casual arm bulge all the time and look strong, you need to shed some exterior fat too.

3laine75 · February 2014

@3laine75. Not sure what you mean. Way to offer no explanation. But I'm sure you are a strength machine, being a 38 y/o female.

However I am a 22 y/o male who used to be fat and weak, and I am working hard to change that. Smaller + Muscular > Fat + Muscular. The muscle will hide under layers. If you want to see a casual arm bulge all the time and look strong, you need to shed some exterior fat too.

Sorry @alecno that was a bit harsh. As you are 22 you are lucky that you probably haven't lost weight, gained it, lost it etc.

I'm certainly not a strength machine but that's what I'm aiming for. I wish I'd found this site 3years ago before embarking on yet another low cal diet, once again losing muscle along with fat.

OP wants to build some muscle on his shoulders as well as shedding fat - the best way to do that is WITH strength training in his routine which he is already doing.

If you're not already, you should consider doing the same instead of falling into the pitfalls that us oldies have over the years.

grantdumas7 · February 2014

Use one of these calculators to calculate your daily calorie goals
http://scoobysworkshop.com/accurate-calorie-calculator/

Choose a routine that focuses on the basics such as strong lifts, starting strength, All pros beginners or ICF 5x5.
What ever one you pick, stick with it for at least 6 months to 1 year. Don't get caught up in the belief that another workout is better because this person is doing it. You may also hear the term "muscle confusion" thrown around and people may suggest changing your routine every month or so. DON'T. Stick with the routine.

ianpagehall · February 2014

I have no idea what most of you have just said or suggested.. what my Macro.. pretend for a moment I am a IT geek I sit at a desk all day and have no idea what a girl looks like or what to do in a gym...

Right so I will take this as simply what I am doing and eating is clearly wrong which is no surprise..

Advice is a bit random and difficult to cut through, so I will talk to the nutritionist at the gym and the personal trainer.. or should I use external people?

Scooby said I need to have 2884 Calories per day

I will follow a simple Eating Healthy plan from Scooby.. which for me will be easy..

chrisrc131 · February 2014

You can talk to the people from your gym, but the quality of in-gym nutritionists and PTs ranges from the amazingly good to the shockingly bad. You probably don't know enough to judge very well what you'll be getting. If money were no object you could probably hire someone external and get solid advice, but you probably don't need to do that as a beginner. Even if the people at your gym are good, what they can accomplish in one consultation is going to be limited.

Is your diet okay? Giving us a list of what's 'typical' and getting feedback on it isn't very useful. You're here, use the system. Log everything that goes into your mouth as accurately as possible. Look at your fat/carb/protien levels. Look at your fiber intake. Look at how much sugar you're eating. Look at your iron/calcium/potassium levels. One day doesn't make or break the thing. Keep logging and keep looking at it over the course of a week or two. What are you getting too much of? What are you getting too little of? What is your total calorie level compared to your TDEE over the course of the day, the week? That's what you need to do.

And I'll second the advise to buy and read Starting Strength. Use the program in it. Or use Stronglifts, they aren't much different and they're both good beginner lifting programs. Cardio can help you burn calories and it's great for increasing your cardiac health, but if you want muscle you need to lift and rest your muscles.

ianpagehall · February 2014

OK I will keep this simple then and translate the advise to....

Report everything I eat on here... - thats kinda the point.
Read / investigate Stronglifts and Starting Strength
Eat Healthy as per Scooby
Consume around 2884 Calories, 252g Protein, 324g Carbs (Easier said than done)

Gym
Cardio is fine,
Freeweights is the only way...

FrnkLft · February 2014

All of this works exactly the same for men as for women. There is no such thing as a man workout or a woman workout, that's bull**** marketing.

Diet = Lose/Maintain/Gain Weight (be it Fat or Muscle)
Cardio = Most time efficient way to burn calories, Great for cardiovascular health and conditiong, Not *required* to burn fat
Heavy Lifting = Burns lots of calories, Builds strength, Builds or Maintains Muscle

Recipe for Toned Look = Lower Bodyfat %, Increase Muscle Mass, Mix to taste

Recipe for Ripped Look = Even Lower Bodyfat %, Increase Muscle Mass, Mix to taste

You can't spot reduce fat with exercise or diet, so where/when/how the fat comes off depends on your genetics. Usually first on means last off... is what it is. Keep lowering BF% until you're happy. You do this by eating a deficit of calories. If you screw up a day or a week or whatever, don't worry, just get back on it. No shame. You'll start looking better and getting compliments well short of reaching your actual goals anyway. Big plus. How noticable it is though depends on how much you have to loose.

Your body's natural shape is also determined by genetics, and unless it's fat that's giving you size, you're going to have trouble getting rid of it. Also, you cannot influence the shape of muscle, only size.

You have to eat a surplus of calories to put on any appreciable muscle, and some of the weight gain will be fat as well. And the whole process is slow.

So... don't worry about getting bulky, whether you're a man or a woman. Getting bulky is slow for men and even more difficult for women, so you'll know well in advance when you're approaching whatever aesthetic goal you're aiming for.

My book recommendation, and *I swear on my life* it will help you and is worth your time to read, is "New Rules of Lifting" (they have one geared a bit more towards women as well, although there's 0% difference in the way this works for either sex). The program at the very end of the book is kinda "fluffy" lol, but it's perfectly fine to use if you like it. If not...

An excellent starting program is Stronglifts 5x5, doesn't matter if you're a man or a woman. Uses the five main, fundamental compound movements to build strength, and it's a simple workout that hits nearly every muscle in your body. Do that for a while to start, and then use "ICF 5x5" to up the volume a bit and keep the "5x5" compound lifts for strength (just review the programs and you'll see what I mean).

grantdumas7 · February 2014

Learn to execute the lifts safely and effectively. Watch youtube videos of different lifts or this another good site that shows the proper lifting techniques of different exercises and the muscles they work: http://www.exrx.net/Exercise.html

Ease into the workout. If the sets and reps are 5x5, don't do 5reps for 5 sets the first workout. Do 1 or 2 sets of 5 after you do a few warmup sets. Warmup sets shouldn't wear you out and this is where some people make the mistake. For example say you can lift 50 kg 5 times. Your warmup sets could look like this: 25kg x10, 35 kgx5, 45kgx2-3 and then go into your working set(s).

Huffdogg · February 2014

@3laine75. Not sure what you mean. Way to offer no explanation. But I'm sure you are a strength machine, being a 38 y/o female.

However I am a 22 y/o male who used to be fat and weak, and I am working hard to change that. Smaller + Muscular > Fat + Muscular. The muscle will hide under layers. If you want to see a casual arm bulge all the time and look strong, you need to shed some exterior fat too.

I'm sure that she called you out on your fail advice because anyone who wants to look better after weight loss should start lifting weights immediately in order to preserve lean mass whilst dieting. Advising cardio exclusively with an extremely low net calorie intake for aesthetics is pure foolishness.

ianpagehall · February 2014

So I started Strong Lifts 5X5 last night, no real weight as I don't understand the form yet and the gym was packed for 20kg had to do.

My legs ache and I wobbled here and there but I think I understand the concept, I will investigate set B tonight again without weight just to see the form.

I filled in all my food data, changed some goals, ordered some protein from Amazon.

So thank you all for advise and I am kinda excited to see what I can achieve. Just remember its all your fault

TavistockToad · February 2014

So I started Strong Lifts 5X5 last night, no real weight as I don't understand the form yet and the gym was packed for 20kg had to do.

My legs ache and I wobbled here and there but I think I understand the concept, I will investigate set B tonight again without weight just to see the form.

I filled in all my food data, changed some goals, ordered some protein from Amazon.

So thank you all for advise and I am kinda excited to see what I can achieve. Just remember its all your fault

sounds like a good start!

chrisrc131 · February 2014

Good start! Definitely go back and watch some of those form videos as you gain experience with doing the movements yourself. Record yourself to compare if you can.

One thing I noticed reading your note about the goals scooby's calculator gave you... 252g Protein is a *lot*. The formula has to divide the calories up some way, but you probably don't actually need that much protein. I'm not saying that taking the supplement you ordered is a bad idea, just don't go wolfing it down to hit that number. Typically, you see a recommendation of 1g per lb of Lean Body Mass - which is probably higher than necessary itself, but at least it's simple to figure. So, calculate what you'd weigh at 0% bodyfat and even 1g/lb is probably more than you need. Getting more isn't likely to cause you harm within reasonable levels, but it isn't going to do you much good either, especially considering how costly it can get.

Some synthesis of research on that: http://bayesianbodybuilding.com/the-myth-of-1glb-optimal-protein-intake-for-bodybuilders/

FrnkLft · February 2014

All of this works exactly the same for men as for women. There is no such thing as a man workout or a woman workout, that's bull**** marketing.

Diet = Lose/Maintain/Gain Weight (be it Fat or Muscle)
Cardio = Most time efficient way to burn calories, Great for cardiovascular health and conditiong, Not *required* to burn fat
Heavy Lifting = Burns lots of calories, Builds strength, Builds or Maintains Muscle

Recipe for Toned Look = Lower Bodyfat %, Increase Muscle Mass, Mix to taste

Recipe for Ripped Look = Even Lower Bodyfat %, Increase Muscle Mass, Mix to taste

You can't spot reduce fat with exercise or diet, so where/when/how the fat comes off depends on your genetics. Usually first on means last off... is what it is. Keep lowering BF% until you're happy. You do this by eating a deficit of calories. If you screw up a day or a week or whatever, don't worry, just get back on it. No shame. You'll start looking better and getting compliments well short of reaching your actual goals anyway. Big plus. How noticable it is though depends on how much you have to loose.

Your body's natural shape is also determined by genetics, and unless it's fat that's giving you size, you're going to have trouble getting rid of it. Also, you cannot influence the shape of muscle, only size.

You have to eat a surplus of calories to put on any appreciable muscle, and some of the weight gain will be fat as well. And the whole process is slow.

So... don't worry about getting bulky, whether you're a man or a woman. Getting bulky is slow for men and for women, so you'll know well in advance when you're approaching whatever aesthetic goal you're aiming for.

Also, soreness has nothing to do with the amount of work you've done. It goes away with time, as your body adapts, and adaptation is your goal.

My book recommendation, and *I swear on my life* it will help you and is worth your time to read, is "New Rules of Lifting" (they have one geared a bit more towards women as well, although there's 0% difference in the way this works for either sex). The program at the very end of the book is kinda "fluffy" lol, but it's perfectly fine to use if you like it. If not...

An excellent starting program is Stronglifts 5x5, doesn't matter if you're a man or a woman. Uses the five main, fundamental compound movements to build strength, and it's a simple workout that hits nearly every muscle in your body. Do that for a while to start, and then use "ICF 5x5" to up the volume a bit and keep the "5x5" compound lifts for strength (just review the programs and you'll see what I mean).

39 Male, No idea how to bulk up or the Diet rules

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